Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Matthew on July 09, 2016, 10:15:18 PM
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Immaculate Conception Academy, Post Falls, ID
Sodomy Scandal at SSPX Boys School Academy
Two individuals wrote to me this evening about a huge scandal regarding sodomy at the SSPX chapel Immaculate Conception Academy (ICA), in Post Falls, ID. The boys school in question is associated with Immaculate Conception Church, the SSPX chapel nearby.
After St. Mary's, KS, the SSPX group in Post Falls is the 2nd largest SSPX "mecca" in the United States. I could be wrong, maybe it's only #3 or #4. But it's huge. It's more than just another SSPX Priory.
Besides the chapel (Immaculate Conception Church) they also have a school (Immaculate Conception Academy) and I believe the Dominican Sisters affiliated with the SSPX are nearby. It's a huge enclave of SSPX Traditional Catholics.
What a black eye for Fr. Vassal, Bishop Fellay, and the new liberal edition of the Society of St. Pius X (or neo-SSPX)!
To say that the scandal that I've referred to in Post Falls is huge is the understatement of the year.
I was about to reply to your recent post in the "priest transfers" thread, but I don't want to be the one to field all of the questions that will come up.
The parents of affected boys will be putting out a public letter soon. At least eight boys are confirmed to be actively involved in the unnatural vice, it's been going on for several years, taking place on the school premises, the pastor knew about it and covered it up and allegedly misled the parents multiple times, the district superior was aware of it, the police have an ongoing investigation going, parents are working on a lawsuit against the SSPX, ten families have pulled their boys out of the school, etc, etc. I've found out most of this info since a few days ago.
Another person wrote in:
Also, in the recent thread "SSPX Priest Transfers 2016", someone mentioned scandal at ICA, which led to the SSPX authorities at least *planning* to transfer Fr. Vassal. That transfer may or may not go forward. It sounded like the new priest was going to be Fr. Dreher, but that might have already been changed. But whether they go ahead with the transfer, or keep Fr. Vassal there, I don't know at this point.
So here is what happened at ICA (Immaculate Conception Academy in Post Falls, ID):
- There are at least 8 boys who have been involved in unnatural vice at the school (as willing participants)
- There is an ongoing police investigation. They say that the SSPX is not volunteering any information to them.
- This vice against nature has been taking place all over the school premises: bell tower, restrooms, etc.
- Fr. Vassal allegedly misled parents multiple times, including this past year
- Fr. Wegner was also aware of it
- The parents are going to be putting out a public letter stating the facts.
- At least ten families are pulling their boys out of the school.
- One person involved said, "do spread the word". They want this to get out.
"Fr. Vassal has been aware of sodomy occurring among the boys for 2 or 3 years, but didn't do anything about it. The obvious problem is that some of these acts were actually illegal, so these incidents should have been treated as crimes and reported to the authorities. The Seal of Confession is irrelevant in this case, since these incidents were brought to Father's attention by many people OUTSIDE of the confessional. Someone close to the situation testifies that Fr. Vassal misled the parents about this situation at a parents' meeting. Someone said it looks like the U.S. District isn't planning to do much, except perhaps shuffle some priests and other personnel around."
You might find this interesting -- If I recall correctly, a few years ago someone quoted Fr. Vassal as saying something along the lines of, "Children should be exposed to evil, so they learn how to deal with it." I guess we're looking at the fruits of these children being exposed to evil!
This downfall of the SSPX is so tragic.
Also refer to this thread, which also involves ICA in Post Falls:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/SSPX-Camp-Counselor-Arrested-for-Raping-Boys
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Why is it so appealing for young boys to sodomize each other? Don't normal young people look at such behavior with disgust? I know I did when I was growing up and I am only 34.
I never understood it either. It wouldn't matter if I was away at sea for 3 years, at an all boys school, a seminary, or whatever.
It's against nature, it's naturally revolting, and YUCK! It doesn't even tempt me.
I mean, at least when it comes to beautiful young women I have to tell myself "no" to a certain degree. (It depends on the woman, of course. Some aren't attractive to me; some are.) But when I encounter a woman who is my "type", there is some level of attraction or desire there, even if it's just at the basest level (the passions). So I have to watch myself, practice mortification, be modest and prudent in my behavior and speech, etc. In short, the practice of virtue is necessary to fight any temptation, including the temptation of "desiring those you shouldn't".
But sodomy? I can avoid that sin without even trying!
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A friend from Post Falls called me an hour ago with the story. I had just finished writing what appears below:
I just got a call from a good friend in Post Falls. He informs me of yet another scandal at the Immaculate Conception Academy, one which is perhaps the outgrowth of, or tied into, other earlier scandals, which most of you probably know something about already.
Now we learn that at least eight boys at the Academy, and perhaps as many as fifteen youngsters, have been involved in ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ activity. The deviant behavior is reported to have occurred on the premises, e.g. in school bathrooms, empty classrooms, and perhaps in the adjoining chapel proper itself.
I understand that parents are now involved, and that even the police have been called in. Apparently, some parents have contacted a lawyer, or lawyers, and are contemplating legal action.
It is reported that the ICC prior knew about this deviant sɛҳuąƖ behavior among students, but that he covered it up. I can’t confirm that for certain yet.
Apparently, at least one of the students outed himself, confessing openly to (parents?) that he was a ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ.
I’ll report more as the story develops. I’ll be frank. If the story is true, and I think it is because it comes from very reliable sources, (people whom we know personally, including our friend who just called), then there is no doubt in my mind that ICA should be shut down forever, and that the prior should be run out of town on a rail. Furthermore, I think, the leadership of the Society, particularly Bp. Fellay should be called to account.
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The devil wants to turn everything that God made beautiful into something unnatural, it is the evil works of the fallen angels.
I think when we, in this case, men, are in the State of grace they will not be tempted by the unnatural and will find it disgusting. But, what do I know I am just a woman. :wink:
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Matto, I understand this is horrible news, but please don't drag innocent priests and bishops names into this to make a point.
My faith isn't shaken at all. We're dealing with human beings having poor, weak, wounded human nature. Original sin strikes again.
The Trads at Immaculate Conception Academy aren't somehow exempt from the ravages of Original Sin.
Nothing should surprise you.
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Nothing should surprise you.
This does surprise me. I thought traditional Catholicism was a refuge from sodomy in general. To find out that a large number of supposedly good young boys are engaged is such horrible sins is a great surprise to me. If they were engaged in normal fornication with girls I wouldn't be so surprised, but this? This is the most surprised I have ever been in a very bad way in all my time as a traditional Catholic.
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This scandal and perversion is right on time. And, it fits the MO. The sepulcher is whitened on the outside, with its opposite on the inside. And, there is nothing more dark than sodomy. And this, being that all guilty parties were underage, seems to me to be especially diabolical. Let us pray that these days be shortened, so that the xspx does not give tradition a bad name. Let them fall fast.
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I agree. It's hard to believe that eight traditional Catholic boys in a relatively small school could go that far off track. Satan really must have rolled up his sleeves when he set to work there.
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How absolutely heartbreaking for those families involved, sending their boys to a SSPX "traditional" Catholic school, thinking they will be somehow safe from the revolting decadence which engulf us. There are many people who moved there JUST so their boys could attend that school...to protect them from the evils of this world; but Satan is really everywhere and there is nowhere to hide. No long ago, I myself wanted to move there and prayed earnestly about it; but God did not hear that prayer. Now I know why. God always knows best.
Prayers for those families!
The only way to explain the extent of this sodomite epidemic is that we are truly living in the End of Times and legions of disgusting devils are running loose. We are a completely SICK society in desperate need of a collective exorcism. There is nothing but filth around us! Please Lord Jesus come.
These are St. Peter Damian's words on those who practice the unnatural vice:
“His flesh burns with the fury of lust, his frigid mind trembles with the rancor of suspicion, and chaos now rages hellishly in the heart of the unhappy man while he is vexed by as many worries as he is tortured, as it were, by the torments of punishment. Indeed, once this most poisonous snake has sunk its teeth into an unhappy soul, sense is immediately taken away, memory is removed, the sharpness of mind is obscured; it becomes forgetful of God, it forgets even itself.”
“This most pestilent queen of the sodomites renders him who is submissive to the laws of her tyranny indecent to men and hateful to God. In order to sow impious wars against God, she requires a militancy of the most wretched spirit,” “She separates the unhappy soul from the fellowship of the angels, removing it from its nobility to place it under the yoke of her own domination. She strips her soldiers of the armaments of the virtues, and to strike them down, exposes them to the darts of every vice. . . . She gnaws the conscience like worms, burns the flesh like a fire, and pants with desire for pleasure. But in contrast she fears to be exposed, to come out in public, o be known by others.”
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It is very true. It is very sad and discouraging. Unfortunately it is most probably worse than what is posted here. It is still being withheld from the parents of the involved children. Of the few parents who have been told by other parents that their child is involved , there is mostly denial. The affected children of sodomy, molestation, group masturbation are not receiving any help or counselling. These sins are spreading in the homes to the younger siblings. The parents of most all the school children of all grades have no idea of the widespread affect that has spread over the last two years. At the most recent parent meeting, parents were told by father this was "normal" pubescent behavior, "imprudent" but "not really mortal sin".
Pray for the people of post falls. We just want to protect the children.
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Matto - I agree with your reaction. But, matthew is also right. He has thick skin, and we all need that. But, we also need to not forget the days when we didn't have such. Because, this is an enormous scandal. I remember posting years ago that the xspx will become the new gatekeeper of the church. And, that it will surprise us what they turn into. We are seeing it. Expect more surprises if they continue on their path. They go from being a great good to a great evil. All because they were at one time great.
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Why is it so appealing for young boys to sodomize each other? Don't normal young people look at such behavior with disgust? I know I did when I was growing up and I am only 34.
I never understood it either. It wouldn't matter if I was away at sea for 3 years, at an all boys school, a seminary, or whatever.
It's against nature, it's naturally revolting, and YUCK! It doesn't even tempt me.
I mean, at least when it comes to beautiful young women I have to tell myself "no" to a certain degree. (It depends on the woman, of course. Some aren't attractive to me; some are.) But when I encounter a woman who is my "type", there is some level of attraction or desire there, even if it's just at the basest level (the passions). So I have to watch myself, practice mortification, be modest and prudent in my behavior and speech, etc. In short, the practice of virtue is necessary to fight any temptation, including the temptation of "desiring those you shouldn't".
But sodomy? I can avoid that sin without even trying!
The modern penchant toward the sin against nature is rooted in the Liberal doctrine of not being "judgmental" and of non-discrimination. When men habitually behave like women toward other men they get in the habit of going flaccid against the queer nation (aka ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ community). When I was in grade school any boy who acted queer got beat up. So they stayed in the closet, where they belonged. Not so anymore.
In fact, the whole country is going fruit because it's getting into the laws -- non-discrimination in housing, hiring employees, or providing services such as cake decorating or wedding ceremonies. Then there's the transgender bathroom idiocy.
All this cr*p piles up and stinks to high heaven. So this news comes as an unwanted but not-too-surprising follow-up to all the other bad news of the past week.
Read Romans 1:21-27 again and see how prophetic it is:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. [23] And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. [24] Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
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I can avoid that sin without even trying!
Careful, lest you be presumptuous.
Sodomy "is the greatest sin among the species of lust (http://dhspriory.org/thomas/summa/SS/SS154.html#SSQ154A12THEP1)," so unless you think you're completely free from lust, there's always the possibility that you could slide down the slippery slope from seemingly benign acts or thoughts all the way down to the full-fledged sins against nature, especially if God withdraws His grace (e.g., due to sins like idolatry; cf. Rom. 1).
True, and to be honest I did think of that even as I wrote it. I should have been more...thorough. So I admit, you got me there.
Without God's grace, we would each fall into the deepest depravities of sin and vice, myself included.
I guess what I'm saying is, it's currently in the "bottom 5 sins" as far as what sins I have to war against, given my current virtues and vices. (My virtues are all thanks to God's grace, and my vices are my own fault.)
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[6] Now these things were done in a figure of us, that we should not covet evil things as they also coveted. [7] Neither become ye idolaters, as some of them, as it is written: The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. [8] Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed fornication, and there fell in one day three and twenty thousand. [9] Neither let us tempt Christ: as some of them tempted, and perished by the serpents. [10] Neither do you murmur: as some of them murmured, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
[11] Now all these things happened to them in figure: and they are written for our correction, upon whom the ends of the world are come. [12] Wherefore he that thinketh himself to stand, let him take heed lest he fall. [13] Let no temptation take hold on you, but such as is human. And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you are able: but will make also with temptation issue, that you may be able to bear it. [14] Wherefore, my dearly beloved, fly from the service of idols. [15] I speak as to wise men: judge ye yourselves what I say.
- 1 Corinthians 10:6-15
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This vice is not natural to fallen children. The child was either raped or molested multiple times by at least one adult most likely.
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At this point, I fear, nothing will cure the SSPX. Our Lady was reported to have told +Fellay, that unless he made the 2nd Rosary Crusade in 2008 for the Consecration of Russia, The SSPX was over. It was toast. He failed to obey Our Lady in 2006, though the Consecration had been Her desired intention then. The Holy Mother, apparently then, overlooked that failure, but warned him straitly concerning Her single intention for the 2nd Crusade. As we know, +F ignored Her request, and made the lifting of the so-called excommunications the theme for that RC. The rest is history. The sspx is toast. Folks had better leave the fallen apostolate while they still can.
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Matto, I understand this is horrible news, but please don't drag innocent priests and bishops names into this to make a point.
My faith isn't shaken at all. We're dealing with human beings having poor, weak, wounded human nature. Original sin strikes again.
Nothing should surprise you.
I think it disgusting as well, and my prayer is the next time another Traditionalist drags the dirt on Bishop X ... that scandal! They will remember in the age that we live in where the fallen angels are free to roam, we can all fall and must remain close to our Faith. Original sin strikes again, that fallen nature.
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Is it a boarding school or a day school (or both)?
It is a day school. Apparently all of the occurrences were happening in the school premises; I just can't understand how is it possible that this went on and on and nobody saw or did something about it. It is not even a single, isolated case, but a series of depravities with many children involved so where in the world were the adults who were supposed to be in charge of this youth?
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It seems to me that there were a veritable host of corrupters in that school. The Society really need to investigate this case of ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ infiltration. How many vectors of perversity and moral corruption are at their wicked work in the Society? It has to be far more than one individual and lax shepherds who let wolves into the sheepfold. It must go higher.
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Is it a boarding school or a day school (or both)?
It is a day school. Apparently all of the occurrences were happening in the school premises; I just can't understand how is it possible that this went on and on and nobody saw or did something about it. It is not even a single, isolated case, but a series of depravities with many children involved so where in the world were the adults who were supposed to be in charge of this youth?
How much time did these kids have to do this kind of stuff at a day school? Was there no supervision during lunch/recess? I mean, how odd is that? I think many of us are wondering if adults were involved.
Wow- we need prayers.
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Mark: This is one of a very short list of things that will cure the SSPX.
