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Author Topic: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel  (Read 4067 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
« on: June 28, 2018, 09:15:36 AM »
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  • Yesterday I sold something on Craigslist to a man. He asked me where I went to church and I told him the Catholic Church on X street. He told me that he knew the place and attended mass there a year ago for about 10 weeks. He was very well versed on the NWO, and so we had a long conversation about the solution, which to me is only the true faith lived. I won't go into everything, but to say that I spoke clearly to him about the faith. One point I stressed was that one must be in a state of grace to be able to think clearly and discern truth, and the only way to be in a state of grace is to go to Confession on a continual basis for the slightest sin. That as we go more and more to Confession we begin to see sins we did not see as sins before, as God's grace enlightens us. That's just one point. We talked a long time. I hope it gets him to come back.

    This morning I thought to myself, what if he comes back? What will that help? Not a soul in our chapel has grown in the faith as a result of the pastor, in fact I would say that most have declined and have been scandalized. The people who  were already strong in the faith and knowledge, are doing alright because they teach themselves, they can go without a pastor to teach them, but those that are not fully taught, will stagnate or retrogress with exposer to the pastor.

    It is a sad situation, like recommending someone to come back to the Church when the only place they can go is the Novus Ordo. Oh, well, God wills it this way. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #1 on: June 28, 2018, 09:31:56 AM »
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  • Yesterday I sold something on Craigslist to a man. He asked me where I went to church and I told him the Catholic Church on X street. He told me that he knew the place and attended mass there a year ago for about 10 weeks. He was very well versed on the NWO, and so we had a long conversation about the solution, which to me is only the true faith lived. I won't go into everything, but to say that I spoke clearly to him about the faith. One point I stressed was that one must be in a state of grace to be able to think clearly and discern truth, and the only way to be in a state of grace is to go to Confession on a continual basis for the slightest sin. That as we go more and more to Confession we begin to see sins we did not see as sins before, as God's grace enlightens us. That's just one point. We talked a long time. I hope it gets him to come back.

    This morning I thought to myself, what if he comes back? What will that help? Not a soul in our chapel has grown in the faith as a result of the pastor, in fact I would say that most have declined and have been scandalized. The people who  were already strong in the faith and knowledge, are doing alright because they teach themselves, they can go without a pastor to teach them, but those that are not fully taught, will stagnate or retrogress with exposer to the pastor.

    It is a sad situation, like recommending someone to come back to the Church when the only place they can go is the Novus Ordo. Oh, well, God wills it this way.
    .
    Similar experience here...
    .
    When we encourage people to find the true Faith, I don't know where to send them to mass...
    .
    I usually just send them to sspx because it is a step in the right direction, but I also try to keep in touch with them and encourage them to come when we have an independent priest in town.
    .
    We may be the lifeboat God is sending the person.  We do the best we can, with prudence, and God will sort the rest out.


    Offline Carissima

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #2 on: June 28, 2018, 09:55:53 AM »
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  • Yesterday I sold something on Craigslist to a man. He asked me where I went to church and I told him the Catholic Church on X street. He told me that he knew the place and attended mass there a year ago for about 10 weeks. He was very well versed on the NWO, and so we had a long conversation about the solution, which to me is only the true faith lived. I won't go into everything, but to say that I spoke clearly to him about the faith. One point I stressed was that one must be in a state of grace to be able to think clearly and discern truth, and the only way to be in a state of grace is to go to Confession on a continual basis for the slightest sin. That as we go more and more to Confession we begin to see sins we did not see as sins before, as God's grace enlightens us. That's just one point. We talked a long time. I hope it gets him to come back.

    This morning I thought to myself, what if he comes back? What will that help? Not a soul in our chapel has grown in the faith as a result of the pastor, in fact I would say that most have declined and have been scandalized. The people who  were already strong in the faith and knowledge, are doing alright because they teach themselves, they can go without a pastor to teach them, but those that are not fully taught, will stagnate or retrogress with exposer to the pastor.

    It is a sad situation, like recommending someone to come back to the Church when the only place they can go is the Novus Ordo. Oh, well, God wills it this way.
    Having a good priest is a benefit to The Faith no doubt, but souls that attend Mass at a Traditional Mass Chapel do still have The Sacraments which are far superior Gifts than any great sermon or spiritual guidace from an awesome Priest. 

    I believe it is the poor soul attached to their own personal sins and then refusing God’s grace that He lovingly offers to them from The Sacraments that is the ultimate cause of the loss of Faith. 

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #3 on: June 28, 2018, 10:17:51 AM »
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  • Quote
    I believe it is the poor soul attached to their own personal sins and then refusing God’s grace that He lovingly offers to them from The Sacraments that is the ultimate cause of the loss of Faith. 
    Agree!  Most of the saints learned wisdom and received graces through the sacraments, through prayer and in contemplation of God, not from the weekly homily or meetings with priests.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #4 on: June 28, 2018, 10:47:04 AM »
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  • Yes, God provides for those of good will who truly seek Him, always willing to give up everything that is not pleasing to Him.

    I changed my whole life and came back to the Church from the world.  I knew nothing about the faith, except filial fear of God. I can see God’s hand in every step, he provided all the teachers in books and good priests who lived their vow of poverty.  Not once was I deceived by even the counterfeit Novus Ordo, which I only attended for like 2 months before I discovered tradition. Even from my first day in the Novus ordo, I questioned everything, I immediately saw that it was not of truth. This could only be from God, as I knew NOTHING about the faith.

    I just feel sorry for those that do not have the help of a good pastor, but the hindrance of a hireling. It is a sad affair.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #5 on: June 28, 2018, 10:52:08 AM »
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  • Agree!  Most of the saints learned wisdom and received graces through the sacraments, through prayer and in contemplation of God, not from the weekly homily or meetings with priests.
    This is true Pax, yet "faith then cometh by hearing..." (Rom 10:17) and while some SSPX chapels, including mine, have mostly good sermons, from the many reports like LT's, we cannot deny that others within the SSPX have a decided lack of good sermons.

    In this crisis, we must have great faith, and hearing strong sermons regarding the true faith is something we all need because that helps us to grow in and strengthen our faith - and it does not matter if one just woke up or has been a trad their whole life, we do need to hear the clear truths of our faith preached from the pulpits - and sadly, it is clear that the SSPX, depending on which chapel you go to, often times fails in that regard.   
     
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #6 on: June 28, 2018, 11:20:41 AM »
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  • With respect to these sermons, can someone give me an example?  Are they just avoiding speaking the Truth (ie. speaking anti-Vatican II) or are they actually teaching the Novus Ordo religion?
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #7 on: June 28, 2018, 11:28:40 AM »
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  • Good sermons on Sundays is just part of it. I was blessed to have a really good priest for a few years and he gave mediocre sermons and he was mediocre in the confessional too. However, he was a real person who cared for your salvation and your life. He lived in poverty and gave every penny he had to help others. He was always teaching his parishioners by his example and seeing and talking with them. He really cared.  No, it takes much more than a good sermon on Sunday to make a good priest.

    A good priest goes to see his parishioners and how they live and genuinely cares for them.  

    The pastor of my chapel only goes to the homes of the rich (like the same three families, plus any new prospects), to drink fine liquors and eat 8 course meals and fawn over them to keep the donation stream going to pay for his own house,  gardens, fine liquors, 8 course meals, and servants. Practically a Sunday does not go by where he does not complain about the donations of the other parishioners, never seeing or knowing that they live from hand to mouth every day, while he lives like a rich man.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #8 on: June 28, 2018, 11:35:54 AM »
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  • Quote
    This is true Pax, yet "faith then cometh by hearing..." (Rom 10:17) and while some SSPX chapels, including mine, have mostly good sermons, from the many reports like LT's, we cannot deny that others within the SSPX have a decided lack of good sermons.
    Plenty of good books in existence, with sermons from all time periods in the Church, which do not go out of style, since Truth does not change.  Hearing the Faith is necessary, but when St Paul wrote that phrase, they didn't have the technology of books and mass-printing.  We do.  I think books can take the place of sermons and in many cases, be superior, since a book contains thoughts of SAINTS vs current priests (many of whom don't have the time that the saints did to formulate sermons), and many sermons today are very inadequate, (and this is not the priests' fault) due to time pressures, travel and barely-adequate seminary training.  God did not leave us orphans in our quasi-persecution times.  Get some good books!

    Offline Croix de Fer

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #9 on: June 28, 2018, 11:36:26 AM »
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  • God wills it this way.
    Wrong. God allows it (the errors & wickedness of the world), but He doesn't will it. God's will is rarely done by people, which is why the world is in its very decline.

