Author Topic: Friendly Reminder about Boston KY issues (Read 9043 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #40 on:** September 30, 2015, 01:36:09 PM »

Quote from: Centroamerica

Sometimes you just have to know when to admit that you may be wrong.

Or sometimes you may have to know when you're oversimplifying issues.

Define online shopping. Is it sinful to purchase a game that you download to your computer? This involves no servile work whatsoever from anyone, and so it's not the least bit sinful. So your absolute rule about "unnecessary shopping" being sinful is immediately uprooted.

In addition, in the vast majority of cases, orders placed on Sunday online, even if not entirely electronic, will not begin to be "fulfilled" until Monday, when the establishment opens for its normal business hours. Let's say that I enjoy remote-controlled airplanes, find one that I like online on a Sunday, add the thing to my cart, and pay for it. Nobody actually does any work related to this order until Monday. On Monday morning someone comes in, gets a list of the orders, and starts packing them to send out. Based on exactly WHAT moral principal would this kind of "shopping" be sinful? Answer: none.

Now, if I'm sitting there an buying all kinds of routine things like groceries online, then to some extent that might violate the SPIRIT of the Sunday where we should not be preoccupied too much with worldly matters, but that would be about it. This still doesn't involve SERVILE work as defined by the moral theologians (moving your fingers to click a mouse hardly qualifies).

Maybe I'll look into hiring a Sunday Jew (corollary to the Sabbath Goi) to click my mouse for me.

covet truth · « **Reply #41 on:** September 30, 2015, 02:08:41 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Quote from: covet truth
I always feel guilty when something I have bid on on ebay is over on Sunday.

You bid on something on Friday, the auction ends on Sunday, you pay for it on Monday, the seller ships it on Tuesday. Where in that process was someone not spending their Sunday time appropriately?

That's exactly what I do -- pay on Monday and not on Sunday. It's not wrong and I'm not saying that it is. It's just that when your mind is occupied and thinking about obtaining some material things it might as well be any other day of the week.

Growing up in the 40's and 50's, Sunday had a very different feel about it. It had a much slower pace than any other day and a quiet the other days did not have. I guess it is just ingrained in me from a very different era. No one shopped then as no stores were open on Sunday including grocery stores. Gas stations were open but were not mini-marts then. People visited family, went for drives in the country, read, went on picnics, etc. You never saw people washing their car, mowing grass or hanging out laundry (before dryers) on Sunday. Of course, that all began to change gradually in the late 50's.

Matthew · « **Reply #42 on:** September 30, 2015, 02:41:05 PM »

Tom Nelson told me in Catechism class that somewhere in Europe (probably in the 50's) the pharmacies would be open on Sunday, but only the back of the store where the prescription drugs were dispensed. The rest of the store (toys, soda fountain, household goods) would be closed.

This brings up an interesting point though. MORE people lived in the country back then. But it wasn't necessary to shop on Sunday while "in town for Mass" for several reasons:

1. Mega grocery stores or supermarkets didn't exist yet. Every small town had a grocery store, and it didn't cost an arm & a leg more to buy your monthly groceries there compared with the local supermarket.

1A. More people lived in the country, and produced at least a % of their own food. In particular, those things that don't keep for long (fresh ingredients for home cooking). It's easy to keep stocked up on canned goods and non-perishables. What sends you to the store often are those fresh vegetables you need to make this or that dish.

1B. Things were more local than national, and certainly not global yet. There were a lot more viable "local" and small, family owned businesses.

2. This was before the Crisis in the Church, and the "1+ hour trip to Mass" became a fixture or a given for all serious Catholics. Your trip to Mass on Sunday was a trip the closest Catholic Church!

3. Money was worth more (heck, our coins were still 90% silver as recently as 1964) so there was much less necessity for husbands to work 2 jobs, wives to work, or families to be extremely frugal (on gas, time) just to survive. It was a different world back then.

4. People had family they could hang out with on Sunday. Today, people are spread out all over the country, often extremely isolated from family and/or other Trad Catholics. Also, even when family is technically present, they are so different from a Catholic mentality that it is difficult to spend much time with them. This might not apply to you, you might think it sounds far-fetched or crazy. Trust me, it isn't. It's all too real a situation for many good Traditional Catholics. Remove too many things they "can" do on Sunday, and they'd start dreading the Lord's Day as being a day spent in a prison cell where they can't do anything.

"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." -Our Lord

Long story short, God will understand. Just be honest with yourself, honest with God, and do what your conscience tells you is right. Everyone knows if they're properly dedicating Sunday to God, or if they are cheating. It's the spirit of the law that really matters. Quibbling about how many miles you can travel on foot on the Sabbath (the Pharisees worked this one out. answer: 2 miles) or how many mouse-clicks constitute servile work is something for Pharisees -- not Trad Catholics.

confederate catholic · « **Reply #43 on:** September 30, 2015, 03:52:15 PM »

some of us must, because of lack of choice, (because we live in the country) even work on Sunday.
My old Confessor (god rest his soul) who was ordained long before the council told us that Service work (food, Medicine, etc..) may have to be done on Sunday. Someone has to Cook the food for us who do not. this is common sense, how is it sinful to click on a mouse? :detective: