Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: SSPX Annulments?  (Read 5025 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline bowler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3299
  • Reputation: +15/-1
  • Gender: Male
SSPX Annulments?
« on: November 07, 2012, 08:40:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • When did the SSPX start giving annulments? I remember that at the beginning they said they were only giving opinions on the Novus Ordo annulments of SSPX parishioners. However, that turned out to be either false, or only temporary, because the SSPX began giving annulments.


    Offline Ferdinand

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 391
    • Reputation: +0/-1
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #1 on: November 07, 2012, 10:15:37 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: bowler
    When did the SSPX start giving annulments? I remember that at the beginning they said they were only giving opinions on the Novus Ordo annulments of SSPX parishioners. However, that turned out to be either false, or only temporary, because the SSPX began giving annulments.


    The SSPX has had problems from the beginning, really began to lose altitude after the death of ABL, has been in a tailspin since 2000, and of course... ceased to exist a few years ago.  

    If you are still giving at your local chapel, make the check out to the Society of Blessed John XXIII (SBJXXIII).


    Note: The SBJXXIII will gladly grant you an annulment, and it will be as valid as the local ordinaries it will soon be under.


    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 13823
    • Reputation: +5568/-865
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #2 on: November 07, 2012, 12:27:38 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: bowler
    When did the SSPX start giving annulments? I remember that at the beginning they said they were only giving opinions on the Novus Ordo annulments of SSPX parishioners. However, that turned out to be either false, or only temporary, because the SSPX began giving annulments.


    Have they given actual "official" annulments?

    I am probably wrong but I was under the impression that they pretty much only "granted" annulments when the marriage they were reviewing had some obvious or public diriment impediment such as the ex-spouse still living etc.

    I know I'm being overly simplistic - especially if children are involved but under such situations pretty much anyone  can declare the invalid marriage null -- or at least it seems an official declaration of nullity is not a necessity - no?

     
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Sigismund

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5386
    • Reputation: +3121/-44
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #3 on: November 07, 2012, 07:23:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • They cannot grant annulments, becasue that requires ordinary episcopal jurisdiction.  A diocese or Roman dicastery has to do that.  The SSPX can't grant annulments any more than the Franciscans can.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15064
    • Reputation: +9980/-3161
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #4 on: November 07, 2012, 09:03:04 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Sigismund
    They cannot grant annulments, becasue that requires ordinary episcopal jurisdiction.  A diocese or Roman dicastery has to do that.  The SSPX can't grant annulments any more than the Franciscans can.


    Nor have they ever claimed to.

    They offer their opinion on cases brought before them.

    They make no attempt to offer juridical declarations of annulment.

    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline bowler

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3299
    • Reputation: +15/-1
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #5 on: November 08, 2012, 03:38:42 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Found this at: http://www.whyiamacatholic.com/SSPX/Fedeli.htm

    INTRODUCTION
    Professor Fedeli is a professor of history at the University of São Paolo in Brazil, and is President of the Montfort Cultural Association.

    The following critique of the marriage tribunals of the SSPX was hand delivered to the Bishops of the SSPX in 1999, and was subsequently ignored.

    This docuмent proves that:

    The SSPX was granting marriage annulments in January 1996, which is
    13 months before the policy of granting annulments was announced by Bishop Fellay on Feb. 2, 1997
    on this occasion, Bishop Fellay told only the SSPX priests, and not the people
    16 months before the policy of granting annulments was "officially" established within the SSPX on May 18, 1997
    23 months before the people found out about the anulments from Fr. Marshall Roberts on Dec. 8, 1997
    26 months before Bishop Williamson finally admitted publicly on March 3, 1998 that
    YES, the SSPX is granting marriage annulments
    it would have been better to keep the marriage annulments a secret
    the SSPX is not granting that many annulments to worry about
    This is like a group of gangsters telling us not to worry because they're not robbing that many banks.
    And so, the SSPX was secretly granting annulments without even telling some of the priests
    The traditional priests and bishop of Campos were either ignorant of the annulments, or they tried to hide them
    The traditional priests of Campos tried to "silence" Professor Fedeli because he was questioning the annulments
    The website of the Montfort Cultural Association is http://www.montfort.org.br/. Professor Fedeli was among those who first alerted Bishop de Castro-Mayer to errors within the group Tradition Family Property (TFP).


    Offline JMacQ

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 325
    • Reputation: +616/-3
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 03:42:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • wow, great job - only one day since you asked the question
    O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
    Praised be Jesus ad Mary!

    "Is minic a gheibhean beal oscailt diog dunta"

    Offline JMacQ

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 325
    • Reputation: +616/-3
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 04:17:21 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Now seriously.

    My youngest daughter's marriage (in the Novus Ordo) was declared invalid by the Novus Ordo on the grounds of psychological immaturity of both her and her husband. Her husband and his parents lied under oath when they testified before the diocesan official in charge of the case, and he decided to listen to them.

    We asked the SSPX to study the case and they said that the marriage was valid. My family accepted this decision of Bishop de Mallerey and my daughter lives with us since then. Her husband, of course, remarried in the Novus Ordo and has problems once again with his new "wife".

    Now, Bowler, tell me. Should we just forget the decision of this "group of gangsters" in the SSPX and tell our daughter to marry again? Whose opinion should be ask?

    Here you have another view of the issue, by Rev Fr Peter Scott. NOT a liberal this one! I trust Fr Scott and Bishop de Mallerey more than I could ever trust this perfect stranger Professor Fideli.


    http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/canonical/Canonical_Commission/questions_re_canonical_commission.htm



    How can the Society’s Canonical Commission grant valid annulments, and if it were to try to do so, would not this be a schismatic act?

    Clearly marriage is not just an individual matter or sacrament. It is a social act instituted for the good of society and for the good of the Church. That is why the Church has the right to legislate and why marriages need to be public facts. This is also why an annulment can only be granted by a tribunal with jurisdiction from the Church, in order that the subsequent marriage be a public, juridical and unquestionable fact.

    It would seem to follow from this that our tribunals could not grant annulments, for they do not have jurisdiction, and that the public juridical nature of the subsequent marriage could be questioned. What are we to do then? It is manifestly clear that we cannot refer the faithful to Novus Ordo tribunals, for they will almost always be given a decision in favor of an annulment, and that generally on the basis of Canon 1095, 3 which is thoroughly personalist and liberal and states that whoever is not able to understand and assume all the obligations of marriage (and how many young people are really able to do that when they are married?), cannot enter into a valid marriage. The marriage is valid if the couple mature together and the marriage succeeds. If not, it is invalid.

    The problem is that the vast majority of people who receive such a judgment are unwilling to hear anything to the contrary. Once told by the Novus Ordo that they are not married, they are unwilling to accept our judgment or analysis of the case. Consequently, they enter into a putative marriage, which is really an adulterous union. To send the faithful to the modernist tribunals is to participate in this sacrilege.

    What are we to do then? Nothing at all? Refuse them the Sacrament of Matrimony, which they have not yet received? Tell them that they have no choice but to live in sin, regardless of how good a case for an annulment they might have? The zeal for the salvation of souls forbids such a hard-hearted attitude to those who have already suffered a great deal and who desire the consolation of their religion.

    The answer is contained in the principle given by Archbishop Lefebvre at the beginning of the Ordonnances:

    Inasmuch as the present Roman authorities are imbued with ecuмenism and modernism, and as their decisions and the new laws are in their ensemble influenced by these false principles, we must provide authorities to supply for these defects, which authorities will adhere to Catholic principles of Catholic Tradition and of Catholic law. This is the only way to remain faithful to Our Lord Jesus Christ... (January 15, 1991).

    Marriage tribunals are one of these institutions that we are obliged to erect for the salvation of souls, given the failure of the modernist hierarchy to fill these needs of souls. The marriage tribunal, as its principal objective, has to establish, with moral certitude, that two persons are free to marry. If we have the right to perform marriages (and hence the supplied jurisdiction), then it follows that we have right to determine with certitude who is free to marry. On occasion, this will necessitate the study of the validity of a previous marriage, due either to defect of canonical form, or defect of intention, or some other prerequisite for a valid marriage.

    If it can be established, with moral certitude, that any Catholic tribunal would accept, from a study of the docuмents, that a marriage is and always was null and void, then a person is morally free to remarry. It is true that he is not juridically free in the most technical sense, being declared as such by a tribunal having jurisdiction. But since it is morally impossible to have recourse to the Novus Ordo tribunals, it is likewise morally impossible to obtain such a juridical freedom. Hence our duty to intervene, for the salvation of souls. The Society’s marriage annulment tribunal is thus supplied with jurisdiction in each particular case, both to make a statement of moral certitude for the good of souls (i.e., there never was a marriage in the first place), and to give a decree stating this fact.

    Although this decree might lack the technical force of law, because of the fact that the Society’s tribunals do not have a regular canonical erection, it will nevertheless be a statement having authority amongst traditional Catholics, and one which would have authority amongst all Catholics, should the crisis in the Church come to an end. Furthermore, it will guarantee the validity of any subsequent marriages. For this validity does not depend upon the legal status of the decree. The reason for this is that a prior marriage is only a diriment impediment to marriage, when it is truly valid. A second marriage, entered into before the certitude of nullity of the first marriage has been established by authoritative judgment, is illicit but not invalid, presuming that it is later established that the first marriage was indeed null and void (cf. canons 1069, °2 & 1987 of the 1917 Code and canons 1085, °2 & 1684, °1 of the 1983 Code). It follows from this that, a second marriage is certainly valid when the certitude of nullity IS established by an authoritative judgment, even though such a judgment might lack the due legal form. Furthermore, given the present circuмstances in the Church, a subsequent marriage is not only valid. It is also licit.
    O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee!
    Praised be Jesus ad Mary!

    "Is minic a gheibhean beal oscailt diog dunta"


    Offline bowler

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3299
    • Reputation: +15/-1
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #8 on: November 08, 2012, 05:28:31 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: JMacQ

    My youngest daughter's marriage (in the Novus Ordo) was declared invalid by the Novus Ordo on the grounds of psychological immaturity of both her and her husband. Her husband and his parents lied under oath when they testified before the diocesan official in charge of the case, and he decided to listen to them.

    We asked the SSPX to study the case and they said that the marriage was valid. My family accepted this decision of Bishop de Mallerey and my daughter lives with us since then.


    That is exactly what they were supposed to be doing, giving opinions, nothing wrong with that. Any priest can give his opinion, the fact that it is a group of priest, and more sound in the faith than practically any priest you'll ever run into in the world, makes it very valuable.

    That is not the bad part, the bad part is that they began granting annulments themselves.


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15064
    • Reputation: +9980/-3161
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #9 on: November 08, 2012, 06:05:13 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: bowler
    Quote from: JMacQ

    My youngest daughter's marriage (in the Novus Ordo) was declared invalid by the Novus Ordo on the grounds of psychological immaturity of both her and her husband. Her husband and his parents lied under oath when they testified before the diocesan official in charge of the case, and he decided to listen to them.

    We asked the SSPX to study the case and they said that the marriage was valid. My family accepted this decision of Bishop de Mallerey and my daughter lives with us since then.


    That is exactly what they were supposed to be doing, giving opinions, nothing wrong with that. Any priest can give his opinion, the fact that it is a group of priest, and more sound in the faith than practically any priest you'll ever run into in the world, makes it very valuable.

    That is not the bad part, the bad part is that they began granting annulments themselves.



    Not so.

    You can find an article on the purpose and function of the SSPX marriage tribunal on the SSPX.org website.

    They have never once attempted to offer a juridical declaration of nullity.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Machabees

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 826
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #10 on: November 08, 2012, 11:26:57 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Here is the SSPX annulment articles on the SSPX.org web site.

    http://www.sspx.org/miscellaneous/supplied_jurisdiction/sspx_annulments_index_page.htm


    Offline Sigismund

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 5386
    • Reputation: +3121/-44
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #11 on: November 09, 2012, 12:06:41 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Seraphim
    Quote from: Sigismund
    They cannot grant annulments, becasue that requires ordinary episcopal jurisdiction.  A diocese or Roman dicastery has to do that.  The SSPX can't grant annulments any more than the Franciscans can.


    Nor have they ever claimed to.

    They offer their opinion on cases brought before them.

    They make no attempt to offer juridical declarations of annulment.



    I am glad to hear that.  They can offer an opinion, as can anyone, but their opinions do not have canonical force.  Kudos to them if the recognize that.  
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Machabees

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 826
    • Reputation: +0/-0
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #12 on: November 09, 2012, 12:42:39 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Hi Gang,

    I was just reading some of the Annulment articles from the SSPX.org link (it is good reading), and, yes, they actually do ascertain and judge on annulments...supplied by Canon Law in this state of emergency -of Supplied Jurisdiction.

    An excerpt taken from the article "The legitimacy and status of our tribunals" by Bishop Tissier de Mallerais:  

    "3.  Given all these considerations, we conclude that our Canonical Commission - in the present case of moral impossibility of having recourse to post-conciliar tribunals - has the right to judge marriage cases.  If the Holy See was not as modernist as the tribunals, it would give us this power by Canonical Equity."


    Offline bowler

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3299
    • Reputation: +15/-1
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #13 on: November 09, 2012, 06:52:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Seraphim
    You can find an article on the purpose and function of the SSPX marriage tribunal on the SSPX.org website.

    They have never once attempted to offer a juridical declaration of nullity.


    Very little research will tell you that your conclusion was hasty. Sadly, this is a case where the SSPX has been shielding the truth behind ambiguity for looks like 16 years. There has been no transparency on the issue, just silence.

    Quote
    Found this at: http://www.whyiamacatholic.com/SSPX/Fedeli.htm

    INTRODUCTION
    Professor Fedeli is a professor of history at the University of São Paolo in Brazil, and is President of the Montfort Cultural Association.

    The following critique of the marriage tribunals of the SSPX was hand delivered to the Bishops of the SSPX in 1999, and was subsequently ignored.

    This docuмent proves that:

    The SSPX was granting marriage annulments in January 1996, which is
    13 months before the policy of granting annulments was announced by Bishop Fellay on Feb. 2, 1997
    on this occasion, Bishop Fellay told only the SSPX priests, and not the people
    16 months before the policy of granting annulments was "officially" established within the SSPX on May 18, 1997
    23 months before the people found out about the anulments from Fr. Marshall Roberts on Dec. 8, 1997
    26 months before Bishop Williamson finally admitted publicly on March 3, 1998 that
    YES, the SSPX is granting marriage annulments
    it would have been better to keep the marriage annulments a secret
    the SSPX is not granting that many annulments to worry about
    This is like a group of gangsters telling us not to worry because they're not robbing that many banks.
    And so, the SSPX was secretly granting annulments without even telling some of the priests
    The traditional priests and bishop of Campos were either ignorant of the annulments, or they tried to hide them
    The traditional priests of Campos tried to "silence" Professor Fedeli because he was questioning the annulments
    The website of the Montfort Cultural Association is http://www.montfort.org.br/. Professor Fedeli was among those who first alerted Bishop de Castro-Mayer to errors within the group Tradition Family Property (TFP).

    Offline bowler

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3299
    • Reputation: +15/-1
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX Annulments?
    « Reply #14 on: November 09, 2012, 07:07:25 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

    The USA Catholic church hierachy is cursed by God for taking upon themselves to separate what God has brought together. They have created out of thin air excuses for giving annulments, on average in most diocese as much as 95% of all request for annulments are granted.

    The SSPX has no jurisdiction to grant annulments. The participation in this sin that cries out to heaven for vengeance, can not but have repercussions on the SSPX. Perhaps it is the cause of the present crisis.

    The SSPX had no reason to grant annulments. They could have rendered their opinion for an annulment, and the couple could in good conscience have hired an attorney to go for an annulment in the Novus Ordo tribunals.