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Offline SeanJohnson

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SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
« on: March 19, 2023, 10:11:16 AM »
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  • Apparently the SSPX is making an old (1987) essay of long-time French District publishing editor and GREC member, Fr. Gregoire Celier, available for English-language readers, according to this Angelus Press announcement:

    https://angeluspress.org/products/ecuмenism-in-liturgical-reform-and-the-problem-with-liturgical-reform

    Supposing the content is 100% orthodox (i.e., I haven't read it yet), one has to wonder what prompted the Society to resurrect this 36 year-old essay, particularly when its primary thesis (i.e., the new Mass is ecuмenical in both intention and inspiration) has been so well covered by the Society elsewhere in the past. 

    As Bishop Thomas Aquinas (who spent the first year of seminary in Econe with Fr. Celier) said of him, "Be careful with this man."

    Regarding the strange literary career of Fr. Celier, Mr. Paul Chaussee (a French Resistance layman who died a couple years ago, and who was one of the world's foremost experts on the Shroud of Turin, as well as an able author and historian) produced enlightening work about his writings and activities, which one can read about in this thread:

    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/first-time-in-english-bishop-fellay's-plan/msg646152/#msg646152 

    Better than the individual posts in the thread (which are very informative themselves), is the attached 42-page study of Mr. Chaussee, which is essential for anyone desiring to understand the mechanics and inspiration of Bishop Fellay's ralliement of the Society to modernist Rome (of whom Fr. Celier was the chief architect, at least within the SSPX).

    I reattach it below (you must be login in to read it).

    Consequently, whatsoever may be found within this Angelus rehash by Fr. Celier, his GREC participation; his various pseudonyms and pen names concealing his identity in the more concerning works (some bordering upon gnosticism), and published outside SSPX media outlets; his 2007 Benedict XVI and the Traditionalists which did so much damage in explaining why +Lefebvre would allegedly accept a deal with modernist Rome (as recounted in my own book As We Are?), and which contains a Foreword by a Freemason; the blueprint contained therein which +Fellay seized upon to reorient the SSPX toward modernist Rome, which was Celier's creation (or in any case, which came through him from ?); Fr. Celier is an author who should be absolutely avoided by the uninformed, lest simple faithful be drawn into his darker works on the basis of this potentially/possibly orthodox one.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #1 on: March 19, 2023, 12:19:32 PM »
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  • Apparently the SSPX is making an old (1987) essay of long-time French District publishing editor and GREC member, Fr. Gregoire Celier, available for English-language readers, according to this Angelus Press announcement:

    https://angeluspress.org/products/ecuмenism-in-liturgical-reform-and-the-problem-with-liturgical-reform

    You had a forbidden/dirty word in this link, so try this ... https://tinyurl.com/2p6cpujh

    From one of your former posts ...
    Quote
    1987 - Grégoire Celier, The Ecuмenical Dimension of Liturgical Reform. Editions FIDELITER, Le Pointet, Escurolles. © G. CELIER. 

    It is the work of a scholar who has accuмulated more than 300 quotations, most of which are contrary to traditional doctrine, but none of which are corrected by a reminder of the truth. Thus, in the foreground, a quotation from Archbishop Annibale Bugnini (but of course!):

    "Liturgical reform is a great conquest of the Catholic Church, with important ecuмenical repercussions; not only has it aroused the admiration of other Churches and Christian communities, but it also represents a kind of model for them. » (1974). 

    But Celier forgets to say that in 1975, we discovered with amazement that Archbishop Bugnini was a Freemason! In his Letter to Friends and Benefactors No. 10, Bishop Lefebvre wrote: "When we learn in Rome that he who was the soul of the liturgical reform is a Freemason, we can think that he is not the only one. The veil that covers the greatest mystification of clerics and the faithful has probably begun to be torn. "A revealing omission, twenty years ago already.

    This book could be signed by a progressive conciliarist or by a Protestant. The warning contains no criticisms of neo-Modernist ecuмenism and there is no reference to the encyclical Mortalium Animos of Pius XI, (1928) condemning this modern ecuмenism. Obviously, the author has forgotten the Apostle's precept: "I implore you... insist in time and against time, correct, correct, threaten, exhort, always with patience and instruction. " (II Timothy 4:1-2).

    So how could this pernicious book be allowed to be published when it was a lying by omission? 

    Does this explain why they might be republishing this now?  Sounds like Fr. Celier is spinning the liturgical reform (aka the NOM) as mere as founded upon a misguided theological trend, vs. the deliberately pernicious work of a Freemason intent upon destroying the Church.