At this point, I fear, nothing will cure the SSPX. Our Lady was reported to have told +Fellay, that unless he made the 2nd Rosary Crusade in 2008 for the Consecration of Russia, The SSPX was over. It was toast. He failed to obey Our Lady in 2006, though the Consecration had been Her desired intention then. The Holy Mother, apparently then, overlooked that failure, but warned him straitly concerning Her single intention for the 2nd Crusade. As we know, +F ignored Her request, and made the lifting of the so-called excommunications the theme for that RC. The rest is history. The sspx is toast. Folks had better leave the fallen apostolate while they still can.
Likely you are correct, but perhaps a legal kick in the teeth, the associated and deserved public humiliation, and resultant closed wallets will lessen the hubris of the liars and enablers of pederasts. Perhaps not.
To rub salt in our wounds, Fr. Crane's sermon in Phoenix today was about how parents should be putting their children in Society schools. What gall! Fr. Crane is among the ones who "allegedly" turned a deaf ear when he was warned about his parishioner and "camp counselor" pederast Sloniker.
Anyone who has children in a Society school needs to be vigilant and to teach their children to flee shrieking from any sɛҳuąƖ overtures and to immediately report the problem to mom and dad, who, in turn, should call the police, completely bypassing any liars and enablers.
Sad to say, we cannot trust the Society denials and reassurances. They have earned our mistrust.
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Here's the article from a Spokane paper on the Sloniker arrest that I read when this first broke last fall.
Fr. Crane has a LOT to answer for!
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/oct/26/coeur-dalene-man-jailed-on-1-million-bond-suspecte/
A long-haul truck driver from Coeur d’Alene who also served as a church youth camp counselor is suspected of raping and abusing underage boys in Spokane and Kootenai counties over the past decade.
Kevin G. Sloniker, 30, faces felony charges of rape and lewd conduct involving two underage boys and is a suspect in the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of at least eight other boys, according to court docuмents. He’s being held in the Kootenai County Jail on $1 million bond.
Sloniker met and befriended some of the boys in his role as a youth camp counselor at Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls, according to investigative reports filed with 1st District Court in Kootenai County.
Some of the alleged abuse occurred at Sloniker’s parents’ home in Latah, south of Spokane, and some happened when he took boys on the road with him around the Western U.S., according to court records.
He was arrested on a warrant Sept. 14 in Menomonie, Wisconsin, and extradited to Kootenai County, where he was booked into jail Oct. 9. Sloniker is charged with two counts of felony lewd conduct and one count of felony rape. Additional charges are possible, prosecutors in Kootenai and Spokane counties say.
Sloniker made his first court appearance Friday, when his bond was set by 1st District Magistrate Barry Watson. He does not yet have an attorney.
In an Oct. 9 interview with police, Sloniker admitted to fondling nine boys, having oral sex with a few of them and raping one over the past 10 years. He said he wanted help for an addiction to touching young boys.
Because Sloniker is accused of taking boys across state lines to abuse them, he also may face federal charges.
Sloniker allegedly raped and assaulted one Coeur d’Alene boy repeatedly over the past six years, starting when the victim was about 11 years old and living near Airway Heights, according to a criminal complaint. Sloniker was a family friend and later moved in with the boy’s mother, the victim told a police detective. He also said Sloniker pressured him to bring his two cousins to Sloniker’s apartment so he could molest them as well.
Sloniker also is charged with lewd and lascivious conduct with a 9-year-old boy from Newport, Washington. That boy told detectives Sloniker fondled him during an overnight stay at the suspect’s residence last April.
Witnesses told investigators Sloniker liked to spend time with kids much younger than him and would buy them lavish gifts. He was involved in youth camps at Immaculate Conception Church, which is part of the Society of Saint Pius X, a traditionalist group with no canonical standing in the Roman Catholic Church.
One boy said he attended the church’s Immaculate Conception Academy, and that Sloniker was involved with a group of boys who attended the K-12 school in Post Falls. Sloniker also taught boys how to be altar boys through the Guild of St. Stephen, an international organization of altar servers, investigators learned.
Some parents told police they knew of or strongly suspected the abuse and advised others to keep their kids away from Sloniker. In some cases Sloniker lived for a time with the families of his alleged victims.
One alleged victim told a detective that Sloniker took him on a long trip in his truck through seven Western states when the boy was between 10 and 15 years old. Sloniker sɛҳuąƖly assaulted him repeatedly during the journey, the boy stated.
Another boy said he spent one summer at the Latah farm when he was about 12. Sloniker’s attention escalated to nightly sɛҳuąƖ abuse, and Sloniker also hit him with a whip, he told police.
Several of those interviewed said they reported their concerns to the priests at Immaculate Conception Church. The boy who said he was whipped by Sloniker said he shared that with Father Patrick Crane. He also told the priest that Sloniker made him strip naked.
Crane, who now is with another Society of Saint Pius X church – Our Lady of Sorrows in Phoenix – was interviewed by a detective Sept. 22. He said Sloniker worked with the church camp from 2003 to 2006 and that he did not have any issues with him.
When the detective shared that one of the alleged victims said he had told Crane about Sloniker whipping him, “Crane said he remembers part of it, but it was mostly because (the boy) did not want to attend the camp.”
Crane added that he remembers not asking Sloniker back after that, and also told the detective that if something had been brought forward, he would have said something “because this was during the time the church was being looked into for other abuse allegations across America,” the detective wrote.
Others said they warned Father James Haynos and Father Paul Vassal at the church about Sloniker.
Neither Vassal, the headmaster at the church, nor Crane returned calls for comment Monday.
The detective learned that Sloniker had attended St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary, also part of the Society of St. Pius X, in Winona, Minnesota. Vassal said in an Oct. 2 interview with police that the seminary in 2005 deemed Sloniker to be mentally unstable after he tried to circuмcise himself. He was removed from the seminary program.
There were no known incidents of sɛҳuąƖ abuse by Sloniker back then, Vassal told police.
Haynos, who now lives in Kansas, told Coeur d’Alene police Detective Nicholas Lowry he was unaware of the sex abuse allegations against Sloniker. “Haynos also told me due to Sloniker’s unstable mindset he would never be put in a position in which he would be in charge of kids,” the detective wrote.
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If there is any SSPX'er who is, pardon my French, enough of a dips#$ to think this story is made up, please refer them to any local news story in Spokane or the Associated Press reporting on Sloniker's arrest and sentencing!
COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho (AP) A long-haul truck driver from Coeur d'Alene who served as a church youth camp counselor has pleaded guilty to abusing underage boys in Spokane, Washington, and Kootenai counties.
Kevin Sloniker, 30, on Wednesday pleaded guilty to molesting seven boys between the ages of 8 and 14, The Spokesman-Review reported. He is scheduled to be sentenced July 13 and faces up to seven consecutive life sentences.
In exchange for the guilty plea, the Kootenai County prosecutor's office agreed not to pursue other charges, including production of child pornography for photos Sloniker allegedly made of two of the boys.
Sloniker was arrested Sept. 14 in Menomonie, Wisconsin, after a joint investigation by the Coeur d'Alene and Post Falls police. He was later extradited to Idaho.
In an Oct. 9 interview with police, Sloniker admitted to fondling nine boys, having oral sex with some of them and raping one over the past 10 years, according to court docuмents. He said he wanted help for his addiction to touching young boys.
Prosecutors said Sloniker met and befriended boys in his role as a youth camp counselor at Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls. The church is part of the Society of Saint Pius X, a traditionalist group with no canonical standing in the Roman Catholic Church.
http://kboi2.com/news/local/long-haul-trucker-pleads-guilty-to-abusing-underage-boys
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Is it a boarding school or a day school (or both)?
Both.
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Under the current commissariat there has been utter contempt of parents, teachers, and children. This fish is rotting from the head down.
If the commissars do not reform, this will blow up in their faces. Their usual denials, authoritarian suppression, and killing the messenger will no longer work.
Parents, teachers, and children have been contemptuously ignored, even reviled and threatened and it is tired repetitious pattern.
A few salient examples:
Scandal #1: Across the US District numerous schools performed a play by Oscar Wilde, the most internationally infamous pederast of the 20th century. Parents protested, but were ignored. The plays continued.
Scandal #2: Sloniker. Parents and children warned Fr. Crane, but he malfeasantly ignored the warnings and, despite his complete absence of public admission, penitence, and reparation, he has been inflicted on another parish with a K-12 school, Our Lady of Sorrows Academy in Phoenix: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/oct/26/coeur-dalene-man-jailed-on-1-million-bond-suspecte/
Scandal #3: 8-15 boys at Immaculate Conception Academy in Post Falls engaged in ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ acts in the school and chapel. When parents inquired, the priest LIED.
Even this truncated list reveals an outrageous pattern of evil and enabling behavior by Society priests. This fish is rotting from the head down.
Action is indicated.
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If it's all true then I hope the parents indeed do what they
said they would:
"The parents of affected boys will be putting out a public letter soon"
At the very least this would be necessary as well as a real
drumming of the clergy who sought to conceal these events.
Neither the Resistance, nor the Novus Ordo have been without
their own scandals to say the very least.
The Society has its enemies from within and without,
and all parts of our Church has sinners within and without.
If it is true, then the ball is in Menzingen's court.
It should have no bearing on doctrinal matters. I applaud
the Resistance as a watchdog regarding SSPX/Rome affairs
although it is my opinion that some Resistance priests left
the Society without good reason. Nobody knows what will happen
regarding the ultimate agreement if it occurs, and that's off-topic
to this particular controversy.
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mw2016 - Pablo doesn't have a monopoly on that saying. And, I already have a redeemer. His name is Jesus Christ. Who, coincidentally, happens to be the author of that saying, and much more.
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I have relatives who live in Post Falls. They said they were at ICC this morning and the district superior (Fr. Wegner) was in the confessional throughout the mass and gave the sermon. They said the sermon didn't have anything to do with this occurrence.
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I have relatives who live in Post Falls. They said they were at ICC this morning and the district superior (Fr. Wegner) was in the confessional throughout the mass and gave the sermon. They said the sermon didn't have anything to do with this occurrence.
Well, of COURSE it wouldn't have anything to do with it - that's what Wegner DOES!
Fr. Wegner was here for MONTHS after Fr. Riccomini was ousted.
He's trying to do damage control amongst the parents no doubt worried about a lawsuit.
It makes his reference to the SSPX's "legal fund" a few months back here in PHX suddenly make sense!
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http://www.rawstory.com/2015/10/trucker-kicked-out-of-seminary-for-self-circuмcision-admits-to-molesting-9-boys-at-anti-semitic-church-police/
A church youth camp counselor and failed seminary student admitted to molesting at least nine boys over the past decade, police said.
Kevin Sloniker, an Idaho long-haul trucker, has been charged with rape and lewd conduct involving two underage boys and is a suspect in the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of at least eight other boys, reported the Idaho Statesman.
The 30-year-old Sloniker met some of the boys when he served as a youth camp counselor at Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls, according to court docuмents.
Police said Sloniker admitted to fondling nine boys, having oral sex with some of them and raping one boy, and officers said the former seminary student wanted help with his “addiction” to sɛҳuąƖly abusing young boys.
He abused some of the boys at his parents’ home in Latah, Washington, and Sloniker molested the others when he took them on the road around the western U.S., investigators said.
Sloniker was arrested earlier this month in Wisconsin and extradited back to Idaho, where remains jailed in Kootenai County on $1 million bond.
He could face additional charges in Idaho, and Sloniker could face federal charges because he is accused of taking victims across state lines to abuse them.
Sloniker was kicked out of St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary in 2005, when he was deemed mentally unstable after he attempted to circuмcise himself.
The seminary and Immaculate Conception Church, where Sloniker was involved in youth camps, are both part of the anti-Semitic Society of Saint Pius X — a traditionalist sect with no canonical standing within the Roman Catholic Church.
The ultra-conservative society was formed in reaction to the church’s modernization in the 1960s, and the group now claims nearly half a million members.
Society churches conduct Mass in Latin, with the priest’s back to the congregation, and many Saint Pius X officials and followers are outspoken αnтι-ѕємιтєs — although they prefer to describe themselves as opponents of “Jєωιѕн naturalism.”
The Southern Poverty Law Center, however, calls “radical traditionalist Catholics” — including SSPX members — the “the single largest group of hard-core αnтι-ѕємιтєs in America.”
Witnesses told investigators that Sloniker repeatedly raped and sɛҳuąƖly abused one boy over six years, starting when the victim was 11 years old, and moved with a family member into the victim’s home.
He pressured the boy to bring two cousins home so he could molest them, too, investigators said.
Some parents told police they strongly suspected Sloniker, who stayed with the families of some victims, of sɛҳuąƖ abuse because he spent so much time with young boys and bought them lavish gifts.
Several parents brought their concerns to Father Patrick Crane, who is now with another Society of Saint Pius X church – Our Lady of Sorrows in Phoenix.
Crane told investigators last month that he was aware that a boy claimed Sloniker had forced him to strip naked and then whipped him.
The priest said Sloniker worked with the church camp from 2003 to 2006, and Crane said he recalls that he did not ask the trucker back after learning about the boy’s claims.
“Crane said he remembers part of it, but it was mostly because (the boy) did not want to attend the camp,” police said.
The priest said he did not think there was enough evidence to report the incident, although Crane said he was aware the boy’s claims were made “during the time the church was being looked into for other abuse allegations across America.”
Other parents said they warned Father James Haynos, the church headmaster, and Father Paul Vassal about Sloniker, although it’s not clear they ever took any action to investigate the claims.
Vassal told police he knew about Sloniker’s circuмcision attempt, although the priest said he was unaware of any sex abuse claims against the trucker from that period.
Haynos, who now lives in Kansas, said he knew nothing of sex abuse allegations against Sloniker — although he said the failed seminary student’s “unstable mindset” should have disqualified him from “a position in which he would be in charge of kids.”
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I have relatives who live in Post Falls. They said they were at ICC this morning and the district superior (Fr. Wegner) was in the confessional throughout the mass and gave the sermon. They said the sermon didn't have anything to do with this occurrence.
Fr. Wegner offered the 7AM Mass. I thought perhaps he was here to address the scandal, but officially, it turns out, he was in town for the 25th anniversary of St. Dominic School. I thought he may have broached this terrible subject when the time came to ascend the pulpit, especially given his grim demeanor, but it didn't come to pass. I guess that's his normal countenance. :thinking:
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This detail proves that the abuse by Sloniker was not something that happened in THE PAST.
This detail shows that it was ongoing to the point of his arrest last fall:
Saturday, November 7, 2015 12:00 am
DAVID COLE/Staff Writer | 4 comments
COEUR d'ALENE — The Coeur d'Alene long-haul trucker charged with lewd conduct with boys also now faces six child pornography charges.
Kevin G. Sloniker, 30, has been charged with two counts of production of child pornography, two counts of distributing child porn and two counts of possession of sɛҳuąƖly exploitative materials, according to an amended criminal complaint filed in 1st District Court in Kootenai County.
The updated charging docuмents said Sloniker, between January 2014 and September of this year, allegedly took pictures of the private parts of a 14-year-old boy.
During the same time period, Sloniker allegedly took similar pictures of an 11-year-old boy.
Sloniker allegedly showed the pictures to another person.
The docuмents were filed by Kootenai County Deputy Prosecutor Jed Whitaker.
Sloniker is scheduled to appear before Magistrate Anna Eckhart on Dec. 10 for a preliminary hearing, when prosecutors will work to establish probable cause and have the case moved up to District Court for a future trial.
Sloniker was a youth camp counselor at Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls. He allegedly met and befriended some boys through the youth camps.
The Immaculate Conception Church is part of a breakaway sect known as the Society of Saint Pius X, or SSPX. The Diocese of Boise released a statement this week clarifying that the Immaculate Conception Church is not a Roman Catholic Church.
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The principal at ICA, John Tardiff, was a teacher at St. Anthony Academy when our kids attended there.
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It is not usual for a visiting district superior to do back to back confessions at masses when there are people waiting to talk to him outside. Especially for this highly disturbing situation. It appears Fr. Wegner was in the confessional on purpose during those masses making himself available for any occasion of discreteness...
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If the parents of the children are really traditional, why aren't they homeschooling?
Traditional teaching is that children belong in a Catholic school BUT in light of the mess that even SSPX schools are in I would home school if I had kids in that age bracket. I have been told second-hand that the Society vigorously discourages home schooling but I have no first-hand knowledge of that.
I pulled mine from a NO school 20+ years ago because of the outrageous corruption of Catholic truth, looks like parents in sspx schools are now going to also be extremely vigilant about what goes on at their schools and what they allow their kids to participate in, given that corruption has spread to them also.
All of the kids, even those NOT involved in the sinful activity are going to be scarred for life.
:pray: :pray: :pray:
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I heard from a couple in Post Falls this morning. They report that the school will not close, but that they are already preparing for the opening of a new school year. I hear, furthermore, that Pharaoh Bernie hardened his heart. Originally, they had a new priest scheduled to take over for Fr. Vassal in the wake of the latest scandal. However that decision was reversed. Apparently, the sspx hierarchy, (Fellay?) informed concerned laity that nobody is going to tell Menzingen what to do. It is not our place.
What is more, apparently, 20 ICC families are pulling their kids out of ICA. I hope the report is true. Even better news would be that ICC was on the market and had been closed down altogether.
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What is more, apparently, 20 ICC families are pulling their kids out of ICA. I hope the report is true. Even better news would be that ICC was on the market and had been closed down altogether.
How is it possible to keep its doors open with 20 families pulling their kids out?? Wouldn't that decimate their bottom line?
Phoenix's school would shut down if that many families walked.
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mw2016 - Pablo doesn't have a monopoly on that saying. And, I already have a redeemer. His name is Jesus Christ. Who, coincidentally, happens to be the author of that saying, and much more.
Yes indeed!
I'm not about to "quote" and "give credit to" Pablo for something he used (or ripped off) from someone else!
Pablo is full of hate. The fact that he might accidentally hate a bad guy once in a while doesn't rehabilitate him. Besides, even hating a bad guy is evil! We're not supposed to hate anyone on this side of Hell's walls.
The fact is that anyone you meet on Earth has not yet been condemned. If God is allowing him to live longer, it is because of His mercy. Does He intend for this soul to convert at some point and glorify Him forever in heaven?
Only God knows.
Do not curse him who the Lord has blessed. The only ones we know for sure aren't blessed are those in Hell -- and we don't know with certainty who is in Hell!
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During my short time in Post Falls, I saw that the families who home-schooled their children were ostracized to some extent. It was somewhat of a status-symbol to have one's children in the Academy.
I guess peer-pressure may have been a factor on both the student and parental levels.
In light of the recent Kevin Sloniker scandal, I am suspicious at the cause of this streak of unnatural vice at Immaculate Conception. Has the pastor/pastors fostered a culture of don't-ask-don't-tell?
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I have been told second-hand that the Society vigorously discourages home schooling but I have no first-hand knowledge of that.
It's not hard to imagine that when living near a Trad school, there is going to be pressure to enroll your children. Schools can offer more -- better teachers, more classes and activities, etc -- the more students they have. All of the families, teachers, and administration of the school see those who won't enroll their children as obstacles to their own success. It would be difficult for me to imagine it otherwise.
However, there are many SSPX locations without a school and I really doubt that homeschooling is discouraged in those locations. I've never seen it here.
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The fact is that anyone you meet on Earth has not yet been condemned. If God is allowing him to live longer, it is because of His mercy. Does He intend for this soul to convert at some point and glorify Him forever in heaven?
Only God knows for sure.
Do not curse him whom the Lord has blessed. The only ones we know for sure aren't blessed are those in Hell -- and we don't know with certainty who is in Hell! There is no "inverse canonization" by which the Church declares who is in Hell, indirectly telling us who we can hate.
Anyhow, you don't have to hate him to oppose him, prosecute him, dislike him, or even hate the sins (and/or actual demons) that have possession of him.
Don't fall into the trap of bitter zeal.
[43] You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thy enemy. [44] But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: [45] That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.
[46] For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this? [47] And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? [48] Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.
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I heard from a couple in Post Falls this morning. They report that the school will not close, but that they are already preparing for the opening of a new school year. I hear, furthermore, that Pharaoh Bernie hardened his heart. Originally, they had a new priest scheduled to take over for Fr. Vassal in the wake of the latest scandal. However that decision was reversed. Apparently, the sspx hierarchy, (Fellay?) informed concerned laity that nobody is going to tell Menzingen what to do. It is not our place.
What is more, apparently, 20 ICC families are pulling their kids out of ICA. I hope the report is true. Even better news would be that ICC was on the market and had been closed down altogether.
How Novus Ordo to close ranks behind the PEDERAST enablers.
BOTTOM LINE: With so many reports, to a moral certainty, we know that the priest(s) knew of problems with various individuals, and rampant SODOMITE activity in the school and chapel AND the priests have variously IGNORED, ENABLED, and LIED about the SINS THAT CRY TO HEAVEN FOR VENGEANCE, AND they have used their traditional "kill the messenger" modus operandi.
With the clarity of Catholic moral theology, to this point the involved SSPX priests and superiors are ACCOMPLICES in PEDERASTY and other CORRUPTION OF CHILDREN.
The fish is rotting from the head down.
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Seriously, how was there not immediate action taken?
The poor innocence of these children...ripped away.
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This is a tough lesson, Matthew, but you have posted well and given the Catholic teaching on this item.
Good job, man.
The one problem I have with this scripture is the following: "That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust."
Why does our Father, who "raineth upon the just and unjust," see fit to not rain in California year after year?
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"It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones. "
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Yesterday, a lady from Post Falls, who shares time between SSPX Masses there and Masses at our independent chapel, said something that resonated with us. She said that many of the faithful at ICC still do not know about the scandals there. They are uninformed, apparently, even as I write. She had just begun to undertake to conduct an information campaign in order to get the message out. She said that we'd be surprised to learn how many of the faithful, even those close to ground zero, still know little or nothing about it.
We all know how Fellay & Co. operate, usually in secrecy, often behind closed doors, endeavoring always to keep any news, damaging to the Society, from our ears.
I would suggest this: A number of you, probably, have acquaintances, i.e. relatives, friends, who attend ICC. Contact them by phone, letter or email. Tell them everything that you know about the situation. Shout it from the housetops.
Additionally, those of you active on other forums, get the story out. Do not give sspx hierarchy the satisfaction of being able to keep yet another scandal under wraps and undealt with.
I would also suggest that some of you write personally to Michael Matt of the Remnant, and John Vennari of Catholic Family News, telling them what you know in detail.
Commenting on sermons, talks and debate forums posted on Youtube is another means of getting information out. Most Youtube videos provide a comment format which allows the viewer to share remarks and opinions.
Let's blanket cyber space and the airways with the news. Let none of this evil be hidden any longer.
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It is very true. It is very sad and discouraging. Unfortunately it is most probably worse than what is posted here. It is still being withheld from the parents of the involved children. Of the few parents who have been told by other parents that their child is involved , there is mostly denial. The affected children of sodomy, molestation, group masturbation are not receiving any help or counselling. These sins are spreading in the homes to the younger siblings. The parents of most all the school children of all grades have no idea of the widespread affect that has spread over the last two years. At the most recent parent meeting, parents were told by father this was "normal" pubescent behavior, "imprudent" but "not really mortal sin".
Pray for the people of post falls. We just want to protect the children.
I don't get it. Do the parents know or do they not know? And when can we expect the communique from the parents who have first hand knowledge of what allegedly occurred?
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Yesterday, a lady from Post Falls, who shares time between SSPX Masses there and Masses at our independent chapel, said something that resonated with us. She said that many of the faithful at ICC still do not know about the scandals there. They are uninformed, apparently, even as I write. She had just begun to undertake to conduct an information campaign in order to get the message out. She said that we'd be surprised to learn how many of the faithful, even those close to ground zero, still know little or nothing about it.
We all know how Fellay & Co. operate, usually in secrecy, often behind closed doors, endeavoring always to keep any news, damaging to the Society, from our ears.
I would suggest this: A number of you, probably, have acquaintances, i.e. relatives, friends, who attend ICC. Contact them by phone, letter or email. Tell them everything that you know about the situation. Shout it from the housetops.
Additionally, those of you active on other forums, get the story out. Do not give sspx hierarchy the satisfaction of being able to keep yet another scandal under wraps and undealt with.
I would also suggest that some of you write personally to Michael Matt of the Remnant, and John Vennari of Catholic Family News, telling them what you know in detail.
Commenting on sermons, talks and debate forums posted on Youtube is another means of getting information out. Most Youtube videos provide a comment format which allows the viewer to share remarks and opinions.
Let's blanket cyber space and the airways with the news. Let none of this evil be hidden any longer.
Even though Sloniker's pederasty was reported in the lay press, a search shows no mention by either the Remnant or CFNews. Unsurprisingly the SPLC has publicized the Sloniker scandal: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2015/10/30/former-seminarian-anti-semitic-church-charged-sɛҳuąƖ-abuse-boys
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Matto, I agree with you.
We expected more from traditional chapels. In fact, that's why 99% of the people are at ICC - to get away from the novus ordo filth.
And what do they find after they root themselves up and leave behind lucrative jobs so they can move to Post Falls and have to go on food stamps because they can't find good paying jobs?
Sodomites destroying their children.
Immaculate Conception Church and Academy ought to be demolished, the buildings razed and the property sold off.
Matthew, thank you for having the integrity to post this awful news.
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This started with Kevin Sloniker.
By the way, he is being sentenced on July 13th.
Had the SSPX priests stepped in with Sloniker, this could have been avoided perhaps.
Anyone have an idea just how long this filth has been going on?
The SSPX will fit right in with the novus ordo now! Good job!!
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Mark: This is one of a very short list of things that will cure the SSPX.
At this point, I fear, nothing will cure the SSPX. Our Lady was reported to have told +Fellay, that unless he made the 2nd Rosary Crusade in 2008 for the Consecration of Russia, The SSPX was over. It was toast. He failed to obey Our Lady in 2006, though the Consecration had been Her desired intention then. The Holy Mother, apparently then, overlooked that failure, but warned him straitly concerning Her single intention for the 2nd Crusade. As we know, +F ignored Her request, and made the lifting of the so-called excommunications the theme for that RC. The rest is history. The sspx is toast. Folks had better leave the fallen apostolate while they still can.
Likely you are correct, but perhaps a legal kick in the teeth, the associated and deserved public humiliation, and resultant closed wallets will lessen the hubris of the liars and enablers of pederasts. Perhaps not.
To rub salt in our wounds, Fr. Crane's sermon in Phoenix today was about how parents should be putting their children in Society schools. What gall! Fr. Crane is among the ones who "allegedly" turned a deaf ear when he was warned about his parishioner and "camp counselor" pederast Sloniker.
Anyone who has children in a Society school needs to be vigilant and to teach their children to flee shrieking from any sɛҳuąƖ overtures and to immediately report the problem to mom and dad, who, in turn, should call the police, completely bypassing any liars and enablers.
Sad to say, we cannot trust the Society denials and reassurances. They have earned our mistrust.
Fr. Crane has his head in the sand. He is on the same level as that priest that went with Pfeiffer.
I've kept quiet about a lot, but no more.
Many of you really need to pray hard and long about your original position.
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I heard from a couple in Post Falls this morning. They report that the school will not close, but that they are already preparing for the opening of a new school year. I hear, furthermore, that Pharaoh Bernie hardened his heart. Originally, they had a new priest scheduled to take over for Fr. Vassal in the wake of the latest scandal. However that decision was reversed. Apparently, the sspx hierarchy, (Fellay?) informed concerned laity that nobody is going to tell Menzingen what to do. It is not our place.
What is more, apparently, 20 ICC families are pulling their kids out of ICA. I hope the report is true. Even better news would be that ICC was on the market and had been closed down altogether.
I hope 40 families pull their children out of the school, and I hope the parish collapses from lack of filthy lucre to keep it going.
Any fool that would stay there at this point I have no sympathy for. Especially in the Post Falls area, there are plenty of options. No one needs the SSPX.
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Yesterday, a lady from Post Falls, who shares time between SSPX Masses there and Masses at our independent chapel, said something that resonated with us. She said that many of the faithful at ICC still do not know about the scandals there. They are uninformed, apparently, even as I write. She had just begun to undertake to conduct an information campaign in order to get the message out. She said that we'd be surprised to learn how many of the faithful, even those close to ground zero, still know little or nothing about it.
We all know how Fellay & Co. operate, usually in secrecy, often behind closed doors, endeavoring always to keep any news, damaging to the Society, from our ears.
I would suggest this: A number of you, probably, have acquaintances, i.e. relatives, friends, who attend ICC. Contact them by phone, letter or email. Tell them everything that you know about the situation. Shout it from the housetops.
Additionally, those of you active on other forums, get the story out. Do not give sspx hierarchy the satisfaction of being able to keep yet another scandal under wraps and undealt with.
I would also suggest that some of you write personally to Michael Matt of the Remnant, and John Vennari of Catholic Family News, telling them what you know in detail.
Commenting on sermons, talks and debate forums posted on Youtube is another means of getting information out. Most Youtube videos provide a comment format which allows the viewer to share remarks and opinions.
Let's blanket cyber space and the airways with the news. Let none of this evil be hidden any longer.
I would also suggest that we go on novus ordo fora and warn those in the novus ordo who are thinking of decamping to the sspx on account of Francis.
They are under the illusion that the sspx is heaven on earth.
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This vice is not natural to fallen children. The child was either raped or molested multiple times by at least one adult most likely.
I concur.
My husband works with these people. The cases are almost always the same. Some family member or family friend is given free access to the children and they are abused. They can't tell their parents because the parents love the family member or family friend so much and the children think they will be responsible for ruining the family. Then the children start to build resentment toward the parents for allowing that person into the family and thereby abusing them. Then they start to hate the parent. Eventually they stop loving people all together. Then their way of returning the "favor" so to speak is visiting the abuse onto other innocent children.
I have said this many, many times before. Almost every traditional Catholic I know has absolutely NO gαydar. They can't tell a queer from a beer. My best friend, who I credit for really bringing me into traditional Catholicism, whose children are amazing, actually brought one of these queers to my house. She had ZERO clue. I recognized it as soon as I saw him on my door step.
Also MANY ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ men hide in traditional Catholicism. This is true. They are drawn to the lace and bells and power and unlimited access to young boys.
