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Author Topic: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE  (Read 4439 times)

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Offline CestMoiJeanneMarie

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Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2019, 05:03:57 PM »
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  • What I don't understand in all this is why the two (or three if you count TIA) organizations are vying for narrative control and influence when:

    a) they aren't the Prelado and
    b) they aren't the Franciscans destined to take charge

    We already know what it will take to restore the convent and (at least in part) the rest of the Catholic world. I would agree with some of the elements with Atila's concern about SSPX overreaching in this matter, whether it be Bp. Fellay or Bp. Williamson-aligned. The SSPX has always been about preserving the Mass first and foremost and in this tragic period we find ourselves in, but I can see how something like this could just as easily cause more problems than it tries to solve. I certainly don't believe they've made a convincing case against using "Good Success" in English... and I don't believe that title is in any real danger of being superseded, which brings me to the next point.

    It was never established by Our Lady that her title ever needed to be translated perfectly into English or that the overall message really hinged upon it.. By all accounts "suceso" and "success" have always required an asterisk between translations precisely because they do not hold the same meaning in common usage. Even Atila was compelled to explain how the local usage of "suceso" eventually fell more in line with "success" over a period of time. It's not an obvious match at any rate and it certainly isn't beyond the realm of debate. When you factor in how English had yet to be standardized or become the lingua franca of the western world as it would later become, it's even less clear. To tear into a laywoman's reputation over something so tenuous is completely unnecessary in my view. None of the parties involved have the power to effect the change needed to correct the sad state of affairs at the convent. Perhaps he'd be better off contemplating where on earth this group of Franciscans (Minims?) will come from!
    Croixalist, interesting that you seem so certain on who the Prelado is and who isn't. Are you in fact an authority on Mother Mariana's prophecies? What makes you so certain about what you're saying? Your pretending to know about future events (without even offering a smidgen of evidence) speaks of an unbelievable presumption and arrogance. At the very least, TIA offers a compelling argument based on reason and facts on who they believe the prelado is not - I suggest you read it here: https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/F045_Lefevbre.html.

    Perhaps TIA is getting involved in all of this because of their long history with Our Lady of Good Success. In fact, as they mentioned in one of their other articles, TIA was probably one of the first (if not, the first) to promote Our Lady of Good Success in English, with their first book coming out in 1999. It is thanks to their books that people like you are even aware of her, and thanks to their books that SSPX is now attempting to steal the banner (as they have done in the past - see TIA's article, under "Antecedents of the change": https://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/230bev03_25_2019.htm).) Since the SSPX couldn't gain control of Our Lady of Good Success, they came with many different tricks to try to sabotage it - typical. It seems to me that TIA is merely defending themselves against unjust attacks from the SSPX.

    Now about the name of OLGS - do you mean to tell us that you take the word of Fr. Purdy over TIA, a reputable and scholarly organization who has worked to unmask the Progressivist infiltration in the Church for almost 20 years with countless scholarly works? Let's take a look at Fr. Purdy's qualifications, shall we? They are as follows:

    • Priest
    • Member of SSPX
    These are the only two qualifications that I can see in Fr. Purdy. Further, for someone who is presenting himself as an authority on Spanish translation, you would think he would at least know Spanish, right? Wrong.

    Fr. Purdy not only has zero scholarly credentials, but he also does not speak Spanish, yet he has no problem peddling a supposedly "better" translation of Our Lady of Good Success. What kind of person would accept the word of an unqualified (and fraudulent) non-scholar over TIA in a matter of translation and doctrine? Given the facts and the long history of TIA's promotion of Our Lady of Good Success, only an unreasonable person would.

    And excuse me, but your whole "crisis begins and ends with the clergy" nonsense smells like another cover-up. This just another excuse to prevent laypeople from seeing the actual crisis and fighting it as they should. More of the same "pay, pray, obey", right? The Crusaders were not clergymen, yet it was because of the Crusaders (who could shed bled, whereas the clergy cannot) that Islam was extirpated from Europe. St. Catherine was a layperson, and she reprimanded the clergy (even Popes) for abuses, and as such she had a great influence on Christendom. The Cristeros in Mexico were not priests, yet it was because of their resistance and defense of the Church that the Cristero War came to an end, effectively allowing the faithful to practice their faith in public again.

    Your idea that we should leave it to the clergy to fix the crisis gives me a hint that you must be a priest (or soon to become one). What arrogance to treat yourselves as if you are semi-gods! What arrogance to tell us laypeople that we should just sit back and let the already-mostly-compromised clergy fix everything while we watch the Church burning down in flames! Think of Rahner, de Lubac, von Balthasar, and all the other Progressivist theologians. Want to know what they all have in common? They were priests. So yes, please continue to tell us that the clergy will fix everything... meanwhile we're just supposed to sit back and give all our money to SSPX, right? Shame on you.

    Online Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #16 on: May 29, 2019, 07:12:14 PM »
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  • Atila Guimaraes, Marian Horvat and other holy people at TIA are merely trying to defend the convent of Quito, and Our Lady of Good Success against lesser minds and compromised principles.  



    Presenting the politburo of "Lessor minds and compromised principles".
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #17 on: May 29, 2019, 07:30:04 PM »
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  • Croixalist, interesting that you seem so certain on who the Prelado is and who isn't. Are you in fact an authority on Mother Mariana's prophecies? What makes you so certain about what you're saying? Your pretending to know about future events (without even offering a smidgen of evidence) speaks of an unbelievable presumption and arrogance. At the very least, TIA offers a compelling argument based on reason and facts on who they believe the prelado is not - I suggest you read it here: https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/F045_Lefevbre.html.

    Perhaps TIA is getting involved in all of this because of their long history with Our Lady of Good Success. In fact, as they mentioned in one of their other articles, TIA was probably one of the first (if not, the first) to promote Our Lady of Good Success in English, with their first book coming out in 1999. It is thanks to their books that people like you are even aware of her, and thanks to their books that SSPX is now attempting to steal the banner (as they have done in the past - see TIA's article, under "Antecedents of the change": https://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/230bev03_25_2019.htm).) Since the SSPX couldn't gain control of Our Lady of Good Success, they came with many different tricks to try to sabotage it - typical. It seems to me that TIA is merely defending themselves against unjust attacks from the SSPX.

    Now about the name of OLGS - do you mean to tell us that you take the word of Fr. Purdy over TIA, a reputable and scholarly organization who has worked to unmask the Progressivist infiltration in the Church for almost 20 years with countless scholarly works? Let's take a look at Fr. Purdy's qualifications, shall we? They are as follows:


    • Priest
    • Member of SSPX
    These are the only two qualifications that I can see in Fr. Purdy. Further, for someone who is presenting himself as an authority on Spanish translation, you would think he would at least know Spanish, right? Wrong.

    Fr. Purdy not only has zero scholarly credentials, but he also does not speak Spanish, yet he has no problem peddling a supposedly "better" translation of Our Lady of Good Success. What kind of person would accept the word of an unqualified (and fraudulent) non-scholar over TIA in a matter of translation and doctrine? Given the facts and the long history of TIA's promotion of Our Lady of Good Success, only an unreasonable person would.

    And excuse me, but your whole "crisis begins and ends with the clergy" nonsense smells like another cover-up. This just another excuse to prevent laypeople from seeing the actual crisis and fighting it as they should. More of the same "pay, pray, obey", right? The Crusaders were not clergymen, yet it was because of the Crusaders (who could shed bled, whereas the clergy cannot) that Islam was extirpated from Europe. St. Catherine was a layperson, and she reprimanded the clergy (even Popes) for abuses, and as such she had a great influence on Christendom. The Cristeros in Mexico were not priests, yet it was because of their resistance and defense of the Church that the Cristero War came to an end, effectively allowing the faithful to practice their faith in public again.

