Author Topic: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE (Read 4434 times)

Incredulous · « **on:** May 25, 2019, 02:36:32 PM »

To: Fr. Wegner, Fr. Purdy and your assortment of trad-groupies:

While you may think the SSPX is "on top" and growing in power, the noose is actually tightening around your necks.

For not only are you confronting a premier Catholic scholar who has dedicated his life to Holy Mother Church,
you're attempting to undermine Our Lady of Good Success.

In this effort, you will surely fail.

SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Atila Sinke Guimarães Link

After publishing my articles that reported the role played by the SSPX in Quito (here, here, here and here) I received three types of reaction: indignation, silence and a hysterical campaign of sordid attacks on the Internet.

Initial indignation

Our Lady of Good Success in Quito, 2019

My first article described how I found the Statue of Our Lady during my visit in February. Two priests exploded against me, commanding me to publicly apologize for spreading the “grave calumny” that Arch. Travez had received money from the SSPX.

What proof did they give for affirming I had made a calumny? None, because they deemed the virtue of Arch. Travez to be above suspicion. Then, they repeated, also without proof, the trash bin of offenses they had heard about me, Dr. Plinio and the TFP in order to frighten away any possible support I could have.

Silence of priests & directors

After my second article showing that Travez was, at the least, covering for the pedophilia of Fr. Bustos – who had being flagrantly caught touching intimate parts of a 14-year-old girl and was subsequently almost lynched by the local population – and for the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity rampant in the Franciscans, I was met with complete silence.

The young priests were ordered to shut up and the superiors did not respond. I wonder why the SSPX superiors would not state this simple phrase: “No, the SSPX did not give any money to Arch. Travez.” In juridical language there is a wise aphorism: Qui tacet consentire videtur – The one who remains silent appears to consent to the accusation.

Furious reactions on the internet

Then, I wrote two other articles: One exposing Agent Liboro and other proving that the docuмent pretending to establish indisputably that the title of Good Success in English should be changed to Buen Suceso had such fundamental errors that they invalidate the docuмent. And also that Fr. Adam Purdy, the most dynamic promoter of the name change was not capable of discerning which translation from Spanish to English is better because he does not know Spanish.

After that article, the silence of the priests and directors continued.

Cyber-hounds that bark on the command of the SSPX

What they did, however, was to release dogs to attack me, that annoying intruder who had dared enter their recently-purchased property, the Convent of Quito.

Indeed, several SSPX seminarians and a few anonymous women on the Internet increased their noisy barking: “Dr. Plinio was a tyrant, Atila was his vile slave, TFP was a cult, a sect that among many other things adored his mother and prayed a litany to her in which the name of Our Lady was ‘blasphemously’ replaced by hers, etc. etc.”

I smiled, because I recognized the exact same sordid offenses that had been spilled against those counter-revolutionaries 35 years ago, defamations that had been duly refuted publicly.

Some friends entered the forums where the women assailants were most vociferous and tried to reason with them, but my friends were not successful. The hateful female hysteria did not allow them to even consider any argument that might conflict with their total and unquestioning support for the SSPX, its priests and its directors.

Those same offenses had been spread by Agent Liboro among the nuns of the Convent of Immaculate Conception in Quito to poison them against Dr. Plinio and his followers.

I decided to put to rest this spurious SSPX “response” by posting online in English the books refuting those grubby attacks. The first one, Servitudo ex Caritate, which addresses the question of Holy Slavery, is already online. The second, which refutes a nebula of miscellaneous slanders, will be posted as soon as we at TIA finish putting it in a format compatible to the Internet.

I will end this series with two articles: the first and present article reports a portion of what I know about the action of the SSPX Agent inside that Convent; the second will explain why the followers of Prof. Plinio were present there.

Liboro’s & La Capitana’s pestilential action

Since around 2014 Jade Liboro has been living up to six months a year inside the Convent as an intern, as I stated in another article, installed with the approval of either Arch. Travez or the Apostolic Nuncio Otonello.

The honest & chaste Arch. Travez at a farewell banquet

Once inside, Liboro joined forces with a nun who has an important position, exerts a bad influence there and was always against both Prof. Plinio and his followers. I know perfectly who this nun is and could write a small book about her nefarious action, but here I will call her just la Capitana, the Captain.

