Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!  (Read 5848 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Beatifico

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Reputation: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 02:19:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • As I remember, the French SSPX priest Father Celier (don't know if the spelling is correct) wrote a book combining the Traditional Mass and the NO (the hybrid) and a freemason wrote the forward or  introduction.


    Offline jlamos

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 305
    • Reputation: +209/-2
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #16 on: June 28, 2013, 02:19:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I've been downwind of hog farms that smelled better than this. I hope it's true. But I doubt it.


    Offline Elsa Zardini

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 317
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 02:40:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  •  :surprised:

    secretummeummihi dot blogspot mx (in Spanish; will see to translate it)

    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 498
    • Reputation: +448/-23
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #18 on: June 28, 2013, 02:41:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I'm not buying this. I think it's just posturing. It's like in basketball, when the player who just committed a foul holds his hands up in the air as if to say, "Look! I never touched him!"
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8212
    • Reputation: +7173/-7
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #19 on: June 28, 2013, 02:43:36 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Beatifico
    As I remember, the French SSPX priest Father Celier (don't know if the spelling is correct) wrote a book combining the Traditional Mass and the NO (the hybrid) and a freemason wrote the forward or  introduction.


    Yes, the man who wrote the book is Jean-Luc Maxence. He has criticized Archbishop Lefebvre and others who opposed Vatican II and mocked him for denouncing Masonry.

    Amazing that Fr. Celier chooses him of all people to write the book's foreword and even publish the book!
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Machabees

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 826
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #20 on: June 28, 2013, 02:57:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • “In their statement Thursday, the group contradicted now-retired Pope Benedict XVI’s stance on Vatican II. The letter made explicit reference to the “hermeneutic of continuity,” rejecting the interpretive lens by which Benedict XVI saw the conciliar docuмents in light of the Church’s Tradition.”

    See, even the modernist / liberal world knows that this new piece of paper from Bishop Fellay, and the other two, is an outright “contradiction” from what the N-SSPX had just declared and publicly maintain over the last year.

    No surprise here.

    Also, what is the difference for the N-SSPX to say now that Vatican II Church has always been “shamefully guided by human prudence and with such self-doubt that she asks nothing other from the state than that which the Masonic lodges wish to concede to her.”, and then from the same leaders of the N-SSPX though out the past year give statements in which they want all of us to go into its masonic graveyard of ecuмenism?  At no small stride either; they drove with a lot of ambition and energy to do so while they had punished and expelled anyone who got in their way!

    “The traditionalist bishops announce that, in practice, the dialogue with the Vatican is over…”  Here we have it.  The same reason I had mentioned weeks before; that all of this charade from Menzingen is because the new harlot of Vatican II (Pope Francis) does not want anything to do with the [double standards] of Bishop Fellay and company.  Neither do I.  However, we are now stuck for a period of time with Menzingen’s false “traditional face” on, until they see another opportunity to sell out.

    Remember, it was conciliar Rome that had DENIED Bishop Fellay's desire to join their halls of ecuмenism; it was NOT Bishop Fellay who had denied conciliar Rome.  

    Go to sleep little sheep as Menzingen wants you to believe…the cult of Bishop Fellay will wear you out over time with his soothing contradictions.

    Not the Eagles.  In God’s grace…we will always watch, as our Lord tells us, and call out the enemies from within.

    Offline John Grace

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5521
    • Reputation: +121/-6
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #21 on: June 28, 2013, 03:23:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • So it is basically business as usual for the SSPX. As 'Cassini' stated over on IA by and large the Irish haven't involved themselves in the politics of the SSPX. There was certainly no squabbling.


    Quote
    Go to sleep little sheep as Menzingen wants you to believe…the cult of Bishop Fellay will wear you out over time with his soothing contradictions


    A good comment. I can't recall who pointed out a Superior will mould his laity or something to that effect. Fr Morgan is happy for laity to believe lies and deceit.

    Offline Nickolas

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 238
    • Reputation: +443/-0
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #22 on: June 28, 2013, 03:49:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This whole thing is so "managed", like some kind of PR campaign and I believe that it is just that.  