    Your idea that we should leave it to the clergy to fix the crisis gives me a hint that you must be a priest (or soon to become one). What arrogance to treat yourselves as if you are semi-gods! What arrogance to tell us laypeople that we should just sit back and let the already-mostly-compromised clergy fix everything while we watch the Church burning down in flames! Think of Rahner, de Lubac, von Balthasar, and all the other Progressivist theologians. Want to know what they all have in common? They were priests. So yes, please continue to tell us that the clergy will fix everything... meanwhile we're just supposed to sit back and give all our money to SSPX, right? Shame on you.


    Let me try to be more succinct. I don't believe either side quite has the right idea with getting too involved with the convent. I do not agree with the attempt to stifle the "Good Success" portion of Our Lady's English title. I'm not a fan of what Jade is trying to accomplish there, but as I said before I think it's too late to try to change what has already been established for over 20 years.  Nothing the SSPX can do will replace the hard work Dr. Marian Horvat in particular has done to translate the visions and spread the word throughout the English-speaking world. But the bigger point is, does "Buen Suceso" take anything substantial away from the rest of the writings? Not for any intelligent person who actually reads the material! Disagree with me all you want, I just don't see it as anything more than a petty squabble which can only serve as a distraction from the actual content of the visions. Ms. Liboro need not reinvent the wheel, but I also don't see a need to urgently warn people about square tires: it's an idea that isn't going anywhere.

    As for Atila's indignation at the SSPX's alleged targeting of an organization vastly more compromising than itself, so much so that it cut off Atila for writing one critical book about VII, just doesn't make any sense to me. No one was attacking TIA in Quito this year, it was all centered on the TFP! What's kind of funny to me is that if his information is correct, he's already infiltrated the convent himself through his own contacts. So who is he an agent for? What's with his strangely selective criticism of the SSPX and why is he the only one talking on behalf of the TFP? I hope you can see where my issue lies.   

    The only thing I'm presuming right now is that neither Atila, Fr. Purdy, nor Archbishop Travez appear to be the Prelado. I suppose it's possible to explain Mr. Guimaraes' or Fr. Purdy's actions if they were thinking along those lines for themselves, but I doubt it. I grant you the slim possibility that Atila could be. Of course Archbishop LeFebvre famously speculated he might have been the one, but of course he wasn't... he never asked a Holy Pope to restore the Franciscan rule, not that there was a Holy Pope available at the time to do that anyway. I am certain this Prelado will be accompanied by some divine intervention, it's hard for me to see any other way around it. All things considered though, I'm pretty sure the Prelado will have a little more to work with than anonymous sources, contradictory motivations and ethically-challenged journalism.   

    I don't want whispers, I don't want rumors and I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way. Someone needs to come forward. This is all second hand information. Miracles need to be openly scrutinized! The more Atila insists we take his word for it that somebody else observed both statues were too heavy to move, the more I want to question it. So many parts of this story aren't fully developed or researched. If it was that easy to prove a miracle, we'd have a slew  of sainted Medjugorje "visionaries" in every parish! He must be held to a higher standard on this.  It's one thing to have a hunch that something is going wrong, it's another thing to pretend that all you need to prove it is your good name and a few nameless sources. But even then he'd have a hard time explaining how the SSPX is more compromised than the TFP. 

    Maybe you guys can help me with that. 

    As for the Crisis being clergy centered, I mean that it will only be resolved from the top in miraculous fashion. There is no mention of a grassroots movement in the prophecies, or anywhere else really. The only figure who could possibly be associated with the laity in Mother Marianna's account of restoration is the Prelado. However, a "Prelate" usually indicates religious authority rather than secular but even then, Protestants are the ones who mistakenly look for some kind of collective "People of God" revivalism to save the day, not traditional Catholics.

    And lady, this is the Great Crisis. Everybody is compromised to some degree! If the priesthood is compromised, so are we. If the priesthood is going to be restored, we layfolk will have to put away the lesser instincts of our Latchkey Catholic existence and try to learn to trust the Church again. Speaking for myself, it won't be easy, but it will be worth it.
    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline chrstnoel1

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #18 on: May 30, 2019, 02:20:18 AM »
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  • Presenting the politburo of "Lessor minds and compromised principles".