The two instinctively or explicitly agreed to try to set the Convent against Prof. Plinio: La Capitana, by flattering the new Abbess as well as the old one; the Agent, by buying the sympathy of the young nuns with gifts of money “to help their families.”

While she spread these cash gifts, Liboro also circulated the same list of offenses habitually made by the SSPX: “Prof. Plinio is a monster, his followers are a cult, a sect that prevents young men from entering the seminary, etc.” In Quito, Liboro hypocritically added another: “They are against the Mass,” since these Catholics avoid attending the New Mass as much as possible.

Besides speaking against these counter-revolutionaries, the two cohorts had also the goal to change the juridical status of the Convent.

Changing the juridical status

At times in the past Arch. Travez has tried to expel the followers of Prof. Plinio from the Convent. Twice or three times he visited the Abbess personally; other times he sent his Auxiliary Bishop to try to oblige her to do so. The constant answer of the Superior was: “Your Excellency, we are not Diocesan nuns; therefore, we decide by ourselves what we should do in our Convent.”

The Statue over the Abbess chair in the upper choir

Indeed, although each religious order is obliged to obey the Archbishop in his external policies and, thus, not project a public imagine of discord, inside each religious order the Superior has the last word on what is or is not convenient to do.

So, since most of the nuns were favorable to the followers of Prof. Plinio, to forbid their action inside the Convent it was necessary to change the juridical status of the Convent so that the Archbishop would be in charge of its internal affairs.

For this purpose the task La Capitana was particularly important. She used the fact that Travez was a Franciscan as an argument with the Abbess that this was an opportunity for the Conceptionists to return to their old relationship with the Franciscans by giving Travez external and internal power. So, with the permission of the Abbess and on her behalf, La Capitana convened a general meeting of all the nuns to decide on the matter.

The meeting, duly manipulated by La Capitana and with the ground irrigated by the Agent’s gifts, voted that they should obey Travez in all matters.

The very next day, the Archbishop called the leader of those Catholics and expelled them from the Convent; he also forbade them to carry the Statue and lead the Procession of the Dawn through the streets. This took place in mid-January, right before the February 2 Feast Day of Our Lady of Good Success.

En masse apostasy

Quo bono? Who benefitted from this expulsion? Obviously, the SSPX, which imagined that its representatives would replace those Catholics in bringing the Statue down from the upper choir to the main altar. I showed how Our Lady did not allow this to happen.

The Convent, once blooming with vocations, now rapidly shrinks in a climate of intrigue & worldliness

Further, that climate of internal intrigue and worldliness created by the Agent and La Capitana, aggravated by the fact that Fr. Bustos was the Convent confessor, generated an internal crisis among the nuns. Last December, in that small community 11 professed nuns left the Convent and returned to the world, leaving behind an ambience of desolation.

As far as I could verify, this hemorrhage continues…

In passing

Allow me to make in passing a last consideration.

Who is supplying my accusers with ammunition? These defenders of the SSPX – seminarians, web accomplices and agents – as well as those young priests who first attacked me, had no way of knowing on their own about those accusations. Indeed, those allegations were made 35 years ago when most of the accusers had not even been born. Thus, I presume that this new generation of priests is receiving those defamations from their seminary teachers and passing them on to their grassroots.

Now, those teachers should know perfectly well that the accusations are not true, because the refutations TFP published in 1984-1985 were sent to the central houses of the SSPX. Consequently, the SSPX directors and priests have all the elements to know that they are spreading slanders against Prof. Plinio and the TFP.

My question: How can these men say Mass and receive Communion if they do not repent and make public penance for defaming good Catholics? What account to God will they give for this constant detraction when they die?

To be continued...

Kazimierz · « **Reply #1 on:** May 26, 2019, 08:25:37 PM »

What a tangled web is weaved, but the Truth is never deceived. (As +W might say!)

In Quito, the game is afoot.

Incredulous · « **Reply #2 on:** May 26, 2019, 09:41:40 PM »

Yep, it's another intriguing case of the neo-SSPX getting their hand caught in the cookie jar.