I trust NO ONE with my children. Ever. I love my priest. I believe he is a very holy man. But I won't leave my children with him and he wouldn't ask anyway because he is totally aware of the implications involved.
I don't leave my kids with ANYBODY.
It's happened before in my own family when my oldest two boys were just 7 and 4. And my 7 year old took the brunt of the abuse to protect his little brother. They were not forcibly raped but other things went on. My husband and I were too busy with our own lives to even notice and my mother, with whom they were in the care of, was one of those people who thinks queers are great people.
As a result, my husband and I moved over 1000 miles away from my family (this was a teenage family member) never to return. And we never will.
Parents, especially trad parents, really should wake up. This ain't 1950 anymore. SSPX is not a safe haven with great Catholic schools. The demons have invaded every aspect of this world, including the SSPX, and trad Catholic families.
ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ acts are the worst of the worst. This is not harmless!
I will say many prayers for these poor children. I pray that their families come to terms with this and vow to move as far away from this mess as possible.
I am also an advocate for homeschooling.
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I agree -- ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs "recruit" -- they corrupt children, who grow up to corrupt children of their own and the cycle continues.
It's like a typical parasite life cycle. The parasite lays its eggs in a victim host, and then those eggs eventually hatch into a fully grown parasite, which then goes off to lay more eggs in another host...
A friend of my mother experienced this. Her son was at a (protestant) summer camp, and was abused there. She didn't find out about it until years later, when this son of hers went on to abuse some boys himself. This woman reacted differently from her husband (I believe one of them called the cops), and that actually put such a strain on their marriage that they divorced for a while!
Ever since then, I have been convinced of how the life cycle of the parasite "ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ" works. They have to infect others to propagate their kind.
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Again, I encourage you folks to spread the word about this wherever you can, as, for example, here- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CosXBB7U14
Get the word out. The SSPX would love to keep all this horror self-contained as much as possible. Those trad publications, like The Remnant and Catholic Family News, who depend on sspx faithful for much of their subscribership, also have a vested interest in keeping these scandals hidden. We need to be the town criers!
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Mark: This is one of a very short list of things that will cure the SSPX.
At this point, I fear, nothing will cure the SSPX. Our Lady was reported to have told +Fellay, that unless he made the 2nd Rosary Crusade in 2008 for the Consecration of Russia, The SSPX was over. It was toast. He failed to obey Our Lady in 2006, though the Consecration had been Her desired intention then. The Holy Mother, apparently then, overlooked that failure, but warned him straitly concerning Her single intention for the 2nd Crusade. As we know, +F ignored Her request, and made the lifting of the so-called excommunications the theme for that RC. The rest is history. The sspx is toast. Folks had better leave the fallen apostolate while they still can.
I agree with you. The SSPX is toast.
Gamaliel was right: Acts 5:38-39
You seem to have a problem with the SSPX, not the neo-SSPX.
So I vehemently disagree with you.
The SSPX was the work of God. It was good and holy. But like the Catholic Church itself, it was made up of men and so it has many bad elements in it.
If God could allow the Catholic Church itself to become what it is today -- we're talking about the Bride of Christ which has the solemn promise of Christ that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". How much easier would it be for a good organization like the SSPX to corrupt and fall?
That is what happened. It wasn't rotten from the outset. +ABL was a saint. His work (the SSPX) was the most Catholic group around. It was a beautiful, good organization blessed by God and bore many, many good fruits.
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"It is better that scandal arise than that the truth be suppressed."
Pope St. Gregory the Great
What could be more satanic and cultic than SSPX priests and superiors closing ranks to make themselves accomplices in the sodomite abuse of children?
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Matthew, I don't care that you disagree with me.
Yes, but I'd like to let the record show that you have an axe to grind against the SSPX from the very beginning, even when it was headed by the saintly Archbishop Lefebvre.
So your motives, even in opposing sodomy at an SSPX school, are suspect. Sure, perhaps you're against Sodomy (aren't we all?), but for you this is a perfect chance to kick your old enemy the SSPX a bunch of times. Not the neo-SSPX, but the good, original SSPX (including its modern day successor, the Resistance).
Just like many have questioned my motives when I allowed CathInfo to cover a scandal occurring at a Sedevacantist or Pfeifferian chapel.
P.S. I up-thumbed several of your posts -- quite a few of them.
But once you started getting into attacking the root of the SSPX -- your Gamaliel reference (If it's the work of God, nothing can stop it, otherwise it will come to nothing) and saying "you should re-think your original position" -- I thumbed both of those down.
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Is this scandal confirmed. If so then that's bad
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While you two have at each other, I might get a little practical here by pointing out that a solution for this type of thing was perfected in the days of the Plantagenet King Edward II-solved the problem immediately and completely.
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Alexandrina,
I'm not going to derail this thread any further. I removed our little "argument" lest the thread get derailed.
If you want to continue talking about SSPX vs. Sedevacantism, I got a nice thread started here:
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/The-SSPX-Resistance-is-superior-to-sedevacantism
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I'm not claiming to get direct communications from above, but I think this suggestion for a Rosary Crusade is a better idea than the one proposed by the SSPX.
Asking for the Pope to consecrate Fatima is never going to get anywhere with Popes that don't believe anything beyond compromising with the "current circuмstances" as they see them.
Asking specifically for the BVM to bind a notorious and horrific demon by name (Asmodeus) is the shortest most direct route to making any kind of positive change. The landscape has to be altered in a dynamic way that the Pope or Popes will see inevitably a lifting of the demonic weight that has been put on the world. That might give them some faith and courage.
http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=41325&min=0&num=3
If the BVM were to respond and fulfill our request and bind the demon, it would be really an amazing thing to see when the "zeal" for something so unnatural is cut to a mere fraction of what it is today. Reality will have room to breathe in the minds of people and the natural reaction will reassert itself.
Maybe someone knows someone in Post Falls and the other SSPX enclaves and the people can actually do the Rosary Crusade and see if their boys troubled by this demon will straighten up.
Start August 15th and take it through September the month of the Angels.
No counting rosaries to hand them to an organization, no bouquet, just the cries of the poor, banished children of Eve.
I'm amazed at the lack of response I've gotten (not even a polite refusal) from the various traditionalist "luminaries" I've sent the suggestion to.
Fear? If so, I'd say it's definitely the right thing to do.
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Maybe the Blessed Mother doesn't want to bind the demons, maybe they are being unleashed throughout the world as a punishment for mankind's sins. Didn't Saint Paul say that God let the demons pervert sinful men to sodomy because of their sins of idolatry? Maybe that is why God is letting these horrible demons pervert us. Didn't Our Lady warn us in her apparitions at Fatima to do penance and very few of us or our ancestors did any worthy penance.
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It is still being withheld from the parents of the involved children. Of the few parents who have been told by other parents that their child is involved, there is mostly denial. The affected children of sodomy, molestation, group masturbation are not receiving any help or counselling. These sins are spreading in the homes to the younger siblings. The parents of most all the school children of all grades have no idea of the widespread affect that has spread over the last two years. At the most recent parent meeting, parents were told by father this was "normal" pubescent behavior, "imprudent" but "not really mortal sin".
Pray for the people of post falls. We just want to protect the children.
This is completely mind-boggling to me!
Edit: I just had to re-read what pendulum wrote...when you say "parents were told by father" did you mean FATHER VASSAL or a FATHER of a child accused of molesting a fellow student??
If there was a PRIEST at the parents meeting who said that boy-on-boy mutual masturbation is "normal" and "not really mortal sin" then HE needs to be run out of the place on a rail - POST HASTE!
If there were parents at the parents meeting who said that boy-on-boy mutual masturbation is "normal" and "not really mortal sin" then THEY need to be run out of the place on a rail along WITH the priests!
It's actually ILLEGAL. It called sɛҳuąƖ abuse. These things happen in public schools too, on campus, and those kids get arrested and end up on the local evening news around here.
Whoever this group of parents is, if they really want to stop this train of perversion, they need to make good on their threat to issue a public statement and/or lawsuit and be specific.
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....
Asking specifically for the BVM to bind a notorious and horrific demon by name (Asmodeus) is the shortest most direct route to making any kind of positive change. The landscape has to be altered in a dynamic way that the Pope or Popes will see inevitably a lifting of the demonic weight that has been put on the world.
......
Don't worry....Almighty God is definitely going to "alter the landscape in a dynamic way" in the coming Chastisement predicted by Our Lady of Fatima. He just isn't quite ready yet......
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....
Asking specifically for the BVM to bind a notorious and horrific demon by name (Asmodeus) is the shortest most direct route to making any kind of positive change. The landscape has to be altered in a dynamic way that the Pope or Popes will see inevitably a lifting of the demonic weight that has been put on the world.
......
Don't worry....Almighty God is definitely going to "alter the landscape in a dynamic way" in the coming Chastisement predicted by Our Lady of Fatima. He just isn't quite ready yet......
True and that does not relieve us of our duties to Catholic Action.
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"Different... in no way related..."???!!!
As if THREE sɛҳuąƖ scandals at the SAME parish in a short period of time are mere unrelated coincidences?
As if the identical PATTERN of response to the THREE sɛҳuąƖ scandals—ignoring warnings of children, teachers and parents; lying to parents; threatening the messengers—is mere coincidence and appropriate?
As if Catholic morality teaches that the public safety of children is trumped by fear of the sin of detraction (telling the truth)?
Completely deceitful rubbish on your part.
We have been to your rodeo before, Catholic444, and you do not fool us. The droppings you leave, your vague insinuations, are a type of gaslighting. To be clear, the public danger to children and the notoriety of these scandals eliminates the issue of "detraction."
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I don't think it is detraction to publicize this scandal. I think the public good and the safety of children demands that it be made public.
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Very well, 444, let's hear from you. What exactly is that 'exaggeration,' which you accuse certain forum members of making? I am in no way meaning to be confrontational or belligerent. I just want to hear your side of it, since you say you were there "at the meeting mentioned." What exactly was exaggerated about a statement Fr. Vassal made? What things have been written on this forum which are damaging to the boys? I think major damage was done to these boys long before the topic ever came up on Cathinfo. It would seem to me that the situation at ICA could not have gotten much worse, and that the prior, along with a number of teachers and parents, perhaps, may have failed to conduct proper oversight from several years past.
Since you have deigned to post on Cathinfo, you should probably explain in greater detail what you mean in subsequent posts.
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If I can prevent another child from being raped I would be willing to remain in Purgatory until the end of time for the sin of detraction. Better for me to detract the guilty than for an innocent child to lose their purity and maybe their faith. And charity to the perpetrators demand that we take any and all steps to prevent them from continuing to commit this grievous sin.
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You can't treat a holy Catholic bishop like trash and not pay a spiritual price....God is allowing the SSPX to be punished...It's Superior General hasn't even apologized yet...so how can the healing begin? Meanwhile Zion cheering Americanists at St. Michael the Archangel on LI are bringing in lying lawyers and walking around with tape recorders....These people haven't been appeased. They have no concept of Catholic Social Doctrine, they're as ignorant as the day is long..I know a priest in the local NO who says the Latin Mass and is more militant than the avg. SSPX priest...I think I know why: Because Bishop Jeugis is more likely to back him up than Bp. Fellay or the American District Sup.... :reporter:
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Maybe the Blessed Mother doesn't want to bind the demons, maybe they are being unleashed throughout the world as a punishment for mankind's sins. Didn't Saint Paul say that God let the demons pervert sinful men to sodomy because of their sins of idolatry? Maybe that is why God is letting these horrible demons pervert us. Didn't Our Lady warn us in her apparitions at Fatima to do penance and very few of us or our ancestors did any worthy penance.
We have nothing to lose by asking. As far as I know, it has never even been tried on a large scale. There have been zillions of prayers for the graces to be given the Pope to consecrate Russia with the bishops. They are afraid to do that. The more perverse the world gets, the more afraid they become. And they willfully refuse to fulfill the request.
If we ask her to remove the demonic, the humanity of the population will have a chance to resurface and angels and saints can move in. We can take away what is causing the Popes to be so fearful or at least diminish it to the point where even they in their weakness will dare to try something. We can get a consecration finally.
She won't interfere with the Pope's free will. Conversely she has no such restrictions when it comes to bouncing a demon off the proverbial walls a few times and forcing them to stop.
Our Lady might give us 80% of a victory and then wait for the consecration as the finishing touch.
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We have nothing to lose by asking.
If you organize it and let us know the details I will try to pray with you. This SSPX sodomy scandal has really phazed me.
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Gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of mental abuse in which a victim is manipulated into doubting their own memory, perception, and sanity. Instances may range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.
The term owes its origin to the 1938 play Gas Light and its film adaptations. The term has been used in clinical and research literature.
I would add that "catholic444" is also engaged in psy-ops and attempted manipulation (steering) of the forum's discussion on this topic.
When people like this can't deny something outright, they do their best to help their cause (limit the damage) in other ways: obfuscation, shoot the messenger, cast doubt, and gaslight as many people as you can.
Note that this person hasn't been a member of CathInfo for long. He joined just to do damage control.
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Just once, I'd like to get a memo from a priest explaining what his thought processes were.
Perhaps he is thinking:
"I have special knowledge to know this is not really a sin". To think this way he would have to hold no faith in Church teachings. Why wouldn't some such person join the N.O. where he'd have plenty of camouflage?
or
"I'll just go to confession in a few days". ("Brave" man that).
It would appear there would be at least 3 separate grave sins involved. The wretched act itself. The degradation of an innocent. The scandal to the faithful who are presently making some strenuous efforts to discern the truth.
Are the priests involved aware of the fact that absolving one's own partner in a sinful act is a sin who's absolution is reserved to the Holy See?
That could be a real problem for a sede priest, and possibly a major problem for even a SSPX priest.
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Matthew:
When people like this can't deny something outright, they do their best to help their cause (limit the damage) in other ways: obfuscation, shoot the messenger, cast doubt, and gaslight as many people as you can.
Note that this person hasn't been a member of CathInfo for long. He joined just to do damage control.
Matthew makes a very intriguing point. 444 has just joined the conversation. He's some kind of an ICA insider and knows what went down. So, if he is not 'gas lighting,' then my request, in an earlier post, that he clarify his remarks and explain them in some greater detail, is not unreasonable. 444 may still do this, but thus far, he has not.
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While you two have at each other, I might get a little practical here by pointing out that a solution for this type of thing was perfected in the days of the Plantagenet King Edward II-solved the problem immediately and completely.
Tossed out a very high window—"defenestration"—if I recall correctly.
Well, the story that was whispered for years after his death has been subject to a lot of claims of untruth in the modern era, but it persists. Of course, it would be very offensive to the sodomite historians who are everywhere.
No windows were involved, just a red-hot piece of metal that ended up in an uncomfortable place that the king had previously used for disgusting purposes. The implement continued on shredding and frying intestines and anything else in its way. I hesitate to get any more specific.
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Gaslighting or gas-lighting is a form of mental abuse in which a victim is manipulated into doubting their own memory, perception, and sanity. Instances may range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.
The term owes its origin to the 1938 play Gas Light and its film adaptations. The term has been used in clinical and research literature.
I would add that "catholic444" is also engaged in psy-ops and attempted manipulation (steering) of the forum's discussion on this topic.
