Author Topic: SSPX Can Barely Save Its Own, forget about Saving the Church (Read 10373 times)

TKGS · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2012, 07:54:56 AM »

Quote from: Clint

The "strenght" of the SSPX was always a facade, just smoke and mirrors, except for a few mass centers like St. Mary's, and handfull of priests. The SSPX has Bishop Willamson, and Fr's Pfieffer's, and a few others, but outside of those few, SSPX is just a priestly association that does the Latin Mass. For 90% of the SSPX parishioners, they are lucky to just have the Latin Mass and sacraments, but to have a roaring lion, a brave priest, in their midst? Few do.

To even envision that the SSPX could have an effect on Rome is laughable. The SSPX exists as a Father does to his children, to watch over his own family, and that's it. The rest of the world just gets a good example from the family, and that is all. Anyone that thinks that the SSPX or they can change the world, is living a dream.

We've had an SSPX chapel in the greater Indianapolis area for about a year. Prior to that time, there was no SSPX presence in central Indiana at all. The chapel, however, has been in existence since the Crisis began and a few families banded together and found a priest who would give them the sacraments. During that time, the chapel, which started out in the living rooms and garages of a few parishioners, bought a building, rennovated it, made it Catholic, had a number of different priests, and continued in an independent status until the last priest announced that he was simply too old to continue being the full time pastor. The legal entity that runs the chapel decided to invite the SSPX to the chapel to take ownership and to run the chapel as an SSPX chapel.

This is my understanding of how the SSPX expands its territory. It is my understanding that the SSPX does not evangelize. It does not enter mission territory (such as is most of the United States and the world), set up a Mass center, and begin to preach conversion to the traditional Catholic faith. They enter only those locations where the Catholic faith already exists; and even then, only when they are specifically invited in to care for the sacramental needs of Catholics.

If the SSPX is unwilling to evangelize the non-Catholics and the Conciliar catholics now, why on earth does anyone think that they will evangelize the non-Catholics and Conciliar catholics after signing on to a cononical agreement with Conciliar rome? Further, the evidence seems to indicate that Bishop Fellay was willing to agree that they would cease expansion even when invited by groups of Catholics if the Conciliar bishop refused permission.

Any practical agreement with Conciliar rome before a conversion of rome to the Catholic Church will have exactly one effect. It will make the SSPX just one more traditional brand of chapel in the traditional smorgasbord available within Conciliarism. Furthermore, as Conciliar rome begins the process of assimilation of the SSPX through the sacrament of orders, the SSPX will eventually become as weak-willed and lilly-livered as the FSSP--with questionable orders as well.

I'm afraid that Clint is correct in his assessment.

Clint · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2012, 08:13:34 AM »

Quote from: TKGS

We've had an SSPX chapel in the greater Indianapolis area for about a year. Prior to that time, there was no SSPX presence in central Indiana at all. The chapel, however, has been in existence since the Crisis began and a few families banded together and found a priest who would give them the sacraments. During that time, the chapel, which started out in the living rooms and garages of a few parishioners, bought a building, rennovated it, made it Catholic, had a number of different priests, and continued in an independent status until the last priest announced that he was simply too old to continue being the full time pastor. The legal entity that runs the chapel decided to invite the SSPX to the chapel to take ownership and to run the chapel as an SSPX chapel.

This is my understanding of how the SSPX expands its territory. It is my understanding that the SSPX does not evangelize. It does not enter mission territory (such as is most of the United States and the world), set up a Mass center, and begin to preach conversion to the traditional Catholic faith. They enter only those locations where the Catholic faith already exists; and even then, only when they are specifically invited in to care for the sacramental needs of Catholics.

If the SSPX is unwilling to evangelize the non-Catholics and the Conciliar catholics now, why on earth does anyone think that they will evangelize the non-Catholics and Conciliar catholics after signing on to a cononical agreement with Conciliar rome? Further, the evidence seems to indicate that Bishop Fellay was willing to agree that they would cease expansion even when invited by groups of Catholics if the Conciliar bishop refused permission.

Any practical agreement with Conciliar rome before a conversion of rome to the Catholic Church will have exactly one effect. It will make the SSPX just one more traditional brand of chapel in the traditional smorgasbord available within Conciliarism. Furthermore, as Conciliar rome begins the process of assimilation of the SSPX through the sacrament of orders, the SSPX will eventually become as weak-willed and lilly-livered as the FSSP--with questionable orders as well.

I never considered this observation, that is exactly how they expand. Thanks for the posting. We learn something every day.

CathMomof7 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2012, 08:28:03 AM »

Quote from: Clint

The "strenght" of the SSPX was always a facade, just smoke and mirrors, except for a few mass centers like St. Mary's, and handfull of priests. The SSPX has Bishop Willamson, and Fr's Pfieffer's, and a few others, but outside of those few, SSPX is just a priestly association that does the Latin Mass. For 90% of the SSPX parishioners, they are lucky to just have the Latin Mass and sacraments, but to have a roaring lion, a brave priest, in their midst? Few do.

To even envision that the SSPX could have an effect on Rome is laughable. The SSPX exists as a Father does to his children, to watch over his own family, and that's it. The rest of the world just gets a good example from the family, and that is all. Anyone that thinks that the SSPX or they can change the world, is living a dream.

Clint,

Although I think this is harsh sounding, your analysis is correct.

I am a convert to NO Catholicism 17 years ago. All the years I spent active in my parish, I never once heard about SSPX or a Tridentine Mass. My best friend from High School, a cradle Catholic, asked me "What is SSPX?" when I told her I was a trad Catholic. Very few people know or care, for that matter.

I believe in my whole soul that Our Lord brought my family to SSPX. If the Society had not had a chapel near me, we might be home-aloners. I am grateful to the Society for having priests and Masses. Our lives have been blessed in so many ways.

But in the 2 years since I have been going regularly to my chapel, not a single new person or family has shown up more than once for Mass. Modern Catholics aren't interested and regularization of the Society will change NOTHING for them.

I am also blessed in that, since we have been attending this chapel, we have met many families along the way. One of those families has a family member who is an independent priest with a private chapel. A few quiet families assist at Mass in his chapel frequently.

When the Society becomes regularized, and I believe it will, all of us who love our Catholicism, who wish to remain Catholic, will have to find places to go and priests willing to offer Masses for us.

I believe, more so than ever, that the end times are drawing nearer. Soon there will be no visible church other than the sick, modernist Rome. It will engulf the Society, and this is perhaps the way the Lord wills it to be.

Those of us who can see the signs will be prepared. Others, not so.

My husband asked me yesterday if I thought regularization would bring us more people. I replied with an emphatic NO! The whole Church is corrupt and rotten to the core. Well meaning Catholics are fully immersed in Modernism and they don't even realize it.

In my opinion, our best course of action is to take deep breaths and wait and see. If regularization happens, find yourself a priest and a chapel where you can receive the Sacraments. Pray.

The Society is not God. We do not have to blindly follow them down this path.

My family suffered in so many ways while in NO. We struggled against everyone to find the True Mass. We had no clues, no help, no encouragement other than the strength and guidance from the Holy Ghost.

That is all we have now. May Our Lord's will be done....

Elizabeth · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2012, 08:33:16 AM »

Quote from: TKGS

We've had an SSPX chapel in the greater Indianapolis area for about a year. Prior to that time, there was no SSPX presence in central Indiana at all. The chapel, however, has been in existence since the Crisis began and a few families banded together and found a priest who would give them the sacraments.

Never forget Fr. Andrew Jeffers R.I.P.of Terre Haute, St Athanasius the Great Chapel.

He was there for a pretty long time.

Ethelred · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2012, 08:37:52 AM »

Quote from: Clint

Bishop Williamson there again, above, says it all in a few words. If I had that article I would have posted it instead of my words. Thanks for the posting, this is what a Catholic forum is for. Made my day!

Quote
Bishop Williamson: the SSPX has neither great numbers nor great theologians nor great writers.

I know few Catholic writers today that can communicate so well as the bishop. He always goes to the heart, explains it simply and succintly. A first class communicator.

I once commented to a relative that I had read a book and it went in one ear and out the other, that it was a difficult read. He told me that it was because the writer was not a good one. That a good writer makes the complicated, easy to comprehend. The bad writer can even make the easy to understand complicated.

You hit the nail right on the head.
Many thanks also for your good description of Bishop Williamson.

Yes, Bishop Williamson is a master of the catholic word. He really knows how to apply the Faith in such a short but "action-packed" text like his Eleison Comments. That's why these are so great. Many priests and laymen read them with benefit, and Menzingen with teeth-gnashing.

(I sometimes quip: The worst part of the coming Chastisement with its total black-out will be our inability to access the Eleison Comments via Internet anymore... Hopefully there will be some brave Englishman who's prepared to spread it via letter in a bottle!)

P.S: You or somebody else could post that Eleison Comment into an own thread, so it doesn't sink in a long discussion.

JPaul · « **Reply #20 on:** June 21, 2012, 09:00:05 AM »

Quote from: Ethelred

Quote from: Clint
Bishop Williamson there again, above, says it all in a few words. If I had that article I would have posted it instead of my words. Thanks for the posting, this is what a Catholic forum is for. Made my day!

Quote
Bishop Williamson: the SSPX has neither great numbers nor great theologians nor great writers.

I know few Catholic writers today that can communicate so well as the bishop. He always goes to the heart, explains it simply and succintly. A first class communicator.

I once commented to a relative that I had read a book and it went in one ear and out the other, that it was a difficult read. He told me that it was because the writer was not a good one. That a good writer makes the complicated, easy to comprehend. The bad writer can even make the easy to understand complicated.

You hit the nail right on the head.
Many thanks also for your good description of Bishop Williamson.

Yes, Bishop Williamson is a master of the catholic word. He really knows how to apply the Faith in such a short but "action-packed" text like his Eleison Comments. That's why these are so great. Many priests and laymen read them with benefit, and Menzingen with teeth-gnashing.

(I sometimes quip: The worst part of the coming Chastisement with its total black-out will be our inability to access the Eleison Comments via Internet anymore... Hopefully there will be some brave Englishman who's prepared to spread it via letter in a bottle!)

P.S: You or somebody else could post that Eleison Comment into an own thread, so it doesn't sink in a long discussion.

One can address most subjects in one or two sentences or in an effusive essay.
However it is the former which will turn the head and ear towards the truth.
That must come first, that is the first step to conversion from the narrative of the world.

Bishop Williamson knows this, once you awaken the Catholic soul, it desires to be fed the Holy food of truth.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #21 on:** June 21, 2012, 10:38:05 AM »

Certainly the dumbest thread in the history of Cathinfo.

A bunch of people rightly upset with Bishop Fellay, so they start tearing up Archbishop Lefebvre's work?

"Weak."

"Ineffective."

Derided on the basis of expansion by responding to requests for assistance by the faithful?

Would you be happier if Archbishop Lefebvre told you to go jump in a lake when you asked him to give you a priest, or confirm your children?

I find it comical that some ignorant people in this thread want to criticize the apostolate of the SSPX for its failure to accomplish something it was never designed to do (I.e., be a missionary order to bring the faith to unchristian lands)!

This is not why Archbishop Lefebvre founded his order.

His only intent was to preserve the true priesthood, and the true Mass.

Anything beyond this was pure charity on his part.

You can no more criticize the SSPX for failing to convert pagan lands than you can criticize it for failing to fly airplanes.

Otherwise, I should be perfectly able to criticize any independent priest for failing to go convert New Guinea!

Wa- wa- wa. The independent priests are ineffective! They only go where people already had the Faith.

Blah blah.

You should know what you are talking about before you write stupid posts and threads like this.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2012, 11:38:49 AM »

Yes, by all means, please "thumb-down" my defense of the SSPX of these ridiculous charges.

As evidence of weakness and ineffectiveness you should be able to appraise how well it has accomplished its mission of preserving a validly ordained priesthood, and through this, a valid Mass.

But since such an appraisal would render a pretty good report card, we will judge it according to some other random and incidental criteria.

Can you say straw man?

After all, simply giving a thumbs-down is much easier than arguing a point.

Especially a point you have no hope of winning.

What a bunch of whining women.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2012, 11:40:25 AM »

Matthew-

You going to stand for this?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2012, 11:41:29 AM »

If the SSPX were doing so well it wouldn't be in this mess.

St. Mary's Kansas, for example, is an economic basket-case.

Do you think many of the lay people whose mortgages are held by the SSPX are going to be standing up to a sellout?

Or are there going to be a bunch of loud-mouths, guys screaming like drill sergeants, fanatics like Caminus and conformists like Grasmeier telling people that the resisters are evil doers to be shunned?

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #25 on:** June 21, 2012, 11:43:43 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

If the SSPX were doing so well it wouldn't be in this mess.

St. Mary's Kansas, for example, is an economic basket-case.

Do you think many of the lay people whose mortgages are held by the SSPX are going to be standing up to a sellout?

Ah.

Another neat side-stepping attempt to discredit the SSPX according to other criteria.

Care to base your assessment on how well it has preserved a valid priesthood and sacraments?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #26 on:** June 21, 2012, 11:44:41 AM »

Seraphim, who are you disagreeing with?

Quote from: Clint

Quote from: Matthew
The SSPX is just an organization dedicated to the true spirit of the Priesthood -- an organization that was founded to form solidly educated, traditional, and preferably holy priests according to the ancient wisdom of the Church.

Anything else we get from them is just a bonus.

This is 100% correct.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #27 on:** June 21, 2012, 11:45:50 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Seraphim, who are you disagreeing with?

Quote from: Clint
Quote from: Matthew
The SSPX is just an organization dedicated to the true spirit of the Priesthood -- an organization that was founded to form solidly educated, traditional, and preferably holy priests according to the ancient wisdom of the Church.

Anything else we get from them is just a bonus.

This is 100% correct.

Clint and TKGS

Telesphorus · « **Reply #28 on:** June 21, 2012, 11:50:17 AM »

Quote from: Seraphim

Clint and TKGS

What have they said that's contradicted what you've said about the SSPX and the priesthood?

What have they said that you disagree with, in particular?

What TKGS says is very enlightening. They just absorbed an Indianapolis chapel.

They didn't bring the faithful there, but now they have control over it.

The SSPX is being used as a weapon against Tradition. The persecution of Tradition has begun inside the SSPX.

Roman55 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 21, 2012, 11:56:13 AM »

Quote from: Seraphim

Yes, by all means, please "thumb-down" my defense of the SSPX of these ridiculous charges.

As evidence of weakness and ineffectiveness you should be able to appraise how well it has accomplished its mission of preserving a validly ordained priesthood, and through this, a valid Mass.

But since such an appraisal would render a pretty good report card, we will judge it according to some other random and incidental criteria.

Can you say straw man?

After all, simply giving a thumbs-down is much easier than arguing a point.

Especially a point you have no hope of winning.

What a bunch of whining women.

It couldn't have been articulated :light-saber: finer than how you have done here. I give you a thumbs up and this encouraging statement. You are keeping up the good fight! :boxer: How is it said: "No truer words"?