Fr. Wegner, the naive German, never imagined that Atila would have an active intelligence network in Quito

Merry · « **Reply #3 on:** May 26, 2019, 11:14:12 PM »

If the SSPX feels Atila can/will be in their way, it figures they would go after him. I have admired Prof. Plinio, especially after reading that, when at Vat. II with Bishop Castro Meyer and Arch. Sigaud (?), and realizing what was happening there, he urged them to both walk to the front of the Council and face those offending progressive prelates - accusing them of treachery to the Church with the machinations they were pulling off. What a show stopper that would have been! But the Bishops would not go along with his inspiration. Too bad. Wonder what would have happened if they had.

cassini · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2019, 07:49:57 AM »

Having seen the wonderful video 'Our Lady of Good Success' and indeed this video put up on CIF the other day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJxM7Lo2URw

I saw in this convent of Quito a place truly protected from the real 'smoke of Satan' Vatican II. But now I read that smoke has finally made its way into Quito.

I know from his posts Incredulous has a deep interest in this wonderful miraculous place and obviously wants to protect and defend its tradition as best he can.

Since I heard and witnessed The SSPX promoting Fr Robinson's book that replaces Genesis with a load of heresies long condemned by the Fathers of the Church since the early centuries of the Church, I have lost faith in them as the means of restoring Tradition. Certainly they still provide the Mass and sacraments for millions, but their policies of late are not what should be expected of them. I am shocked to read now that a SSPX priest is now involved is trying to bring about change in what has been one of the last bastians of traditional Catholicism in the world.

So Incredulous, I place my faith in your view of things now in Quito that seem to be going in the way of other convents in the past. Typical of the bishop using his position to try to undermine what Our Lady requested for the convent and the tradition built around it.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #5 on:** May 27, 2019, 08:14:58 AM »

So sad that traditional Catholics are fighting with one another. It is depressing. It isn’t holy.

At least the TFP group does what it can to defend the faith publicly.

Incredulous is right.

CestMoiJeanneMarie · « **Reply #6 on:** May 28, 2019, 09:02:06 PM »

The silence from the SSPX in this matter is deafening...

As Atila put in this article: "Qui tacet consentire videtur – The one who remains silent appears to consent to the accusation."

CestMoiJeanneMarie · « **Reply #7 on:** May 28, 2019, 09:33:56 PM »

This is what I imagine SSPX must feel like getting caught in frauds.

Markus · « **Reply #8 on:** May 28, 2019, 10:36:50 PM »

What impressed me the most was the fact that there is still one more article to come. Mr. Atila doesn't pull any punches! :boxer:

And, just to say a few words, I'm looking forward to the next article because it will discuss the chief question: "Why were the disciples of Dr. Plinio in Quito in the first place?" After all, they have been in Quito for a good 30 years.

Ask the SSPX and they will tell you TFP coerced the nuns to accept their "takeover". The reality is just the opposite. I will say no more, only to wait for the next article. I believe it will convert even the most hardened detractors of TIA to the correct position. At the very least, it will convince all the fence-sitters to agree: SSPX was wrong to ever come to Quito, Ecuador...

Incredulous · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2019, 11:49:40 PM »

Quote from: CestMoiJeanneMarie on May 28, 2019, 09:33:56 PM

This is what I imagine SSPX must feel like getting caught in frauds.

Doesn't the "Owl" seems apropos for representing the "Menzingen Brotherhood" ?

Markus · « **Reply #10 on:** May 28, 2019, 11:56:50 PM »

Quote from: Incredulous on May 28, 2019, 11:49:40 PM

Doesn't the "Owl" seems apropos for representing the "Menzingen Brotherhood" ?

Good "Eye" Incredulous!

:applause:

Croixalist · « **Reply #11 on:** May 29, 2019, 07:53:35 AM »

What I don't understand in all this is why the two (or three if you count TIA) organizations are vying for narrative control and influence when:

a) they aren't the Prelado and
b) they aren't the Franciscans destined to take charge

We already know what it will take to restore the convent and (at least in part) the rest of the Catholic world. I would agree with some of the elements with Atila's concern about SSPX overreaching in this matter, whether it be Bp. Fellay or Bp. Williamson-aligned. The SSPX has always been about preserving the Mass first and foremost and in this tragic period we find ourselves in, but I can see how something like this could just as easily cause more problems than it tries to solve. I certainly don't believe they've made a convincing case against using "Good Success" in English... and I don't believe that title is in any real danger of being superseded, which brings me to the next point.

