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Author Topic: SSPX consecrations announced  (Read 10592 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: SSPX consecrations announced
« Reply #120 on: Yesterday at 10:20:21 AM »
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  • Let's just hope that Tucho isn't healing Fr. Pagliarani with his mouth ...

    ... one more reason I'd never want to be photographed with that guy.

    I'd be shocked if this doesn't become notorious some day like everyone who ever took a picture with Epstein.

    In any case, why would you even dignify Tucho with pretending he's some head of "doctrine"?  That alone constitutes a betrayal.

    If I were Fr. Pagliarani (and believed Prevost was even the Pope), I'd say outright and publicly that "no, I'm not going to deal with that guy and have him sit in doctrinal judgment over us when he couldn't pass a quiz based on Baltmore No. 2".  Bring in Arinze, Sarah, or even Schneider, and we can talk a bit, but I won't talk to Tucho, and don't need any healing either.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #121 on: Yesterday at 10:27:11 AM »
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  • Far too much ado is being made about the Kayfabe, with the Motarians and conservatives howling "schism" as they rend their garmeents, and grifters everywhere attempting to capitalize on the attention is getting, with many declaring SSPX guilty of schism, where, last time I checked, there was no Canonical Penalty for SAYING you're GOING TO consecreate with or without a papal mandate.  That was clearly just Fr. Pagliarani's attempt to get Rome's attention, and also to hurl it out there as a trial balloon, get feedback from priests in the field, and present that feedback to Prevost as they work out a deal in the smoke-filled back rooms.  There will be no consecration without Prevost being involved.  This is all Kayfabe.

    What will eventually happen is that they'll work out a deal, but the approved consecrands will turn out in retrospect to have been infiltrators and/or the most liberal you can find among native SSPX, and Prevost isn't going to let SSPX just accidentallly consecrate someone that might be a problem for them, someone like a Bishop Williamson.  I'm sure it'll be someone like the Arch-Modernist Heretic Fr. Paul Robinson for the English speaking areas.

    By playing this game, also, Pagliarani satisfies the more conservative elements of SSPX by signalling that he had been WILLING to go it alone, giving the appearances of Fr. Pagliarani being fiercely independent from the Conciliar Vatican, and not just cutting a deal, whereas this deal and this "show" has already been pre-scripted.

    "Hey, how about if I announced that we'll do the consecrations with or without a papal mandate.  That will appease the more conservative types who might suspect that I'm a collaborator, but then we'll work out a 'deal' in the end to avoid alienating the more liberal types, and we'll make sure the chosen live up to Conciliar standards."


    Offline ihsv

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    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline Mr G

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    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #124 on: Yesterday at 02:06:38 PM »
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  • Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith:

    Statement regarding the meeting between the Prefect and the Superior General of the SSPX (in Italian)

    Working English translation by Diane Montagna (via X)


    Looks like they agreed to postpone the Consecrations !!! Unbelievable !!!

    But it's really truce...;)

    French Translation from Italian here, if you would like additional reference -- Français ici:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-library/le-12-fevrier-2026-ad-communique-du-vatican-card-fernandez-re-fsspx-pagliar/msg1016554/?topicseen#msg1016554

    The measure of love is to love without measure.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #125 on: Yesterday at 02:08:51 PM »
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  • KAYFABE ... all of it, WWE style.

    Offline Michelle

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #126 on: Yesterday at 04:43:37 PM »
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  • Does the current SSPX believe Archbishop Lefebvre was wrong to declare "Rome is in Apostasy"?  Why are they pretending that 60 years of apostates occupying the physical structures have somehow produced legitimate authorities?  
    Baltimore catechism 2 question 136.
    What is the Church? The Church is the congregation of all baptized persons united in the same true faith, the same sacrifice, and the same sacraments, under the authority of the Sovereign Pontiff and the bishops in communion with him.
    The Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, It's Head-Christ, It's members-The faithful, It's soul- The Holy Spirit, It's life- grace. 

    The Vatican ll religion does not fit this description nor do we find the 4 marks of the Church in it.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #127 on: Yesterday at 04:48:47 PM »
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  • Does the current SSPX believe Archbishop Lefebvre was wrong to declare "Rome is in Apostasy"?

    Certainly they must as +Fellay said that Vatican II is 95% Catholic, so error about some 5% would hardly constitute an apostasy.


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #128 on: Yesterday at 05:59:50 PM »
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  • It's just as Bishop Stobnicki stated at the outset:

    The group holding power in the SSPX have decided to stage a drama, unfortunately not a good Shakespearean play, but a poor play by Fernandez. They will follow two narratives: one for liberals, the other for hardliners. Unfortunately, nothing has changed for many years – secret meetings with the Roman hierarchy and the search for a practical agreement without doctrinal agreement.

    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #129 on: Today at 01:12:18 AM »
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  • KAYFABE ... all of it, WWE style.
    I'm sorry to go off topic but I've seen the term kayfabe used here several times and wasn't sure if there was a meaning to it outside of pro wrestling. I've been a fan of wrestling since I was a kid so I'm very familiar with the term "kayfabe" in wrestling which basically means the act of pretending that everything that goes on is real when of course its staged. I guess I can confirm you did mean it that way lol.  
    St. Joseph Terror of Demons, pray for us! 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #130 on: Today at 07:02:12 AM »
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  • I'm sorry to go off topic but I've seen the term kayfabe used here several times and wasn't sure if there was a meaning to it outside of pro wrestling. I've been a fan of wrestling since I was a kid so I'm very familiar with the term "kayfabe" in wrestling which basically means the act of pretending that everything that goes on is real when of course its staged. I guess I can confirm you did mean it that way lol. 

    It's becoming very widely applied outside of wrestling to indicate any kind of public spectacle involving a pretense of opposition between two groups.  Often it's used to describe how in public the Republicans and Democrats appear to be at war, but then they're really all on the same team, simply playing different public roles.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #131 on: Today at 07:04:35 AM »
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  • It's just as Bishop Stobnicki stated at the outset:

    The group holding power in the SSPX have decided to stage a drama, unfortunately not a good Shakespearean play, but a poor play by Fernandez. They will follow two narratives: one for liberals, the other for hardliners. Unfortunately, nothing has changed for many years – secret meetings with the Roman hierarchy and the search for a practical agreement without doctrinal agreement.

    I couldn't agree more.  They've already pre-scripted how this will turn out.  Governments do this all the time, and the SSPX "leadership" have come more politicians than defenders of the faith.  It happened during the last Iran-Israel conflict.  At some point Israel needed out, since Iran were clobbering them, but Israel couldn't just back down and admit defeat and weakness, so they pre-arranged from Trump to come in and "twist" Netanyahu's arm into agreeing (reluctantly) to a truce ... when it Bibi was in fact begging for Trump to come in and save them in such a way as to not make Netanyahu and Bibi look weak.  Israel declared victory, lying about the extent of the damage, claiming that only a single Arab goat-herder got hit by Iranian missiles, and that the only reason Israel backed down was because Trump applied strong pressure, not that they were getting their butts kicked.

    Rome will acknowledge that Fr. Pagliarani needs to give the impreession of being a "strong man" ... for the internal consumption of the public, since he needs to be in a position to lead the SSPX to where they both have agreed long ago that it should.  If you undermine Fr. Pagliarani's authority, or perception of authority, or credibility, then you're actually crippling his ability to get the job done of bringing SSPX back into the fold.

    At a time they deem opportune, there will be a deal (in reality behind closed doors there's already a deal), where Rome will give permission for certain select individuals to be consecrated, all in the interests of "mercy" and to show how good and wonderful they are, but just as a concession to prevent "schism" (and the question will be begged that had SSPX gone forward it would have been schism).  In the meantime, Fr. Pagliarani gives the impression to the more conservative elements within SSPX of being a strong man and not having compromised, of having gotten Rome to give in, where he would have gone ahead without permission had it been necessary.  So they'll appease the growing liberal / Motarian wing of SSPX and at the same time throw a bone to the conservatives that this was no "compromise" but was actually Rome giving in to strongman Fr. Pagliarani.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #132 on: Today at 07:12:28 AM »
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  • ... Rome will give permission for certain select individuals to be consecrated ...

    and we all know that the approved list will be the worst of the worst that can be dredged up from within SSPX.  I expect a Bishop Paul Robinson for instance, and some of the Modernist Frogs from overseas, probably a few active card-carrying members of Lavender Mafia as well.

    That reminds me of when the Commie official in Poland hand-picked Wojtyla by name to become Bishop of Krakow.  "I will only have Wojtyla."  Can't imagine why.

    Offline Todd The Trad

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #133 on: Today at 09:02:09 AM »
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  • It's becoming very widely applied outside of wrestling to indicate any kind of public spectacle involving a pretense of opposition between two groups.  Often it's used to describe how in public the Republicans and Democrats appear to be at war, but then they're really all on the same team, simply playing different public roles.
    Very interesting. I didn't know this. Thanks.
    St. Joseph Terror of Demons, pray for us! 

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX consecrations announced
    « Reply #134 on: Today at 01:36:22 PM »
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  • Very interesting. I didn't know this. Thanks.

    Yes, they've been applying it to the Uniparty in Washington where they all pretend to be fighting in public but are best buddies outside of those performances.