When people like this can't deny something outright, they do their best to help their cause (limit the damage) in other ways: obfuscation, shoot the messenger, cast doubt, and gaslight as many people as you can.
Note that this person hasn't been a member of CathInfo for long. He joined just to do damage control.
I specified "a type" of gaslighting. Generally gaslighting involves making a person doubt their sanity. In the case of Catholic444, his/her/its "type" of gaslighting was an effort to make us doubt our morality, the morality of telling the truth to protect children and to end the public danger by bringing the accomplices to justice.
The agenda of the enabler's "drive by" attack (in the very first post) is perfectly transparent. Keep your eyes on the ball, friends, these accomplices are very tricky. It is their morality that is damnable, not ours.
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It is still being withheld from the parents of the involved children. Of the few parents who have been told by other parents that their child is involved, there is mostly denial. The affected children of sodomy, molestation, group masturbation are not receiving any help or counselling. These sins are spreading in the homes to the younger siblings. The parents of most all the school children of all grades have no idea of the widespread affect that has spread over the last two years. At the most recent parent meeting, parents were told by father this was "normal" pubescent behavior, "imprudent" but "not really mortal sin".
Pray for the people of post falls. We just want to protect the children.
This is completely mind-boggling to me!
Edit: I just had to re-read what pendulum wrote...when you say "parents were told by father" did you mean FATHER VASSAL or a FATHER of a child accused of molesting a fellow student??
If there was a PRIEST at the parents meeting who said that boy-on-boy mutual masturbation is "normal" and "not really mortal sin" then HE needs to be run out of the place on a rail - POST HASTE!
If there were parents at the parents meeting who said that boy-on-boy mutual masturbation is "normal" and "not really mortal sin" then THEY need to be run out of the place on a rail along WITH the priests!
It's actually ILLEGAL. It called sɛҳuąƖ abuse. These things happen in public schools too, on campus, and those kids get arrested and end up on the local evening news around here.
Whoever this group of parents is, if they really want to stop this train of perversion, they need to make good on their threat to issue a public statement and/or lawsuit and be specific.
Exactly. It appears that pendulum is the only poster who has witnessed actual events (parents' meeting) connected with the allegations. Unfortunately, the inconsistencies in his post raises more questions than it answers. And still no response when asked to clarify.
Until the parents issue their promised communique it's as reasonable (and probably more prudent) to doubt as it is to believe.
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We have nothing to lose by asking.
If you organize it and let us know the details I will try to pray with you. This SSPX sodomy scandal has really phazed me.
August 15th, Feast of the Assumption through September, the month devoted to the Holy Angels.
No bouquets to be presented with lists to a Pope. Our Lady will be aware of what we send her.
The one request is to ask our Lady to bind the demon Asmodeus worldwide.
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Is this scandal actually true or not
You post TWICE in the main thread saying basically the same thing.
Then you start a new topic, as if the foregoing actions weren't enough.
Why are you so anxious, upset, or impatient about this? Why does it matter to you so much?
We have several members from Post Falls on CathInfo, and none of them has said, "WTF? This is all made up nonsense. I haven't heard about anything close to this going on."
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The parents of affected boys will be putting out a public letter soon.
I assume these parents know they still need to move forward with this, or people WILL start to wonder...
If any of those parents are out there reading this, I have a message: don't even THINK for a SECOND that this thread on CathInfo has made your public letter obsolete. Quite the contrary!
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Thing is I hope this is not covered up if true. Catholic morality is clear that things like this must be spread( , the news of it, ) to safeguard the welfare of others. It's not detraction to warn of grave dangers to others safety. We need to see if parents release a statement. This is so sad
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Just imagine the heartbreak, unbearable...
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Unfortunately I am still new to posting on this forum.
Unfortunately the involved parents havent released their letter.
Unfortunately the story hasn't hit the public news papers because pressing multiple neglect charges and gathering statements etc. take time.
This post has only been open a few days.
The people and parents of post falls have been trying to find the truth for over two years and this right on the heels of the sloniker abuses. All parents are wondering which families are affected, which arent , and which families are in denial .
My child is young. I am not a high school parent. I was at the parent meeting led by Fr Vassal where he contradicted himself multiple times and continued to tell us parents that all of these incidents are in the past.
He said that its normal for 14-15 year old boys to engage in this behavior (? I dont believe group masturbation is ever normal , let alone molestation, or sodomy, whether consensual or not)
Next was said all those boys involved graduated two years previously (which would have made them 17-18 years old which is past his "normal". Also it wasn't true because teachers and parents have continuously been coming for help for their boys (of various high school ages) in the subsequent years).
He stated that maybe one incident happened on campus. I know many incidents happened in at least three locations two years ago, and last year the boys were given an unsupervised locker room.
I have spoken to high school parents. They did seek help, their children sought help. They were ill advised and the boys remained on campus. Its my understanding that not one boy ever was suspended for one day for this behavior. So far, it is established that this has spread to 8-9th grade boys this last school year. At least one family has had an older brother affect (molest?) his younger brother.
These boys have been neglected following the sloniker scandal. They have been neglected. They have been neglected by the school faculty who refused in interfere and provide safety for the boys seeking help.
Currently there is impure touching (crotch grabbing, tittie twisters, humping (rubbing genitals on others)) Im embarassed just writing this. All of these offenses are suspension in the public school system.
"The problem of passing from unbelief to belief is that belief necessitates action"
My action is to remove my child from school. Ica will not get any money from our family till this problem is eradicated. (How?, I dont know) (f.y.I. The school has roughly 200 students, roughly 40 or which are high schoolers. There is no way of knowing how many elementary level children have been affected by older relatives)
The parents here do not want to believe.
The sspx has been given the opportunity to remove the priest and help the children, and the families will remain quiet to lower the scandal. The sspx response has been along the lines of - people will not dictate to Menzingen. So fr vassal will stay and scandal will tear us and our church family apart.
I am so proud of and pray for these boys and families who are willing to come forward to seek help and stop these abuses. I can only pray that all families open their eyes and hearts and seek the truth from the many families willing to talk.
The letter will come, its in formation. These things take time. Lawyers are helping. The police have their investigation. All we can do is pray and spread the word as the sspx is trying to downplay the situation.
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Just imagine the heartbreak, unbearable...
Yes, and for parents to come forward, in a public letter, will take incredible courage. What if one of your children was involved in some way and it became public knowledge? The famiily name, your child's name, is forever damaged, whether victim or perpetrator. I think it would be better to consult legal counsel before moving forward with any letter. Maybe they have.
This involves law enforcement so all is going to be revealed in time. In the meantime, let's pray for these families.
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That letter has to be released. SSPX cover ups are inexcusable and probably illegal
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Next was said all those boys involved graduated two years previously (which would have made them 17-18 years old which is past his "normal". Also it wasn't true because teachers and parents have continuously been coming for help for their boys (of various high school ages) in the subsequent years).
He stated that maybe one incident happened on campus. I know many incidents happened in at least three locations two years ago, and last year the boys were given an unsupervised locker room.
Someone needs to do a check to see if any of the ICA grads are at any seminaries or working jobs in contact with children.
When Fr Vassal says this is normal for boys does that mean he was like this in his youth? And those who don't engage are.....abnormal?
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Next was said all those boys involved graduated two years previously (which would have made them 17-18 years old which is past his "normal". Also it wasn't true because teachers and parents have continuously been coming for help for their boys (of various high school ages) in the subsequent years).
He stated that maybe one incident happened on campus. I know many incidents happened in at least three locations two years ago, and last year the boys were given an unsupervised locker room.
Someone needs to do a check to see if any of the ICA grads are at any seminaries or working jobs in contact with children.
When Fr Vassal says this is normal for boys does that mean he was like this in his youth? And those who don't engage are.....abnormal?
This is very disturbing
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Mark: This is one of a very short list of things that will cure the SSPX.
At this point, I fear, nothing will cure the SSPX. Our Lady was reported to have told +Fellay, that unless he made the 2nd Rosary Crusade in 2008 for the Consecration of Russia, The SSPX was over. It was toast. He failed to obey Our Lady in 2006, though the Consecration had been Her desired intention then. The Holy Mother, apparently then, overlooked that failure, but warned him straitly concerning Her single intention for the 2nd Crusade. As we know, +F ignored Her request, and made the lifting of the so-called excommunications the theme for that RC. The rest is history. The sspx is toast. Folks had better leave the fallen apostolate while they still can.
Likely you are correct, but perhaps a legal kick in the teeth, the associated and deserved public humiliation, and resultant closed wallets will lessen the hubris of the liars and enablers of pederasts. Perhaps not.
To rub salt in our wounds, Fr. Crane's sermon in Phoenix today was about how parents should be putting their children in Society schools. What gall! Fr. Crane is among the ones who "allegedly" turned a deaf ear when he was warned about his parishioner and "camp counselor" pederast Sloniker.
Anyone who has children in a Society school needs to be vigilant and to teach their children to flee shrieking from any sɛҳuąƖ overtures and to immediately report the problem to mom and dad, who, in turn, should call the police, completely bypassing any liars and enablers.
Sad to say, we cannot trust the Society denials and reassurances. They have earned our mistrust.
Fr. Crane has his head in the sand. He is on the same level as that priest that went with Pfeiffer.
I've kept quiet about a lot, but no more.
Many of you really need to pray hard and long about your original position.
Father is a former trained law enforcement officer who should have contacted the local law enforcement immediately. All these SSPX priests are aware of the novus ordo sex abuse scandals. During negotiations with Rome and SSPX is there any dialogue about the sodomist/ pederast crisis within the Church?
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He said that its normal for 14-15 year old boys to engage in this behavior.
This is ridiculous! Further, the inaction, PR campaign (I mean the "meeting") with the parents, and the bureaucratic way this is being handled by the 'superiors' (who are located in another state or country) is CRAZY. Where's the common sense? It sounds like most of the laity is pretty niave.
Just my opinion, (and this is cynical but the society leadership has lost all respect,) but I think Menzingen is trying to sweep this under the rug, as most of the 'superiors' care more about 'the deal' than the Faith anyways. They had probably hoped 'the deal' would've happened sooner then this would be Rome's problem.
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Aren't priests supposed to teach the virtue of purity? What happened to that? It is one thing for a young boy to fall into sins of impurity but it is another for a priest to dismiss them as "normal" behavior. These children will be scarred for life.
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He said that its normal for 14-15 year old boys to engage in this behavior (? I dont believe group masturbation is ever normal , let alone molestation, or sodomy, whether consensual or not)
This was one of the most disturbing parts.
So in the mind of Fr. Vassal, this behavior is normal? I feel like he's just given us TMI (Too Much Information) about himself. How does he judge this to be normal, and does that mean to do otherwise is abnormal? Is he abnormal, or did many of his male friends and family do this as youths? Which is it?
Because pendulum is absolutely right. Group masturbation and/or sodomy among boys -- or men -- is NOT normal, at least if you restrict yourself to non-pervert, non-sodomites.
I don't know what boys or men HE's been hanging around, but that is most certainly NOT normal, not even among non-Catholics and the neo-pagans that surround us. Your typical non-Catholic young man today, adrift in the corrupt modern world, is usually guilty of self-abuse (masturbation) and/or pornography use and/or fornication, but that is a whole different animal from group masturbation and sodomy!
Just for starters, the sin of masturbation that many young men fall into is a PRIVATE sin, a shameful vice committed behind closed doors that only they themselves know about, and no one witnesses directly (except for their guardian angel and God).
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He said that its normal for 14-15 year old boys to engage in this behavior (? I dont believe group masturbation is ever normal , let alone molestation, or sodomy, whether consensual or not)
This was one of the most disturbing parts.
So in the mind of Fr. Vassal, this behavior is normal? I feel like he's just given us TMI (Too Much Information) about himself. How does he judge this to be normal, and does that mean to do otherwise is abnormal? Is he abnormal, or did many of his male friends and family do this as youths? Which is it?
Because pendulum is absolutely right. Group masturbation and/or sodomy among boys -- or men -- is NOT normal, at least if you restrict yourself to non-pervert, non-sodomites.
I don't know what boys or men HE's been hanging around, but that is most certainly NOT normal, not even among non-Catholics and the neo-pagans that surround us. Your typical non-Catholic young man today, adrift in the corrupt modern world, is usually guilty of self-abuse (masturbation) and/or pornography use, but that is a whole different animal from group masturbation and sodomy.
Just for starters, the sin of masturbation that many young men fall into is a PRIVATE sin, a shameful vice committed behind closed doors that only they themselves know about, and no one witnesses directly (except for their guardian angel and God).
99% of young men are absolutely repulsed by sodomy. I don't know where he's getting that it's NORMAL from.
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99% of young men are absolutely repulsed by sodomy. I don't know where he's getting that it's NORMAL from.
When I was growing up this was true. But I don't think this is true anymore. For the last twenty five years or so the media has been pushing a relentless propoganda campaign to normalize and promote sodomy and I think it has been effective on most of the brainwashed public. Maybe thirty years actually. The first time I noticed the promotion of sodomy in the media was when I saw an episode of the sitcom "Cheers" in which the unnatural vice was promoted. Before then, I don't remember seeing sodomy discussed much and when I was young the word "gαy" was just an insult and I didn't really understand sodomy and really know what it was until I was quite old. Even when they taught us sex ed in my godless middle school, sodomy was not mentioned.
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God help us all when you have an SSPX priest telling parents ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ boy-on-boy frotteurism/masturbation/sex/etc. is normal and is not a mortal sin!
How can this be?
It is NOT normal!
I don't know if that's what happened to Fr. Vassal growing up in France, or if that is what happens in boarding schools, but it is NOT normal - and it produces fαɢs as a result of it.
:really-mad2:
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Let me clarify
Father Vassal , at a regular end of year school business meeting, informed the parents that the boys had some behavior that he called "peek a boo" . Whether he meant flashing or what, im not sure. he wanted parents to be more vigilant perhaps. However , many parents knew that he was downplaying the real sɛҳuąƖ abuses that had occurred. There was lots of shock and anger. He called the "peek a boo" stuff "normal" for the age group.
Sorry I wasn't clearer.
The real problem isnt ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. It is the sex abuse and resulting perversion. These can lead to pornography addiction, self abuse, molestation, future infidelity etc. There probably should have been a strong high school parents meeting two years ago. Open communication of parents and children. Counselling with professionals etc.
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Let me clarify
Father Vassal , at a regular end of year school business meeting, informed the parents that the boys had some behavior that he called "peek a boo" . Whether he meant flashing or what, im not sure. he wanted parents to be more vigilant perhaps. However , many parents knew that he was downplaying the real sɛҳuąƖ abuses that had occurred. There was lots of shock and anger. He called the "peek a boo" stuff "normal" for the age group.
Sorry I wasn't clearer.
The real problem isnt ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. It is the sex abuse and resulting perversion. These can lead to pornography addiction, self abuse, molestation, future infidelity etc. There probably should have been a strong high school parents meeting two years ago. Open communication of parents and children. Counselling with professionals etc.
Are you saying that there was no mutual or group masturbation, homo sex in the chapel, homo sex in empty school rooms? homo sex in the school bathroom?
