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Author Topic: SSPX deal dead?  (Read 3685 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: SSPX deal dead?
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2017, 07:52:08 PM »
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  • Theoretically if this turns the clock back on the SSPX to 2009 and prior, probably ok, but you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. It is a different Society. What about the Conciliar validated marriages? Will the Society ordain new Bishops? Where does this all lead? Somehow I don't think it's over. Bishop Fellay would have to admit defeat and do a 180 for the Society to return to it's former positions. I doubt that will happen.
    Good points.

    Also, this isn't about personal opposition, animosity, or even hatred for Bishop Fellay. Far from it. It's never been about that.

    This is about doctrine, not personalities. This is about the heart, soul and future of the Traditional movement.

    There is a whole new direction in the SSPX, and this direction is embraced by a good section of its priests. These priests also happen to hold all the positions of power at this point. Even if it were only 1/5 of the total number, that's still a pretty strong force. And when the "conservatives" (a.k.a. the internal resistance) do nothing, and the other 1/3 are oblivious or don't care, you can see what dynamic will dominate.

    The revolutionaries are always the most fervent. They are ready to die for their cause. Conservatives never feel so strongly about "keeping the status quo", unfortunately.

    That's why a minority at Vatican II managed to hijack the council and blindside most people.
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    Offline stgobnait

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #16 on: July 08, 2017, 08:49:59 AM »
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  • We should pray to the deceased Priests of SSPX, THE VANGUARD, those who stepped up by the Grace of God, without fear or favor, and followed the Tradition of Holy Mother Church, and some who even gave their lives to keep Tradition alive, there may still be some within, suffering dry martyrdom, we should pray for those too, that they find courage and conviction again to step up and defend the Faith that brought them to the SSPX in the first place....


    Offline Marlelar

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #17 on: July 08, 2017, 02:49:06 PM »
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  • I think this leaves the SSPX in a perfect position as far as I'm concerned.  Rome has permitted valid confessions, marriages (albeit with NO involvement), and masses, baptisms, and last rites have always been valid.  The SSPX doesn't need Rome - by anyone's account.

    I'm pretty sure all the SSPX bishops will out live Pope Francis.  Hopefully the pendulum will swing in the direction of tradition after this last dance with Marxism and Liberation theology.
    Except that Frank has stuffed the ranks with like minded radicals whom I believe will vote for an even more liberal "Pope" next time.  The NO is doomed to increasing its distance from the true faith, I don't see anyway for them to ever reclaim their faith, until of course God directly intervenes. 

    Offline Cato

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #18 on: July 08, 2017, 05:33:56 PM »
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  • Except that Frank has stuffed the ranks with like minded radicals whom I believe will vote for an even more liberal "Pope" next time.  The NO is doomed to increasing its distance from the true faith, I don't see anyway for them to ever reclaim their faith, until of course God directly intervenes.
    I put a lot of stock in the story of Pope Leo overhearing Satin and God discussing the destruction of the church.
    The SSPX has everything it needs to minister to faithful Catholics.  On one hand there is the emergency situation going on which empowers the Society to act.  Then for those who are overly obedient to Rome, their consciences can be satisfied that Rome has permitted SSPX sacraments. 

    Offline wallflower

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #19 on: July 08, 2017, 10:04:07 PM »
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  • I won't be joining the happy chorus of "Ding Dong, the Deal is Dead" quite yet, since I suspect it's only napping.

    Ditto. This is all deja vu. In 2012 they got so close to a purely practical agreement that they spooked a bunch of people and lost priests. Suddenly the deal "died" because of Rome's demands. Certain priests went on circuit insisting +Fellay was NOT looking for a deal; however, if he were, this and this and this are all the reasons it would be fine if he did. Fast forward a few years of relative quiet, people got comfy again and the deal talk goes public again. First the confessions thing went over ok, now the marriages thing. Whoops, they've spooked a bunch of people and lost (or almost lost? are losing?) a bunch of priests again. Suddenly the deal has "died" again because of Rome's demands. We hear that all these "advances" aren't necessarily because of +Fellay looking for a deal (but Pope Francis giving "freely") and yet a long article is released about why it would not be wrong for him to do so. Notice a trend??

    And it really makes the SSPX look good when the deal "dies" because Rome suddenly comes up with demands they have to reject. Yet, strings are exactly what Resistance priests and people are warning them about to start with. So it's ok for the SSPX to keep having to reject Rome because of the inevitable strings attached but it is not ok for parishioners and priests to mention there will be inevitable strings attached that make such negotiations imprudent. Why?? Because there is nothing sincere in the rejections. It is all strategy. Rome suddenly going overboard in their demands and the SSPX leadership rejecting them... it's a little song and dance for the audience. The deal is still on, it is just napping, as 1st Mansion Tenant put it. They just need to go back a step again before they go forward two steps again.

    Just like last time I will only trust their back peddling if it comes with apologies, reinstatement, and the clearing of names of "agitator" priests, who were loyal when loyalty offered no reward. Unless the words are followed by definitive actions, I expect two steps forward again in the not too distant future.  


    Offline stgobnait

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #20 on: July 09, 2017, 05:43:44 AM »
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  • Anyone who thjnks BF et al will roll over and submit to a new election, will have a new think coming, as if they will let these years of work go to waste, No they have their eyes on the prize, and it is within their grasp, an in house election wont stop the trainwreck, the bodies are already in place, 

    Offline Paul FHC

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #21 on: July 09, 2017, 08:13:16 AM »
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  • What is interesting, however, is that this newest development places a new importance on the 2018 General Chapter. Before, it was thought that the goose would be cooked by that time, but seeing as this new delay was put in place, I think that we might see the whole process drag out a couple of more years.

    Even then, I think that the chances of a conservative counterstrike at the 2018 GC are slim to none. Just look at the list of chapter members.  The overwhelming majority are the newthinkers and henchmen of Bp. Fellay. The two biggest districts, France and the US are headed up by absolute yes-men,Fr. Bouchacourt and Fr. Wegner. We all remember Fr. B's comments about how the Jєω's did not commit deicide and more recently how he was the man used to smash the ιnѕυrrєcтισn of the deans. Fr. Wegner is no better, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe he was responsible for the rebranding.

    The only chance for something positive to happen, and boy is it an outside one, is Bp. Tissier to profit from everyone being together and start to attack the betrayal of ABL's mission. The only reason that such an attack would gain traction in the face of such a staggering majority of liberals is that Bp. T has the filial respect and devotion of the priests of France. Given that he was at one time the rector at Econe he has the political clout among the important theologians in the SSPX, think Fr. de Jorna and Fr. Gleize. Plus, he is a bishop...

    But all things considered, I still think that nothing will result excepting the bad from next year's GC. The one man who is worthy of hope has said this past year in Australia that he was participating in Pope Francis' year of mercy... Unbelievable...

    Offline stgobnait

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #22 on: July 09, 2017, 09:16:20 AM »
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  • Bishop Tissier to stand up to Bishop Fellay? Two chances, slim and none!


    Offline Paul FHC

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #23 on: July 09, 2017, 10:33:00 AM »
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  • Bishop Tissier to stand up to Bishop Fellay? Two chances, slim and none!
    From that point of view, the game is basically up. What doesn't filter into the public to often, however, is that a few senior priests in France are putting pressure on Bp. T to do something. 

    Offline wallflower

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #24 on: July 09, 2017, 10:27:17 PM »
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  • From that point of view, the game is basically up. What doesn't filter into the public to often, however, is that a few senior priests in France are putting pressure on Bp. T to do something.

    I hope you are right. As jaded as I am towards the leadership (or realistic, however you see it), I do still hold out some hope that there is more internal resistance going on than what trickles down to us.


    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #25 on: July 10, 2017, 02:36:21 AM »
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  • Bishop Tissier to stand up to Bishop Fellay? Two chances, slim and none!
    I think if +M was going to do anything concrete he would have by now. I had hopes early on, especially considering the letter to +Fellay from the 3 bishops,  but that sank like a foundered canoe. I can't see him donning his superhero cape at this hour if there is no longer imminent danger of a deal.

    Also, barring some kind of a coup, I don't think there is a chance of anyone putting their feet up on the SG desk who isn't presently one of +Fellay's like-minded cronies.


    Offline stgobnait

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    Re: SSPX deal dead?
    « Reply #26 on: July 10, 2017, 03:33:58 AM »
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  • Coup? Don't hold your breath, seems to me, some are happy enough to be kicked when they are downed,suppose its a form of humilty