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Author Topic: Sometimes an example is best  (Read 2379 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Sometimes an example is best
« on: February 03, 2017, 09:30:09 AM »
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  • When a priest is committing a grave, public scandal (such as keeping around an apostate and shady character as Vice Rector, or misappropriating funds, or slandering good bishops and priests) then one has an obligation to speak up and say something, for the public good.

    But it's good to have a NEGATIVE EXAMPLE -- of what I'm *not* talking about, when I speak of grave matters affecting the public good, and the necessity of speaking publicly about them.

    So what would it look like if someone were just NIT PICKING on, say, Fr. Pfeiffer? Or just confusing PERSONAL OPINION / PETTY DISAGREEMENT with something worth publicly criticizing an ordained priest of God?

    Well, here is an example from one of the Pfeiffer cult micro-forums, posted by "Maccabees".

    Quote
    Fr. Chazal put in his seminary a new altar with built-in closets or storage with distinct door handles on it. I have never seen such a thing in a religious house. This is not a hotel or mission in a home. This is a new traditional catholic altar purposely made for the ceremonies of the seminary.

    One can say they need storage for such liturgical functions. I would respond you missed the point. The function is to be an ALTAR of our Lord; a singular spiritual event where the God of Hosts comes from Heaven to be a King on a THRONE; not a laundry closet. Out of all the space Fr. Chazal has on his new property and constructions of new buildings he is doing, nothing can be done on the side wall to make a little room or small storage of the SAME dimensions in another place? It doesn't make sense. Please!

    Here is a youtube video showing the altar behind Fr. Chazal.


    Give me a break!

    Maccabees is the one missing the point. When God comes down from heaven, even the main altar at St. Peter's in Rome or Notre Dame in Paris is a massive step down -- pretty much a laundry closet, compared to God's throne in Heaven!

    If that's all the SSPX were doing (let's say they were doing this in every SSPX chapel, but making zero moves towards liberalism) I would not only attend my SSPX chapel this Sunday, but I would never have left, not even for a day!

    If Fr. Pfeiffer's greatest crime were described above, then I wouldn't say a word in criticism of him, plus I wouldn't let anyone else either, since they obviously would have nothing legitimate to criticize!

    We just built an altar a few months ago for St. Dominic's chapel. Let me tell you, a full sized wooden altar is a huge piece of furniture. There is a lot of hollow space inside. What's wrong with storing some sacred items discretely inside a side panel or back panel? The handle for the door could be quite discreet -- even hidden. I'm not talking about storing cans of soup or ammunition in there -- that would seem wrong. But storing altar linens, spare brass candlesticks for different seasons, the supply of beeswax candles, incense, a spare chalice, etc.? Those items are either consecrated, or virtually consecrated (dedicated for use on the altar).

    Next thing Maccabees is going to complain that VERMIN -- ACTUAL WORMS -- are squirming around under the floor of the building (under the foundation, in the dirt), under the place where the MOST HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS is being offered. To the emotional, that doesn't seem fitting at first glance either! But when you THINK about it for a minute, it doesn't seem bad at all.

    Talk about a Pharisee! God is not that superficial. God is always more concerned about what is inside rather than the outside of the cup. As long as the priest is valid, the rubrics are faithfully followed (including the use of 3 altar cloths and an altar stone, or Greek corporal which is used at most mission sites), and the altar is a fitting shape for the offering of Mass upon it, then it doesn't matter.

    Let us also remember that even Fr. Chazal's "professional seminary altar" is still very much a makeshift lifeboat. His seminary is nothing like you would find in New York in the 1950's. And I'm sure space is a lot tighter than Maccabees would realize or admit. You can't just put a storage closet anywhere, without getting in the way of parishioners, altar servers, or being an eyesore.

    As the coordinator of a 1000 sq. foot chapel, I would know.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Sometimes an example is best
    « Reply #1 on: February 03, 2017, 09:42:29 AM »
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  • To summarize:

    You won't see that kind of nit-picking BS on CathInfo, not against ANY priest. I don't care who the priest is, or what group he represents. If anything ever slips by me, please send me an e-mail or PM and I'll deal with it right away.

    There are things that matter, and things that don't matter.

    You can't just call everything "touching on the public good", even when it makes no difference whatsoever.