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The parents need to write this letter ASAP and send it to Fellay.
Next Rosary crusade should be for getting rid of the sodomists, pedergast and other wolves in sheep clothing who have taken over the Catholic Church.
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I lived in Post Falls for 8 hard years. My family left about 5 years ago. That whole area has a very bad aura that is hard to describe.
I have posted many times on my experiences there so I won't repeate that.
I found out today that another parishioner from IC was just arrested for child molestion.
I spoke to a friend who still lives out there, he has not heard about homo activity at ICA , although this person no longer attends IC.
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Its so hard to be clear.
The horrible actions happened on campus over two school years atleast. (There was group masturbation, sodomy, molestation). In the parents meeting father downplayed all the actions to something he called "peek a boo" which he called "normal" . I suppose he meant pubescent playing around and vulgarity? Not sure.
The campaign now is to downplay everything to one or two boys who are long ago graduated. They're are trying to say there is no ongoing problem at the school. But parents confirm that it is ongoing and that many boys are participants and victims. 8-15 boys. At this time theres no telling how many boys. There are many large families involved.
Is that understandable?
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Its so hard to be clear.
The horrible actions happened on campus over two school years atleast. (There was group masturbation, sodomy, molestation). In the parents meeting father downplayed all the actions to something he called "peek a boo" which he called "normal" . I suppose he meant pubescent playing around and vulgarity? Not sure.
The campaign now is to downplay everything to one or two boys who are long ago graduated. They're are trying to say there is no ongoing problem at the school. But parents confirm that it is ongoing and that many boys are participants and victims. 8-15 boys. At this time theres no telling how many boys. There are many large families involved.
Is that understandable?
Thank you for clarifying that the initial reports were accurate.
To prosecute the priest and prelate accomplices, we need the parents' letter.
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Its so hard to be clear.
The horrible actions happened on campus over two school years atleast. (There was group masturbation, sodomy, molestation). In the parents meeting father downplayed all the actions to something he called "peek a boo" which he called "normal" . I suppose he meant pubescent playing around and vulgarity? Not sure.
The campaign now is to downplay everything to one or two boys who are long ago graduated. They're are trying to say there is no ongoing problem at the school. But parents confirm that it is ongoing and that many boys are participants and victims. 8-15 boys. At this time theres no telling how many boys. There are many large families involved.
Is that understandable?
Thank you for clarifying that the initial reports were accurate.
To prosecute the priest and prelate accomplices, we need the parents' letter.
I agree. That letter must be publicised.
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I found out today that another parishioner from IC was just arrested for child molestion.
Because you said this, I just googled it.
I have to say, I'm getting to a point I can hardly handle this story any longer, it makes it hard to breathe.
This just went nuclear.
And this is happening in a tiny little Trad Catholic town??
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/jul/11/thrirteen-arrested-in-sting-targeting-child-rapist/
Thirteen arrested in sting targeting child rapists in Spokane County
By Chad Sokol
chadso@spokesman.com
(509) 459-5047
Thirteen people have been arrested in Spokane County in a major sting operation targeting would-be child rapists.
Nine of the suspects appeared in Spokane County Superior Court Monday afternoon and four had hearings last week. Most responded to a Craigslist ad posted by detectives from the Missing and Exploited Children Task Force, a division of the Washington State Patrol. Some posted their own ads seeking sex with children.
Sgt. Carlos Rodriguez posted the ad posing as a mother of three. He claimed to have 6- and 11-year-old daughters and a 12-year-old son and said they would participate in sex acts in exchange for gifts.
“We base our personas on people we have actually come into contact with,” Rodriguez said. “There’s really only one way to say it: They’re raping children.”
More than 1,000 people responded to the ad in about 20 days, he said. When a respondent seemed intent on committing a crime, detectives continued conversations through emails, texts and phone calls. Female detectives played the voices of a mother and daughter and arranged meetings with the suspects.
“I’ve got more people trying to meet with me right now,” Rodriguez said. “If I sit here and respond to every one, I could average two arrests a day. The concerning thing is that everywhere that we’ve gone, that’s been consistent. Two a day.”
The task force has conducted similar operations in Pierce, Snohomish and Kitsap counties in the past year. The Spokane County investigation brings the total number of sting arrests to about 40, Rodriguez said.
Public defenders, meanwhile, questioned whether the suspects would have committed crimes without coaxing from the detectives.
“The issue is who initiated it,” said Anna Timberlake, who represented three of the suspects in a hearing Monday. “Would these things be initiated were it not for undercover cops?”
Previously, the task force devoted most of its resources to custodial issues, Rodriguez said. The sting operations are a more “proactive” way to bring justice to sex offenders.
Still, he said, it’s impossible to arrest everyone who takes the bait. The two-member task force covers the whole state.
“When you think of task forces, you think of 10 or 15 people going out and getting bad guys,” he said. “Unfortunately, right now, it’s just me and my partner.”
With such little manpower of its own, the task force teamed with more than 30 other investigators from local, state and federal law enforcement agencies.
Of the 13 suspects arrested in Spokane County, only one, Robert Dahms, of Post Falls, is a registered sex offender.
“That’s 12 other people who were trying to rape kids and we didn’t know it,” Rodriguez said.
The first two suspects were arrested July 6, and the last five were arrested Sunday. Their names, and the charges they face, are as follows:
Tim McManis, 51, of Spokane. Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape.
Sandra McManis, 47, of Spokane. Second-degree attempted child rape.
Robert Dahms, 50, of Post Falls. First-degree attempted child rape.
Jason Borseth, 36, of Metaline Falls, Washington. Commercial sex abuse of a minor; first-degree attempted child rape; possession of methamphetamine.
Sean Stevenson, 29, of Spokane. Commercial sex abuse of a minor; two counts of first-degree attempted child rape; second-degree attempted child rape.
Christopher Luman, 54, of Yakima. Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape.
Mechel Fredrick, 26, of Post Falls. First-degree attempted child rape.
Steven Hunt, 58, of Spokane. First-degree attempted child rape.
Joseph Siria, 32, of Spokane. First-degree attempted child rape.
Reggie Oliver, 36, of Spokane. Second-degree attempted child rape.
Eduardo Populus, 56, of Post Falls. Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape.
Glenn Hampton, 47, of Spokane. Second-degree attempted child rape.
Thomas Bramblee, 29, of Spirit Lake, Idaho. Second-degree attempted child rape.
In court hearings Monday, Judge Gregory Sypolt ordered the suspects held on bonds ranging from $40,000 to $100,000. Prosecutors noted previous felony convictions and said some of the suspects work or live with children.
Rodriguez said he doesn’t know if the sting will result in more arrests.
“It’s just resources,” he said. “If we had more people doing what we’re doing, it would be different.”
The task force is a unique government entity in that it can receive private donations. Rodriguez urges people to give directly to the task force or to Operation Underground Railroad, a nonprofit that works against child abuse internationally.
PUBLISHED: JULY 11, 2016, 11:21 A.M.
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http://www.nbcrightnow.com/story/32429667/1-of-the-13-men-arrested-for-child-sex-sting-was-once-a-bus-driver-in-spokane-other-suspects-post-bail
This link has a video of the local news report with photos of each person who was arrested.
SPOKANE, Wash. - One of the 13 suspects arrested in a child abuse sex sting once worked as a school bus driver for Durham School Services in Spokane, staff confirm.
A representative of Durham said Reggie D. Oliver ended his employment with them roughly two years ago for "personal reasons."
13 Spokane area men arrested in child sex sting
Oliver is currently in the Spokane County Jail. He is charged with attempted child rape. His bond is set at $75,000.
Superior Court staff in Spokane said they could find no other felonies associated with Oliver in their system.
The undercover sting by the Washington State Patrol led to the arrest of 13 men, who are now being charged with Attempted Rape of a Child.
Arrested in the sting were:
Christopher Luman, 54, of Otis Orchards (2 counts of 1st Degree Attempted Child Rape)
Sean Stevenson, 29, of Spokane (3 counts of 1st Degree Attempted Child Rape, 1 count of Commercial sɛҳuąƖ Abuse of a Minor)
Joseph Siria, 32 of Spokane ( 1 count of 1st Degree Attempted Child Rape)
Steven Hunt, 58 of Spokane Valley (1 count of 1st Degree Attempted Child Rape)
Mechel Frederick, 26 of Spokane (1 count of 1st Degree Attempted Child Rape)
Tim McManis, 51, of Spokane. (2 counts of 1st Degree Attempted Child Rape)
Sandra McManis, 47, of Spokane. (1 count of 2nd degree Sttempted Child Rape)
Robert Dahms, 50, of Post Falls. (1 count of 1st Degree Attempted Child Rape)
Jason Borseth, 36, of Metaline Falls, Washington. (1 count of Commercial Sex Abuse of a Minor; 1 count of 1st Degree Attempted Child Rape; 1 count of Possession of Methamphetamine)
Reggie Oliver, 36, of Spokane. (1 count of 2nd Degree Attempted Child Rape)
Eduardo Populus, 56, of Post Falls. (2 counts of 1st Degree Attempted Child Rape)
Glenn Hampton, 47, of Spokane. (1 count of 2nd Degree Attempted Child Rape)
Thomas Bramblee, 29, of Spirit Lake, Idaho. (1 count of 2nd Degree Attempted Child Rape)
The married couple who were arrested, Tim and Sandra McManis posted bond and are out of jail. 32-year-old Joseph Siria also posted bond and is out of jail.
:really-mad2:
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Wait a minute, I am not seeing a connection with what happened in Post Falls and the news report. Please explain the exact connection.
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I found out today that another parishioner from IC was just arrested for child molestion.
Because you said this, I just googled it.
I have to say, I'm getting to a point I can hardly handle this story any longer, it makes it hard to breathe.
This just went nuclear.
And this is happening in a tiny little Trad Catholic town??
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/jul/11/thrirteen-arrested-in-sting-targeting-child-rapist/
Thirteen arrested in sting targeting child rapists in Spokane County
By Chad Sokol
chadso@spokesman.com
(509) 459-5047
Thirteen people have been arrested in Spokane County in a major sting operation targeting would-be child rapists.
Nine of the suspects appeared in Spokane County Superior Court Monday afternoon and four had hearings last week. Most responded to a Craigslist ad posted by detectives from the Missing and Exploited Children Task Force, a division of the Washington State Patrol. Some posted their own ads seeking sex with children.
Sgt. Carlos Rodriguez posted the ad posing as a mother of three. He claimed to have 6- and 11-year-old daughters and a 12-year-old son and said they would participate in sex acts in exchange for gifts.
“We base our personas on people we have actually come into contact with,” Rodriguez said. “There’s really only one way to say it: They’re raping children.”
More than 1,000 people responded to the ad in about 20 days, he said. When a respondent seemed intent on committing a crime, detectives continued conversations through emails, texts and phone calls. Female detectives played the voices of a mother and daughter and arranged meetings with the suspects.
“I’ve got more people trying to meet with me right now,” Rodriguez said. “If I sit here and respond to every one, I could average two arrests a day. The concerning thing is that everywhere that we’ve gone, that’s been consistent. Two a day.”
The task force has conducted similar operations in Pierce, Snohomish and Kitsap counties in the past year. The Spokane County investigation brings the total number of sting arrests to about 40, Rodriguez said.
Public defenders, meanwhile, questioned whether the suspects would have committed crimes without coaxing from the detectives.
“The issue is who initiated it,” said Anna Timberlake, who represented three of the suspects in a hearing Monday. “Would these things be initiated were it not for undercover cops?”
Previously, the task force devoted most of its resources to custodial issues, Rodriguez said. The sting operations are a more “proactive” way to bring justice to sex offenders.
Still, he said, it’s impossible to arrest everyone who takes the bait. The two-member task force covers the whole state.
“When you think of task forces, you think of 10 or 15 people going out and getting bad guys,” he said. “Unfortunately, right now, it’s just me and my partner.”
With such little manpower of its own, the task force teamed with more than 30 other investigators from local, state and federal law enforcement agencies.
Of the 13 suspects arrested in Spokane County, only one, Robert Dahms, of Post Falls, is a registered sex offender.
“That’s 12 other people who were trying to rape kids and we didn’t know it,” Rodriguez said.
The first two suspects were arrested July 6, and the last five were arrested Sunday. Their names, and the charges they face, are as follows:
Tim McManis, 51, of Spokane. Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape.
Sandra McManis, 47, of Spokane. Second-degree attempted child rape.
Robert Dahms, 50, of Post Falls. First-degree attempted child rape.
Jason Borseth, 36, of Metaline Falls, Washington. Commercial sex abuse of a minor; first-degree attempted child rape; possession of methamphetamine.
Sean Stevenson, 29, of Spokane. Commercial sex abuse of a minor; two counts of first-degree attempted child rape; second-degree attempted child rape.
Christopher Luman, 54, of Yakima. Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape.
Mechel Fredrick, 26, of Post Falls. First-degree attempted child rape.
Steven Hunt, 58, of Spokane. First-degree attempted child rape.
Joseph Siria, 32, of Spokane. First-degree attempted child rape.
Reggie Oliver, 36, of Spokane. Second-degree attempted child rape.
Eduardo Populus, 56, of Post Falls. Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape.
Glenn Hampton, 47, of Spokane. Second-degree attempted child rape.
Thomas Bramblee, 29, of Spirit Lake, Idaho. Second-degree attempted child rape.
In court hearings Monday, Judge Gregory Sypolt ordered the suspects held on bonds ranging from $40,000 to $100,000. Prosecutors noted previous felony convictions and said some of the suspects work or live with children.
Rodriguez said he doesn’t know if the sting will result in more arrests.
“It’s just resources,” he said. “If we had more people doing what we’re doing, it would be different.”
The task force is a unique government entity in that it can receive private donations. Rodriguez urges people to give directly to the task force or to Operation Underground Railroad, a nonprofit that works against child abuse internationally.
PUBLISHED: JULY 11, 2016, 11:21 A.M.
I guess that this thing in the post falls school is just tip of iceberg
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Wait a minute, I am not seeing a connection with what happened in Post Falls and the news report. Please explain the exact connection.
"jmid" from Post Falls posted that yet ANOTHER parishioner (not Sloniker) was arrested yesterday for child molestation.
So I googled it.
Kevin Sloniker is due to be sentenced today. Perhaps he is singing like a canary and gave the police enough information to attempt to affect his sentencing, I don't know. But, whatever he told them, it caused the police to conduct a sting operation that has revealed 13 previously unknown child predators - at least one of whom is a parishioner, according to the poster jmid.
That is how they are connected.
:facepalm:
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Wait a minute, I am not seeing a connection with what happened in Post Falls and the news report. Please explain the exact connection.
"jmid" from Post Falls posted that yet ANOTHER parishioner (not Sloniker) was arrested yesterday for child molestation.
So I googled it.
Kevin Sloniker is due to be sentenced today. Perhaps he is singing like a canary and gave the police enough information to attempt to affect his sentencing, I don't know. But, whatever he told them, it caused the police to conduct a sting operation that has revealed 13 previously unknown child predators - at least one of whom is a parishioner, according to the poster jmid.
That is how they are connected.
