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Offline X

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SSPX Article on Bishop Huounder
« on: March 02, 2019, 08:55:03 AM »
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  • [NB: This article has already been removed from the website referenced below, probably after it was picked up by the French resistance forum and Non Possumus

    The article below can be found in French here: http://resistance.vraiforum.com/t859-Fsspx-de-sur-l-eveque-Huonder.htm

    It is also available in Spanish here: http://nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com/]

    -----------------------------


    Today the German SSPX published an article in its monthly bulletin on Bishop Huonder.
    It is not yet on the net but only on the paper version (which can be found digitally on their website)
    https://fsspx.de/sites/sspx/files/mb_2019-03-03_d_web.pdf


    Translation:

    "The report that Vitus Huonder would retire to Wangs after his time as Bishop of Chur is correct, says spokesman Bishop Giuseppe Gracia this Tuesday at the Sarganserländer, which is confirmed by a report from Die Ostschweiz. "This step is linked to the mandate of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome to Bishop Vitus Huonder, to maintain contact with the Society of Saint Pius X," explained the bishop's spokesman. The institute in which Huonder will spend the rest of his life belongs to the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X, which is considered conservative. The 76-year-old Bishop Huonder is expected to resign from his position as Bishop of Chur in April. He had already offered his resignation to the Pope in the spring of 2017 for reasons of age. The Pope had given his consent, but only at Easter of the current year. The Sancta Maria Institute, the secondary school for boys with boarding school in Wangs, Switzerland, will welcome a new important resident after Easter: Bishop Vitus Huonder. The bishop leaving Chur will retire there. On 23 January 2019, the newspaper "Sargansländer" published an article by Denise Allig, which can be printed here in a slightly abridged version. Father Firmin Suter, director of the Sancta Maria Institute and priest of the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X since 2006, expressed yesterday, upon request, his joy at the arrival of Bishop Huonder on behalf of the entire community. "Yes, it is a great joy and a special honour for all of us," said Father Firmin.

    Bishop Huonder had already introduced himself to the students and won their sympathy, because he was a bishop with an open and frank heart," explains Father Suter. "It's great to be able to offer a house to such a bishop. "they never dared to dream about it. "When Bishop Vitus Huonder first contacted us, we wondered about the possible reason for his call," the priest continued. "In a personal conversation, he expressed a desire to spend the rest of his life with us. »

    Modest wishes for the new home.
    Bishop Huonder has not expressed any requests for his new home.
    "His only wish was to be able to move into a room in our institute where there was room for a desk and a shelf," says Father Suter. Of course, it has a small bedroom with bathroom and a bedroom as an office.

    No TV or Internet available.
    How will Huonder's future house be equipped? "Bishop Huonder's office has a balcony. Television and Internet access are not provided. I think he would rather spend a few hours in front of the Blessed Sacrament in the chapel than in front of a screen," explains Father Firmin. On the future of Bishop Huonder's life, he said that the Fraternity is a priestly association with a community life: "Our priests cultivate common prayer, liturgy, common meals and also exchanges on all kinds of subjects". Normally, Bishop Huonder's day in the future will look like this: 6:15 Prime, 6:40: Holy Mass, 7:30 Breakfast, 12:15 Sexte, after lunch, 18:30: Rosary, after dinner, 20:30: complies.
    In between, he will find plenty of time for study, prayer, contemplation and conversation. Father Suter also pointed out that the times of adoration in the Fatima chapel were public. "Those who want to experience a Latin Mass can gladly come."

    Questions:

    1) Which Mass will the bishop be saying?

    2) Will there be any Novus Ordo Masses said by the bishop (who has no problem saying them today)?

    3) If so, who will be serving them?  Or attending them?

    4) Regardless of the rite, will this bishop be giving what may or may not be holy Communion (i.e., the bishop was not consecrated in the traditinal rite of episcopal consecration).

    5) Have the faithful already received sacraments (?) at the hands of this bishop(?)?


    Offline X

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    Re: SSPX Article on Bishop Huounder
    « Reply #1 on: March 02, 2019, 09:47:51 AM »
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  • Handwritten letter of Bishop Tissier de Mallerais from 1998 regarding the doubtful validity of the new Rite of Episcopal Consecration (and consequently, regarding the use of Bishop Lazo for ordinations and confirmations):




    "Thank you for sending me a copy of Dr. Rama Coomarawamy’s pamphlet “Le Drame Anglican.”
    After reading it quickly, I concluded there was a doubt about the validity of episcopal consecration conferred according to the rite of Paul VI.
    The [phrase] “spiritum principalem” in the form introduced by Paul VI is not sufficiently clear in itself and the accessory rites do not specify its meaning in a Catholic sense.
    As regards Mgr Lazo, it would be difficult for us to explain these things to him; the only solution is not to ask him to confirm or ordain.
    Yours very truly in Our Lord Jesus Christ,
    +Bernard Tissier de Mallerais
    PS: Another thought: Mgr Lazo has already confirmed “quite a few” [people] with us. Obviously, this is valid because “the Church supplies” (canon 209), because a simple priest can confirm with jurisdiction. And it is difficult to see how to make our doubt known to Mgr Lazo. So silence and discretion about this, please!"
    http://www.fathercekada.com/2013/11/28/sspx-bishops-on-bishops-and-bishops/

    Contrast this situation with that of Bishop Huondor (who was neither ordained a priest, nor consecrated a bishop, in the traditional rites):
    http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bhuonder.html


    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: SSPX Article on Bishop Huounder
    « Reply #2 on: March 02, 2019, 10:36:13 AM »
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  • Thank you, X, for continued additions to your Catalog of Compromise. I just added #41 to my file. You have to be a person of some erudition and scholarly training. You can not possibly be numbered among us average CI plebeians. Why? You use an economy of words, i.e. no throw-away remarks, which so often characterize CI posts; no nonsensical rants to which some forum members seem especially addicted. Your English grammar and syntax are impeccable. Your knowledge of the situation historically suggests that you were, (at one time anyway), deeply immersed in the affairs of SSPX, and/or that you probably had more than a passing acquaintance with ABL
    I follow few of the threads on CI with any interest at all. And the ones I do read I usually abandon with a ho-hum after the first 50 or so replies. But in your case, we sense you’re the real deal. Not that we have any present interest in SSPX. No, our interest now is only in SSPX’s historical past, leading to its now chaotic present. We tend to agree with the seer that Menzingen’s time is up. Our Lady is fed up with that organization, and has given Fellay & Co. their walking papers.
    Keep up the good work

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Article on Bishop Huounder
    « Reply #3 on: March 02, 2019, 11:57:05 AM »
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  • Clearly, the "Resistance" membership on Cathinfo has made life difficult for Menzingen.

    The international eyes & ears of the Resistance watch the neo-SSPX's every move.

    Father Pagliarani's entire organization suffers from chronic paranoia as they carry-out their newChurch reconciliation, hoping not to be discovered.

    Today, the most grievous sin in the SSPX is an act of carelessness in guarding their secrets.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: SSPX Article on Bishop Huounder
    « Reply #4 on: March 02, 2019, 03:50:59 PM »
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  • X, since we are not permitted to address you in the Catalog of Compromise thread, can we ask you here to add another item to that thread, viz. the 219 unpublished sermons of ABL which +Fellay refused to publish, even resorting to the courts in order to suppress their publication?  You are probably aware of these sermons, and could, perhaps, supply some interesting information about them, and why they were held back.


    Offline X

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    Re: SSPX Article on Bishop Huounder
    « Reply #5 on: March 02, 2019, 04:58:59 PM »
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  • X, since we are not permitted to address you in the Catalog of Compromise thread, can we ask you here to add another item to that thread, viz. the 219 unpublished sermons of ABL which +Fellay refused to publish, even resorting to the courts in order to suppress their publication?  You are probably aware of these sermons, and could, perhaps, supply some interesting information about them, and why they were held back.

    Dear Mr. Hollingsworth-

    Firstly, thank you for your previous compliment and kind words earlier in this thread.  I shall try to be worthy of them!

    As regards the suppression of Archbishop Lefebvre's collected sermons, all I can tell you is this:

    In 2011, Archbishop Lefebvre's surviving brother and sister had desired to commemorate the 20 year anniversary of his death by publishing these hitherto unknown sermons.  

    However, that time period was building up to the height of the SSPX ralliement, and would have proved fatal to it (because there are included within that collection many unfavorable references to Cardinal Ratzinger, and also because -as was the case with Fr. Pivert's book referenced in the "Catalog" thread- there are many statements of the Archbishop against an agreement with unconverted Rome).

    To keep these sermons out of the public view at a delicate time, the Society initiated a successful copyright infringement lawsuit to keep them suppressed.

    At some point, I may make mention of this suppression in the "Catalog" thread, since it, in and of itself, certainly does represent a change in the SSPX (which instituted publishing houses to make the positions of Archbishop Lefebvre more widely known!), but the real nuggets are contained in the content of those sermons.

    Meanwhile, if it is any consolation to you, every resistance priest (so far as I am aware) possesses not only these suppressed sermons, but also the Archbishop's complete collection of spiritual conferences, and much other unpublished material of the Archbishop.  It just doesn't come to light because, well, if the SSPX would sue the brother and sister of its own founder, think what they would do to you, me, or a resistance priest!

    But it is preserved in (many) friendly hands.

    To come into the public domain, however, I think it will require a dying priest with nothing to lose, and everything to gain, to put it out there.

    PS: I should also add that I am open to responding to PM's from persons Matthew can vouch for (and you are one of those persons).

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: SSPX Article on Bishop Huounder
    « Reply #6 on: March 03, 2019, 10:14:27 AM »
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  • X:
    Quote
    It just doesn't come to light because, well, if the SSPX would sue the brother and sister of its own founder, think what they would do to you, me, or a resistance priest!

    My, what an indictment of +Fellay. Yes, +F sued ABL’s brother and sister, and wouldn’t hesitate to sue any of us. I suspect that this sspx bishop might even have sued his own grandmother in this regard. What a noble cleric he is!
    However, since we now know that these sermons are in the possession of all the “resistance” priests, couldn’t some of them (the sermons) be dribbled out here and there online without fear of litigation?

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: SSPX Article on Bishop Huounder
    « Reply #7 on: March 03, 2019, 10:16:43 AM »
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  • 4) Regardless of the rite, will this bishop be giving what may or may not be holy Communion (i.e., the bishop was not consecrated in the traditinal rite of episcopal consecration)

    I agree with all of your points, but on this one ( noted above)  how does this invalidate his priestly ordination (and ability to consecrate  the Sacrament) unless the Bishop that ordained Bishop Huonder to the priesthood ( and the Bishop that consecrated THAT Bishop) was doubtfully consecrated to the Episcopacy due to the VII "rites"? He seems old enough that his ordination to the priesthood most probably was valid. (Worth looking into)
     Thank you for your response


    Offline X

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    Re: SSPX Article on Bishop Huounder
    « Reply #8 on: March 03, 2019, 12:20:32 PM »
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  • 4) Regardless of the rite, will this bishop be giving what may or may not be holy Communion (i.e., the bishop was not consecrated in the traditinal rite of episcopal consecration)

    I agree with all of your points, but on this one ( noted above)  how does this invalidate his priestly ordination (and ability to consecrate  the Sacrament) unless the Bishop that ordained Bishop Huonder to the priesthood ( and the Bishop that consecrated THAT Bishop) was doubtfully consecrated to the Episcopacy due to the VII "rites"? He seems old enough that his ordination to the priesthood most probably was valid. (Worth looking into)
    Thank you for your response

    Hello Josefa-

    A couple things:

    1) Many maintain the new rite of priestly ordination to be either doubtful or invalid due to defect of form.  Since Bishop Huondor was ordained to the priesthood in 1971, he would have been ordained according to this new (doubtful or invalid) rite.  It follows, therefore, that if the rite is doubtful, the sacrament is doubtful.

    2) In that case, it would not matter that the bishop who ordained him was certainly validly consecrated (1957), since the valid bishop would still be using a doubtful rite.

    That said, my own opinion is that the concerns surrounding the new rite of priestly ordination are much less worrisome than those surrounding the new rite of episcopal consecration (which is not to say such concerns are without any merit, hence the point in my previous post).

    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: SSPX Article on Bishop Huounder
    « Reply #9 on: March 03, 2019, 03:45:44 PM »
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  • Thank you for clarifying for me!

     

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