    So if they're underselling the opposition to the NOM, could it be preliminary to accepting some kind of hybrid arrangement, where a reformed Tridentine Mass would be accepted by SSPX?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #2 on: March 19, 2023, 12:37:56 PM »
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  • Intersting, from the PDF you attached ...
    Quote
    However, in his interview with FIDELITER, published after the book was published on the site
    <La Porte latine>6 on March 3, 2007, Father Celier stated :

    "The superiors of the Society of Saint Pius X felt that the matter[participation in this book of
    interviews] was worth trying, that it was useful to try to present organically the position of the
    Society of Saint Pius X. But, in order to preserve their complete freedom on this question of
    agreements, in order not to find themselves "bound" in spite of themselves by such a more
    personal reflection, they wished that this book would appear under my sole responsibility,
    without engaging ex professo the Society of Saint Pius X. In a word, this book is neither official
    nor unofficial, but it is authorized to appear by my superiors, after reading of course.”

    It is very likely that the argument we have highlighted will escape the attention of most readers,
    traditionalists or not. To be convinced, it is enough to ask the question otherwise: "If this book
    contained false statements or erroneous opinions, would the Superiors who read it have let it be printed
    without first requiring the correction of these errors? "No, of course not, because this ambiguity would
    have risked having the Society blame Celier's mistakes on the Society.

    So, probably seduced by the reputation of "Éditions Albin-Michel", the Superiors read the manuscript in
    question, and approved its content, but tacitly, not wanting to be "bound". This is an ambiguous
    behaviour that we will not fail to find very strange when we discover what this book hides. Worrying
    behaviour when remembering the precept "Let your yes be yes if it is yes; no if it is no. What is added
    comes from the Evil One" (Matthew 5:37).

    It's called plausible deniability.  SSPX agreed with the book, thus permitting it to be published without insisting upon corrections, but wanted to distance themselves from any blowback that might result.

    Bergoglio uses this tactic often.  He repeatedly allowed Scalfari to publish the attribution of grossly heretical statements to him.  Bergoglio never repudiated these statements nor denied them, but with Scalfari being the mouthpiece, he could maintain a separation from them and plausible deniability.

    Here's a good analysis about the Bergoglio/Scalfari partnership:  https://onepeterfive.com/scalfari-friend-of-francis-claims-pope-believes-jesus-was-not-a-god-at-all/

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #3 on: March 19, 2023, 12:42:37 PM »
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  • Does this explain why they might be republishing this now?  Sounds like Fr. Celier is spinning the liturgical reform (aka the NOM) as mere as founded upon a misguided theological trend, vs. the deliberately pernicious work of a Freemason intent upon destroying the Church.

    So if they're underselling the opposition to the NOM, could it be preliminary to accepting some kind of hybrid arrangement, where a reformed Tridentine Mass would be accepted by SSPX?

    There is no doubt that under BXI, a hybrid Mass was the goal (e.g., see the attached 42-page docuмent above of Mr. Chaussee regarding the "Pi-Paul Mass" which was to have emerged).

    Both BXVI and Francis announced their intentions to "enrich" the TLM by incorporating Novus Ordo prefaces, "saints," etc.

    And the SSPX seems to have been on board with this plan (e.g., Importing the modernist French Mass postures to America in the mid/late 2000s; dialogue Masses in all schools; congregational singing in all American parishes; etc.), to eventually arrive at something close to the 1965 Missal (which many hold to be "the true Mass of Vatican II, and by this means save the council).

    Whether that is still the plan (i.e., to outward appearances, Francis appears to have lost patience with the long game of BXVI), only time will tell.

    But as regards this book of Fr. Celier, I had forgotten about the insights of Mr. Paul Chaussee.  

    I will order it on Tuesday, and then post a review.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #4 on: March 19, 2023, 12:46:52 PM »
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  • Intersting, from the PDF you attached ...

    It's called plausible deniability.  SSPX agreed with the book, thus permitting it to be published without insisting upon corrections, but wanted to distance themselves from any blowback that might result.

    No doubt about it. 

    This is the SSPX's modus operandi (e.g., they used the same tactic with Fr. Paul Robinson's book, which despite promoting, was published outside its own publishing entities for the same reason).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #5 on: March 19, 2023, 01:07:48 PM »
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  • So if they're underselling the opposition to the NOM, could it be preliminary to accepting some kind of hybrid arrangement, where a reformed Tridentine Mass would be accepted by SSPX?