:facepalm:
mw2016, I didn't quote your previous post about it but Post Falls is not a tiny trad Catholic town. St. Mary's is a tiny, trad Catholic town but Post Falls is a small/medium-sized city in a larger populated area. Many people have migrated there from CA in the past few decades and the whole area has boomed. The parish is a drop in the bucket as far as population goes and the sting took place throughout the county.
It's very disturbing that a parishioner was caught in it, but I doubt Sloniker "sang" to make this happen. From the news reports the two investigators ran stings in other counties as well in the past year.
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This sting operation took place in Spokane and surrounding counties in the state of Washington. Obviously, it did uncover two people who are from Post Falls. One would suppose they were going to cross state lines to commit the acts in Washington and thus were charged there. Sloniker will be sentenced in Idaho so I don't think he has anything to do with what transpired in Spokane. I'm just conjecturing, of course.
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mw2016, I didn't quote your previous post about it but Post Falls is not a tiny trad Catholic town. St. Mary's is a tiny, trad Catholic town but Post Falls is a small/medium-sized city in a larger populated area. Many people have migrated there from CA in the past few decades and the whole area has boomed. The parish is a drop in the bucket as far as population goes and the sting took place throughout the county.
It's very disturbing that a parishioner was caught in it, but I doubt Sloniker "sang" to make this happen. From the news reports the two investigators ran stings in other counties as well in the past year.
Who knows what Sloniker told them. My point being they just "coincidentally" had a reason to conduct a sting after his arrest.
Regardless of the town's size, one child rapist in a parish is shocking enough, nevermind TWO!
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mw2016, I didn't quote your previous post about it but Post Falls is not a tiny trad Catholic town. St. Mary's is a tiny, trad Catholic town but Post Falls is a small/medium-sized city in a larger populated area. Many people have migrated there from CA in the past few decades and the whole area has boomed. The parish is a drop in the bucket as far as population goes and the sting took place throughout the county.
It's very disturbing that a parishioner was caught in it, but I doubt Sloniker "sang" to make this happen. From the news reports the two investigators ran stings in other counties as well in the past year.
Who knows what Sloniker told them. My point being they just "coincidentally" had a reason to conduct a sting after his arrest.
Regardless of the town's size, one child rapist in a parish is shocking enough, nevermind TWO!
I think the correction is important. If the size of the town meant nothing, you would not have commented on it so vehemently to start with. From your posts, the headlines would read "At least one parishioner caught in child rape sting in small traditional Catholic town".
Post Falls is not a small trad Catholic town, the sting was county-wide and the comments have been clear that ONE person caught in the sting was a parishioner. Yet in another post you have translated that as "at least one of the 13". Please, the truth is horrific enough that there is no need to distort the facts to make it sound even worse.
These stings happen everywhere all the time. There really isn't that much coincidence at all. I think you are giving Sloniker too much credit in an odd sort of way. But that's my opinion, just as your speculation is yours.
Yes, with Sloniker there are now two total that we know of from Post Falls. I truthfully think we could not handle the horror if we knew all that goes on in every parish, much less every city. God in His mercy somehow preserves us from knowing all the evil around us or we would surely die of shock, horror, panic, depression, despair etc... The little we do find out serves hopefully as cautionary tales and motivation for extra prayer, penance and prudence.
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Keep your eyes on the ball. The problem remains. Priests were warned by teachers, students, and parents. In all three instances, priests variously concealed, lied, and did the SSPX's typical "kill the messenger." The priests are enablers, accomplices in heinous crimes against children... and one of those priests, Fr. Vassal, remains in place putting children at continued risk. Another priest, Fr. Crane, has been musical-chaired to Phoenix where children there remain at risk. No forthcoming admissions, no unreserved apologies, no reparations at all, no forum for parents to address their concerns, no plans at all to prevent future such problems.
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Eduardo Populus, 56, of Post Falls. Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape.
This is as shocking as Kevin Sloniker.
The Populus Family was at ICC from almost Day One. One of those "fine, fine, solid Catholic families" we heard so much about and who were held up to the rest of us as one to emulate.
:rolleyes:
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The priests' crimes against our community demand our involvement in uncovering the details and our involvement in ensuring that this never happens again.
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Eduardo Populus, 56, of Post Falls. Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape.
This is as shocking as Kevin Sloniker.
The Populus Family was at ICC from almost Day One. One of those "fine, fine, solid Catholic families" we heard so much about and who were held up to the rest of us as one to emulate.
:rolleyes:
BTW, here is the definition of first-degree child rape in Washington state:
First degree rape of a child occurs when there is sɛҳuąƖ intercourse (sɛҳuąƖ penetration, however slight, with an object or body part) between a minor who is 11 or younger, and a defendant who is at least two years older than the minor. This offense is a class A felony, which incurs a fine of up to $50,000, up to life in prison, or both.
So this is not some dude wanting to hook up with a very mature looking teen.
Also, for those who have not lived in Post Falls--news flash...it is a small town. The biggest thing going on there is IC and the meth labs.
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Eduardo Populus, 56, of Post Falls. Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape.
This is as shocking as Kevin Sloniker.
The Populus Family was at ICC from almost Day One. One of those "fine, fine, solid Catholic families" we heard so much about and who were held up to the rest of us as one to emulate.
:rolleyes:
BTW, here is the definition of first-degree child rape in Washington state:
First degree rape of a child occurs when there is sɛҳuąƖ intercourse (sɛҳuąƖ penetration, however slight, with an object or body part) between a minor who is 11 or younger, and a defendant who is at least two years older than the minor. This offense is a class A felony, which incurs a fine of up to $50,000, up to life in prison, or both.
So this is not some dude wanting to hook up with a very mature looking teen.
Also, for those who have not lived in Post Falls--news flash...it is a small town. The biggest thing going on there is IC and the meth labs.
You forgot the black tar heroin addicts. And, you are, of course, right. It is a small town. Small town with tons of amoral and dysfunctional families.
Do you know how they caught these perverts? An undercover went on Craig's List offering her two children for sale. A married couple responded saying their fantasy was to have sex with children.
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Wallowing in the lurid aspects of the horror does not address the fixable problem—priest accomplices.
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99% of young men are absolutely repulsed by sodomy. I don't know where he's getting that it's NORMAL from.
When I was growing up this was true. But I don't think this is true anymore. For the last twenty five years or so the media has been pushing a relentless propoganda campaign to normalize and promote sodomy and I think it has been effective on most of the brainwashed public. Maybe thirty years actually. The first time I noticed the promotion of sodomy in the media was when I saw an episode of the sitcom "Cheers" in which the unnatural vice was promoted. Before then, I don't remember seeing sodomy discussed much and when I was young the word "gαy" was just an insult and I didn't really understand sodomy and really know what it was until I was quite old. Even when they taught us sex ed in my godless middle school, sodomy was not mentioned.
Actually, I would distinguish.
Like Abortion, I think a lot more people would be against it if they saw pictures of what it really looked like.
Talking about "everyone should love who they love" sounds great on paper -- it's feminine, sentimental, "nithe", and all the virtually castrated "men" of today are happy to jump on board.
But if they knew the exact, filthy details of what sodomites do behind closed doors, they'd lose their lunch. And they certainly wouldn't be any less repulsed by the idea of engaging in such behavior themselves.
There's a reason the gαy "scene" is invariably mixed up with drug and alcohol abuse. What they're doing to each other is not natural.
Another fundamental element to the gαy scene is promiscuity. But that stands to reason, since they can't exactly focus on "other" elements of their relationship like raising their children, now can they? So for them, it is 100% about sex.
The media has lied to us about "gαy marriage" as well. 99% of sodomites aren't interested in getting married -- at all.
But the vile media flips that completely around. 99% of gαy couples in movies and TV are presented as normal: wanting to be loved by one person, wanting to grow old with that person -- basically a male-male version of any of our wholesome Catholic marriages.
The Jєωιѕн diabolical lying media would have us believe that the only difference between a traditional Catholic holy marriage and a gαy couple is the "plumbing". What a filthy lie!
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Wallowing in the lurid aspects of the horror does not address the fixable problem—priest accomplices.
I'm not wallowing. This all just proves that not one traditional chapel is a safe haven. Parents must be vigilant at all times. Most importantly, don't ever take a family or a person at face value because they appear so pious. Looks are deceiving, and all that glitters isn't gold.
In the nineties a family took off in the middle of the night because it was found out that the father was sɛҳuąƖly molesting his step-daughters.
What's going on there isn't new.
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From the mailbag:
I think there is an important connection with Ed Populus (the one just arrested for attempted 1st degree child rape, and the boys school. I have heard that he is the janitor there (at Immaculate Conception Academy). Maybe you could ask if anyone can verify that.
I think it is from a reliable source.
His main work I believe is Populus Painting, but I was told that he works for the boys school as a janitor. He was a fill in for another man, but has decided to take it on more permanently (or so I was told).
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Wallowing in the lurid aspects of the horror does not address the fixable problem—priest accomplices.
I'm not wallowing. This all just proves that not one traditional chapel is a safe haven. Parents must be vigilant at all times. Most importantly, don't ever take a family or a person at face value because they appear so pious. Looks are deceiving, and all that glitters isn't gold.
In the nineties a family took off in the middle of the night because it was found out that the father was sɛҳuąƖly molesting his step-daughters.
What's going on there isn't new.
I wasn't making a personal attack on you, only returning the focus to the fixable community problem—priest accomplices.
We will not be able to eliminate all sin from our community, but as sure as God made little green apples, we can eliminate priest accomplices from our community and the cultic clericalism that spawned such enablers.
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From the mailbag:
I think there is an important connection with Ed Populus (the one just arrested for attempted 1st degree child rape, and the boys school. I have heard that he is the janitor there (at Immaculate Conception Academy). Maybe you could ask if anyone can verify that.
I think it is from a reliable source.
Maybe Hollingsworth can find that out. I have no idea if he is the janitor. If he is, that would explain plenty about the boys at the academy and what is allegedly going down.
The only thing I know is that the Populus family has been there at ICC for decades.
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Wallowing in the lurid aspects of the horror does not address the fixable problem—priest accomplices.
I'm not wallowing. This all just proves that not one traditional chapel is a safe haven. Parents must be vigilant at all times. Most importantly, don't ever take a family or a person at face value because they appear so pious. Looks are deceiving, and all that glitters isn't gold.
In the nineties a family took off in the middle of the night because it was found out that the father was sɛҳuąƖly molesting his step-daughters.
What's going on there isn't new.
I wasn't making a personal attack on you, only returning the focus to the fixable community problem—priest accomplices.
We will not be able to eliminate all sin from our community, but as sure as God made little green apples, we can eliminate priest accomplices from our community and the cultic clericalism that spawned such enablers.
But it is all over no matter where you go. There is nowhere to hide from it.
The SSPX in no different from the Church or any other religious order or community - they all have two bottom lines - saving their own hides and reputations, and your money. That's their only two interests when it comes down to it.
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From the mailbag:
Found an interesting connection.
http://www.myfoxspokane.com/1-of-the-13-men-arrested-for-child-sex-sting-was-once-a-bus-driver-in-spokane-other-suspects-post-bail/
One of those surnames of the accused, from Post Falls, is a rare surname. There are only 137 people with the name Populus living in the United States and nearly 100 of them live in Louisiana. There are two SSPX Catholics with the name Populus both hailing from Post Falls. Google it.
That indicates that Eduardo Populus, 56, of Post Falls, ID might well be a Trad too. I'd speculate an uncle or father given the 30 year age gap. The town of Post Falls has a population of less than 30,000 people. What are the chances that two families called "Populus" live there with no connection to each other, if there are only 137 people with that surname in the whole of the US? Seems pretty remote to me.
I'd offer 10 to 1 odds that they are connected family members suggesting that the accused perp is in someway connected to the SSPX laity. Because you don't move to Post-Falls ID if you've lapsed.
and another person writes in:
It looks like some people don't realize this is the same Ed Populus from Immaculate Conception Church. It is him, there is a video of the accused and he is definitely one of them. I do not doubt that it is the same Ed Populus (father and grandfather to many here in Post Falls).
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There may be a connection but at the same time, the requirements for first degree child rape would indicate he was interested in the girls. The boy's age would qualify for second degree. Populus was charged with (attempted) first degree only.
I feel very much for his family and hope this is as much a surprise for them as it is for us. I hope they aren't online reading any of this.
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If you read the articles related to the arrest, you will see that detectives questioned him, and his responses indicate that he was interested in the younger girl(s).
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Alexandria, Neither I nor anyone else here has suggested hiding.
Several here, myself included, propose obtaining the necessary background details so that we may proceed knowledgeably with ridding our community of the priest accomplices and the SSPX's cultic "kill the messenger" clericalism.
The fish is rotting from the head down.
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Update, we can all be sure it's the same "Populus".
From the mailbag:
It looks like some people don't realize this is the same Ed Populus from Immaculate Conception Church. It is him, there is a video of the accused and he is definitely one of them. I do not doubt that it is the same Ed Populus (father and grandfather to many here in Post Falls).
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Alexandria, Neither I nor anyone else here has suggested hiding.
Several here, myself included, propose obtaining the necessary background details so that we may proceed knowledgeably with ridding our community of the priest accomplices and the SSPX's cultic "kill the messenger" clericalism.
The fish is rotting from the head down.
I wasn't saying that you were suggesting it.
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But you have to hope that a bunch of people won't move there now, or some people in Post Falls might wake up, compared to what would have happened if no public thread like this existed. We have to hope!
Will families be very reluctant to come forward now knowing that the internet is so anxiously waiting to transmit all the details? I know I would shrink from coming forward and putting my family out there on the chopping block. Which, by the way, stays in cyberspace forever.
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But you have to hope that a bunch of people won't move there now, or some people in Post Falls might wake up, compared to what would have happened if no public thread like this existed. We have to hope!
Will families be very reluctant to come forward now knowing that the internet is so anxiously waiting to transmit all the details? I know I would shrink from coming forward and putting my family out there on the chopping block. Which, by the way, stays in cyberspace forever.
The statement should not be and does not need to be lurid, but must convey:
• the degree to which parental and other warnings were ignored
• reporting students, parents, and teachers were threatened
• lies the priests told
• parents must be involved in disciplinary, corrective, and preventative action.
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But you have to hope that a bunch of people won't move there now, or some people in Post Falls might wake up, compared to what would have happened if no public thread like this existed. We have to hope!
Will families be very reluctant to come forward now knowing that the internet is so anxiously waiting to transmit all the details? I know I would shrink from coming forward and putting my family out there on the chopping block. Which, by the way, stays in cyberspace forever.
The statement should not be and does not need to be lurid, but must convey:
• the degree to which parental and other warnings were ignored
• reporting students, parents, and teachers were threatened
• lies the priests told
• parents must be involved in disciplinary, corrective, and preventative action.
They should probably start with what really happened.
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I think the only statements that are relevant and need to be made are to the police and to the attorneys representing the families. The law will take it from there. Obviously, there are minors involved. If it turns out adults have had an active part then let them be charged and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
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Mark 79 said:
The SSPX must cease its "kill the messenger" approach to conflicts and unwelcome news.
Not to change the subject, but that certainly reminds of what happened to a certain bishop who had the temerity to speak up about the h0Ɩ0h0αx.
