Author Topic: Some Resistance Ironies: (Read 7607 times)

SeanJohnson · « **on:** November 24, 2013, 01:28:50 PM »

A couple weeks ago, I observed that the external resistance is now as opposed to the internal (i.e., "wait and see") resistance as it is to the accordistas and Menzingen.

One need only read the responses to my posts of recent weeks to see that claim is undeniable.

I found that to be quite ironic.

Since then, I have noticed a couple other ironies (which may or may not be specific to the St. Paul, MN resistance group, or not):

1) While lamenting the retaliatory measures they have received from Menzingen or Kansas City for voicing unpopular opinions about the emperor's new clothes, I received the same treatment from them by being removed from the local email notification for resistance Masses for voicing opinions not popular in Boston, KY (or St. Paul, not sure which).

In other words, please don't show up.

2) Can't pretend the AFD is official policy? Can't pretend the SSPX has the same official policy as the FSSP? Can't pretend this means you can't attend SSPX Masses? Can't pretend Bishop Fellay believes BXVI is the Pope and wants to start a schism to back him against Francis? Minimally, you can't dishonestly turn a blind eye to all this, or at least let it pass without comment?

Well, then you can't come to Mass here!

Sounds like very familiar rhetoric from the accordistas, does it not?

3) The SSPX is a danger to your faith, so you can't attend...........so we will just go the FSSP??? Nobody sees anything wrong with that? But that is precisely what several who have taken Fr. Pfeiffer's advice have done here in St. Paul. They won't step foot inside an SSPX chapel now, but have no issue frequenting priests questionably ordained by "Bishops" consecrated in the new rite, or who are bi-ritual, and who have no problem with Dignitatis Humanae, the hermeneutic of continuity, etc., etc. It is the height of irony to me that fidelity to the resistance party line, or dislike of Menzingen/Kansas City, results in packing the pews of the indult.

I find there are very few honest people left in the world.

Most (resistance or accordista) simply pick a side and defend it to the end.

Even when it should not be defended.

And if you should happen to mention or point out inconvenient truths which "hurt the cause," well, in the words of Fr. Rutledge, "Just go away."

I think the methods of the opposing parties have much in common with eachother.

Ecclesia Militans · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2013, 02:08:12 PM »

We have people who attend Masses celebrated by Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer at Our Lady of Good Success Chapel in Toronto, but who go to the local SSPX chapel when Fr. Pfeiffer is not in town. We have never threatened them. We have, however, discouraged continued attendance at SSPX Masses because of the change in principles and the corresponding actions.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #2 on:** November 24, 2013, 06:26:27 PM »

Is it me or does refusing to attend SSPX Masses sound a tad bit almost schismatic? Are they not Catholic now or something?

Frances · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2013, 06:46:27 PM »

Sean, I do not know who tells you where you may or may not hear Mass, but no such attitude exists, or, if it does, I've not encountered it in the Resistance chapel in Danbury, CT. The strongest statement I've heard to date is from a Resistance priest who told me that attendance at SSPX Mass "is no longer mandatory if no other option is available." He in no way forbids attendance or implies it is a sin. There are a fair number here in the northeast who have quit the SSPX for FSSP, CMRI, Pius V, and the local indult. A few have even gone back to the novus ordo. With these, the Resistance priests do not agree. Nonetheless, I have never seen anyone ostracised, judged, excluded or worse, denied the Sacraments and removed from email lists by the priests! Perhaps you have the misfortune of having to deal with a few Pharisaical types who make the whole look bad?
Perhaps we all need to remind ourselves for Whom we hear Mass. Do we go to worship God, or to take sides among men? If we are able to worship God and not endanger our Faith, then it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. Each must decide before God what is right. It is to Our Lord we shall answer.
(Note, no dancing banana!)

Militia Jesu · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2013, 09:41:46 PM »

Whoever, at this point in time, gives +Fellay the benefit of doubt and stubbornly defends the NSSPX has rewinded should be ashamed of himself for even being in a Resistance mail list/notification, but complaining to be taken out of it just reinforces how ironic our situation really is.

Lord have mercy!

Militia Jesu · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2013, 09:45:46 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Is it me or does refusing to attend SSPX Masses sound a tad bit almost schismatic? Are they not Catholic now or something?

I am glad to be in schism with the "Church of Bp. Fellay".

