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Author Topic: SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors  (Read 21032 times)

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Offline Matthew

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SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
« Reply #75 on: July 06, 2016, 06:06:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: bishopcharriere
    Quote from: nctradcath
    My problem with these traditional Catholic news sources" is the manifest lies that they tell in their articles. I find it incredibly irritating when they try to explain away the plain meaning of what a person said whether it be Frankie or Bishop Fellay. It is condescending and a lie that will have to be answered for in confession and penance or before Our Lord at judgement.


    Condescending...  Like, maybe calling the Holy Father "Frankie"?


    I don't agree with this neo-SSPX stooge "bishopcharriere" about the SSPX and the Resistance, but I do agree with him on this point.

    How can you talk about condescension in the same short paragraph you refer to Pope Francis as "Frankie"?

    You've been reading too much Traditio. See why I don't like that site?

    You give the Resistance a bad name in this matter. Superficial readers of CathInfo will pounce on your post and consider it "the average" or typical of what is found here -- even though it's almost unique because of its disrespect for the Pope.

    A man who is clearly OK with the neo-SSPX (just look at his other 3 posts and his whole account) just got a thumbs up (so far) on the oldest and original Resistance forum -- because of your indiscretion here.

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    Offline bishopcharriere

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    « Reply #76 on: July 06, 2016, 06:18:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: bishopcharriere
    Quote from: nctradcath
    My problem with these traditional Catholic news sources" is the manifest lies that they tell in their articles. I find it incredibly irritating when they try to explain away the plain meaning of what a person said whether it be Frankie or Bishop Fellay. It is condescending and a lie that will have to be answered for in confession and penance or before Our Lord at judgement.


    Condescending...  Like, maybe calling the Holy Father "Frankie"?


    I don't agree with this neo-SSPX stooge "bishopcharriere" about the SSPX and the Resistance, but I do agree with him on this point.



    "Stooge"?  Charity is hard at work in this thread.


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #77 on: July 06, 2016, 06:25:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: bishopcharriere

    "Stooge"?  Charity is hard at work in this thread.


    Yes, it certainly is. I am practicing the spiritual work of mercy, "Instruct the ignorant".

    Charity doesn't mean you can't criticize someone. "Stooge" is hardly a swear word proving the absence of charity.

    I consider you a "useful tool" of the neo-SSPX. I believe you are Catholic, I have no idea of the state of your soul, but I do know with certainty that you are wrong about the Resistance and the neo-SSPX.

    I am allowed to criticize those in error on my own forum, within the bounds of Catholic charity.
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    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #78 on: July 06, 2016, 07:17:25 PM »
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  • I don't have time for hecklers and trolls.

    "bishopcharriere" has been banned.

    And he needs to look in the mirror regarding the "objective vs. subjective" truth issue.

    Actually, here's the thing --

    God hasn't revealed who is "objectively correct" about how to deal with the Crisis in the Church.

    It could be the Resistance
    It could be the sedevacantists
    and moving on to the ones that aren't likely at all...
    It could be the home aloners
    It could be the Indult

    But it *couldn't* be the neo-SSPX. At least they couldn't have been correct for all the years from 1970 - 2016.

    Why am I so certain of that?

    Because they contradict themselves! How could the neo-SSPX be the correct position, when their own position has changed over the years! They have no coherent position.
    The neo-SSPX, back when it was the SSPX, defended the consecration of 4 bishops illicitly by Archbishop Lefebvre without the permission of Rome.

    But today, as the neo-SSPX, they condemn the same kinds of emergency "for the sake of Tradition" episcopal consecrations, under the same circuмstances. For example, the consecrations of Bishop Faure and Bishop Thomas Aquinas.

    So even if they were objectively correct today (because, for the sake of argument, we're going to assume that the Indult/approved by Rome route is "God's own choice" for what we should do in this Crisis), they were wrong from 1970 - 2012.

    And here's the clincher -- since they haven't repented of their "wicked schismatic past", they wouldn't be in the right today either! You can't just jump over to the "correct" position without any announcements, penance, repentance, or restitution for your past sins/mistakes.

    So even if they were objectively correct today, they are still "in the wrong" because they haven't even publicly confessed their past guilt, much less made up for it yet. On the contrary, they continue to pay half-hearted lip service to Archbishop Lefebvre and the old SSPX.

    They are like Judas: Considered lousy by the Jєωs (for being so close to Jesus Christ) and a lousy Apostle (for betraying the Master). The SSPX is a lousy Trad group (for making so many compromises) and a lousy Indult group (for failing to criticize their own "schismatic" past).

    The neo-SSPX is like a hypothetical Android tablet produced by Apple. The Android lovers hate it because it's so expensive and produced by Apple, and the Apple lovers hate it because it runs the "inferior" Android OS.

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #79 on: July 06, 2016, 08:39:25 PM »
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  • Quote

    The neo-SSPX is like a hypothetical Android tablet produced by Apple.


    Finally, language today's youth can understand.

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    Offline St Ignatius

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    « Reply #80 on: July 06, 2016, 09:04:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote

    The neo-SSPX is like a hypothetical Android tablet produced by Apple.


    Finally, language today's youth can understand.



    Pretty stinken sad, isn't it?   But what's sadder  is I'm beginning to understand this lingo! :tinfoil:

    Offline mw2016

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    « Reply #81 on: July 06, 2016, 09:16:51 PM »
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  • Fr. Morrison often has good moles. I hope this story is true:

    Quote
    Bernie Fellay, the Neo-SSPX's Clueless Superior Dictator Was Slapped down by His Remaining Regional and National Superiors Meeting at Econe, Switzerland, June 25-28, 2016

    Fellay Was Forced to Pull back from His Expansionistic Desires And to State the Unthinkable (for Him) The Fact that All Traditional Catholics Clearly See That Francis-Bergoglio Is Teaching Errors And that Nothing Can Happen while the Marxist Bergoglio Remains Newpope

    It happened once before when the Neo-SSPX's Superior-Dictator Bernie Fellay got too full of himself and his desire to join the anti-Catholic Newchurch of the New Order. When Fellay went too far to Newchurch under Benedict-Ratzinger's regime, the Neo-SSPX superiors met in northern Italy and gave Fellay a vote of no confidence, telling him in no uncertain terms that he had no authority from them to sell out the Neo-SSPX to Newchurch. They also demanded to see all the docuмents that he was secretly exchanging with Ratzinger, which Fellay had previously withheld from his own superiors and from the NSSPXers at large.

    Now the remaining Neo-SSPX superiors (one-sixth of them have already abandoned him) meeting in Econe, Switzerland, June 25-28, 2016, have repeated their vote of no-confidence in Fellay. As a result, Fellay issued a brief communique that tried desperately to put favorable light on the matter. But make no mistake: the remaining Neo-SSPX Regional and National Superiors have once again slapped Fellay down.

    It may be that one of the factors that contributed to this courageous action on the part of the Neo-SSPX Regional and National superiors was the addition of two new exemplary traditional Catholic bishops recently consecrated by the original SSPX's senior bishop, Richard Williamson. The loose association of traditional Catholic clergy known as the Traditional Resistance now has three traditional Catholic bishops: Williamson, Jean-Michel Faure and Dom Tomas Aquinas, O.S.B.

    Fellay now has, in addition to himself, only two bishops remaining, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais and Alfonso de Galarreta.

    Fellay's communique indicates that Fellay has been forced to pull back from his expansionistic desires and reaffirms that the central purpose of the Neo-SSPX is to ordain priests. Fellay was actually forced to do the unthinkable (for him): to state the obvious fact that all traditional Catholics already see, that Newpope Francis-Bergoglio is teaching errors. Fellay was even forced to abjure "canonical recognition" by the anti-Catholic Newchurch of the New Order. Fellay was also forced to abjure Francis-Bergoglio, when he stated that nothing can happen while the Marxist Bergoglio remains Newpope, because he is against Sacred Tradition. Thus, the Neo-SSPX must wait for better days, which at this rate may be very long in coming.

    True Catholics, this slap-down of Fellay is quite remarkable. He is currently trying to pick up the pieces of his New Order ambitions, which have been smashed to smithereens by his own superiors. But Fellay, like the hated Herod Antipas, to whom Our Lord referred as "that vixen," using a play on words that alluded to Herod's ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, is not one to give up easily his ambitions to become a Newchurch prelate, which he has harbored since at least the year 2000. There will be much more to this story. And the TRADITIO Network, as it has done now for over twenty years, will bring you the independent coverage for which it has been noted around the world since its inception in 1994 as the "First Traditional Roman Catholic Internet Site" and as the "Independent Voice of Traditional Roman Catholicism."



     :popcorn:

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #82 on: July 06, 2016, 09:31:17 PM »
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  • Quote

    But Fellay, like the hated Herod Antipas, to whom Our Lord referred as "that vixen," using a play on words that alluded to Herod's ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, is not one to give up easily his ambitions to become a Newchurch prelate, which he has harbored since at least the year 2000.


    "At least the year 2000" is an understatement.  I heard him in person in 1995 say that the advent of regularization is like a "luscious plum" to him, and only later did I realize he may have been unintentionally describing the forbidden fruit of the Garden of Eden.

    .
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    Offline mw2016

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    « Reply #83 on: July 07, 2016, 02:26:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote

    But Fellay, like the hated Herod Antipas, to whom Our Lord referred as "that vixen," using a play on words that alluded to Herod's ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, is not one to give up easily his ambitions to become a Newchurch prelate, which he has harbored since at least the year 2000.


    "At least the year 2000" is an understatement.  I heard him in person in 1995 say that the advent of regularization is like a "luscious plum" to him, and only later did I realize he may have been unintentionally describing the forbidden fruit of the Garden of Eden.

    .


    Meaning he wants to eat it, but he knows that eating it will result in death??

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #84 on: July 07, 2016, 02:49:26 PM »
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  • The rumor I heard was that the other 2 bishops shot down Bishop Fellay's Roman compromise proposal.

    That I could believe. After all, Rome isn't going to let +Fellay stay in power, much less have THREE bishops in charge of the new, regularized SSPX. In the eyes of +Fellay, if the other two bishops leave, that would be acceptable collateral damage.

    The Traditio "news item" is much less believable. If we are to believe Traditio, then all is well with the SSPX!  A miracle has occurred, and our prayers have been answered! It's just Bishop Fellay and a few others that have gone off course. Everyone else is 100% Archbishop Lefebvre, on board the fight for Tradition, knowing exactly why we're here and what we're doing. So give it a few months, and the four year nightmare will be completely over! Before long, I'll be back at my local SSPX chapel like nothing happened!

    ...yeah right.

    The above rosy scenario completely contradicts all reality and everything I've experienced -- both from reports I've heard (personal e-mails, phone calls, forums, websites), as well as in person at my local chapel, and San Antonio is one of the "good" (average/conservative) ones!


    But let's analyze this Traditio report objectively.

    He claims the "superiors" slapped down +Fellay and his plan. But how could that be? Most of those who attended were personally chosen and placed in power by +Fellay (and his 2 right-hand men)!

    Who is part of the General Chapter?

    From the SSPX website:
    Quote
    The General Chapter is composed of 40 people designated by their “office,” that is to say, their function in the Society’s work. By office they are the standing Superior General and his two assistants, the bishops, the former superior generals, the Secretary General and the Bursar General, the district superiors, the rectors of the major seminaries, and the superiors of the autonomous houses. It also includes in its number the most senior priests who do not hold the above mentioned charges or offices in number equal to one-third of the number of members by office. These Chapter attendees are called “capitularies”.


    So 30 of the members are those placed in power by +Fellay.
    10 members are there based purely on their seniority, who MAY or MAY NOT be behind +Fellay in his compromising ways.

    Remember, this same General Chapter kicked +Williamson to the curb a few years ago. So they're not exactly "conservative SSPX"!
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    Offline MaterDominici

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    « Reply #85 on: July 07, 2016, 04:32:21 PM »
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  • If the district superiors were against Bp Fellay, the priests would be able to freely speak their minds without being threatened and reassigned. As it is now, warning the faithful of the dangers of a deal with Rome is not something the priests are allowed to do... see Fr. Roy's letter for proof.

    I think there might have been specific details that inclined them away from Rome's offer, but I don't believe the superiors are altogether against the idea.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson


    Offline Raphaela

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    « Reply #86 on: July 07, 2016, 06:16:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: Graham
    Quote from: snowball
    Fr. Girouard's email mentions a Rothschild donation, but was it not
    the Gutmanns who donated ? Here is a link to the story:
    http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-rothschild-gutmann-money-behind.html

    He is probably inferring that the Gutmann donation was ultimately a Rothschild directive.

    What nonsense. Mrs Gutmann was from a convert family and a supporter of Archbishop Lefebvre from the early days of the Society. Nothing to do with the Rothschilds.

    Offline BluePanel

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    « Reply #87 on: July 09, 2016, 06:26:17 PM »
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  • Did +Williamson comment on this?

    Offline Mark 79

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    « Reply #88 on: July 09, 2016, 07:30:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Raphaela
    Quote from: Graham
    Quote from: snowball
    Fr. Girouard's email mentions a Rothschild donation, but was it not
    the Gutmanns who donated ? Here is a link to the story:
    http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-rothschild-gutmann-money-behind.html

    He is probably inferring that the Gutmann donation was ultimately a Rothschild directive.

    What nonsense. Mrs Gutmann was from a convert family and a supporter of Archbishop Lefebvre from the early days of the Society. Nothing to do with the Rothschilds.


    The Rothschild-Gutmann Money Behind the SSPX Kosher Imperative
    http://mauricepinay.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-rothschild-gutmann-money-behind.html

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    « Reply #89 on: July 09, 2016, 09:18:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: mw2016
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote

    But Fellay, like the hated Herod Antipas, to whom Our Lord referred as "that vixen," using a play on words that alluded to Herod's ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, is not one to give up easily his ambitions to become a Newchurch prelate, which he has harbored since at least the year 2000


    "At least the year 2000" is an understatement.  I heard him in person in 1995 say that the advent of regularization is like a "luscious plum" to him, and only later did I realize he may have been unintentionally describing the forbidden fruit of the Garden of Eden.


    Meaning he wants to eat it, but he knows that eating it will result in death??


    I saw him standing there and cupping his hands with his fingers pointing upwards as he slowly and deliberately said "luscious plum." What kind of imagery is that supposed to evoke in the listener if not what I'm referring to? When Eve took the forbidden fruit was she primarily thinking about the DEATH aspect, or was she swooning over the temptation being proffered, something otherwise unobtainable -- for her it was knowledge and "to be like God," but for +Fellay, the attraction is Ordinary Jurisdiction.
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