Author Topic: SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans  (Read 7108 times)

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Offline Marlelar

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SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
« on: May 18, 2014, 05:58:35 PM »
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  • My jaw dropped at Mass this morning.  Father Riccomini was talking about our building debt.  The parish had to borrow money from the Society and it is being paid back WITH INTEREST !

    INTEREST?  REALLY?  The Society charges it own :really-mad2: interest on building loans?????

    I would expect Wells Fargo or B of A to charge interest but the SSPX charges the SSPX to borrow money to complete its own building project?  
     
    Disgraceful.

     :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2:

    Marsha

    Offline JMacQ

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #1 on: May 18, 2014, 06:24:39 PM »
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  • How much money are we talking about? And for how long? And at what rate of interest?  If it is a large sum, it would be fair that some interest is paid. Otherwise the capital, once reimbursed, will not have its original purchasing value. A very close and very dear family member borrowed a considerable sum from us. After five years, no money, no contact. I should have listen to my wife.
    O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
    Praised be Jesus ad Mary!

    "Is minic a gheibhean beal oscailt diog dunta"


    Offline curioustrad

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #2 on: May 18, 2014, 06:53:41 PM »
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  • Actually loans from Dioceses to parishes almost always require interest to be repaid for the reason adduced above.

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #3 on: May 18, 2014, 07:27:51 PM »
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  • Marlelar,

    I Know from SSPX coordinators that the SSPX has long been loaning money to buy churches or to purchase additional buildings so they can own the property upfront, but the faithful has to pay back at “very low interest” (I didn’t ask details). Since the Resistance begun, they have been trying to get those loans paid as fast as possible. They want to own the property but not pay for it. That is the reason they have always afforded to dump any property at the drop of a hat wherever their “pray, pay & obey” policy fails.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Frances

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #4 on: May 18, 2014, 08:05:47 PM »
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  •  :thinking: :dancing-banana:  
    And if the declining numbers don't pay up?  The diocese would love to expand the monstrosity of the "Catholic Community" adjacent to the SSPX.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline John Steven

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #5 on: May 18, 2014, 08:23:54 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar
    My jaw dropped at Mass this morning.  Father Riccomini was talking about our building debt.  The parish had to borrow money from the Society and it is being paid back WITH INTEREST !

    INTEREST?  REALLY?  The Society charges it own :really-mad2: interest on building loans?????

    I would expect Wells Fargo or B of A to charge interest but the SSPX charges the SSPX to borrow money to complete its own building project?  
     
    Disgraceful.

     :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2: :really-mad2:

    Marsha


    I think this needs to be clarified with someone in the SSPX management. Our local SSPX chapel has begun a fundraising campaign to build a new school and church and they may have to borrow some money as well. The priest here told me that the SSPX has its own internal banking system where they pool money together from all the different chapels and loan it out to where it is needed without usury. This would seem to contradict what you have just heard.  :scratchchin:


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #6 on: May 18, 2014, 09:15:32 PM »
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  • Leaving aside the fact that the Church has not yet defined precisely what constitutes "usury" (and therefore to accuse the SSPX of practicing it in regard to internal chapel loans is premature to say the least), the following work of Fr. Denis Fahey is available in entirety online, and provides a good foundational introduction to the principles involved in the matter:

    http://www.liberius.net/livres/Money_manipulation_and_social_order_000000317.pdf
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline hugeman

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #7 on: May 18, 2014, 09:35:52 PM »
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  •      It is wrong, and  a jewish banking scheme, to charge interest to a Catholic church or chapel. In fact, the entire jewish banking scheme is immoral-- and interest should never be charged. Maybe SSPX priests should read some of the seventh and eigth grade readers that its students (should be ) read (ing).

       The Hebrew word for interest  is neshekh, which means, closely, "a bite", as , "to loan money to the goy and take a bite out of him."  Read Father Charles E. Coughlin's excellent book "Money, Questions and Answers" or his
    "Suicide of Capitalism."

       Christ's parable was NOT to instruct Christians to loan money to each other, and thereby derive an income from the money; it was to invest the money in capital, which improved commerce or business, and thereby returned a value for the investor.

        This money-loaning scheme, which the SSPX uses all over,  is part and parcel of the SSPX' drive for more and more money at any cost-- build up the buildings, water down the faith so anybody will enter, then exact the principal with interest from the faithful. ( Contrast this with the old SSPX which advised against going into debt!). This reported scheme is likely the arrangement which Krah and the jewish Rothschild group made with Fellay and Co. to build the new taj mahal seminary-- now they need to accept Vatican II and all its errors; so as to get the seminary rooms full of novus ordo boys--with their parents  and/ or the novus ordo bishops paying the bills.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #8 on: May 18, 2014, 09:42:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: hugeman
        It is wrong, and  a jewish banking scheme, to charge interest to a Catholic church or chapel. In fact, the entire jewish banking scheme is immoral-- and interest should never be charged. Maybe SSPX priests should read some of the seventh and eigth grade readers that its students (should be ) read (ing).

       The Hebrew word for interest  is neshekh, which means, closely, "a bite", as , "to loan money to the goy and take a bite out of him."  Read Father Charles E. Coughlin's excellent book "Money, Questions and Answers" or his
    "Suicide of Capitalism."

       Christ's parable was NOT to instruct Christians to loan money to each other, and thereby derive an income from the money; it was to invest the money in capital, which improved commerce or business, and thereby returned a value for the investor.

        This money-loaning scheme, which the SSPX uses all over,  is part and parcel of the SSPX' drive for more and more money at any cost-- build up the buildings, water down the faith so anybody will enter, then exact the principal with interest from the faithful. ( Contrast this with the old SSPX which advised against going into debt!). This reported scheme is likely the arrangement which Krah and the jewish Rothschild group made with Fellay and Co. to build the new taj mahal seminary-- now they need to accept Vatican II and all its errors; so as to get the seminary rooms full of novus ordo boys--with their parents  and/ or the novus ordo bishops paying the bills.


    Quite the grave accusation you are making, and completely irresponsible.

    Do you have any idea how long the SSPX has been making chapel loans?
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline hugeman

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #9 on: May 18, 2014, 09:47:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: hugeman
        It is wrong, and  a jewish banking scheme, to charge interest to a Catholic church or chapel. In fact, the entire jewish banking scheme is immoral-- and interest should never be charged. Maybe SSPX priests should read some of the seventh and eigth grade readers that its students (should be ) read (ing).

       The Hebrew word for interest  is neshekh, which means, closely, "a bite", as , "to loan money to the goy and take a bite out of him."  Read Father Charles E. Coughlin's excellent book "Money, Questions and Answers" or his
    "Suicide of Capitalism."

       Christ's parable was NOT to instruct Christians to loan money to each other, and thereby derive an income from the money; it was to invest the money in capital, which improved commerce or business, and thereby returned a value for the investor.

        This money-loaning scheme, which the SSPX uses all over,  is part and parcel of the SSPX' drive for more and more money at any cost-- build up the buildings, water down the faith so anybody will enter, then exact the principal with interest from the faithful. ( Contrast this with the old SSPX which advised against going into debt!). This reported scheme is likely the arrangement which Krah and the jewish Rothschild group made with Fellay and Co. to build the new taj mahal seminary-- now they need to accept Vatican II and all its errors; so as to get the seminary rooms full of novus ordo boys--with their parents  and/ or the novus ordo bishops paying the bills.


    Quite the grave accusation you are making, and completely irresponsible.

    Do you have any idea how long the SSPX has been making chapel loans?




    Wake up and read the original post. You think Father R. was lying to the parishioners? ( I doubt it)  Or you think Rostand was mistaken, and is going to give them the money for nothing?
     

    Offline Luker

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #10 on: May 18, 2014, 09:51:20 PM »
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  • I would think that any interest that the SSPX charges on a loan to be a very small token amount like under prime rate, probably to satisfy legal requirements.  I really would find it hard to believe that they would be charging something like 6-8% on the loan and making money off of it.

    I would just ask your priest for a clarification on this before getting mad/loosing any sleep over it.  I am sure there is a reasonable explanation for this.
    Pray the Holy Rosary every day!!


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #11 on: May 18, 2014, 09:54:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: hugeman
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: hugeman
        It is wrong, and  a jewish banking scheme, to charge interest to a Catholic church or chapel. In fact, the entire jewish banking scheme is immoral-- and interest should never be charged. Maybe SSPX priests should read some of the seventh and eigth grade readers that its students (should be ) read (ing).

       The Hebrew word for interest  is neshekh, which means, closely, "a bite", as , "to loan money to the goy and take a bite out of him."  Read Father Charles E. Coughlin's excellent book "Money, Questions and Answers" or his
    "Suicide of Capitalism."

       Christ's parable was NOT to instruct Christians to loan money to each other, and thereby derive an income from the money; it was to invest the money in capital, which improved commerce or business, and thereby returned a value for the investor.

        This money-loaning scheme, which the SSPX uses all over,  is part and parcel of the SSPX' drive for more and more money at any cost-- build up the buildings, water down the faith so anybody will enter, then exact the principal with interest from the faithful. ( Contrast this with the old SSPX which advised against going into debt!). This reported scheme is likely the arrangement which Krah and the jewish Rothschild group made with Fellay and Co. to build the new taj mahal seminary-- now they need to accept Vatican II and all its errors; so as to get the seminary rooms full of novus ordo boys--with their parents  and/ or the novus ordo bishops paying the bills.


    Quite the grave accusation you are making, and completely irresponsible.

    Do you have any idea how long the SSPX has been making chapel loans?




    Wake up and read the original post. You think Father R. was lying to the parishioners? ( I doubt it)  Or you think Rostand was mistaken, and is going to give them the money for nothing?
     



    http://archives.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic_faqs__morality.htm#productiveloans

    Do you accept Belloc's distinction between "productive" and "non-productive" loans?    

    I have read and am aware of Belloc’s theory that it is licit to charge interest on a loan provided that it is productive, and that in this case it is not truly usurious.

    In my opinion, a productive loan is effectively the same thing as what is more traditionally called "extrinsic title for legitimate interest." One of the extrinsic titles that I cited (July 1998 The Angelus in "Q&A":  cf. CATHOLIC FAQ above:  "Is Usury A Sin") was human productivity. Clearly, if the money is used to help man to produce something by his work, the person who provides the funds can share (to a moderate extent) in the productivity of the work. However, it is not the money itself which is productive. That is why the payment of dividends is perfectly moral, but the question of interest is much more delicate. I must confess that I prefer not to give a blanket approval to all "productive loans," as does Hilaire Belloc. I believe that it is very easy to go from that concept to that of modern day investment, and consequently just to consider as usurious that which is speculative investment. This is not the position of St. Thomas Aquinas and of Catholic Tradition.  [Answered by Fr. Peter R. Scott]
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline Marlelar

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #12 on: May 18, 2014, 11:39:54 PM »
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  • Not being part of any finance committee (if there is one) I am certain I would not be given any detailed information about the chapel loan.

    The rate of interest does not matter to me, it is the principle of the thing.  It is the SSPX lending money, in essence, to itself since it is the Society which owns the property and then it charges itself interest which can then be put on a financial sheet somewhere as income.  It doesn't matter that it is common practice in NO circles, it smells fishy.

    I'm no expert, just another plain Jane in the pews who is becoming more and more disillusioned.  Apparently I'm not alone as the bulletin insert points out that almost 300K in pledges have evaporated.

    I have the insert that was put in our bulletin:
    Project cost 3.9M
    Cash raised by Faithful 1.4M
    SSPX loan  2.4M
    Monthly Debt Service (1.5M interest only 3 years) $9,558 month
    Monthly bldg fund (almost) 16K a month.
    179K in pledges rescinded
    127K in pledges not honored to date

    Of course the "not honored" ones could be because of unemployment, unexpected hospital bills etc and they may still get those funds.

    They should have taken the advice of Lord Polonius (Hamlet) -
    Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
    For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
    And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.

    Marsha






    Offline ggreg

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #13 on: May 19, 2014, 03:52:43 AM »
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  • 3.9 million is a lot for church.  Where is it and how many does it accommodate?

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    SSPX charging its own chapels interest on loans
    « Reply #14 on: May 19, 2014, 05:04:43 AM »
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  • The problem I have with the interest is that the faithful is paying it on their (SSPX) own property .  The loan payment should be enough. And they ONLY lend money when the deed is on their name. If it was not, I would not object to a low interest.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

     

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