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2013, 09:47:04 PM »

Quote from: Militia Jesu

Whoever, at this point in time, gives +Fellay the benefit of doubt and stubbornly defends the NSSPX has rewinded should be ashamed of himself for even being in a Resistance mail list/notification, but complaining to be taken out of it just reinforces how ironic our situation really is.

Lord have mercy!

Reminds me of the accordistas who took exception that we backed the resistance, yet still attended SSPX Masses.

As I said, you have much in common with your opponents.

Machabees · « **Reply #7 on:** November 24, 2013, 09:59:26 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson

A couple weeks ago, I observed that the external resistance is now as opposed to the internal (i.e., "wait and see") resistance as it is to the accordistas and Menzingen.

One need only read the responses to my posts of recent weeks to see that claim is undeniable.

I found that to be quite ironic.

Since then, I have noticed a couple other ironies (which may or may not be specific to the St. Paul, MN resistance group, or not):

1) While lamenting the retaliatory measures they have received from Menzingen or Kansas City for voicing unpopular opinions about the emperor's new clothes, I received the same treatment from them by being removed from the local email notification for resistance Masses for voicing opinions not popular in Boston, KY (or St. Paul, not sure which).

In other words, please don't show up.

2) Can't pretend the AFD is official policy? Can't pretend the SSPX has the same official policy as the FSSP? Can't pretend this means you can't attend SSPX Masses? Can't pretend Bishop Fellay believes BXVI is the Pope and wants to start a schism to back him against Francis? Minimally, you can't dishonestly turn a blind eye to all this, or at least let it pass without comment?

Well, then you can't come to Mass here!

Sounds like very familiar rhetoric from the accordistas, does it not?

3) The SSPX is a danger to your faith, so you can't attend...........so we will just go the FSSP??? Nobody sees anything wrong with that? But that is precisely what several who have taken Fr. Pfeiffer's advice have done here in St. Paul. They won't step foot inside an SSPX chapel now, but have no issue frequenting priests questionably ordained by "Bishops" consecrated in the new rite, or who are bi-ritual, and who have no problem with Dignitatis Humanae, the hermeneutic of continuity, etc., etc. It is the height of irony to me that fidelity to the resistance party line, or dislike of Menzingen/Kansas City, results in packing the pews of the indult.

I find there are very few honest people left in the world.

Most (resistance or accordista) simply pick a side and defend it to the end.

Even when it should not be defended.

And if you should happen to mention or point out inconvenient truths which "hurt the cause," well, in the words of Fr. Rutledge, "Just go away."

I think the methods of the opposing parties have much in common with eachother.

SeanJohnson,

I will take your bait.

You, out of anyone, know the answer to this; especially after all of your good work of collecting many of the incriminating docuмents, articles, conferences of the compromises of the nsspx, as with the collection of writings from the “resistant priests” who have responded along with their articles within your pinned threads of: “Collection of Resistance Writings and Group for Reflection Among Catholics (GREC)”.

In other words the answer is right in front of you contrary to your “wait and see” position you have been trying to promote.

There is NO tolerance in Catholicism to “wait and see” when after 2-years of modernist compromises and Doctrinal errors that have been verified, explicitly exposed, docuмented, and publicly promoted by the [perpetrators] nsspx who state and declare that it is the same as Traditional Catholicism; as to “ape” God –is from the devil.

Sean this is war. The battle lines have been drawn by the nsspx. We are responding to the outrages against the Faith of God and Resist.

You [presently] choose to un-necessitate the act of responding. That is, in keeping in harmony of the facts with the necessity of act. Your recent threads and posts show this fight within yourself and within your conscience. You bring out “extremes” and try to “defend” your [new] position to “give benefits of the doubt” and “wait and see” ad nausium. Perhaps unknown to you, such a position continues the nsspx’s abuses and fosters their errors further.

There is NO choice to be faithful to the Faith or to our baptism…it is all or nothing!

Within Sacred Scripture there are numerous examples of the drama of fidelity or infidelity. The outcome is always the same from those who do the right or the wrong. There is NO choice for the nsspx, they must publicly desist from their defilement of the Faith -or it will be allowed by God to be defiled themselves- such is the case already.

After 2-years of reproaches, “wait and see” is for the tepid; like the Israelites in front of Goliath. St. Michael is all about defending the purity of God with act and the sword.

