Author Topic: SSPX Can Barely Save Its Own, forget about Saving the Church (Read 8820 times)

Clint · « **on:** June 20, 2012, 07:15:48 PM »

The "strenght" of the SSPX was always a facade, just smoke and mirrors, except for a few mass centers like St. Mary's, and handfull of priests. The SSPX has Bishop Willamson, and Fr's Pfieffer's, and a few others, but outside of those few, SSPX is just a priestly association that does the Latin Mass. For 90% of the SSPX parishioners, they are lucky to just have the Latin Mass and sacraments, but to have a roaring lion, a brave priest, in their midst? Few do.

To even envision that the SSPX could have an effect on Rome is laughable. The SSPX exists as a Father does to his children, to watch over his own family, and that's it. The rest of the world just gets a good example from the family, and that is all. Anyone that thinks that the SSPX or they can change the world, is living a dream.

Diego · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2012, 07:40:26 PM »

I think the report card is more nuanced than that.

While there is definitely a pervasive hidey-hole mentality, I have had several SSPX help me and my family.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2012, 07:47:06 PM »

Quote from: Clint

The "strenght" of the SSPX was always a facade, just smoke and mirrors, except for a few mass centers like St. Mary's, and handfull of priests. The SSPX has Bishop Willamson, and Fr's Pfieffer's, and a few others, but outside of those few, SSPX is just a priestly association that does the Latin Mass. For 90% of the SSPX parishioners, they are lucky to just have the Latin Mass and sacraments, but to have a roaring lion, a brave priest, in their midst? Few do.

To even envision that the SSPX could have an effect on Rome is laughable. The SSPX exists as a Father does to his children, to watch over his own family, and that's it. The rest of the world just gets a good example from the family, and that is all. Anyone that thinks that the SSPX or they can change the world, is living a dream.
[/

There are precedents.

A mere 12 Apostles changed the whole world.

I would not agree that the SSPX has been as ineffectual as you portray it.

But what do I know......

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2012, 08:00:02 PM »

The SSPX is just an organization dedicated to the true spirit of the Priesthood -- an organization that was founded to form solidly educated, traditional, and preferably holy priests according to the ancient wisdom of the Church.

Anything else we get from them is just a bonus.

Clint · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2012, 08:36:05 PM »

Quote

A mere 12 Apostles changed the whole world.

I would not agree that the SSPX has been as ineffectual as you portray it.

It was Jesus Christ who changed the world.

If you are thinking that the SSPX is another "12 apostles", you are fooling yourself. The reality is that the SSPX has been ineffectual* outside of the few faithfull they serve. Go on say Freerepublic forum and see how how Catholics perceive the SSPX. Scarcely anyone outside of the SSPX faitful, know or care anything about the SSPX. They've had about as much influence as the indult mass communities, and the sedevacantes, and independents, a mass in one city here and there.

I look at my SSPX Chapel, a priory, with mass every day, surrounded by houses. Any converts, any neighbors start going to mass? Not one. And how many people go to mass after 6 years of existance of the chapel? Like 150 on Sunday, and like 15 during a weekday mass. If you only got that many in a Novus Ordo church in the area, they would close it down, and there are like who knows how many Novus Ordo churches in the area, 50-80? and Protestant churches? Maybe 500.

Don't fool yourself.

*re: The reality is that the SSPX has been ineffectual outside of the few faithfull they serve.

God sends the people to the SSPX, so the SSPX is not ineffectual to them, it is effectual in serving the few that God sends.

Clint · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2012, 08:39:11 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

The SSPX is just an organization dedicated to the true spirit of the Priesthood -- an organization that was founded to form solidly educated, traditional, and preferably holy priests according to the ancient wisdom of the Church.

Anything else we get from them is just a bonus.

This is 100% correct.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2012, 09:16:27 PM »

Quote from: Clint

Quote
A mere 12 Apostles changed the whole world.

I would not agree that the SSPX has been as ineffectual as you portray it.

It was Jesus Christ who changed the world.

If you are thinking that the SSPX is another "12 apostles", you are fooling yourself. The reality is that the SSPX has been ineffectual* outside of the few faithfull they serve. Go on say Freerepublic forum and see how how Catholics perceive the SSPX. Scarcely anyone outside of the SSPX faitful, know or care anything about the SSPX. They've had about as much influence as the indult mass communities, and the sedevacantes, and independents, a mass in one city here and there.

I look at my SSPX Chapel, a priory, with mass every day, surrounded by houses. Any converts, any neighbors start going to mass? Not one. And how many people go to mass after 6 years of existance of the chapel? Like 150 on Sunday, and like 15 during a weekday mass. If you only got that many in a Novus Ordo church in the area, they would close it down, and there are like who knows how many Novus Ordo churches in the area, 50-80? and Protestant churches? Maybe 500.

Don't fool yourself.

*re: The reality is that the SSPX has been ineffectual outside of the few faithfull they serve.

God sends the people to the SSPX, so the SSPX is not ineffectual to them, it is effectual in serving the few that God sends.

Disagree completely.

They preserved the true Mass.

They preserved true doctrine.

You don't think Rome would be even further down la la land had the SSPX not emerged as a counterweight?

You don't think 600 true priests and 1 million faithful worldwide is a significant contribution, because heretics still exist?

You don't think the fruits of those Masses are saving souls?

I think you are missing the forest for the trees.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #7 on:** June 20, 2012, 09:44:07 PM »

Quote from: Clint

The "strenght" of the SSPX was always a facade, just smoke and mirrors, except for a few mass centers like St. Mary's, and handfull of priests. The SSPX has Bishop Willamson, and Fr's Pfieffer's, and a few others, but outside of those few, SSPX is just a priestly association that does the Latin Mass. For 90% of the SSPX parishioners, they are lucky to just have the Latin Mass and sacraments, but to have a roaring lion, a brave priest, in their midst? Few do.

To even envision that the SSPX could have an effect on Rome is laughable. The SSPX exists as a Father does to his children, to watch over his own family, and that's it. The rest of the world just gets a good example from the family, and that is all. Anyone that thinks that the SSPX or they can change the world, is living a dream.

I read somewhere just a couple days ago that the conciliar church has 52,000 bishops in the world. Maybe I read that wrong, maybe it was 5,200. I apologize for not being more accurate. Let's stick with the 5,200.

As great as the Four are, they will become "one of the 5,200"...

The effects on the conciliar church would be negligible. But, by remaining apart, they are continuing the Catholic traditions.

Guys, I hate the idea of a deal.

Pray for the SSPX and that it will remain strong and free from any "reconciliation" with NewRome.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #8 on:** June 20, 2012, 09:52:32 PM »

The SSPX has been a holy protector of Catholic souls.

Each Catholic soul is a treasure. And that Catholic soul is cradled by the Traditional Catholic Church. Let us always offer praise to God for this blessing.

And the SSPX has been a guardian of the Catholic Tradition since it's inception.

It's the largest part of the remnant.

It has valid priests. Valid sacraments.

It has the Traditional Latin Mass - and safeguarded it through the spiritual storm that wreaked havoc on the Church following Vatican II.

It is aloof from the Novus Ordo.

If it makes a deal, it will be a betrayal but a portion of the SSPX will refuse to go along with this deal and that remaining portion of the SSPX will survive and thrive.

JPaul · « **Reply #9 on:** June 20, 2012, 09:53:10 PM »

Quote from: Seraphim

Quote from: Clint
The "strenght" of the SSPX was always a facade, just smoke and mirrors, except for a few mass centers like St. Mary's, and handfull of priests. The SSPX has Bishop Willamson, and Fr's Pfieffer's, and a few others, but outside of those few, SSPX is just a priestly association that does the Latin Mass. For 90% of the SSPX parishioners, they are lucky to just have the Latin Mass and sacraments, but to have a roaring lion, a brave priest, in their midst? Few do.

To even envision that the SSPX could have an effect on Rome is laughable. The SSPX exists as a Father does to his children, to watch over his own family, and that's it. The rest of the world just gets a good example from the family, and that is all. Anyone that thinks that the SSPX or they can change the world, is living a dream.
[/

There are precedents.

A mere 12 Apostles changed the whole world.

I would not agree that the SSPX has been as ineffectual as you portray it.

But what do I know......

Well, the only chance of them eventually helping the Church lies in their remaining apart an out of the grasp of the Judaized conciliar authorities.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #10 on:** June 20, 2012, 10:43:21 PM »

Quote from: J.Paul

Quote from: Seraphim
Quote from: Clint
The "strenght" of the SSPX was always a facade, just smoke and mirrors, except for a few mass centers like St. Mary's, and handfull of priests. The SSPX has Bishop Willamson, and Fr's Pfieffer's, and a few others, but outside of those few, SSPX is just a priestly association that does the Latin Mass. For 90% of the SSPX parishioners, they are lucky to just have the Latin Mass and sacraments, but to have a roaring lion, a brave priest, in their midst? Few do.

To even envision that the SSPX could have an effect on Rome is laughable. The SSPX exists as a Father does to his children, to watch over his own family, and that's it. The rest of the world just gets a good example from the family, and that is all. Anyone that thinks that the SSPX or they can change the world, is living a dream.
[/

There are precedents.

A mere 12 Apostles changed the whole world.

I would not agree that the SSPX has been as ineffectual as you portray it.

But what do I know......

Well, the only chance of them eventually helping the Church lies in their remaining apart an out of the grasp of the Judaized conciliar authorities.

