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Author Topic: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”  (Read 3742 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2021, 06:18:25 AM »
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  • The whole orientation of the SSPX, made for example by Msgr. Fellay, Fr. N. Pfluger (i.a. former German district superior) and Fr. Wegner, is based on politics and not on moral principles. One wants to please Rome and the world. One wants to be accepted. One does not want to appear as weird, crazy or extreme. That is e.g. why (and not for moral reasons or principles) the SSPX distances itself from “crazies” like Msgr. Williamson and the followers of the Resistance.

    And this is also true of various issues surrounding Cövíd. One accepts the state measures and guidelines and on the other hand takes action against “extremists” on the question of masks or vaccínatíons. One does not want to annoy someone. Moral questions are reduced to mere questions of individual prudence and, if necessary, one hides behind Vatican orientations. There is no theological in-depth analysis of the interrelationships behind this pseudo pandεmíc.

    By the way, the public establishment of schools, the licensing of associations, the presence in the social media,... exist in the godless society only if one follows the rules of the game. Those who want to be uncompromisingly Catholic must expect opposition, problems or even the underground. After 50 years of grueling struggle against the Church of Vat II and the anti-Christian state, some people show signs of wear and tear and succuмb to misconceptions. Unfortunately.

    (My considerations relate primarily to the situation in the German District.)

    Of course, I agree with much of what you say here, and have made many of the same observations and arguments myself.

    My only reservation regards the suggestion that the Society would know or disregard the immorality of the ναccιnє, and induce others by their permission to take it.  

    That would be a monstrous betrayal, and a scandal (ie., leading others into sin) directly contrary to the priestly state.

    This would be a very serious allegation, and if I may say so, rash, in light of other credible explanations, such as a good faith belief in the “remote material “ justification.

    That argument may or may not be wrong (ie., Vigano has argued that the 2005 Vatican docuмent upon which the Society is making this argument is flawed because it erroneously presumed that there was one abortion 40+ years ago, whereas in fact the abortions are ongoing), and for me is a moot question, since there is clearly no necessity or proportionality (at least presently, as I understand those two terms, for 99.9% of Americans) which would justify recourse to the “remote material,” even were the Society correct that this principle could be relied upon with regard to abortive jabs.

    But being wrong is a whole different breed of cat than suggesting a society of priests is willfully inducing others into sin for political gain.  

    It’s the difference between intellectual error and malice, and the fact that the error brings some of the political benefits you mention does not suffice to declare a malicious intention, in the face of the justification the Society adduces.

    I don’t think we are permitted to make such rash accusations in the face of other credible motivations and explanations.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Emile

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #16 on: June 21, 2021, 02:04:42 PM »
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  • Austria: PiusX District Superior Abjures

    Father Stefan Frey, the PiusX District Superior in Austria, has recanted his "urgent" April warning against CÖVÌD-19 vaccinations. Now he says the opposite.

    In the PiusX June newsletter, Frey adopted the pro-vaccination position of his confrere Arnaud Sélégny, and even recommends the "solid official docuмents of the Vatican" on vaccination, calling it a "rich source of information." Frey explains that an ethically questionable ναccιnє can be used under four criteria:

    - there must be a clear emergency,

    - no approved alternative must be available,

    - the benefit of a vaccination must be greater than the harm, in case a person is not ναccιnαted,

    - there must be opposition to abortion-tainted ναccιnє research.

    At least, Frey admits that one can come to different conclusions on this issue and that nobody should force his opinion on anyone else. It seems however, that Frey himself was pushed by his superiors to swing to the PiusX party line on vaccinations.

    The problem with Frey's change of opinion is that his four arguments against vaccination remain in place despite his retraction, unless PiusX also intends to adopt the Vatican's position that — depending on political opportunism — what was true yesterday can suddenly be "wrong" today.

    #newsEvbwemskuw






    Google translated version of newsletter:

    Since the two articles in the April edition of the Austrian bulletin gave rise to misunderstandings, I would like to give some clarifications in the following which - I hope - are helpful to deepen the whole problem of the CÖVÌD vaccination and to create greater clarity. It is about the moral evaluation of ναccιnєs that are tainted by abortion, for the investigation of which embryonic cell lines that can be traced back to aborted children were used. Unfortunately, there is currently no CÖVÌD ναccιnє available in this country that would be ethically harmless if one is promised. More and more pressure is being exerted on the population to get ναccιnαted, until one day there may be a compulsory vaccination, which in other countries such as Italy already exists for certain professional groups. How should we behave as staunch Catholics? Can an ethically questionable vaccination be allowed, and if so, under what conditions? Father Arnaud Sélégny, Head of Communications of the General House of the FSSPX, explored these questions in great detail in his article “Is the ναccιnє against CÖVÌD-19 morally harmless?” Of December 4, 2020 Another rich source of information can be found in solid official docuмents from the Vatican, which take a stand and give instructions on vaccination issues and other bio-ethical questions. In connection with the traditional principles of moral theology, I would like to briefly apply them to our topic in a generally understandable manner.
    In order for an ethically questionable ναccιnє to be used, the following four criteria must be met:
    1. The sufficiently serious reason: There must be a clear emergency, such as a serious threat to life, personal, professional or family situation. If, for example, one is forced to ναccιnαte without being able to defend oneself, or if there is a "high health risk" with expected serious consequences that can only be averted by vaccination, then this is the case.2 A concrete example is the rubella vaccination in Germany, where vaccination is compulsory, which in particular confronts our schools and old people's homes with inevitable difficulties. If the Society refused to accept the abortion-stained vaccination, it would have to close all of its schools and old people's homes. - There is a clear compulsion that cannot be resisted. That is why vaccination is allowed. So if there is really and effectively a serious threat to life, personal, professional or family situation, you can accept a vaccination with the currently common substances without being morally wrong.
    2. The lack of alternatives: This is the case when no other way out of the above-mentioned threat can be found than vaccination. For example, if there was an ethically sound rubella ναccιnє, one would be obliged to use it. (There would actually be a Japanese one, but one that is not approved in Germany.) So here there is no alternative to the situation. To combat corona disease, morally harmless so-called dead ναccιnєs will be available in the foreseeable future, but it cannot be foreseen at the moment whether they will be approved in our countries - may only be used under the listed serious circuмstances. It should also be noted that a number of treatments have been used to treat CÖVÌD sufferers with apparently surprising success. If you want to be ναccιnαted for health reasons, you should check in advance and find out whether such an alternative therapy is an option.
    3. Proportionality: The benefit of vaccination must be greater than the expected harm of not vaccinating. If the benefit is uncertain, or the risk of vaccination is greater than the risk of the disease, it is not permissible to get ναccιnαted for health reasons.3
    4. The obligation to protest against abortion-prone vaccination research: You have to resist the use of these ναccιnєs as best you can. Even those who are forced to ναccιnαte should clearly express their protest. Furthermore, one should - as far as possible - energetically call on the responsible groups to develop ethically sound treatment methods or to advocate for them. The declaration of the Pontifical Academy for Life of June 5, 2005 speaks unequivocally in this regard Conclusion: In order to act conscientiously before God and others, one is required to use these criteria to strive for a wise judgment. It must be admitted that this is not easy in every case, since it is the issue
    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer


    Offline Mr G

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #17 on: June 21, 2021, 02:31:25 PM »
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  • Here is the key statement on why the SSPX will give in to the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr/Communists without a fight:


    "If the Society refused to accept the abortion-stained vaccination, it would have to close all of its schools and old people's homes. - There is a clear compulsion that cannot be resisted. That is why vaccination is allowed. So if there is really and effectively a serious threat to life, personal, professional or family situation, you can accept a vaccination with the currently common substances without being morally wrong."



    Dr. Peter McCullough – COVID Vaccines Have Already Killed 50,000 Americans | (tapnewswire.com)

    Dr. McCullough went on to express a chilling theory that the vaccines could have been designed to reduce the world’s population.
     
    “If you said this is all a Gates Foundation program to reduce the population, it’s fitting very well with that hypothesis, right? The first wave was to kill the old people by the respiratory infection, the second wave is to take the survivors and target the young people and sterilize them,” he said.

    NOTE, it looks like the SSPX will eventually have to close its schools and old folks home once the killer vaccine take sits full effect. The SSPX will have no customers as it told them to take the vaccine.



    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #18 on: June 21, 2021, 03:08:16 PM »
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  • Austria: PiusX District Superior Abjures

    Father Stefan Frey, the PiusX District Superior in Austria, has recanted his "urgent" April warning against CÖVÌD-19 vaccinations. Now he says the opposite.

    In the PiusX June newsletter, Frey adopted the pro-vaccination position of his confrere Arnaud Sélégny, and even recommends the "solid official docuмents of the Vatican" on vaccination, calling it a "rich source of information." Frey explains that an ethically questionable ναccιnє can be used under four criteria:

    - there must be a clear emergency,

    - no approved alternative must be available,

    - the benefit of a vaccination must be greater than the harm, in case a person is not ναccιnαted,

    - there must be opposition to abortion-tainted ναccιnє research.

    At least, Frey admits that one can come to different conclusions on this issue and that nobody should force his opinion on anyone else. It seems however, that Frey himself was pushed by his superiors to swing to the PiusX party line on vaccinations.

    The problem with Frey's change of opinion is that his four arguments against vaccination remain in place despite his retraction, unless PiusX also intends to adopt the Vatican's position that — depending on political opportunism — what was true yesterday can suddenly be "wrong" today.

    #newsEvbwemskuw






    Google translated version of newsletter:

    Since the two articles in the April edition of the Austrian bulletin gave rise to misunderstandings, I would like to give some clarifications in the following which - I hope - are helpful to deepen the whole problem of the CÖVÌD vaccination and to create greater clarity. It is about the moral evaluation of ναccιnєs that are tainted by abortion, for the investigation of which embryonic cell lines that can be traced back to aborted children were used. Unfortunately, there is currently no CÖVÌD ναccιnє available in this country that would be ethically harmless if one is promised. More and more pressure is being exerted on the population to get ναccιnαted, until one day there may be a compulsory vaccination, which in other countries such as Italy already exists for certain professional groups. How should we behave as staunch Catholics? Can an ethically questionable vaccination be allowed, and if so, under what conditions? Father Arnaud Sélégny, Head of Communications of the General House of the FSSPX, explored these questions in great detail in his article “Is the ναccιnє against CÖVÌD-19 morally harmless?” Of December 4, 2020 Another rich source of information can be found in solid official docuмents from the Vatican, which take a stand and give instructions on vaccination issues and other bio-ethical questions. In connection with the traditional principles of moral theology, I would like to briefly apply them to our topic in a generally understandable manner.
    In order for an ethically questionable ναccιnє to be used, the following four criteria must be met:
    1. The sufficiently serious reason: There must be a clear emergency, such as a serious threat to life, personal, professional or family situation. If, for example, one is forced to ναccιnαte without being able to defend oneself, or if there is a "high health risk" with expected serious consequences that can only be averted by vaccination, then this is the case.2 A concrete example is the rubella vaccination in Germany, where vaccination is compulsory, which in particular confronts our schools and old people's homes with inevitable difficulties. If the Society refused to accept the abortion-stained vaccination, it would have to close all of its schools and old people's homes. - There is a clear compulsion that cannot be resisted. That is why vaccination is allowed. So if there is really and effectively a serious threat to life, personal, professional or family situation, you can accept a vaccination with the currently common substances without being morally wrong.
    2. The lack of alternatives: This is the case when no other way out of the above-mentioned threat can be found than vaccination. For example, if there was an ethically sound rubella ναccιnє, one would be obliged to use it. (There would actually be a Japanese one, but one that is not approved in Germany.) So here there is no alternative to the situation. To combat corona disease, morally harmless so-called dead ναccιnєs will be available in the foreseeable future, but it cannot be foreseen at the moment whether they will be approved in our countries - may only be used under the listed serious circuмstances. It should also be noted that a number of treatments have been used to treat CÖVÌD sufferers with apparently surprising success. If you want to be ναccιnαted for health reasons, you should check in advance and find out whether such an alternative therapy is an option.
    3. Proportionality: The benefit of vaccination must be greater than the expected harm of not vaccinating. If the benefit is uncertain, or the risk of vaccination is greater than the risk of the disease, it is not permissible to get ναccιnαted for health reasons.3
    4. The obligation to protest against abortion-prone vaccination research: You have to resist the use of these ναccιnєs as best you can. Even those who are forced to ναccιnαte should clearly express their protest. Furthermore, one should - as far as possible - energetically call on the responsible groups to develop ethically sound treatment methods or to advocate for them. The declaration of the Pontifical Academy for Life of June 5, 2005 speaks unequivocally in this regard Conclusion: In order to act conscientiously before God and others, one is required to use these criteria to strive for a wise judgment. It must be admitted that this is not easy in every case, since it is the issue

    Where's the link to Fr. Frey's retraction??
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #19 on: June 21, 2021, 03:33:04 PM »
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  • Here's the original link to the retraction: https://mitteilungsblatt-a.fsspx.online/mb-juni-2021-osterreich/a-editorial

    Here's the DeepL.com translation (emphases mine - SJ):


    Since the two articles in the April issue of the Austrian newsletter have given rise to misunderstandings, I would like to provide some clarifications in the following, which - I hope - will be helpful to deepen the whole issue of the CÖVÌD ναccιnє and to create greater clarity. This is about the moral value of ναccιnєs that are tainted by abortion, i.e. for the research of which embryonic cell lines were used that originate from aborted children. Unfortunately, there is currently no CÖVÌD ναccιnє available in this country that would be ethically safe, even if such a ναccιnє is in prospect.

    More and more pressure is being put on the population to be ναccιnαted, until perhaps one day there will be compulsory vaccination, which already exists in other countries such as Italy for certain professional groups. How should we behave as convinced Catholics? Can an ethically questionable vaccination be allowed, and if so, under what conditions? Father Arnaud Sélégny, communications director of the General House of the FSSPX, explored these questions in great detail in his December 4, 2020 article, "Is the CÖVÌD-19 ναccιnє morally safe? "1

    Another fruitful source of information can be found in solid official Vatican docuмents that take positions and give directives on the vaccination issue and other bio-ethical questions. In connection with the traditional principles of moral theology, I would like to make the application to our subject matter in a generally understandable way. In order for an ethically questionable ναccιnє to be used, the following four criteria must be met:


    1. the sufficiently serious reason: there must be a clear emergency, such as a serious threat to life, personal, professional or family situation. For example, if one is forced to be ναccιnαted without being able to defend oneself, or if there is a "high risk to health" with expected serious consequences that can only be averted by vaccination, then this reason is given.2

    A concrete example is the rubella vaccination in Germany, where vaccination is compulsory, confronting our schools and old people's homes in particular with inescapable difficulties. If the priestly fraternity refused to accept the abortion-stained vaccination, it would have to close all its schools and old people's homes. - There is a clear compulsion that cannot be resisted. That is why vaccination is allowed.

    Therefore, if there is a real and effective serious threat to one's life, personal, professional or family situation, one can accept vaccination with the substances currently in use without morally failing.

    2. the lack of alternative: this is given if no other way can be found to avert the above-mentioned threat than vaccination. For example, if there were an ethically sound rubella ναccιnє, one would be obligated to use it. (There would indeed be a Japanese one, but it is not licensed in Germany). Here, then, the situation is without alternative.

    To fight corona disease, morally harmless so-called dead ναccιnєs will be available in the foreseeable future, but whether they will be approved in our countries is not yet foreseeable.3 Thus, the currently used ναccιnєs are without alternative for the individual citizen, who may therefore use them - but only under the serious circuмstances mentioned. It should also be noted that a number of treatments have been used to treat CÖVÌD sufferers with apparently surprising success. Anyone wishing to be ναccιnαted for health reasons should check in advance and obtain information as to whether such an alternative therapy might not be an option.

    3. proportionality: the benefit of vaccination must be greater than the expected harm of non-vaccination. If the benefit is uncertain, or the risk of vaccination is greater than the risk of the disease, it is not permissible to be ναccιnαted for health reasons.3

    4 The obligation to protest against abortion-induced vaccination research: one must resist the use of these ναccιnєs as best one can. Even those who are forced to be ναccιnαted should clearly express their protest. Furthermore, one should - as far as possible - vigorously call upon the responsible circles to develop ethically sound methods of treatment or to commit themselves to them. The declaration of the Pontifical Academy for Life of June 5, 2005, speaks an unmistakable language in this regard.4


    Conclusion:

    In order to act conscientiously before God and one's fellow man, one is required to strive to make a wise judgment based on these criteria. It must be admitted that this is not easy in every case, since there is contradictory and confusing information on the subject, experts often disagree, for example, on the risk-benefit analysis, and therefore it is inevitable that one may come to different conclusions. Therefore, beware of trying to impose one's own opinion on others without respect. However, everyone is obliged to inform themselves to the best of their knowledge and belief and then make a responsible decision.

    In this difficult time, let us take trusting refuge in the Sacred Heart of Jesus. His unbreakable promises fill us with comfort and confidence. From Him we draw light and tranquility, strength and courage, so that we may prove ourselves in the present trial and one day merit the eternal reward for our spotless fidelity.

    With priestly blessings,

    Fr. Stefan Frey
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Emile

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #20 on: June 21, 2021, 04:44:08 PM »
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  • Here is the key statement on why the SSPX will give in to the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr/Communists without a fight:


    "If the Society refused to accept the abortion-stained vaccination, it would have to close all of its schools and old people's homes. - There is a clear compulsion that cannot be resisted. That is why vaccination is allowed. So if there is really and effectively a serious threat to life, personal, professional or family situation, you can accept a vaccination with the currently common substances without being morally wrong."
    I thought the title of the article that I posted might have gone a bit far, until I read the part that you highlight above.
    Seems like a pretty low threshold for what constitutes "a clear compulsion that cannot be resisted."
    Even Boston Catholic Charities gave a better example; they had the courage and conviction to stop doing adoptions altogether rather than adopt children to ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs.
    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #21 on: June 21, 2021, 08:29:36 PM »
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  • That's certainly not the case for our district superior. Fr. Frey is gifted with common sense and he is supported by a confrere in the district, who profundly studies all the topics regarding the pseudo-pandemic and the "Great Reset".

    I should also note, that at the same time the neighboring district of Germany published a text, with nearly the opposit content than Fr. Frey's article.

    The reason for this difference can be reduced to two problems: lack of discrete thinking (inability/unwillingness to grasp the underlying problems of the whole transformation process) and fear of state sanctions (that could push the SSPX back in to the underground).

    AtH-

    Now that Fr. Frey has done a 180 (just like Fr. Peter Scott did), what do you make of his newest position?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Against the Heresies

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #22 on: June 22, 2021, 02:43:55 AM »
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  • Dear Sean, I have read Fr. Frey’s new article with great regret. I have no information yet on the background of his 180 turn. I’ve contacted a priest of the district on this matter, but I’m still waiting for his feedback.
     
    I strongly suspect that the article was drafted under pressure from Menzingen (for the sake of a unified line within the SSPX). The arguments Fr. Frey makes in the new text regarding ναccιnation are from the standpoint of moral theology insufficient and even wrong.
    Unfortunately, however, Fr. Frey confirms the very point I made in my earlier posting: The SSPX's position is based in no small part on political considerations (…”it would have to close all of its schools and old people's homes”).
     
    If I receive any new information from the District, I will be happy to post it here.


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #23 on: July 13, 2021, 06:01:16 AM »
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  • I suppose the argument can be made that the SSPX has put morals aside already when it accepted the New York policy to require all children to be ναccιnαted or face the closure of its schools.
    That is terrible. It is a slap in the face to God and the faithful.  They are getting kickback.  Also, just learned that people who had loved ones in rest homes who died of “CÖVÌD” received money and that’s why there is no protesting.

    Better the schools be closed down then children murdered and losing souls. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #24 on: July 13, 2021, 06:06:20 AM »
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  • God provides. He gave us our bodies with immune systems.   These vaccines are evil in every way.  Even the past vaccines and everyday meds with many strange and deadly side effects.  Malpractice is the biggest cause of death.  Our eating habits are killing us. Too many c sections and knee replacements.  All about money.  Legalized abortions now being used in testing,in  vaccines and processed food. This is pure evil. This this is  Obedience to the Communist United Nations instead of God.  This is genocide and the Catholic Church has blood on their hands.

    Obedience to God and only God. Time for laity, clergy and religious  to stand up against hierarchy of the Catholic Church.



    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #25 on: July 13, 2021, 06:14:28 AM »
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  • There are a lot of good and holy priests within SSPX.  We pray for them. 
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline trento

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #26 on: July 18, 2021, 01:58:02 AM »
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  • Even before Covid19 became a buzzword, some countries already mandated other vaccines for their citizens from childhood. What are Catholics to do in such circuмstances?

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #27 on: July 18, 2021, 05:30:55 AM »
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  • Even before CÖVÌD19 became a buzzword, some countries already mandated other vaccines for their citizens from childhood. What are Catholics to do in such circuмstances?
    Resist!
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline trento

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #28 on: July 18, 2021, 10:02:40 AM »
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  • Resist
    All would have received those vaccines already since childhood, even traddies.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX District of Austria Prohibits “ναccιnє”
    « Reply #29 on: July 18, 2021, 10:07:43 AM »
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  • All would have received those vaccines already since childhood, even traddies.
    Then why are you asking??
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."