    Presenting the politburo of "Lessor minds and compromised principles". :heretic:

    You got that right Incred ! 
    "It is impious to say, 'I respect every religion.' This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven."
    Fr. Michael Muller, The Church and Her Enemies

    Offline Cera

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #19 on: May 31, 2019, 05:38:15 PM »
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  • If the SSPX feels Atila can/will be in their way, it figures they would go after him.  I have admired Prof. Plinio, especially after reading that, when at Vat. II with Bishop Castro Meyer and Arch. Sigaud (?), and realizing what was happening there, he urged them to both walk to the front of the Council and face those offending progressive prelates - accusing them of treachery to the Church with the machinations they were pulling off.  What a show stopper that would have been!  But the Bishops would not go along with his inspiration.  Too bad. Wonder what would have happened if they had.    
    And you read this where?
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    Offline Merry

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #20 on: June 01, 2019, 12:18:42 PM »
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  • https://www.traditioninaction.org/Collection/Bios/E001_Bio_SDP.html


    Found under the fourth picture ----



     As the first session came to its end, Prof. Plinio realized that the progressivists were in complete control and suggested that the two Brazilian Bishops unmask their maneuvers. He proposed that they solemnly walk from the door of St. Peter’s Basilica to the main table in the conciliar hall, passing by the 2,300 Bishops assembled there. Then, before the whole assembly, they should expose the progressivist agenda for the Council and state that they were leaving in protest. Outside the doors, journalists would be waiting to interview them and spread the news. This dramatic rupture was meant to abort the entire spectacle of Vatican II. Unfortunately, the Bishops did not follow his advice. 
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline Cera

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #21 on: June 01, 2019, 05:26:06 PM »
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  • https://www.traditioninaction.org/Collection/Bios/E001_Bio_SDP.html


    Found under the fourth picture ----

    Your source is Atila? -- a Plinio- worshiper who laid on the floor with Plinio's foot on his neck, took a slave name as a slave to Plinio, prayer a mockery of the Ave Maria, NOT to Our Lady but to Plinio?
    That would be funny if it were not tragic.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #22 on: June 01, 2019, 05:59:34 PM »
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  • Details on Plinio slave Atila Marcio (scroll down to slave # 11)

    Filipe de Freitas Guimarães Ablas, RG

    Heralds of the Gospel was founded by Plinio slave, João Clá Dias Scognamiglio after the death of the cult leader.

    The following declaration was registered at the Public Archives (August 24, 1984) and published on March 14 1985 in the newspaper La Folha de Manha.


    Quote

    I, the undersigned, Filipe de Freitas Guimarães Ablas, RG (General Registry) 3706587, SP, marital status - unmarried, living in Curitiba (Brazil), Manoel C. so Ribas, No 418, swear to be true that when I belonged to the TFP, Brazilian Society for the Defense of Tradition, Family and Property, in 1967 I entered into a secret society of that association, known as "Sacred Slavery" [Sempre Viva], also known by its members as "Still Living".

    The members of this secret society have made a consecration of themselves as slaves of Dr Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira in the same sense in which St. Louis de Montfort Grignion recommended it be done for the Madonna. For this consecration, as a slave to Dr. Plinio, was used the same text drawn up by St. Louis for the consecration to Our Lady, with some adaptation. We proceeded in this manner because Dr. Plinio was considered to have the same spirit as the Madonna, because his spirit was one with the Wisdom and Immaculate Heart of Mary. The members of that society prayed every day using the following prayer of "Sacred Slavery", composed by Dr. Plinio himself:

    "Immaculate Heart of Mary and Wisdom, in the atmosphere of our days when all men are free, are drunk on freedom, I offer myself to you, a slave, to be like the last of the men referred to by My Lord [Plinio]. I offer myself in the atmosphere of these days in which everything speaks of naturalism, so that my life is entirely supernatural.

