Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers  (Read 3779 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Asbury Fox

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 75
  • Reputation: +15/-20
  • Gender: Male
SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
« on: May 16, 2020, 02:04:35 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/sspx-and-sex-abuse


    SSPX AND INFILTRATION OF SEX ABUSERS
    by Dr. John Lamont  •  ChurchMilitant.com  •  May 16, 2020    
    How far-right ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs crept into the Society

    https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/sspx-and-sex-abuse

    Major higlights from an article written by a SSPX supporter:

    "...Why is the SSPX pursuing this strategy, and why did it adopt this policy towards sɛҳuąƖ abuse in the first place? These are the questions that this essay is intended to answer...

    "One explanation might be the following. The leadership of the SSPX lives in a somewhat isolated environment that it has previously been able to entirely dominate. This domination creates arrogance among the leadership, and means that they can often dispense with real ability. It also circuмscribes their conception of reality, making them think that the whole world is like the artificial environment that they have created and that they are able to control. So part of the explanation for the current state of affairs in the Society is that the leadership are arrogant mediocrities who are not capable enough to react to a new and difficult situation or even to really grasp the situation that they are in, and who are just falling back under stress to the strategies they have always used before.There is probably some truth in this explanation. But things have now gone too far for it to fully explain the Society's stance. Once police investigations and criminal charges begin, delusion and incompetence usually have to give way. What we see now is a deliberate defiance of attempts to oppose the SSPX's favorable policy towards sɛҳuąƖ abuse. Why is this happening?
    The first step in explaining the Society's actions is a proper characterization of their underlying motives and goals. The actions of the leadership of the Society and of many of their followers show that they have internalized the psychology and dispositions of a sɛҳuąƖ abuser..."

    "...Why would the authorities of the SSPX think and act like this? In one way, this question is easy to answer. It is because sɛҳuąƖ abusers are influential enough within the Society to be able to determine its policy and shape its conception of sɛҳuąƖ abusers and their victims. They form the culture of the organization. As a result, the persons in authority conform to and implement policies that reflect the outlook and interests of these abusers.This phenomenon has been seen elsewhere in the Church. It occurs when sɛҳuąƖ abusers are either at the top of an organization or else become influential enough that their interests cannot be sacrificed despite their not occupying the top post. The former situation is easy enough to understand. It occurred in the Legionaries of Christ, which was founded and led by a sɛҳuąƖ abuser who had total control of its actions and personnel. The latter situation is more complex and requires some analysis. I will assume that the SSPX was not run by sɛҳuąƖ predators from the outset and that it is the latter situation that is relevant here...

    "...The explanation I will propose is that the influence of sɛҳuąƖ abusers in the SSPX resulted from the general shortcomings of the men trained and ordained as priests of the Society, shortcomings that were not properly guarded against or even understood by Abp. LefebvreThe editor of a respected French Catholic journal told me once that Abp. Lefebvre made the mistake of choosing quantity over quality when he set up the Society. This is true, but itself requires explanation.The starting point for this explanation is that Abp. Lefebvre never seems to have done a postmortem on the preconciliar Church. He did not identify the weaknesses that caused it to collapse so quickly and thoroughly. He seems just to have thought that the preconciliar systems of training and theology were good ones that had been wrongly abandoned because of weakness, folly or treachery among the ecclesiastical leadership, and that what was needed was for them to be restored. Indeed he thought that they would be restored within a reasonable timeframe and that the postconciliar changes and problems would not be a lasting condition.He also seems to have overestimated the number of Catholics who thought as he did on religious subjects out of mature understanding and conviction and to have been willing to take at face value the men who came asking to join his Society. It is as if he considered such men to be like seminarians in the 1920s, when the population of Catholics who were committed to the systems and beliefs of the preconciliar Church were much larger, the opportunities and status on offer for seminarians of this sort were far greater and the backing of ecclesiastical authority for these systems and beliefs was solid.
    Nor did he take into account the implications of the fact that the preconciliar system of priestly training was built on the inculcation of blind obedience and conformity. It is one thing to have such a system for training leaders in an important, powerful organization that is a dominant force in many countries. In that sort of situation, you can still attract serious, capable people who are willing to put up with the training and will survive it somewhat intact. There is also a corrective to the effects of this training, resulting from the fact that the senior leaders eventually have to discharge important responsibilities.The pressure of these responsibilities does at some point select for men with character and initiative. The situation of a small, marginalized, despised community where leaders are trained and selected for blind obedience and conformity is very different. Sociologically, this kind of community has the characteristics of a cult. In consequence, the men who come forward as seminarians for a Catholic community of this kind will often be ones who want to be leaders in a cult. 