    Mr. Chaussee (in the attached docuмent, pp. 16-18):


    4 - WHERE DOES THIS LEAD US?

    Let us now imagine what will become of the liturgical situation in France where we know the spirit of independence of the bishops.

    As Celier predicts, the liturgical situation will not be simplified; we will move from the current biritualism to "a liturgical offer of incredible diversity". In short, we are moving towards a "situation of generalized anarchy" (p. 197).

    To get out of it, what does he propose? Nothing good, as far as we can tell. He imagines that a hybrid rite could be born which he calls "Pipaule Mass", a mixture of the rite "Pius" and the rite "Paul", the Mass of Saint Pius V and the Mass of Paul VI, which could be used by young priests to "refound in tradition the new liturgy which they celebrate in public" (p. 196). But also to "improve by mixing" the rite they prefer according to the worrying option that Benedict XVI calls "mutual enrichment".

    He imagines using the very open character of the new liturgy to "propose many variants" by "allowing the maximum number of borrowings from tradition" (p. 200). He still imagines that "the new Mass would be irrigated with the riches of the traditional liturgy"[again the mixing!], but he "does not imagine that this spiritual Jєωel that is the traditional liturgy will cease to be celebrated" (p. 201).

    Let us hope that the attentive reader will have noticed (p. 196), the cloven hoof of the Evil One who can be seen under the cassock in the proposal of the hybrid mass. "Pipaule" is pronounced as people which gives "people mass" or popular mass ! as we speak of the "people press" to say scandalous press. We would laugh about it if the subject allowed it. Well, that word alone should have drawn a censor's attention to everything behind this suggestion to make a hybrid (sterile, one more) of the Holy Mass and the new Mass.

    We ask the reader to forgive us for sharing with him the disgust we felt when we read and reread this irresponsible speech in order to grasp its full meaning. We will not say anything about the fundamental questions it raises that would take us too far. But let us return to simple common sense; he tells us that it makes no sense to move away from reality and treat the sacred as being only trivial; and that it makes no sense to hope to get out of disorder by freeing the imagination from control.

    By the way, let us say a word about another proposal for a mixed mass made by another priest: On a provisional basis, and to familiarize the conciliar faithful with the Tridentine Mass, it could be said in the vernacular language and on a "table versus populum". This is very similar to the Celier proposal to "reverse the path of rupture". However, it cannot be by preserving the innovations which, in 1970, desacralized the Mass - namely the table to the assembly and the vulgar language - that we will contribute to resacralising the liturgy and making the faithful (Protestant and ignorant) aware of the supernatural richness of the Holy Mystery, which will sooner or later have to be exposed to them before false pastors convince them by the new theology, of the equivalence of the two rituals. In French as in Latin, a mystery remains impenetrable, and fatal causes will never be transformed into favourable causes by the mere accompaniment of the Roman rite. Thus the "pipaule" mass, like any other "crossbreeding", would certainly increase the liturgical disorder by adding a new "mass" (?) to that of Saint Pius V, and to the four versions of Paul VI, without taking into account the multiple improvised and unofficial versions. So we would have more than five bad or dangerous variants for one good one!

    In conclusion, and without saying it clearly, Celier suggests imitating the priests of Campos (Brazil), who have obtained a personalized "Apostolic Administration" (p. 214), and above all, the Institute of the Good Shepherd (Bordeaux), which he mentions favourably on several occasions (pages 192-193; 209; 215-216 and 221) and whose founder, Father Philippe Laguérie (p. 176), he defends, although he has made his personal contribution to the exclusion of this frontier priest 42. But Father Laguérie, in his Blog and his newsletter Le Mascaret, is very pleased with the publication of Pichon et Celier's book. This proves the objective alliance between them. And when Celier says: "Let's be clear. I do not agree with the Institute of the Good Shepherd, otherwise I would be a member of it", this is a gratuitous statement and should not be believed either clear or sincere. It is clear, on the contrary, that with regard to the subject of this book - the rallying of traditionalists in Rome - Celier agrees with the PBI, but tactically, to persuade the faithful of the Brotherhood to accept the offers of Rome, it is better that it says the opposite; and strategically, it is obviously more useful to the cause of the rally by remaining in the Brotherhood than by joining the PBI. That's what his book proves.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #6 on: March 19, 2023, 01:24:57 PM »
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  • We close by again recalling Mr. Chaussee's summary of Fr. Celier's 1987 essay (reposted by Ladislaus above), now for sale for sale by Angelus Press to English-language readers:

    "1987 - Grégoire Celier, The Ecuмenical Dimension of Liturgical Reform. Editions FIDELITER, Le Pointet, Escurolles. © G. CELIER.

    It is the work of a scholar who has accuмulated more than 300 quotations, most of which are contrary to traditional doctrine, but none of which are corrected by a reminder of the truth. Thus, in the foreground, a quotation from Archbishop Annibale Bugnini (but of course!):

    "Liturgical reform is a great conquest of the Catholic Church, with important ecuмenical repercussions; not only has it aroused the admiration of other Churches and Christian communities, but it also represents a kind of model for them. » (1974).

    But Celier forgets to say that in 1975, we discovered with amazement that Archbishop Bugnini was a Freemason! In his Letter to Friends and Benefactors No. 10, Bishop Lefebvre wrote: "When we learn in Rome that he who was the soul of the liturgical reform is a Freemason, we can think that he is not the only one. The veil that covers the greatest mystification of clerics and the faithful has probably begun to be torn. "A revealing omission, twenty years ago already.

    This book could be signed by a progressive conciliarist or by a Protestant. The warning contains no criticisms of neo-Modernist ecuмenism and there is no reference to the encyclical Mortalium Animos of Pius XI, (1928) condemning this modern ecuмenism. Obviously, the author has forgotten the Apostle's precept: "I implore you... insist in time and against time, correct, correct, threaten, exhort, always with patience and instruction. " (II Timothy 4:1-2).

    So how could this pernicious book be allowed to be published when it was a lying by omission?"
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline songbird

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #7 on: March 19, 2023, 02:07:39 PM »
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  • Thank you so much for this post.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #8 on: March 19, 2023, 04:16:52 PM »
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  • Mr. Chaussee (in the attached docuмent, pp. 16-18):

    4 - WHERE DOES THIS LEAD US?

    Let us now imagine what will become of the liturgical situation in France where we know the spirit of independence of the bishops.

    As Celier predicts, the liturgical situation will not be simplified; we will move from the current biritualism to "a liturgical offer of incredible diversity". In short, we are moving towards a "situation of generalized anarchy" (p. 197).

    To get out of it, what does he propose? Nothing good, as far as we can tell. He imagines that a hybrid rite could be born which he calls "Pipaule Mass", a mixture of the rite "Pius" and the rite "Paul", the Mass of Saint Pius V and the Mass of Paul VI, which could be used by young priests to "refound in tradition the new liturgy which they celebrate in public" (p. 196). But also to "improve by mixing" the rite they prefer according to the worrying option that Benedict XVI calls "mutual enrichment".

    He imagines using the very open character of the new liturgy to "propose many variants" by "allowing the maximum number of borrowings from tradition" (p. 200). He still imagines that "the new Mass would be irrigated with the riches of the traditional liturgy"[again the mixing!], but he "does not imagine that this spiritual Jєωel that is the traditional liturgy will cease to be celebrated" (p. 201).

    So I may have guessed correctly above (hadn't gotten this far in the attachment, just to about page 3).  Of course, my speculation wasn't about whether Fr. Celier believed in a hybrid rite, but about why SSPX would release the book now, yet the speculation assumed that Fr. Celier would have promoted a hybrid rite.

    Of course, to pre-program or pre-condition the faithful regarding the acceptance of a hybrid rite, they would have to do more than re-release this book, which maybe .1% of the SSPX faithful would read.  Perhaps they'd use this as a textbook at St. Mary's and you'd start hearing about hybrid rites from the pulpit.  We might hear from SSPX how Archbishop Lefebvre used the 1965 hybrid rite (though you won't hear that he later rejected it).  So the book itself can't propagandize the faithful sufficiently, but it migth be a first step.  Motu types will of course accept this, and if SSPX accept it also, then there's no problem with driving Motarians over to SSPX.  Despite the outward smells and bells, and the accidental trappings that would make the faithful think that it's "basically the Tridentine Mass" (such as the old Confiteor and NO Anaphora I, which is in fact nearly identical to the Tridentine Canon).  IT'S ALL ABOUT THE OFFERTORY (the part of the Mass Luther most despised), but the faithful aren't generally smart enough to see that.