It was never established by Our Lady that her title ever needed to be translated perfectly into English or that the overall message really hinged upon it.. By all accounts "suceso" and "success" have always required an asterisk between translations precisely because they do not hold the same meaning in common usage. Even Atila was compelled to explain how the local usage of "suceso" eventually fell more in line with "success" over a period of time. It's not an obvious match at any rate and it certainly isn't beyond the realm of debate. When you factor in how English had yet to be standardized or become the lingua franca of the western world as it would later become, it's even less clear. To tear into a laywoman's reputation over something so tenuous is completely unnecessary in my view. None of the parties involved have the power to effect the change needed to correct the sad state of affairs at the convent. Perhaps he'd be better off contemplating where on earth this group of Franciscans (Minims?) will come from!

Croixalist · « **Reply #12 on:** May 29, 2019, 08:13:04 AM »

That the TFP seems content to allow Atila to speak for them and this entire sequence of events certainly throws into question how separate TIA really is from the TFP. It could be they still want nothing to do with TIA and this is Atila's attempt to reel them in to his point of view. Either way it doesn't completely match up. They have shown much more reluctance in criticizing the official NO than even the most progressive neo-con SSPX priest I've ever seen. Up to this point, I've been fairly positive towards the TFP's efforts in promoting traditionalism even if it didn't check all the boxes I'm looking for, refusal to take on VII being the obvious one. But isn't that just the thing all of us are concerned about with the relatively recent developments within the SSPX? This statement on TIA's website certainly seems outdated:

"The cordial relations of both Atila Guimarães and Marian Horvat with TFP ceased when they published the book In the Murky Waters of Vatican II. There is no relationship at present – official or otherwise – between the two organizations."
https://www.traditioninaction.org/Questions/A004_tfp.htm

So I have to keep asking myself what is the real motivation behind this is, because I'm not seeing the huge difference between TFP and SSPX in terms of willingness to work within the diocesan structures of the Church where possible. Am I supposed to believe that the TFP would refuse to work with Archbishop Travez? Atila seems to be overstepping quite a bit in this regard.

paxtecum111 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 29, 2019, 10:31:10 AM »

To the hollow men and women:

Atila Guimaraes, Marian Horvat and other holy people at TIA are merely trying to defend the convent of Quito, and Our Lady of Good Success against lesser minds and compromised principles.

With the continuing SSPX betrayal of its founding principles, the SSPX is spiritually unprepared to take over the convent of Quito, a convent steeped in holiness and relevance for All Time. Some of the present nuns at Quito certainly have learned nothing from Mother Mariana.

The present-day defensive and compromised SSPX seems to be projecting its recent petty and cultish behavior upon others.

Croixalist · « **Reply #14 on:** May 29, 2019, 11:11:49 AM »

If the SSPX is comprised due to softening on VII and Vatican relations... what on earth is TFP? Be honest! Why has Atila chosen this year to become their self-appointed defender? Did they request this? I for one have not been able to confirm anything from the TFP itself. No one is saying anything over there! Atila proceeds to use anonymous sources to claim a miracle happened with the miraculous statue, to provide insider information on a woman who's great crime is apparently suppressing "Success" for "Suceso."

To me, this is turning into yet another set of lay individuals trying to augment their influence in a Crisis that begins and ends with the clergy. By all means hold the line, but one Opus Dei is enough. Our Lady will provide the help and it will have to be from the top down. Atila has no excuse: he knows about the Prelado, the Holy Pope, the Franciscans. The SSPX, TIA, TFP just aren't mentioned in any recognizable way. It doesn't mean they can't do any good, it doesn't mean they can do no wrong, but they won't be turning the tide here. I hate to see more people wasting their time over this or worse.

Author Topic: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE (Read 4434 times)

Incredulous

SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Kazimierz

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Incredulous

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Merry

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

cassini

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Viva Cristo Rey

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

CestMoiJeanneMarie

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

CestMoiJeanneMarie

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Markus

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Incredulous

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Markus

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Croixalist

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Croixalist

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

paxtecum111

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE

Croixalist

Re: SSPX IN QUITO: FINAL BALANCE