    When we pray the Our Father, the part "Thy Will be done..." is asking for the grace to do His will, but most people still reject it, hence, they, and the world they build, are the antithesis of the Kingdom of Heaven.  
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #10 on: June 28, 2018, 12:22:00 PM »
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  • Plenty of good books in existence, with sermons from all time periods in the Church, which do not go out of style, since Truth does not change.  Hearing the Faith is necessary, but when St Paul wrote that phrase, they didn't have the technology of books and mass-printing.  We do.  I think  since a book contains thoughts of SAINTS vs current priests (many of whom don't have the time that the saints did to formulate sermons), and many sermons today are very inadequate, (and this is not the priests' fault) due to time pressures, travel and barely-adequate seminary training.  God did not leave us orphans in our quasi-persecution times.  Get some good books!
    I don't disagree, there are books that certainly can take the place of sermons and in many cases be superior, yet whenever any one goes to an SSPX chapel, they *should* hear a sermon that fortifies and strengthens their faith, not hear a sermon that leaves them feeling nothing at all, or still hungry or starved - because we are speaking of something we need.

    If the priest is going to interrupt the Mass for a sermon at all, then the sermon ought to always be worthy of the interruption.      
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #11 on: June 28, 2018, 01:50:46 PM »
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  • Wrong. God allows it (the errors & wickedness of the world), but He doesn't will it. God's will is rarely done by people, which is why the world is in its very decline.

    When we pray the Our Father, the part "Thy Will be done..." is asking for the grace to do His will, but most people still reject it, hence, they, and the world they build, are the antithesis of the Kingdom of Heaven.  
    True, that is correct. God allows it for some reason.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #12 on: June 28, 2018, 01:57:59 PM »
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  • Wrong. God allows it (the errors & wickedness of the world), but He doesn't will it. God's will is rarely done by people, which is why the world is in its very decline.

    When we pray the Our Father, the part "Thy Will be done..." is asking for the grace to do His will, but most people still reject it, hence, they, and the world they build, are the antithesis of the Kingdom of Heaven.  
    Why was this post down-thumbed...twice??
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #13 on: June 28, 2018, 01:59:45 PM »
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  • How many times I've heard and read about the pastor going to everyone's house like once a month, to see all his parishioners and talk about their problems, life, and the faith. How many vocations came from the priests example to the children he would meet at home and church. I knew many priests like this. Haven't seen one in like 10 years it seems. I think the SSPX as a policy is restricting the priests socializing with lay people.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Spiritual Dead End at My SSPX Chapel
    « Reply #14 on: June 28, 2018, 02:55:26 PM »
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  • At the SSPX chapel I attended until 2014, the pastor did the same thing; went to eat and hang out after mass with the seven or eight wealthy families and maide scolding comments about the stinginess of most parishioners.  Extra events at the chapel the last few years were only for the rich or childless.  For example, an evening dinner followed by a chamber orchestra, $100 a plate!  But it was all for a good cause we were told when people protested.  Numerous times various people of lesser means or with children tried to organize a family picnic, barbecue, or a movie or game night.  These never happened because the wealthy people Father put in charge of the social events turned them down as not profitable enough.  There were other very serious problems, on-going I’m told, that cut the attendance down to to a quarter of attendees in the early 2000s.  
    I tried awhile ago, without much success, to track down the families and individuals who left or were driven away.  A few went to the Pius V, to the indult, a surprising number back to a “conservative” novus ordo, but most have seemingly vanished.  There’s no resistance mass anywhere close, about 250 miles(!) and no gathering of “home aloners.”
    I honestly don’t know what I could tell a person who was interested in becoming Catholic except to move. I would not tell him to go to the SSPX because he'd get a chilly reception when he says who referred him!  (I was one of those driven away, not because of doing anything sinful, but because of social and family connections.  I had to “confess” to corresponding with a certain priest and promise to never attend his masses or those of his associates, also, to cease my friendship with another priest’s sister and family!  When I refused, I was told to leave and not return.)

    However, keep in mind that the priest does not save souls; that’s the job of the Holy Ghost.  Unfortunately, I don’t have any such dilemma, personally.  I haven’t encountered anyone at all receptive to becoming Catholic.  The people I’m around, elderly parents excepted, are outright hostile to the Church, to the point where it is imprudent to mention it.  (Casting pearls before swine) The likely response is for them to blaspheme, so I remain silent unless obedience demands I speak out.
    The only thing to be done is to pray, and I’d advise your friend to pray the Rosary before recommending a certain chapel or priest.  Our Lady will guide them to the right place if that is her Son’s Will.