    They could keep the old Confiteor (which the faithful would recite with the priest as he faces them), swap the Roman Canon for the Novus Ordo Anaphora I (just leave out or don't use Anaphoras II-IV), keep Gregorian chant, etc. ... but wipe the Offetory in favor of the NOM тαℓмυd passage and use the NOM prayers for Collects, etc. (that, as Fr. Cekada's book explains, have most vetigest of Traditional Catholicism wiped out).  Most of the SSPX faithful would probably go along with that.  Introduce smatterings of the vernacular, such as at readings (why NOT do those) in the "language of the people"?  Have the priest face the people.  Once they get used to this, perhaps next step is to have a layman wearing a cassock do the first reading, throw in a responsorial psalm between the readings (people are already used to dialoging), maybe add a second reading.  Then a few years later, it'll be the NOM and frog will have been boiled.  But, as I said, KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE OFFERTORY.  When Luther was trying to bamboozle simple faithful, he kept certain parts of the Tridentine Mass that he knew would cause the people to reject it, so he too kept some of the original trappings there to suck people in.

    Jorge is definitely dead set on outlawing and elminating the Tridentine Mass, and yet he knows SSPX will not accept the NOM (since it would destroy a large part of their raison d'etre for the faithful), so I wonder if there's some back-channel talk that Jorge is preparing a Novus Ordized hybrid rite that still nevertheless is not inimical with the "spirit of Vatican II".  Latin, smells and bells (incense and Gregorian chant), Mass versus populum (could this explain the SSPX obsession with freestanding altars in their new building projects?), dialog Mass, readings in the vernacular, and removal of the Offertory in place of the blasphemous тαℓмυdic table prayer.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #9 on: March 19, 2023, 04:37:06 PM »
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  • Jorge:  "Look, SSPX", we have a new Rite of Mass here that, if you accept, you can be in full communion with (Call Me) Jorge."  You can start by having the priest go around the other side of the altar at St. Mary's.  For starters, though, we'll give you a dispensation at the other churches where there's no such altar.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #10 on: March 19, 2023, 04:41:41 PM »
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  • So I may have guessed correctly above (hadn't gotten this far in the attachment, just to about page 3).  Of course, my speculation wasn't about whether Fr. Celier believed in a hybrid rite, but about why SSPX would release the book now, yet the speculation assumed that Fr. Celier would have promoted a hybrid rite.

    Of course, to pre-program or pre-condition the faithful regarding the acceptance of a hybrid rite, they would have to do more than re-release this book, which maybe .1% of the SSPX faithful would read.  Perhaps they'd use this as a textbook at St. Mary's and you'd start hearing about hybrid rites from the pulpit.  We might hear from SSPX how Archbishop Lefebvre used the 1965 hybrid rite (though you won't hear that he later rejected it).  So the book itself can't propagandize the faithful sufficiently, but it migth be a first step.  Motu types will of course accept this, and if SSPX accept it also, then there's no problem with driving Motarians over to SSPX.  Despite the outward smells and bells, and the accidental trappings that would make the faithful think that it's "basically the Tridentine Mass" (such as the old Confiteor and NO Anaphora I, which is in fact nearly identical to the Tridentine Canon).  IT'S ALL ABOUT THE OFFERTORY (the part of the Mass Luther most despised), but the faithful aren't generally smart enough to see that.

    They could keep the old Confiteor (which the faithful would recite with the priest as he faces them), swap the Roman Canon for the Novus Ordo Anaphora I (just leave out or don't use Anaphoras II-IV), keep Gregorian chant, etc. ... but wipe the Offetory in favor of the NOM тαℓмυd passage and use the NOM prayers for Collects, etc. (that, as Fr. Cekada's book explains, have most vetigest of Traditional Catholicism wiped out).  Most of the SSPX faithful would probably go along with that.  Introduce smatterings of the vernacular, such as at readings (why NOT do those) in the "language of the people"?  Have the priest face the people.  Once they get used to this, perhaps next step is to have a layman wearing a cassock do the first reading, throw in a responsorial psalm between the readings (people are already used to dialoging), maybe add a second reading.  Then a few years later, it'll be the NOM and frog will have been boiled.  But, as I said, KEEP YOUR EYES ON THE OFFERTORY.  When Luther was trying to bamboozle simple faithful, he kept certain parts of the Tridentine Mass that he knew would cause the people to reject it, so he too kept some of the original trappings there to suck people in.

    Jorge is definitely dead set on outlawing and elminating the Tridentine Mass, and yet he knows SSPX will not accept the NOM (since it would destroy a large part of their raison d'etre for the faithful), so I wonder if there's some back-channel talk that Jorge is preparing a Novus Ordized hybrid rite that still nevertheless is not inimical with the "spirit of Vatican II".  Latin, smells and bells (incense and Gregorian chant), Mass versus populum (could this explain the SSPX obsession with freestanding altars in their new building projects?), dialog Mass, readings in the vernacular, and removal of the Offertory in place of the blasphemous тαℓмυdic table prayer.

    [Someone “scraped” my old Sodalitium Pianum blog back when it was active, and a few months ago uploaded it without permission, though I’m told some posts seem to be missing and/or are inaccessible (probably the ones about the Jєωs).  Since there’s nothing I can do about it, might as well quote from it.]

    Here’s Part I of an article I wrote in late 2017 showing the SSPX possibly preparing the terrain for a hybrid Mass:

    https://sodalitium-pianum.com/sspx-preparing-for-the-1965-missal/
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #11 on: March 19, 2023, 04:43:56 PM »
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  • [Someone “scraped” my old Sodalitium Pianum blog back when it was active, and a few months ago uploaded it without permission, though I’m told some posts seem to be missing (probably the ones about the Jєωs).  Since there’s nothing I can do about it, might as well quote from it.]

    Here’s Part I of an article showing the SSPX possibly preparing the terrain for a hybrid Mass:

    https://sodalitium-pianum.com/sspx-preparing-for-the-1965-missal/

    I think you might really be onto something here, Sean.  Great detective work.  Re-release of this book would have gone unnoticed by most of us.

    Originally the book was (as far as I understand) not published officially by SSPX, but now here we find it printed/sold by The Angelus Press.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #12 on: March 19, 2023, 05:22:24 PM »
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  • I think you might really be onto something here, Sean.  Great detective work.  Re-release of this book would have gone unnoticed by most of us.

    Originally the book was (as far as I understand) not published officially by SSPX, but now here we find it printed/sold by The Angelus Press.

    Thanks Lad.

    Just a clarification:

    This 1987 book by Fr. Celier now being republished by Angelus Press regarding ecuмenism in the liturgical reform was originally published by Fideliter (ie., the Angelus Press equivalent of the French District, and which in fact was directed by Fr. Celier for many years).

    The 2007 book by Fr. Celier (Benedict XVI and the Traditionalists) was not published by the SSPX.

    Regarding the former, the observations of Mr. Chaussee are troubling (ie., Fr. Celine’s omission to juxtapose Catholic teaching to the liturgical errors the book ostensibly opposes).

    In both books, Mr. Chaussee -a serious and respected scholar and author, until his death- uncovers and exposes them as strategies contrived to bring the SSPX into Rome, to the detriment of the Faith and souls (precisely as one might expect from a GREC man).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #13 on: March 19, 2023, 05:50:58 PM »
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  • Thanks for the clarification, Sean, and I would definitely keep an eye out for some movement in SSPX toward a hybrid Mass.  There's no doubt Bergoglio et al. still want to re-absorb the SSPX.  If they completely ban the Tridentine Mass, it would swell the ranks of SSPX as probably a fair percentage of Motarians would switch over.  They still have their various canonical agreements going, jurisdiction for Confessions, NO presiders witnessing marriages, etc.  So Bergoglio is probably hatching a plan, in consultation with +Fellay, about how to make the transition.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX's Most Dangerous Man
    « Reply #14 on: March 19, 2023, 06:15:01 PM »
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  • Thanks for the clarification, Sean, and I would definitely keep an eye out for some movement in SSPX toward a hybrid Mass.  There's no doubt Bergoglio et al. still want to re-absorb the SSPX.  If they completely ban the Tridentine Mass, it would swell the ranks of SSPX as probably a fair percentage of Motarians would switch over.  They still have their various canonical agreements going, jurisdiction for Confessions, NO presiders witnessing marriages, etc.  So Bergoglio is probably hatching a plan, in consultation with +Fellay, about how to make the transition.

    Perhaps Bergoglio did not abandon BXVI's "long game" after all.

    Its just a different long game:

    Where BXVI wanted to bring everyone into the conciliar church up front/right away, and let "reconciliation" work its magic against their faith, perhaps Bergoglio's plan is to eradicate all the indultarians from the conciliar church up front, and bring them all in the back door over time (e.g., through a compromised SSPX prelature, in which the SSPX will be severely compromised, liturgically and then doctrinally: lex orandi, lex credendi).

    For those who defect to the SSPX, the hybrid Mass (something very close to the 1965 missal, a la Celier's "Pipaule" Mass) will prepare them for full acceptance of the Novus Ordo.

    Michael Davies: “Likewise, the 1965 Missal was intended to condition the faithful into accepting without protest the radically reformed Missal of 1969.”
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."