    I am not the one who is alive but it is My Lord [Plinio] that lives in me. From him everything comes to me, his spirit is living in me, and I can imitate in this union of  slavery, everything that he is. In the climate of our days, without greatness, without horizons, given over to optimism and mediocrity, time will bring great events to us, with great horizons, in which I will have to live as a hero of the same magnitude as My Lord [Plinio]. Looking inside myself and seeing a lot of smallness, I know that faith requires me to imitate My Lord [Plinio], and I will make of myself a perfect Apostle of the Last Times, according to the prophetic prayer of St. Louis de Montfort Grignion. In all this I ask My Lord [Plinio] to help my unbelief. "

    Prayers were also recited to him [Plinio], as a parody of the Ave Maria, which incorporate the prophecies of St. Louis, St. Elias and himself:

    "Hail, Luigi Plinio Elia (official name of Plinio in the Holy Slavery), full of love and hate, the Blessed Virgin is with you. You are blessed among the faithful, and the fruit of your love and your hatred, which is the counterrevolution, is blessed. Oh holy Luigi Plinio Elia, father and admirable leader of counterrevolution and the Kingdom of Mary, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen. "

    Also recited was the rosary using the adapted 'Ave Maria'. Even the meetings began with the same 'Ave Maria', the official prayer of the Holy Slavery and with the ejaculation: "Hail, Luigi Pliny Elia, father and admirable leader of counterrevolution and the Kingdom of Mary! Hail, Luigi Pliny Elia, the faithful slave, Immaculate Heart of Wisdom and Mary!" There was also a Litany for him, the 'Doctor', and they said that the prayers had been composed by Marcos Ribeiro Dantas (slave Plinio Paul).

    In one of these ejaculatory prayers to Dr. Plinio it was prayed: "The forerunner of Elijah, pray for us!"

    Dr. Plinio imparted the blessing to his slaves. Sometimes, when they received it, they were stretched out on the floor, face upwards, and then Dr. Plinio laid his right foot on the face and gave his blessing, saying: "Benedictio Matris et Mediatricis descendat super vos et semper maneat ".

    The slaves of Dr. Plinio had the habit of confessing to him, confessing their failings and even their sins. After the accusation, if the slave asked for a penance, Dr Plinio had the habit of giving three slaps to the face of the slave. Following this, he would impart the blessing.

    The entry into "Sempre Vivente" took place by means of a ceremony that lasted several hours, in Via Alagoas, on the second floor of the house, and sometimes in other places.

    Dr. Plinio sat on a small throne with the habit and the mantle of the Third Order. The assistants used a habit without the mantle. The person who was about to be introduced to that company relaxed, as if dead, prostrate upon the ground in front of Dr. Plinio. At this point, from Dr. Plinio, was received the order to stand up to receive a new life and he [Plinio] intoned: "Exsurge." This meant that the person had died and was born a new man, a slave of the prophet, an Apostle of the Last Times.

    The person then fulfilled his consecration as a slave and delivered his whole being, material and spiritual, to Dr. Plinio. Symbolic objects were used. Dr. Plinio acquired an absolute right, as with the old slave of the Roman Law, except for the right to life and death. That is why they call it "Dominus Plinius."

    The ceremony continued with the feet and hands of the Prophet [Plinio] being kissed by the slave. Then, Dr. Plinio left the throne and there sat his new slave, since he was a new Plinio. Dr. Plinio kissed the feet and hands of his new slave.

    So, the effect was of a transforming union that took place between them; one living in the other. The slave was a new Plinio. For this reason was adopted the name of Plinio composed with that of another, of a patron and a title of Our Lady. For example, I chose to become Plinio Bernardo Dimas Longinos of Our Lady, Queen of the Holy Apostles of the Last Times. I was known as Plinio Dimas.

    We could not communicate with other members of TFP the existence of "Sacred Slavery," because - of course - of the nature of this secret society.

    The twelve first slaves were:

    1) Caio Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - Plinio Mário.
    2) Eduardo Barros Brotero - Plinio Eduardo.
    3) Luiz Nazareno of Assunpção Filho - Plinio Luiz.
    4) João Clá Dias Scognamiglio - Plinio Fernando.
    5) Humberto Braccesi - Plinio Cirineu.
    6) Fernando Siqueira - Plinio Bernardo.
    7) Carlos Espírito Hofmeister Poly - Plinio Jose.
    Marcos Ribeiro Dantes - Plinio Paulo.
    9) Mário Navarro da Costa - Plinio Elias.
    10) Dom Bertrand de Orleans e Bragança - Plinio Miguel.
    11) Atila Sinke Guimarães - Plinio Márcio.
    12) Becca Cosme Varella Hijo - Plinio Lázaro.

    Over time other people entered the "Still Living". They are:

    13) Plinio Vidigal Xavier da Silveira - Plinio Elizeu.
    14) Paulo Corrêa de Brito Filho - Plinio Jeremias.
    15) Luiz Filipe Ablas - Plinio Dimas.
    16) "X" - Plinio Inácio.
    17) Dom Luiz de Orleans e Bragança - Plinio da Cruz.
    18) Marcelino Antônio Pereira de Almeida - Plinio Francisco.
    19) Edson Neves da Silva - Plinio Batista.
    20) Fernando Antunes Aldunate - Plinio Longinos.
    21) Leo Nino Doscolo Daniele - Plinio Tobias.
    22) Fernando Furquin de Almeida Filho - Plinio Amen.
    23) Martim Afonso Xavier da Silveira Jr. - Plinio Pedro.
    24) Sergio Bidueira - Plinio Hildebrando.
    25) Jose Lucio de Araújo Correia - Plinio Ezquiel.
    26) Julio Ubeold - Plinio Tomaz.
    27) Fernado Teles - Plinio Leofredo.
    28) Roberto Guerreiro - Plinio Agostinho.
    29) Afonso Becar Verella - Plinio Ambros.
    30) Miguel Becar Verella - Plinio Domingos.
    31) Carlos Viano - Plinio Godofredo.
    32) The Argentine, Escurra - Plinio Leon.
    33) Carlos Antunez Aldunate - Plinio Emanuel.
    34) Jaime Antunez Aldunate - Plinio Gregório.
    35) Gonzalo Larrain - slave Plinio Caetano.
    36) Patricio Larrain - Plinio João.
    37) Patrício Amunategui - Plinio Santiago.
    38) Casté  - Plinio Joaquim.
    39) Pedro Paulo Figueiredo - Plinio Jacó.
    40) Carlos Alberto Soares Correia - Plinio Athens.
    41) Aloisio Torres - Plinio Macabeu.
    42) Roberto Esper Kalás - Plinio Bento.
    43) Paulo Roberto Rosa - Plinio Tiago.
    44) Paulo Cesar Nascimento - Plinio Henoch.
    45) Lúcio Montes - Plinio Estevão.
    46) "Y" - Plinio Afonso.
    47) João Carlos Leal da Costa - Plinio Matatias.
    48) Francisco Xavier Tosto - Plinio Isaias.
    49) José Antônio Tosto - Plinio Sebastian.
    50) "Z" - Plinio Clovis.
    51) Guerreiro Dantas - Plinio Davi.
    52) Rivoira - Plinio Hermenegildo.
    53) Alejandro Bravo - Plinio Samuel.
    54) Carlos Ybarguren - Plinio Antonio.
    55) Nelsie Fragelli - Plinio Tomé.
    56) Fernado Larrain - Plinio ?.

    There were others who, at the time, were not received in "Still Life", but were still slaves of Dr. Plinio. For example: Antonio Candido Lara Ducci - slave Ducci and Carlos Eduardo Schafer - slave Schafer.

    Speaking of his power and his slaves, Dr. Plinio asked: "What is the power of the pope in comparison to everything?"

    It was said amongst the slaves that the "Secret of Mary", of St. Louis de Montfort, is probably the establishment of the "Sacred Slavery" in respect to Dr Plinio.

    Dr. Plinio was then designated by the nickname of "Mary", because the slave of Mary was the slave of Plinio.

    The slaves used to ask for the granting of petitions, kneeling in front of Dr. Plinio. For example, Cosme Becca Varella Hijo, in his consecration, urged "My Lord" the grace to become a widower.

    I would also like to declare that I, myself, was consecrated to the son of Dona Lucilia [mother of Plinio], kneeling on her grave, in the presence of Dr Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira and his personal guards.


    Curitiba, 24 August 1984
    Luiz Filipe de Freitas Guimaraes Abias


    Witnesses to the deposition:
    Orlando Fedeli 1,433,401, RG
    Giulio Folen 2,481,149, RG.

    Cartorio Ramos, Second Office of Civil Status Registration, Securities and Docuмents, Via Mal. Floriano Peixoto, 986 - Tel.224-2444.

    Statement made on this day. Written and recorded on microfilm (No. 544948). File Number: 330009.







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    Online Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #23 on: June 01, 2019, 07:05:41 PM »
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  • Prof Cera and Megster, Cathinfo trolls and "slaves" of Fr. Purdy and the fake traditionalist cult known as the neoSSPX.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Merry

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #24 on: June 01, 2019, 07:32:34 PM »
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  • Cera - Find me a source who can state that that Council "almost" incident never happened.
    If any one saith that true and natural water is not of necessity for baptism, and on that account wrests to some sort of metaphor those words of Our Lord Jesus Christ, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost...,"  Let Him Be Anathama.  -COUNCIL OF TRENT Sess VII Canon II “On Baptism"

    Offline Cera

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #25 on: June 07, 2019, 06:59:32 PM »
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  • Prof Cera and Megster, Cathinfo trolls and "slaves" of Fr. Purdy and the fake traditionalist cult known as the neoSSPX.


    You inadvertently discredit yourself. Name-calling those with whom you disagree and blatant lying belittles all else you have to say. I continue to pray for you and other members of this sad cult labeled by Bishop Mayer as "an anti-Catholic, anti-clerical, heretical sect."
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Online Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #26 on: June 08, 2019, 10:01:19 AM »
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  • Prof. Cera,

    Thank you for your prayers.

    With Pentecost upon us, you should pray for wisdom and contrition for your incessant work of calumnies.


    You function as a "one trick Pony", without intellectual comprehension, only spewing calumnies against Dr. Plineo and Atila.

    But your side-kick Meg is a "two trick Pony". 

    She feigns comprehension of Catholic Resistance, while doing her best to undermine critics of the SSPX.



    Bottom-line, your both slaves in the circus known as the neoSSPX.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Meg

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #27 on: June 08, 2019, 11:26:21 AM »
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  • You inadvertently discredit yourself. Name-calling those with whom you disagree and blatant lying belittles all else you have to say. I continue to pray for you and other members of this sad cult labeled by Bishop Mayer as "an anti-Catholic, anti-clerical, heretical sect."

    Bp. Mayer was always faithful to Tradition, and he was excommunicated for his part in the consecration of the Four Bishops. He never tried to reconcile with Rome. He was sincere, and that's why his assessment of TFP is credible. And he had first-hand dealings with them.

    It seems that the threads promoting TFP/TIA/Guimaraes/Plinio don't get a lot of support, fortunately. I think that this is due to your efforts, and also the lack of maturity in the responses of the followers of TFP/TIA show that they are irresponsible.

    Also, it's a problem that TIA in particular has always had issues with Archbishop Lefebvre. They pretend that they loathe the SSPX due to the new direction of the SSPX, but really, they've always loathed the SSPX, even when +ABL was alive.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Cera

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #28 on: June 08, 2019, 01:41:32 PM »
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  • Cera - Find me a source who can state that that Council "almost" incident never happened.
    The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim that a certain event (that makes Plinio look like a hero) actually occurred.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Cera

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    Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE
    « Reply #29 on: June 08, 2019, 01:43:38 PM »
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  • Bottom-line, your both slaves in the circus known as the neoSSPX.
    Please use correct grammar in your lame attempts to attack me.
    The word "your" should have been "you're".
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary