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Author Topic: SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors  (Read 22484 times)

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Offline covet truth

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SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2016, 10:42:51 AM »
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  • I'm not sure what to think.  On the surface it appears to be "one step back" but that is usually followed by "two steps forward".  We'll have to watch and see what actions proceed from this.  After all of the efforts on the part of the Superiors to sell the "must return to Rome" to the laity this seems to contradict their sales pitch.  

    Offline St Ignatius

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #16 on: June 29, 2016, 10:50:15 AM »
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  • Could it be possible that the recent departure of Fr. Pierre Roy, who was born and raised under the care of the "New" SSPX, been taken into consideration in reeling in personal ambitions?


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #17 on: June 29, 2016, 11:30:52 AM »
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  • Quote from: compline


    In the great and painful confusion that currently reigns in the Church, the proclamation of Catholic doctrine requires the denunciation of errors that have made their way into it and are unfortunately encouraged by a large number of pastors, including the Pope himself.

    ... bi-millennial Tradition which shows the only route to follow in this age of darkness in which the cult of man replaces the worship of God, in society as in the Church.


    The Society of Saint Pius X prays and does penance for the Pope, that he might have the strength to proclaim Catholic faith and morals in their entirety.



    Let's see if these words hold after the conciliar authorities and publications respond to it.

    Offline Prayerful

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #18 on: June 29, 2016, 11:42:21 AM »
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  • Quote from: TheRealMcCoy
    I'm surprised that some think this communique states that all negotiations are off until the Pope converts.  I think it says the opposite.  But I could be wrong.


    It is concerning when a statement can give rise to two completely different, arguably plausible interpretations, but I take as 'no deal for now.'

    Offline covet truth

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #19 on: June 29, 2016, 11:44:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: SanAmbrosi


    I just saw on Facebook someone call this Communique a "death blow to the Resistors."  

    Thoughts?  
     


    It won't affect the die-hard resistors but the fence sitters will use it to justify staying with the SSPX.  The former have learned not to trust whatever comes from the top while the latter don't want to know.  


    Offline Matthew

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #20 on: June 29, 2016, 12:01:41 PM »
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  • 1. If he had been on truth serum, he would have added, "In the meantime, we'll keep teaching Canon Law in English (instead of Latin) and constantly cross-referencing the New 1983 Code. And we certainly won't do anything "extreme" and continue to do our best to maintain a good brand image with the public. And I still thank God we expelled +Williamson, since he is controversial and being associated with him would prevent a future deal with Rome."

    2. Recall that Bishop Fellay is first and foremost a politician. That includes making awesome campaign promises, and keeping his constituents happy. If he didn't say things that sounded great once in a while, he would not be a successful politician. Politicians speak out of both sides of their mouth.

    3. Am I the only one that feels deja-vu with this communique? He has released "completely Trad sounding" docuмents like this several times over the past 4 years, each of which made it sounds like he was giving up on a practical accord with Rome, and that the Resistance might as well pack it in (more on this later, read on).  But it's never over, unfortunately. As much as we'd like this nightmare to be over so we can all go back to our old SSPX chapels with nothing different from, say, 1995. But the quest for a Practical Accord continues, and that is the important part.

    4. Why did they release this communique? Well, it should be obvious once you read a quote from Knish, "is there any part of you that feels maybe -- just maybe -- the resistance was wrong about Bishop Fellay?" and a quote on Facebook, which called this communique "a death blow to the resisters". That is precisely what we're all meant to think here. The strong minded and well-informed know better. But as for the busy, the superficial, the ignorant, and the poorly informed, they might just take the bait -- hook, line and sinker.

    5. Perhaps too much backlash has arisen in Rome (or with the current Pope) to complete a Deal, and so +Fellay wants to get as much mileage out of "giving up for now" as possible. He'll turn this into a dramatic, political move of one big step taken backwards, with all the cameras rolling, so he can squeeze every bit of political juice he can out of the situation. Moreover, this is typical Bishop Fellay behavior: one step backwards, then two steps forward. He makes sure everyone pays attention to those steps backwards, while keeping the steps forward as obscure and shrouded in secrecy as possible. This gives the average Catholic in the pews the impression that he's swimming in pure Tradition.

    6. Related to #3, we have to remember that the neo-SSPX continues as the neo-SSPX. They still keep a low profile, they still keep things "positive", they still do many things differently than the old SSPX. They still stand in horror at the prospect of a Bishop consecrating new Bishops for Tradition without papal approval (Does that sound like followers of +Lefebvre to you?). That is a fact. That is how the SSPX reacted to the consecrations of +Faure and +Thomas Aquinas.

    7. Of course the SSPX likes Tradition (Truth) somewhat, whenever they get a chance. Remember the FSSP likes Tradition as well. But their FIRST love is Numbers. As I've said before, you can't primarily love Truth and Numbers. Either you put Truth first which will cost you some Numbers on occasion, or Numbers first which costs you some Truth on occasion. You can try to love both, but you can't give FIRST PRIORITY to both.

    8. Some excerpts from this communique seem to be giving up on a deal with Rome, mentioning the current Pope in particular. But how long will Pope Francis be Pope? Especially in the current order, where papal resignations are a distinct possibility. Hasn't Pope Francis explicitly stated that resignation is an option for him? These recent post-Vatican II popes don't consider death to be the only way to set aside the Papacy. And haven't there been rumors that Pope Francis will resign in the not too distant future?

    9. Also recall that this meeting was *seriously* leaked. Everyone knew about it, even the exact dates and location for the meeting. So Bishop Fellay knew everyone was watching and wondering what was going on. The Resistance drew everyone's attention to this meeting, what else was he going to do? Saying nothing wouldn't be an option, then it makes the Resistance score points, "See? They're acting like Bilderburgers having a secret meeting." Instead, +Fellay is cleverly trying to exploit all the attention cast on him, to make another ostentatious obeisance/homage to Tradition, and make the Resistance look BAD. What a politician.

    10. Since this communique didn't mention anything substantial suggesting a move backwards towards Tradition, for example no apology was made to Bishop Williamson, I can safely say the Crisis in the SSPX continues, as does the need for the Resistance.
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    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #21 on: June 29, 2016, 12:26:41 PM »
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  • Excellent points Matthew.  This communique will provide more justification for a "prayer crusade" as astutely predicted by Fr Girouard.  

    Offline snowball

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #22 on: June 29, 2016, 12:27:02 PM »
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  • The conciliar church is interpreting today's communique
    as a hard line, and I'm sure most SSPX parishoners
    are, also.
    for example:
    http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edward-pentin/sspx-retreats-from-regularization-with-rome

    Bishop Williamson's June 25th comments in closing
    suggested he may be pleasantly surprised by today's
    communique.

    "In conclusion, dear readers, for the sake of all the good that the true Society could and should be doing for the Universal Church, by all means pray for a miracle to derail that drive towards Rome, and put any pressure you can on Superiors taking part in the end of June meeting (not yet a General Chapter, but preparing the fatal one) that they make themselves the instruments of God in the derailing of that drive."



    Offline St Ignatius

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #23 on: June 29, 2016, 12:29:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew

    10. Since this communique didn't mention anything substantial suggesting a move backwards towards Tradition, for example no apology was made to Bishop Williamson, I can safely say the Crisis in the SSPX continues, as does the need for the Resistance.


    Or most importantly, IMO, no retraction of the declaration of 2012.

    So business as usual.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    « Reply #24 on: June 29, 2016, 12:38:30 PM »
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  • Quote
    Moreover, this is typical Bishop Fellay behavior: one step backwards, then two steps forward. He makes sure everyone pays attention to those steps backwards, while keeping the steps forward as obscure and shrouded in secrecy as possible.


    Exactly!  Political manuevering at it's finest.

    Offline mw2016

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #25 on: June 29, 2016, 01:30:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: knish
    is there any part of you that feels maybe -- just maybe -- the resistance was wrong about Bishop Fellay?


    This may be the MOST absurd statement I've ever read here!

    We are in the situation we're in PRECISELY because of Bp. Fellay's WRONG actions. His poor leadership. His bad judgment.

    Bp. Fellay had a mutiny on HIS watch. He lost MANY good priests.

    He has lost, and CONTINUES TO LOSE, many, many faithful.

    He has taken a wrecking ball to the SSPX with his poor decisions.

    Now, he makes a weak - at best! - statement that may or may not hint that the deal may or may not take place, and you think to ask if the Resistance was wrong about him??

    Absurd. Utterly absurd.


    Offline wallflower

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #26 on: June 29, 2016, 01:31:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: snowball
    "In conclusion, dear readers, for the sake of all the good that the true Society could and should be doing for the Universal Church, by all means pray for a miracle to derail that drive towards Rome, and put any pressure you can on Superiors taking part in the end of June meeting (not yet a General Chapter, but preparing the fatal one) that they make themselves the instruments of God in the derailing of that drive."



    Exactly why and how Providence is at work but not in the way +Fellay thinks it is.

    That's something I find so strange about the workings of some people's minds. The avid anti-Resistance crowd sit there accepting and parroting all manner of rationalizations from certain leadership about why we have to accept a practical accord, why it would be a good thing and why now is the best time, why Abp Lefevbre would have done it etc..., but then have an I-told-you-so attitude towards the Resistance when the SSPX leadership flips again and seems (on the surface anyway) like it won't make an accord.

    Do they not realize that if the SSPX does not make a purely practical accord (at least, right this second), it is no thanks to them? Their attitude does not correspond with their actions at all. If they were logical, people like this should be unhappy by a seeming return to hardline principles because just yesterday they were convinced of the necessity of a practical accord. Or they ought at least to be confused about why an accord was so strongly sold to them in the first place. It makes no sense to be crowing to the Resistance as if they had anything to do with the victory. They are blindly following persons rather than principles.

    And those crowing because they thought the SSPX leadership were never aiming to make a practical accord in the first place simply haven't been following or listening to the sermons and conferences of late. There's no cure for that either.


     


    Offline snowball

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #27 on: June 29, 2016, 01:33:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: St Ignatius
    Quote from: Matthew

    10. Since this communique didn't mention anything substantial suggesting a move backwards towards Tradition, for example no apology was made to Bishop Williamson, I can safely say the Crisis in the SSPX continues, as does the need for the Resistance.


    Or most importantly, IMO, no retraction of the declaration of 2012.

    So business as usual.


    What is there to retract ? Would not a retraction have to be
    accompanied by a submission by Williamson ? Do you not
    agree that any hierarchy should be in place within the Society,
    and all participants should do as they please ?
    I don't see a connection between today's communique
    and the Bp. Williamson ordinations, although I await
    his comments...

    Offline mw2016

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #28 on: June 29, 2016, 01:41:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    1. If he had been on truth serum, he would have added, "In the meantime, we'll keep teaching Canon Law in English (instead of Latin) and constantly cross-referencing the New 1983 Code. And we certainly won't do anything "extreme" and continue to do our best to maintain a good brand image with the public. And I still thank God we expelled +Williamson, since he is controversial and being associated with him would prevent a future deal with Rome."




    Yes.

    The priests in Phoenix are totally neutered - never a single word against any of Bergoglio's atrocities against the Faith. Not a single word.


    Offline St Ignatius

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    SSPX Communique after meeting of all Superiors
    « Reply #29 on: June 29, 2016, 01:44:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: snowball
    Quote from: St Ignatius
    Quote from: Matthew

    10. Since this communique didn't mention anything substantial suggesting a move backwards towards Tradition, for example no apology was made to Bishop Williamson, I can safely say the Crisis in the SSPX continues, as does the need for the Resistance.


    Or most importantly, IMO, no retraction of the declaration of 2012.

    So business as usual.


    What is there to retract ? Would not a retraction have to be
    accompanied by a submission by Williamson ? Do you not
    agree that any hierarchy should be in place within the Society,
    and all participants should do as they please ?
    I don't see a connection between today's communique
    and the Bp. Williamson ordinations, although I await
    his comments...


    I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you are asking.