    "...Moreover, in the set-up that he established, they got results, up to a point. Their drive for power and love of humiliating their underlings meant that in a religious community set up on preconciliar lines that enforced blind and unquestioning obedience, they could ensure discipline and make things run well in the eyes of their superiors. Their methods and personalities meant they could not produce significant achievements or foster growth in the communities they were in charge of. Their influence would explain much of the huge wastage rate among the priests of the SSPX, estimated to be as high as 40% after ordination. But these failures could be explained away as due to the difficulty of operating in a hostile, anti-Catholic world..."

    "...Certain special factors seem to have obtained with the SSPX in the United States. The original attempt to establish the SSPX in the United States was a fiasco that resulted in the departure for sedevacantism of many of the priests ordained for the Society there. Archbishop Lefebvre, according to what I have heard, was inclined to give up on the United States as a result. He was talked out of this by the then-Fr. Richard Williamson, one of the few SSPX priests in the United States not to depart for sedevacantism..."

    "...In the case of the SSPX in the United States, one may wonder if a certain Eurocentrism was not at work. Would the extreme and blatant methods of the SSPX leadership in the United States — and the conditions they produced — have been seen as acceptable by the Society in France, for example? Probably not, but expectations were lower for the midwestern United States. And it must also be admitted that Bp. Williamson's methods got results on a material scale. He built up a community that raised money, produced vocations, built and filled seminaries. It must regrettably be acknowledged that this was possible because, in one respect, his methods were suited to the American environment.Americans have many good qualities, and I hope it will not cause offense to say that, like all other nationalities, they have some weak points as well. One of these is a certain vulnerability to the appeal of religious cults. The country, after all, was founded by Puritans who were cultists, and their influence can be felt to this day — in political correctness, for example, which is a cult of a secular kind. Williamson (an Englishman) knew this, and worked on this weak point to develop cult-like groups in the SSPX in America..."

    "...So the explanation proposed for the influence of sɛҳuąƖ abusers in the SSPX is the following: They established themselves firmly in the society under Abp. Lefebvre for the reasons given above. The existence and activity of the Society, always a difficult struggle, became even more challenging after the death of its founder. Acting in solidarity, the faction of sɛҳuąƖ abusers would have been able to make itself indispensable to whomever was in charge of the Society and to ensure that the leader of the Society was — if not one of its members — at least in full sympathy with it. Bishop Fellay fit that bill perfectly. This power enabled the faction to cause the policy and mental attitudes of the leadership of the Society to conform to its own in matters of sɛҳuąƖ abuse, with the results that we see today.Rather similar developments occurred in many other dioceses and religious orders throughout the world in the 20th century. The only significant differences in the case of the Society are the particular mechanisms through which sɛҳuąƖ abusers came to power and influence and the contrast between the Society's professed exemption from the corruption that besets the rest of the Church and the real state of affairs.What is the future for the SSPX under these conditions? A real reform seems unlikely. Corruption is too well established in the Society, and there is no will in Rome to intervene and force positive changes. One possibility is that the Society will decide to cut its losses and effectively shut down its U.S. operations, preserving itself in Europe and other countries where its activities are more secure. The leadership knows that there is both less tolerance of sɛҳuąƖ abuse in the United States and a more severe problem there. It seems, however, unlikely that this strategy can work in the long term, due to the gravity of the information already made public and the fact that these offenses will continue to be committed absent a drastic reform of the Society. The future of the SSPX is as uncertain as the future of anything in the corrupt and largely ruined Catholic Church."


    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2133
    • Reputation: +1330/-87
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #1 on: May 16, 2020, 03:39:37 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Dr. Lamont sounds more like a Neo-SSPX supporter rather than a Real SSPX supporter or even a Traditional Catholic when he writes this:

    "Williamson, from this point on, was the most influential founding figure for the Society in the United States. His anti-Semitism and nαzι sympathies are well known but do not exhaust his repellent characteristics. Even the most brainwashed SSPX adherents have been known to observe that his behavior on occasion is bizarre, aberrant and unhinged.

    One former novice in an SSPX contemplative convent told me that when Williamson came to give a spiritual conference to the nuns, his talk dealt exclusively with conspiracy theories about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The former SSPX seminarian Arturo Vasquez has observed: "I entered the scene of the SSPX in the late 1990s when the powerful triumvirate of Fr. Peter Scott, Fr. Ramon Angles and Bp. Williamson ruled the United States district, turning it almost into a far right-wing cult."


    Father Angles is an example of the combination of nαzι views and pederasty mentioned above, venerating Hitler and sodomizing a 14-year-old boy, Michael Gonzalez, who subsequently committed ѕυιcιdє and referred to Angles' crime in his ѕυιcιdє note. The combination of Williamson, Scott and Angles was a recipe for unparalleled disaster, producing SSPX communities in the United States that pullulated with every kind of physical and sɛҳuąƖ abuse."


    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41908
    • Reputation: +23946/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #2 on: May 16, 2020, 04:22:28 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • While this article takes a more rational tone than the ones written by Niles, it's still a logical hot mess.  I'll write more about it this evening when I have more time.

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15064
    • Reputation: +9980/-3161
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #3 on: May 16, 2020, 04:39:17 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • Dr. Lamont sounds more like a Neo-SSPX supporter rather than a Real SSPX supporter or even a Traditional Catholic when he writes this:

    "Williamson, from this point on, was the most influential founding figure for the Society in the United States. His anti-Semitism and nαzι sympathies are well known but do not exhaust his repellent characteristics. Even the most brainwashed SSPX adherents have been known to observe that his behavior on occasion is bizarre, aberrant and unhinged.

    One former novice in an SSPX contemplative convent told me that when Williamson came to give a spiritual conference to the nuns, his talk dealt exclusively with conspiracy theories about the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. The former SSPX seminarian Arturo Vasquez has observed: "I entered the scene of the SSPX in the late 1990s when the powerful triumvirate of Fr. Peter Scott, Fr. Ramon Angles and Bp. Williamson ruled the United States district, turning it almost into a far right-wing cult."


    Father Angles is an example of the combination of nαzι views and pederasty mentioned above, venerating Hitler and sodomizing a 14-year-old boy, Michael Gonzalez, who subsequently committed ѕυιcιdє and referred to Angles' crime in his ѕυιcιdє note. The combination of Williamson, Scott and Angles was a recipe for unparalleled disaster, producing SSPX communities in the United States that pullulated with every kind of physical and sɛҳuąƖ abuse."

    Someone came onto one of these threads recently and claimed to have confirmed with the KBI that there was no ѕυιcιdє note.

    No way to know if that person was telling the truth except to call the KBI yourself.

    Prior to that, another person claimed Gonzalez got mixed up in the gangs, and was murdered.

    It would seem therefore that CM is drawing very grave conclusions before even having established the facts.

    If CM wants to be perceived as serious journalists, they should obtain and post docuмentation establishing:

    1) County coroner or KBI determined cause of death was ѕυιcιdє, not murder;

    2) Something from the KBI showing there was, or was not, a ѕυιcιdє note.

    It is interesting to me that nobody on either side (SSPX supporters or CM) shows any real interest in obtaining definitive answers to those unresolved issues.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline apollo

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 689
    • Reputation: +353/-246
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #4 on: May 16, 2020, 09:17:17 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • It looks like a bunch of newbies have invaded CathInfo.com, all working for
    Church Militant.   If there were a moderator for this site, then we would
    not be bombarded by this stuff over and over and over again. 


    Offline Caraffa

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 989
    • Reputation: +558/-47
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #5 on: May 17, 2020, 12:48:20 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • The whole article is a good example of history according to the progressive timeline that is so common amongst the post-modern left and academia. It's telling of events is synchronic and emotional. The SSPX does this as well when it tries to attack the Resistance. 

    Scatterbrain:

    Quote
    And it must also be admitted that Bp. Williamson's methods got results on a material scale. He built up a community that raised money, produced vocations, built and filled seminaries. It must regrettably be acknowledged that this was possible because, in one respect, his methods were suited to the American environment.Americans have many good qualities, and I hope it will not cause offense to say that, like all other nationalities, they have some weak points as well. One of these is a certain vulnerability to the appeal of religious cults.



    Their drive for power and love of humiliating their underlings meant that in a religious community set up on preconciliar lines that enforced blind and unquestioning obedience, they could ensure discipline and make things run well in the eyes of their superiors. Their methods and personalities meant they could not produce significant achievements or foster growth in the communities they were in charge of.

    Quote
    The country, after all, was founded by Puritans who were cultists, and their influence can be felt to this day — in political correctness, for example, which is a cult of a secular kind. Williamson (an Englishman) knew this, and worked on this weak point to develop cult-like groups in the SSPX in America..."

    Now the social retardation of Dr. Lamont starts coming out. The cult like elements of the Neo-SSPX are directed against Bishop Williamson, the SSPX Resistance, and sometimes Sedes. The extremely high neuroticism of Jєωs is the origin of political correctness, not neo-puritans. 

    With regard to end, it is beyond ridiculous to suggest that Rome doesn't want the SSPX because of some pedo problems on the latter's part. The Conciliar Church can't wait for pederasty and pedophilia to be normalized, so it can wipe it's hands clean and the laxity, if you can even call it that, gets hailed as "ahead of it's time" and "progressive."

    Pray for me, always.

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6173
    • Reputation: +3147/-2941
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #6 on: May 17, 2020, 03:02:09 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Now the social retardation of Dr. Lamont starts coming out. The cult like elements of the Neo-SSPX are directed against Bishop Williamson, the SSPX Resistance, and sometimes Sedes. The extremely high neuroticism of Jєωs is the origin of political correctness, not neo-puritans.

    Yes, and it seems that John Lamont believes that Jєωs are not the enemy of the Church. Maybe that's his problem with Bp. Williamson, and also why he seems to be in line with the thinking of Voris.

    A 2013 article written by Lamont titled "Why the Jєωs are not the enemy of the Church":

    https://www.hprweb.com/2014/03/why-the-Jєωs-are-not-the-enemies-of-the-church/
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41908
    • Reputation: +23946/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #7 on: May 17, 2020, 06:47:09 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • If CM wants to be perceived as serious journalists, they should obtain and post docuмentation establishing:

    Yes, this is my chief problem with them.  They draw all kinds of conclusion and make insinuations without any evidence to back it up.

    This article in the OP is full of unsubstantiated premises.


    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41908
    • Reputation: +23946/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #8 on: May 17, 2020, 06:48:06 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • It looks like a bunch of newbies have invaded CathInfo.com, all working for
    Church Militant.  

    It does appear that way.

    Offline Last Tradhican

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6293
    • Reputation: +3327/-1937
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #9 on: May 17, 2020, 10:40:27 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote
    SSPX AND INFILTRATION OF SEX ABUSERS
    Infiltration? 5 or 6 sodomites from over 600+ SSPX priests is an infiltration? Well, maybe to an innocent small town SSPXer that thought all SSPX priest walked on water. For me, it is no surprise that there are/were 6 sodomite priests in the SSPX.  In the Novus Ordo, in some diocese the number of effeminate priest is as high as 50%, now that's infiltration, that's a plague and a takeover.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Incredulous

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 8901
    • Reputation: +8675/-849
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #10 on: May 17, 2020, 12:08:31 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • To Micheal Voris:


    1. Why don’t you ever talk about the sex scandals and cult lawsuits of the Opus Judei?

    2.  Be sure to keep-up on your daily HIV medications, otherwise you risk going into dementia.

    :popcorn:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Asbury Fox

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 75
    • Reputation: +15/-20
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #11 on: May 17, 2020, 12:33:40 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Not just 5 or 6 Sodomite priests. There's more than that worldwide & throughout its history.

    The KBI, Kansas Bureau of Investigation has included the SSPX along with the 4 dioceses of Kansas in their current sex abuse investigation. According to this article, they are looking into 8 SSPX priests with incidents in Kansas:

    https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article242572821.html

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41908
    • Reputation: +23946/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #12 on: May 17, 2020, 01:55:04 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Dr. Lamont starts with the subtitle by referring to "far-right ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs", thereby carrying on the policy of CM using this as a smear against Traditional Catholics in general ... as if this problem were limited to or even somehow more prevalent among Traditional Catholics.

    If there's any link between Tradition and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs, it's that the latter are attracted to the superior aesthetics of the Traditional Liturgy.  In point of fact, most of the ones I have run across were at one time or another accused by their colleagues of being Modernists, and they were obviously using the perception of being "far-right" as additional cover for their activities.

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41908
    • Reputation: +23946/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #13 on: May 17, 2020, 02:03:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There's no evidence whatsoever for any of his wild speculations in which he assaults Traditional Catholicism as a whole and the SSPX in particular.

    There's no evidence that the explanation is any more deep and profound that Bishop Fellay and one or two other superiors were so protective of the "reputation" of the SSPX that they either covered up the tracks of one or two of these priests or else caused them to be dismissive of the allegations.  Perhaps there was a certain cognitive dissonance at work, where they were themselves so reluctant to believe that those who appeared outwardly to be devout and dedicated Traditional priests could be guilty of such things.  In fact, amidst the scant evidence actually offered by CM, some written communication and recorded conversations, this does in fact appear to be the case, with +Fellay making comments about how the victims were damaging the Society, and one or two other priests dismissing the allegations as lacking in credibility.  And that of course is bad enough, and I am not minimizing the gravity of having done this.

    Could it be worse than that?  Sadly, yes.  But there is absolutely zero evidence that it is, and the rest of Dr. Lamont's speculations are entirely without merit.  He is taking on the aspect of an armchair pop psychologist.  But if that were all there was too it, I wouldn't spend any time with it.

    There are some allegations and insinuations here that border on slander and calumny.  In fact, if he does not provide evidence for what he asserts, he has in fact committed grave calumny.

    Online Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 41908
    • Reputation: +23946/-4345
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX And Infiltration Of Sex Abusers
    « Reply #14 on: May 17, 2020, 02:13:45 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Lamont could have stopped here, with the beginning of his first paragraph.

    Quote
    One explanation might be the following. The leadership of the SSPX lives in a somewhat isolated environment that it has previously been able to entirely dominate. This domination creates arrogance among the leadership, and means that they can often dispense with real ability. It also circuмscribes their conception of reality, making them think that the whole world is like the artificial environment that they have created and that they are able to control. So part of the explanation for the current state of affairs in the Society is that the leadership are arrogant mediocrities who are not capable enough to react to a new and difficult situation or even to really grasp the situation that they are in, and who are just falling back under stress to the strategies they have always used before. There is probably some truth in this explanation. 

    But Lamont is not content with such an explanation and feels the need to play armchair pop psychologist.

    Quote
    But things have now gone too far for it to fully explain the Society's stance. Once police investigations and criminal charges begin, delusion and incompetence usually have to give way. What we see now is a deliberate defiance of attempts to oppose the SSPX's favorable policy towards sɛҳuąƖ abuse. Why is this happening?

    The first step in explaining the Society's actions is a proper characterization of their underlying motives and goals. The actions of the leadership of the Society and of many of their followers show that they have internalized the psychology and dispositions of a sɛҳuąƖ abuser..."

    This is where he crosses the line.  No one has demonstrated the that SSPX has a "policy" of "favor[ing]" sɛҳuąƖ abuse.  And Lamont doesn't stop.  He claims that the leadership and many of the SSPX "followers" have INTERNALIZED THE PSYCHOLOGY AND DISPOSITIONS OF A sɛҳuąƖ ABUSER.  That is slander and calumny ... without a shred of evidence to back it up.  So, basically the SSPX and the SSPX followers have all become a pack of sɛҳuąƖ abusers.

    So far we've heard of a small handful of cases, the two most egregious having been the cases of Fr. Abbet and Fr. Peignot.  And the common thread here is in fact one Bishop Bernard Fellay.  +Fellay needs to publicly explain why he reassigned those two priests despite their having been found guilty of sɛҳuąƖ abuse.  Meanwhile, the other grave case, that of Fr. Angles (although the details there are murky, had no signs that anyone other than Fr. Angles and the victim were aware of what was going on ... in other words, an isolated criminal act that had nothing to do with the broader SSPX.