Agreed

AntiFellayism · « **Reply #11 on:** June 20, 2012, 11:19:04 PM »

I don't agree in saying the SSPX is "just" this or that.

IMO the SSPX is (was) great, a truly work of God.

The problem is that way too many people seem to love Catholicism only because of the SSPX instead of loving the SSPX only because of its Catholicism; therefore they'll love the Society regardless its Catholicism when they really should love it as long as it teaches/follows Catholicism.

But don't be fooled, the fruits of Archbishop Lefebvre and Bishop De Castro Meyer has helped save hundreds of thousands of souls and it will continue to do so, even though it'll need a purification (i.e get rid of the liberals infiltraded in it).

Bishops Williamson, Tissier, de Galarreta(?); Frs. Pffeifer, Chazal, Girouard, Hewko, plus a great number of somewhat silent priests within and without (independent and friends) the SSPX will carry their heroic work.

May Our Lady intervene and acquire the necessary graces we need to follow the foot steps of all these saintly heroes, that our love for her holy Son may increase even in these terrible times.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #12 on:** June 20, 2012, 11:25:12 PM »

Quote from: AntiFellayism

The problem is that way too many people seem to love Catholicism only because of the SSPX instead of loving the SSPX only because of its Catholicism; therefore they'll love the Society regardless its Catholicism when they really should love it as long as it teaches/follows Catholicism.

Very good point.

Ethelred · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2012, 02:31:26 AM »

Clint, you're right. But the SSPX leaders don't want to hear the truth. They have some illusions of grandeur and really think they could save the Church and the world! But Pride will have a fall. And what happens now, the split and hence destruction of the SSPX, is some kind of punishment.

One wise SSPX bishop already in 2008 wrote to the world how small and humble the SSPX is, and that it should be thankful for the grace of God to be traditional catholic at all. Please let me quote this Bishop because his comment matches your observation well I think. He should have been (and should still be) general superior! But we don't deserved it... On the other side, only so the people all over the world can have the wonderful weekly Eleison Comments. Maybe that's more important.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

24 May 2008
Eleison Comments XLVII
Last Cartridge

A priestly colleague of the Society of St. Pius X has just written (or maybe adopted) a parable whereby the Society is the last cartridge of a hunter who must shoot to kill the monster of neo-modernism entrenched within the structures of the Catholic Church. Since it is the last cartridge, the hunter cannot afford to miss! Well, the „hunter“ may be burdened, but let me attempt to assure him that he is not burdened that much!

First and foremost, the Catholic Church belongs to Almighty God who has numerous possible ways of coming to its rescue that we men cannot even imagine. „Is my arm shortened because you men are wicked?“ asks the Lord God (Isaias 50:2). To imagine that the Lord God depends upon the SSPX to deal with the monster of neo-modernism is gravely to underestimate His powers!

Secondly, neo-modernism is surely far too entrenched in Catholics (or former Catholics) for a little Congregation of some 450 priests to be able to dislodge it! Just as the crime of abortion has become more and more normal and accepted over the last 40 years, so too has the heresy of neo-modernism more and more established itself over the same time-period in the hearts and minds of the mass of Catholics (or once Catholics). By the grace of God, the SSPX may still have the Truth, but what grip or leverage does truth still have on diabolically disoriented minds, starting with those of today’s leading churchmen?

Thirdly, what power does the SSPX have other than the – today – powerless Truth? Besides the Faith, the SSPX has neither great numbers nor great theologians nor great writers. It is holding its own all over the world, which is already a miracle, but it is fragile and in worldly terms it is advancing surely no more than one little step at a time, whereas the worldwide Revolution is advancing by leaps and bounds.

No, dear colleague. The humble mission of the SSPX is surely not to kill the storm dead (as only Our Lord could do), but to ride it out. Not to overwhelm the lies, but to sustain the Truth. Not to conquer, but to give witness. Not to be in a hurry, but to wait for God’s good time. It is His Church, and He is certainly looking after it by, amongst other things, sustaining thus far the SSPX. But He is never short of cartridges!

Bishop Richard Williamson
La Reja, Argentina

Clint · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2012, 07:19:11 AM »

Bishop Williamson there again, above, says it all in a few words. If I had that article I would have posted it instead of my words. Thanks for the posting, this is what a Catholic forum is for. Made my day!

Quote

Bishop Williamson: the SSPX has neither great numbers nor great theologians nor great writers.

I know few Catholic writers today that can communicate so well as the bishop. He always goes to the heart, explains it simply and succintly. A first class communicator.

I once commented to a relative that I had read a book and it went in one ear and out the other, that it was a difficult read. He told me that it was because the writer was not a good one. That a good writer makes the complicated, easy to comprehend. The bad writer can even make the easy to understand complicated.