    Next up in a month or two, a fund raising campaign by SSPX leadership with a dire report on shortfall in giving due to the dastardly work of one good Bishop and the so called "resistors".  


    Offline John Grace

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5521
    • Reputation: +121/-6
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #23 on: June 28, 2013, 03:50:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Nickolas
    This whole thing is so "managed", like some kind of PR campaign and I believe that it is just that.  

    Next up in a month or two, a fund raising campaign by SSPX leadership with a dire report on shortfall in giving due to the dastardly work of one good Bishop and the so called "resistors".  


    Indeed. They are worried about the resistance for certain. Damage control and the usual propaganda.

    Offline magdalena

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2553
    • Reputation: +2032/-42
    • Gender: Female
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #24 on: June 28, 2013, 03:52:00 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • So the body snatchers have left?  Well that's great.  But then why the sermons a la Frs. Rostand and Rutledge if we're just one, big, happy family again in the order of ABL?  Someone better tell Harry.

    Harry Peterson said: If you don't like it's modernist stance, go somewhere else.
    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline Machabees

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 826
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #25 on: June 28, 2013, 04:01:11 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • With all of Bishop Fellay's duplicity, the next time you enter in a N-SSPX chapel, you will need to look in the foyer to see which "position" Bishop Fellay wants his followers to believe.

    All the while, the back ground music is playing "Gone with the wind...".


    Offline magdalena

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2553
    • Reputation: +2032/-42
    • Gender: Female
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #26 on: June 28, 2013, 04:20:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Machabees
    With all of Bishop Fellay's duplicity, the next time you enter in a N-SSPX chapel, you will need to look in the foyer to see which "position" Bishop Fellay wants his followers to believe.

    All the while, the back ground music is playing "Gone with the wind...".


    That, or "Blowing in the Wind".

    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline Defender

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 36
    • Reputation: +91/-15
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #27 on: June 28, 2013, 04:39:46 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Geremia
    Quote
    Traditionalists Indicate Definitive Break With Catholic Church
    The Lefebvrist bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over.
    by CATHOLIC NEWS AGENCY 06/28/2013
    David Uebbing/CNA

    St. Peter's Basilica at the Vatican

    – David Uebbing/CNA

    VATICAN CITY — On the 25th anniversary of the illicit ordination of four bishops by traditionalist Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, the Society of St. Pius X indicated a definitive break of talks with the Catholic Church.

    In a statement June 27, three of the four bishops originally ordained expressed “their filial gratitude towards their venerable founder, who, after so many years spent serving the Church and the Sovereign Pontiff, so as to safeguard the faith and the Catholic priesthood, did not hesitate to suffer the unjust accusation of disobedience."

    The docuмent — titled “Declaration on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the episcopal consecrations (30th June 1988 – 27th June 2013)” — is signed by Bishops Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais and Alfonso de Galarreta.

    Bishop Richard Williamson, also ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre, was expelled last year from the society.

    The group was founded in 1970 by the French native Archbishop Lefebvre in response to errors he believed had crept into the Catholic Church following the Second Vatican Council, which took place 1962-1965.

    Interpretation and legacy of the Second Vatican Council was a major stumbling block for the society in their ongoing negotiations with the Vatican, aimed at healing their 24-year rift.

    The society has also had a strained relationship with the Church since its founder ordained four bishops against the will of Pope John Paul II in 1988.

    In their statement Thursday, the group contradicted now-retired Pope Benedict XVI’s stance on Vatican II. The letter made explicit reference to the “hermeneutic of continuity,” rejecting the interpretive lens by which Benedict XVI saw the conciliar docuмents in light of the Church’s Tradition.

    The bishops say that the docuмents themselves have grave errors and that they cannot be interpreted without clashing with Tradition.

    The “cause of the grave errors which are in the process of demolishing the Church does not reside in a bad interpretation of the conciliar texts — a ‘hermeneutic of rupture’ which would be opposed to a ‘hermeneutic of reform in continuity,’” they wrote, “but truly in the texts themselves, by virtue of the unheard-of choice made by Vatican II.”

    The group also claims that the Second Vatican Council “inaugurated a new type of magisterium, hitherto unheard of in the Church, without roots in Tradition; a magisterium resolved to reconcile Catholic doctrine with liberal ideas; a magisterium imbued with the modernist ideas of subjectivism, of immanentism and of perpetual evolution.”

    The docuмent argues that “the reign of Christ is no longer the preoccupation of the ecclesiastical authorities” and that the liberal spirit in the Church is manifested “in religious liberty, ecuмenism, collegiality and the new Mass.”

    Because of religious liberty, they claim, the Church is being “shamefully guided by human prudence and with such self-doubt that she asks nothing other from the state than that which the Masonic lodges wish to concede to her: the common law in the midst of, and on the same level as, other religions which she no longer dares call false.”

    Because of interreligious dialogue, “the truth about the one true Church is silenced,” they also say, while the spirit of collegiality “represents the destruction of authority and in consequence the ruin of Christian institutions: families, seminaries, religious institutes.”

    The Lefebvrist bishops save their harshest criticism for the Novus Ordo Mass, promulgated in 1969 by Pope Paul VI. “This Mass is penetrated with an ecuмenical and Protestant spirit, democratic and humanist, which empties out the sacrifice of the cross.”

    The traditionalist bishops announce that, in practice, the dialogue with the Vatican is over and that, from now on, they will wait “either when Rome returns to Tradition and to the faith of all time — which would re-establish order in the Church” or “when she explicitly acknowledges our right to profess integrally the faith and to reject the errors which oppose it, with the right and the duty for us to oppose publicly the errors and the proponents of these errors, whoever they may be — which would allow the beginning of a re-establishing of order.”

    The statement concludes: “We persevere in the defense of Catholic Tradition, and our hope remains entire.”


    I'll believe it when I see it...

    Five mandatory conditions that should be demanded from Rome by the successor of Bishop Fellay at the next chapter of the SSPX  ... when he should step down !
     
    1 – The consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the Pope and all the bishops of the world.
     
    2 – The lifting of the unjust and invalid excommunication of its founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and the opening of his beatification process.
     
    3 – The condemnation of Vatican II and the bastard mass of Bugnini (commonly called the Mass of Paul VI).
     
    4 – The cancellation of the beatification of John Paul II and of other doubtful beatifications since the Second Vatican Council.
     
    5 – The investigation of all canonical bishops appointed since the change of rite by Pope Paul VI, to determine the validity of their episcopal consecrations.

    Offline magdalena

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2553
    • Reputation: +2032/-42
    • Gender: Female
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #28 on: June 28, 2013, 04:48:43 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Add to that what ABL made clear after the Consecrations:  

    "I will not accept as being in the situation we found ourselves at conferences [1988].  It is finished I will ask [Rome] the doctrinal question:. 'Do you agree with all the great encyclicals of the popes who preceded you?  Do you agree with Quanta Cura of Pius IX, Immortale Dei , Libertas Praestantissimum of Leo XIII Pascendi Pius X, Quas Primas of Pope Pius XI, Humani Generis of Pius XII?  Are you in full communion with the Pope and with their statements?  Do you still agree with the anti-modernist oath?  Are you for the social reign of Our Lord Jesus Christ? '

     If you do not accept the doctrine of your predecessors, it is unnecessary to speak. As long as you have not agreed to reform the Council, considering the doctrine of the Popes who preceded you, there is no dialogue possible. This is useless. "(Fideliter No. 66, September-October 1988, p. 12-13)

    But one thing is necessary. Mary hath chosen the best part, which shall not be taken away from her.
    Luke 10:42

    Offline Walty

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 97
    • Reputation: +49/-0
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX bishops announced that the dialogue with the Vatican is over!
    « Reply #29 on: June 28, 2013, 04:58:12 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Neo-SSPX turn out to not be compromisers after all, eh?