Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: SSPX Daughters Being Lost to the World, 1960’s All Over Again.  (Read 7966 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
  • *****
  • Posts: 10303
  • Reputation: +6213/-1742
  • Gender: Male
Re: SSPX Daughters Being Lost to the World, 1960’s All Over Again.
« Reply #75 on: November 05, 2021, 12:39:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    I get the impression many people just think "this is how we dress at church/Mass etc.", but they think the typical modern immodest attire is fine for the rest of the week. 
    Yes, people may think this way but God gave everyone a conscience and the 10 Commandments He wrote on everyone's heart, so ultimately, there's no excuse.  If they think this way it's because they have allowed themselves too, bit by bit.


    Offline Seraphina

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2928
    • Reputation: +2045/-184
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX Daughters Being Lost to the World, 1960’s All Over Again.
    « Reply #76 on: November 05, 2021, 04:40:14 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Single women worked jobs like nursing school teachers etc until they got married and has their own families.  Hair dressers and other jobs enable women to stay home and bring in income. Most men who are in trade make more money then those who went to college.  I think that Catholic young people need to be taught Catholic leadership. They go out into the world and go along with secular and atheists instead of having a traditional Catholic club. Moslems have succeeded into pushing their religion on “ Catholic “ colleges. 
    That was then; this is now.  Both nursing and school teaching require a minimum of a bachelor’s degree just to start.  Most states require a master’s degree within a certain period of time.  Exceptions would be jobs like home health aid or companion, teacher’s assistant, or employment in a non-accredited school or as a homeschool assistant.  If it’s a living wage that’s needed, the lower levels of nursing or education are unlikely to suffice.  If a young woman intends to marry and that is a realistic prospect, then college is not necessary.  She can work as a cashier, sell items online, be a mother’s helper, or a waitress, no college needed. Her services may be needed in her own home if there are many younger siblings, mother is homeschooling, or someone in the home needs health care.  A former student of mine helped care for her elderly grandmother while her mother was occupied with homeschooling.  She did this for several years after high school and while engaged.  She and her fiancé waited a year and a half until he was out of the Army, then they got married.  He has a plumbing business and she is a full time Mom and wife.  College wasn’t needed.
    It’s a different story if a woman must support herself!  


    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41857
    • Reputation: +23915/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Daughters Being Lost to the World, 1960’s All Over Again.
    « Reply #77 on: November 05, 2021, 05:10:26 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Why do we need two of these threads going on at the same time?

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41857
    • Reputation: +23915/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Daughters Being Lost to the World, 1960’s All Over Again.
    « Reply #78 on: November 05, 2021, 05:12:51 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Yes, people may think this way but God gave everyone a conscience and the 10 Commandments He wrote on everyone's heart, so ultimately, there's no excuse.  If they think this way it's because they have allowed themselves too, bit by bit.

    To a point, I think.  I know that when I was still in the NO, I never even heard the term "modesty" uttered and had no idea.  I figured that shorts were just normal attire to keep cool in warm weather, and that everything else was just normal.  I never gave it a second thought ... unless obviously something entirely outrageous presented itself.  But not the typical shorts or short skirt and sleeveless shirt or even low-cut stuff.  Didn't really think much about it, just figured it was normal.  I mean, I wore shorts and a T-shirt in the summer time myself not as a fashion statement but because it was hot (and my family didn't have air conditioning) ... and I found shorts and a T-shirt comfortable.  And, on top of that, I had no clue that impure thoughts were a grave sin.  I figured you had to actually do something along those lines.  People are simply not properly catechized and so they absorb their sensibilities from the culture around them.  You have all those African tribes where the women run around bare-breasted and nobody there thinks it's unusual or gives it a second thought.

    I don't believe that modesty is natural law "written on everyone's heart".  Adam and Eve were not clothed.  Rather, it's a result of FALLEN nature and its consequences.

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10303
    • Reputation: +6213/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Daughters Being Lost to the World, 1960’s All Over Again.
    « Reply #79 on: November 05, 2021, 07:27:40 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1

  • Quote
    I don't believe that modesty is natural law "written on everyone's heart". 
    ??  You're serious?  Of course it is.


    What happens to those who act immodestly and claim they "don't know", is that they commit other sins regularly (i.e. lying, uncharity, laziness, lack of prayer), so their conscience is dulled to all manner of things, including modesty.  A person with a well formed conscience is acutely aware of modesty because they are in-tune with religion.  A person who is not living their Faith, or doing so lukewarmly, will have an ill-formed conscience, which is ultimately, ignorance of sin.

    Just like the native indian who doesn't know about Catholicism (i.e. because he doesn't practice the natural law) and does not make it to heaven...this is a punishment for sin.

    So a Catholic who doesn't have a well-formed conscience (i.e. because he doesn't pray or lukewarmly practices his Faith) and does not recognize sins against the natural law...this is a punishment for sin/lukewarmness.


    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3327/-1937
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Daughters Being Lost to the World, 1960’s All Over Again.
    « Reply #80 on: November 06, 2021, 04:54:35 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • ??  You're serious?  Of course it is.


    What happens to those who act immodestly and claim they "don't know", is that they commit other sins regularly (i.e. lying, uncharity, laziness, lack of prayer), so their conscience is dulled to all manner of things, including modesty.  A person with a well formed conscience is acutely aware of modesty because they are in-tune with religion.  A person who is not living their Faith, or doing so lukewarmly, will have an ill-formed conscience, which is ultimately, ignorance of sin.

    Just like the native indian who doesn't know about Catholicism (i.e. because he doesn't practice the natural law) and does not make it to heaven...this is a punishment for sin.

    So a Catholic who doesn't have a well-formed conscience (i.e. because he doesn't pray or lukewarmly practices his Faith) and does not recognize sins against the natural law...this is a punishment for sin/lukewarmness.

    I once took some traveling SSPX Brothers to see a lighthouse on a beach. I took them during the week and in the Winter (South Florida) when I knew hardly anyone would be there in bathing suits. The Brothers were dressed in the cassocks and looked just like two priests. We were walking around a corner and all the sudden two young girls in bikinis were in front of us. They looked up and almost jumped back, and covered themselves with their hands as they went by. I was very much surprised by the reaction. Most interesting. It taught me something.


    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX Daughters Being Lost to the World, 1960’s All Over Again.
    « Reply #81 on: November 06, 2021, 09:24:34 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • To a point, I think.  I know that when I was still in the NO, I never even heard the term "modesty" uttered and had no idea.  I figured that shorts were just normal attire to keep cool in warm weather, and that everything else was just normal.  I never gave it a second thought ... unless obviously something entirely outrageous presented itself.  But not the typical shorts or short skirt and sleeveless shirt or even low-cut stuff.  Didn't really think much about it, just figured it was normal.  I mean, I wore shorts and a T-shirt in the summer time myself not as a fashion statement but because it was hot (and my family didn't have air conditioning) ... and I found shorts and a T-shirt comfortable.  And, on top of that, I had no clue that impure thoughts were a grave sin.  I figured you had to actually do something along those lines.  People are simply not properly catechized and so they absorb their sensibilities from the culture around them.  You have all those African tribes where the women run around bare-breasted and nobody there thinks it's unusual or gives it a second thought.

    I don't believe that modesty is natural law "written on everyone's heart".  Adam and Eve were not clothed.  Rather, it's a result of FALLEN nature and its consequences.

    I agree. Has any tradition in the Church (Church Fathers, Popes, or theologians) ever said that modesty is a part of the Natural Law? It's possible, but I don't recall seeing it. But then it wasn't a big problem until the last century.

    I recall once inviting a friend that I had from when I first attended the NO (before I converted, and she was very helpful in answering my questions about Catholicism). She was a Filipina, married to an American. When the Latin Mass came to this very same parish years later (FSSP), I invited her to attend the TLM, and see what it was like, and she did. Well, I still remember the first time she attended the TLM. She was dressed in old blue jeans and an old coat. And she was quite loud with her talking in Church. Well, it turned out that she liked the Mass, and she and her husband became members. And she slowly began to dress more and more modestly, but it took time. So sometimes it's a case where some women don't really have a clue at first.

    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41857
    • Reputation: +23915/-4344
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Daughters Being Lost to the World, 1960’s All Over Again.
    « Reply #82 on: November 06, 2021, 10:27:28 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • ??  You're serious?  Of course it is.

    Then explain why Adam and Even walked around naked.

    It's an aspect of FALLEN nature, not nature itself.  That's why I said ... to a point.

    And then the precise limits of modesty are not clear at all from natural sensibilities.  There are certain obvious things, but then there are other lines that are not so obvious.  Sure, I'd immediately feel uncomfortable walking around naked.  But I had no clue about, say, shorts and a T-shirt.  Similarly, if a woman were walking around dressed like a hooker, sure, she's probably aware of it being inappropriate.  But a woman might walk around with shorts a few inches above the knee and a sleeveless shirt and have absolutely NO CLUE that there's anything wrong with that.  Or, alternatively, she might wear pants and not have any clue about that being wrong either.


    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 10303
    • Reputation: +6213/-1742
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Daughters Being Lost to the World, 1960’s All Over Again.
    « Reply #83 on: November 06, 2021, 11:34:41 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0

  • Quote
    Then explain why Adam and Even walked around naked.

    It's an aspect of FALLEN nature, not nature itself.  That's why I said ... to a point.
    You’re comparing pre Original Sin vs post Original sin?  That’s like comparing the Old Testament vs New.  Apples vs Potatoes.  


    Everyone is born with the natural law written on their heart.  Once you reach the age of reason, you know immodesty from modesty.  This is a doctrine of the Faith. 

    As soon as Adam and Eve sinned, they reacted like all of us should in the POST original sin world - they covered themselves.