There are NO compromises with the devil…period.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #8 on:** November 24, 2013, 10:38:18 PM »

Quote from: Machabees

Sean this is war. The battle lines have been drawn by the nsspx. We are responding to the outrages against the Faith of God and Resist.

You [presently] choose to un-necessitate the act of responding. That is, in keeping in harmony of the facts with the necessity of act. Your recent threads and posts show this fight within yourself and within your conscience. You bring out “extremes” and try to “defend” your [new] position to “give benefits of the doubt” and “wait and see” ad nausium. Perhaps unknown to you, such a position continues the nsspx’s abuses and fosters their errors further.

May God have mercy on you Mach and anyone else who judges Mr. Johnson unfit to receive Holy Communion in your lofty presence.

Please re-read what you have written and reflect on the utter arrogance and lack of basic Catholic decency you promote.

How dare you delve into this man's conscience and judge him unfit to receive Holy Communion? This is exactly SSPV-speak. I can't believe my eyes.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #9 on:** November 24, 2013, 10:43:25 PM »

Quote from: Machabees

There are NO compromises with the devil…period.

It must be awesome to be a living saint among saints.

Machabees · « **Reply #10 on:** November 24, 2013, 10:51:32 PM »

Quote from: Elizabeth

Quote from: Machabees

Sean this is war. The battle lines have been drawn by the nsspx. We are responding to the outrages against the Faith of God and Resist.

You [presently] choose to un-necessitate the act of responding. That is, in keeping in harmony of the facts with the necessity of act. Your recent threads and posts show this fight within yourself and within your conscience. You bring out “extremes” and try to “defend” your [new] position to “give benefits of the doubt” and “wait and see” ad nausium. Perhaps unknown to you, such a position continues the nsspx’s abuses and fosters their errors further.

May God have mercy on you Mach and anyone else who judges Mr. Johnson unfit to receive Holy Communion in your lofty presence.

Please re-read what you have written and reflect on the utter arrogance and lack of basic Catholic decency you promote.

How dare you delve into this man's conscience and judge him unfit to receive Holy Communion? This is exactly SSPV-speak. I can't believe my eyes.

???

I wish you read with comprehension. I did not write about any such thing.

I have no such thoughts; I have put forward no such thoughts; they are fabricated from you.

Machabees · « **Reply #11 on:** November 24, 2013, 11:33:53 PM »

Quote from: Machabees

Quote from: Elizabeth
Quote from: Machabees

Sean this is war. The battle lines have been drawn by the nsspx. We are responding to the outrages against the Faith of God and Resist.

You [presently] choose to un-necessitate the act of responding. That is, in keeping in harmony of the facts with the necessity of act. Your recent threads and posts show this fight within yourself and within your conscience. You bring out “extremes” and try to “defend” your [new] position to “give benefits of the doubt” and “wait and see” ad nausium. Perhaps unknown to you, such a position continues the nsspx’s abuses and fosters their errors further.

May God have mercy on you Mach and anyone else who judges Mr. Johnson unfit to receive Holy Communion in your lofty presence.

Please re-read what you have written and reflect on the utter arrogance and lack of basic Catholic decency you promote.

How dare you delve into this man's conscience and judge him unfit to receive Holy Communion? This is exactly SSPV-speak. I can't believe my eyes.

???

I wish you read with comprehension. I did not write about any such thing.

I have no such thoughts; I have put forward no such thoughts; they are fabricated from you.

To add, my response and context is wholly base on SeanJohnson's opening statements of his irascible "wait and see" position:

"A couple weeks ago, I observed that the external resistance is now as opposed to the internal (i.e., "wait and see") resistance as it is to the accordistas and Menzingen.

One need only read the responses to my posts of recent weeks to see that claim is undeniable."

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #12 on:** November 25, 2013, 12:34:17 AM »

.

This new mantra of "external" vs. "internal" Resistance is getting
to be nauseating.

If this guy thinks it's going to catch on just because he's parading it
around with clamor and repetition, he's going to be disappointed.

And then he'll have another motive for getting upset, again.

What a woman.

.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #13 on:** November 25, 2013, 04:14:41 AM »

Neil-

Mr. internet courage.

Somehow, I can't imagine you talking like that to my face.

Coward.

cantatedomino · « **Reply #14 on:** November 25, 2013, 06:00:37 AM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson

I find there are very few honest people left in the world.

Too true.