    Another example: posting the non-profit corporation income statements of a priest or group, and suggesting that a priest is bad because
    A) he has a "corporation" -- hey, he must be evil like Monsanto or Disney!
    B) he must be Judas Iscariot because he has more than 30 pieces of silver in the income column.

    If a SINGLE WIDOW died and donated her estate to a Trad group, that could bring in $250,000 income in one shot!

    So think about that next time you see the income statement of, say, a worldwide-famous priest or bishop showing a yearly donation income greater than $500,000.

    The real issues are: did he compromise to get that money, is he prioritizing money or the Faith, and what does he DO with that money. Does he live in luxury, or use it for a legitimate Catholic apostolate?

    Why doesn't Fr. Pfeiffer post his annual income statement? Is it because it would  spook his emotional, ignorant followers? Or would it take away one of their main attacking points against Bishop Williamson? I wonder how many dollars have been wasted on the Boston, KY "seminary" since its foundation? Talk about a complete waste of money! What does he have to show for it? His benefactors had to work hard to earn, and make sacrifices to donate that money; does he realize that?
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    Offline Matthew

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    Sometimes an example is best
    « Reply #2 on: February 03, 2017, 09:56:45 AM »
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  • Another example of "This priest is no longer part of the cult, so now he is my enemy. I just have to find something to criticize, so I can ruin him. But this priest is so darn CLEAN. I don't have anything on him! I guess I'll just have to work a bit harder, and be creative and resourceful, that's all."

    This shouldn't come as as surprise to anyone: after all, if these jokers are willing to slander Bishop Williamson, Fr. Zendejas, Fr. Voigt, etc. then why wouldn't they attack Fr. Chazal for no good reason as well?

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    Offline Matto

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    Sometimes an example is best
    « Reply #3 on: February 03, 2017, 11:04:40 AM »
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  • I don't think this is a big deal as far as problems with priests go. I have heard bad things about all kinds of traditional priests, SSPX, indult, sedevacantist, and resistance. But this doesn't seem important at all compared to the serious problems I have heard about. And it reminds me that I really like Father Chazal. Early on in the resistance there were a lot of videos of him on youtube and I watched so many of them and I learned a lot from him. But recently I can no longer find many new videos with him in them. I miss watching him. I wonder why he stopped posting videos of his sermons. Fathers Pfeiffer and Hewko post nearly all of their sermons on youtube and I watch them even though I do not really support those priests anymore. God bless Father Chazal.
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Sometimes an example is best
    « Reply #4 on: February 03, 2017, 01:20:27 PM »
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  • Better 'door handles' than 'more scandals'.


    Offline donkath

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    Sometimes an example is best
    « Reply #5 on: February 03, 2017, 05:47:35 PM »
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  • Well Matthew - at least you have made sure that Machabees can't reply to this as you have banned him.  
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline Matthew

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    Sometimes an example is best
    « Reply #6 on: February 03, 2017, 06:26:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: donkath
    Well Matthew - at least you have made sure that Machabees can't reply to this as you have banned him.  


    That's OK. I'm sure he'll respond on his own forum.

    Incidentally, it only looks like I "responded" to him. Normally I ignore his nonsense.

    But as an amateur teacher, I know the immense value of real-life examples to illustrate a point. Not only positive examples (to show what I'm talking about) but negative examples as well (to show what I'm NOT talking about). Using both positive and negative examples, it's much easier to transmit one's message.
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    Offline donkath

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    Sometimes an example is best
    « Reply #7 on: February 03, 2017, 08:28:22 PM »
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  • Oh I see.  It only looks like you responded when you responded.
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."


    Offline Defender

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    Sometimes an example is best
    « Reply #8 on: February 06, 2017, 12:56:56 PM »
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  • An altar cannot be used as a closet or storage. The following information from the Catholic Encyclopedia:


    “In every case the substructure may be a solid mass, or the interior may remain hollow, but this hollow space is not to be used as a closet for storing articles of any kind, even such as belong to the altar.”


    Source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01346a.htm






    Offline pbax

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    Sometimes an example is best
    « Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 11:45:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: Defender

    :
    “In every case the substructure may be a solid mass, or the interior may remain hollow, but this hollow space is not to be used as a closet for storing articles of any kind, even such as belong to the altar.”

    Source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01346a.htm




    Interesting  I just bought an Altar  from this site www.stjosephsapprentice.com.

    It is a travelling altar and has a compartment to store the altar accessories. You have me worried now. Anyone else have one?