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Mark 79 said:
The SSPX must cease its "kill the messenger" approach to conflicts and unwelcome news.
Not to change the subject, but that certainly reminds of what happened to a certain bishop who had the temerity to speak up about the h0Ɩ0h0αx.
Exactly! It is the commissariat's reflexive response to anything and everything unwelcome.
The fish is rotting from the head down.
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Alexandria:
Maybe Hollingsworth can find that out. I have no idea if he is the janitor. If he is, that would explain plenty about the boys at the academy and what is allegedly going down.
The only thing I know is that the Populus family has been there at ICC for decades.
Only one thing I can confirm: The Populus family has been around ICC for a long time. I really didn't know him except to say HI. They got him in a sting operation, which apparently had nothing to do with the ICA affair.
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I think the only statements that are relevant and need to be made are to the police and to the attorneys representing the families. The law will take it from there. Obviously, there are minors involved. If it turns out adults have had an active part then let them be charged and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
I may be in a minority here but I agree with you that while substantiation is needed, it must be balanced with discretion for the sake of the boys involved and affected. Adults don't deserve any privacy when caught committing crimes against children or enabling them in any way, but I think it becomes trickier when dealing with children/young adults among themselves.
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I think the only statements that are relevant and need to be made are to the police and to the attorneys representing the families. The law will take it from there. Obviously, there are minors involved. If it turns out adults have had an active part then let them be charged and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
The US justice system works so well, maybe Hillary will ask Fr. Crane or Fr. Vassal to be her running mate.
If you have no faith in our justice system then how do you propose that laws be enforced?
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I think the only statements that are relevant and need to be made are to the police and to the attorneys representing the families. The law will take it from there. Obviously, there are minors involved. If it turns out adults have had an active part then let them be charged and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
I may be in a minority here but I agree with you that while substantiation is needed, it must be balanced with discretion for the sake of the boys involved and affected. Adults don't deserve any privacy when caught committing crimes against children or enabling them in any way, but I think it becomes trickier when dealing with children/young adults among themselves.
Thank you! I'm a bit surprised by the lack of prudence in people's remarks; not to mention charity for the affected families. It's not helping the situation at all.
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The expose by parents of ICA has everything to do with this thread because that is what will substantiate this entire thread. Unless I missed something, which is very possible, none of this has been substantiated with any kind of public acknowledgements which is why it is so important for the parents to come out with it.
However, I wonder how this can be done without exposing the boys themselves? If the parents put their names to a docuмent, last names would give way to a lot of speculation about which boys are involved. I believe that if this was/is a problem among the boys themselves, then the actions needed to correct them should stay between the parents and priests. I don't believe the parish is OWED an expose by the priests, so I am not 100% convinced that Fr. Vassal is entirely in the wrong by being a bit tight-lipped about it. I am not saying he has acted perfectly nor am I denying that some SSPX priests kill the messengers. He may indeed need to be exposed himself for handling it very badly, I don't know. I just think that for having no concrete information, we as a community are gobbling up whatever is being thrown at us a little too quickly.
There is a line between need-to-know and morbid curiosity and some people seem to be treading it. That's all my comments mean. I think it isn't helping that there are several different topics converging, some relating to the SSPX itself and certain priests and others relating to adult pedophiles and would-be pedophiles, as well as boys and their private sins. People are not separating their thoughts or reactions from one story to the next.
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"... let us strive on to finish the work we are in", which IMO is that of saving our own soul, the souls of those who are in our direct care, and praying for those leaders whom God has placed over us, that they might make wise and prudent decisions while hopefully being inspired by the Holy Ghost?
If by the "leaders whom God has placed over us" you are referring to SSPX District Superiors (e.g. Fr. Wegner) who have no ordinary jurisdiction, then in what manner has God placed them over us?
Or, if you mean the prior of ICC/A Fr. Vassal, in what way has God placed him over the members of CathInfo?
But in any case, how does hiring and/or retaining and/or tolerating the presence of Mr. Sloniker and/or Populus constitute any manner of "wise and prudent decision" even if without regard to inspiration of the Holy Ghost?
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I think the only statements that are relevant and need to be made are to the police and to the attorneys representing the families. The law will take it from there. Obviously, there are minors involved. If it turns out adults have had an active part then let them be charged and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
The US justice system works so well, maybe Hillary will ask Fr. Crane or Fr. Vassal to be her running mate.
If you have no faith in our justice system then how do you propose that laws be enforced?
Even without a television I managed to learn that the justice system in which you have so much confidence declined recently to prosecute a powerful (and satanic) woman though she had been proven to have committed numerous crimes, including crimes that resulted in the death of several people.
Though I was a traditionalist I was an activist against the pederasts in our then Novus Ordo diocese. I am personally aware of proven cases of pederasty that the DA never prosecuted. I personally reported one of those cases to the Asst. D.A. Not even an investigation resulted. The perpetrator in that case so brutally sodomized the victim that the victim needed emergency rectal surgery... and the perpetrator? Having never seen the inside of a police car, much less a jail cell, the perpetrator is living with his catamite in their Hawaiian condo.
I have heard plenty of priest perpetrators and enablers cry for "charity" as the quietist enablers here have. I have plenty of reasons to scoff at your "trust the justice system" shuck. As I told the other enabler, I have seen this rodeo before.
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@Matthew, I can understand frustration. I think everyone in their lives experiences this as some point or another. But this is only due to a lack of resignation to the will of God. Frustration stems from being upset or annoyed about something that we want changed or something that we believe/feel should be done/handled differently.
We must realize that the only control we have in our lives is control of our own thoughts and actions. To be able to change something outside of ourselves, we would have to have dominion over it in some way, be that physical force, financial choices, or intellectual manipulation. And then at that point, we are no longer being docile to the will of God but trying to foist what we believe His will to be on others.
You talk of 'holding out hope' for a 'current sinner' implying that the sinner is the SSPX, but in reality, isn't the Catholic church also guilty of being a sinner that we hold out hope for as well?
Also, there is currently only 1 convicted criminal, Kevin Sloniker, where as Populus is an alleged criminal having not been tried and convicted.
1. You're saying that children being sodomized and victimized, and parents being deceived by their priests, could be the Will of God? His permissive will at best! We are always free to oppose sin and evil, even if God allows men to sin and do evil.
2. So we're some kind of aggressive control freaks borderline going against God's Will, because we have a problem with a sodomy cover-up/scandal at a Traditional Catholic school? That's rich.
3. Actually, the Catholic Church has a greater claim on our charity than the SSPX. The SSPX can be cut down and cast into the fire, so to speak. The Catholic Church holds the promise of Christ, and will last until the end of time. The SSPX is but a branch of that Church, with no jurisdiction or authority over any of us. It is only a lifeboat which we can reject for any reason. We can't reject the Catholic Church in the same manner, unless we want to live in Hell forever.
But of course, for many SSPX-ers, the SSPX *is* the Catholic Church. They mix the two up. If a person leaves the SSPX, they believe the person is leaving the Church (I've actually heard this at my local San Antonio SSPX chapel). I attend the Resistance, and some old parishioners think I've left the Church!
According to court docuмents, detectives asked Eduardo Populus if he had ever "done this before" (referring to sɛҳuąƖ activities with underage girls), to which detectives say Eduardo responded, "The taboo side? Yes."
Detectives told KHQ they had nearly 1,000 people show interest in having sex with children ages 6-13 in online ads, but only 13 of that nearly 1,000 actually showed up to meet. Detectives also added that of those 13, only one was a repeat offender."
Case No: 161026525 - POPULUS, EDUARDO 03/24/1960
Print
Charges COUNT 1:CHILD RAPE-1D-ATTEMPT, COUNT 2:CHILD RAPE-1D-ATTEMPT
Case Type Criminal
Case File Date 07/11/2016
Court Superior Court
Case Status CMPL-07/11/2016
Arraignment Hearing: 07/19/2016
I'd say it's morally certain he's guilty of this crime. No need to give him any benefit of the doubt here.
I tell you what, I'd never get caught in a pedophile sting operation! You know why? I don't pursue young boys/girls in any manner, online or offline! For that matter, I don't worry about DEA drug stings, because I don't buy or use drugs. This isn't one of those "it could happen to anyone" misfortunes, like getting framed. This man showed up thinking he was about to have his way sɛҳuąƖly with a child!
Populus has made the newspapers. His name is already public.
So you are quibbling about semantics. My point was that these men are already public figures; they have already destroyed their own reputations by their crimes (before God and/or men).
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I think the only statements that are relevant and need to be made are to the police and to the attorneys representing the families. The law will take it from there. Obviously, there are minors involved. If it turns out adults have had an active part then let them be charged and prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
The US justice system works so well, maybe Hillary will ask Fr. Crane or Fr. Vassal to be her running mate.
If you have no faith in our justice system then how do you propose that laws be enforced?
Even without a television I managed to learn that the justice system in which you have so much confidence declined recently to prosecute a powerful (and satanic) woman though she had been proven to have committed numerous crimes, including crimes that resulted in the death of several people.
Though I was a traditionalist I was an activist against the pederasts in our then Novus Ordo diocese. I am personally aware of proven cases of pederasty that the DA never prosecuted. I personally reported one of those cases to the Asst. D.A. Not even an investigation resulted. The perpetrator in that case so brutally sodomized the victim that the victim needed emergency rectal surgery... and the perpetrator? Having never seen the inside of a police car, much less a jail cell, the perpetrator is living with his catamite in their Hawaiian condo.
I have heard plenty of priest perpetrators and enablers cry for "charity" as the quietist enablers here have. I have plenty of reasons to scoff at your "trust the justice system" shuck. As I told the other enabler, I have seen this rodeo before.
I didn't claim to trust the justice system either but what do you suggest as alternative?
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Get the facts in writing and put irresistible pressure on the accomplices and enablers. Wide spread publicity. Closed wallets.
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I just read Spokesman article of 7/11/16. I have confirmed from folks in Post Falls that this is the Eduardo Populus, whose family has been in PF for decades. The charge, as reported in the newspaper, is "Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape."
Apparently, Mr. Populus has been a custodian at that sspx parish. For how long I don't know. But it occurs to me that his story may just coincidentally dovetail with the sordid ICA affair. Populus may have had nothing to do with the ICA scandal. It just happened, unfortunately for him and his family, that his arrest for alleged sɛҳuąƖ crimes came out at the peak of revelations about the boys' school. That he should be an employee of the parish school does not necessarily mean that he himself is connected in any way the affair. Any thoughts?
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I just read Spokesman article of 7/11/16. I have confirmed from folks in Post Falls that this is the Eduardo Populus, whose family has been in PF for decades. The charge, as reported in the newspaper, is "Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape."
Apparently, Mr. Populus has been a custodian at that sspx parish. For how long I don't know. But it occurs to me that his story may just coincidentally dovetail with the sordid ICA affair. Populus may have had nothing to do with the ICA scandal. It just happened, unfortunately for him and his family, that his arrest for alleged sɛҳuąƖ crimes came out at the peak of revelations about the boys' school. That he should be an employee of the parish school does not necessarily mean that he himself is connected in any way the affair. Any thoughts?
Sure. It's quite simple.
It's like Joe Smith is undergoing a trial for bank robbery, but during the trial the IRS gets involved because Joe Smith is guilty of tax fraud.
It doesn't make him look very HONEST, now, does it? Finding out that a Bank Robbery defendant is guilty of tax fraud certainly makes him seem a bit more dishonest, and thus more likely to be guilty.
But you're right -- the cases aren't connected -- just part of a pattern.
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I just read Spokesman article of 7/11/16. I have confirmed from folks in Post Falls that this is the Eduardo Populus, whose family has been in PF for decades. The charge, as reported in the newspaper, is "Two counts of first-degree attempted child rape."
Apparently, Mr. Populus has been a custodian at that sspx parish. For how long I don't know. But it occurs to me that his story may just coincidentally dovetail with the sordid ICA affair. Populus may have had nothing to do with the ICA scandal. It just happened, unfortunately for him and his family, that his arrest for alleged sɛҳuąƖ crimes came out at the peak of revelations about the boys' school. That he should be an employee of the parish school does not necessarily mean that he himself is connected in any way the affair. Any thoughts?
Sure. It's quite simple.
It's like Joe Smith is undergoing a trial for bank robbery, but during the trial the IRS gets involved because Joe Smith is guilty of tax fraud.
It doesn't make him look very HONEST, now, does it? Finding out that a Bank Robbery defendant is guilty of tax fraud certainly makes him seem a bit more dishonest, and thus more likely to be guilty.
But you're right -- the cases aren't connected -- just part of a pattern.
Of course it's part of a pattern. A pattern of many, many people indulging in sɛҳuąƖ deviancies. You could go to any parish and find this "pattern" to some degree.
But if you think that Mr Populus, whose deviancy just came to light, just now, as a pedophile interested in little girls is part of a pattern of Fr. Vassal lying to parents about sodomy at the boys school, -- I am sorry to say, this is not your most reasonable day.
To address your previous post, no I don't think the thread should have been withheld and swept under the rug. I just think people should make it clear in their minds and comments that they are working with a LOT of hearsay. A few grains of salt and reserved judgments (until more facts emerge) would not be out of order.
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How about this for a quote:
"... Neither will I condemn thee."
"..Judge Not, and you shall not be judged."
After you finish quoting half-sentences and half verses, what's next, Rabbi? Using gematria to twist the Word of God?
Here is the whole sentence: "Judge not, that you may not be judged, For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matthew 7:1-2
I am content to be judged by the same standard. If I sodomize little boys or conceal the pederasty of others, I submit to the same standard of judgment, Rabbi.
Here is the other whole verse: "Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more." John 8:11
When we hear the priest accomplices' public admission, repentance, and plan for reparation and "sinning no more," the condemnation will end. We are not there yet, Rabbi.
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But you're right -- the cases aren't connected -- just part of a pattern.
Even if all the cases appear to be disconnected, that's only an illusion on one level, because the devil has something to do with every sin man commits.
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Truly... and yet the trolls here pretend the problems are disconnected and so diffuse that the problems might as well be in "China." We have seen exactly this type of dissembling, obfuscation, and denial in the Novus Ordo.
The fish is rotting from the head down.
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I think the toothpaste is already out of the tube.
This is the BEST quote I've ever read. Period.
As far as being 'charitable' in this quest for justice, since this crime is a public one, then the public has a right to know, for the purpose of protecting themselves from the perpetrator(s). If a cover-up is possible, then the public should press for answers. This is the purpose of this thread and it's not wrong. Justice is not at odds with charity, as charity rejoices in the truth, which is what we're after!
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Sloniker was employed by Fr. Vassal at the ICC Camps and altar servers programs, as reported by the Spokan newspaper.
Populus was employed by Fr. Vassal at ICA as the janitor, as reported by a parishioner on the thread.
It seems Fr. Vassal has a poor track record for hiring Church/School staff who work around children.
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I could not agree more...
For Sloniker's sentencing, it seems that we'll have to wait until October 28 (see here (https://www.idcourts.us/repository/partySearch.do)). :judge:
The SSPX already has a terrible track record dealing with sex abuse by its priests in European countries, I would never ever trust them in cases like these. For the sake of truth and justice, gravely negligent priests like Fr Vassal and Fr Crane should be made answerable before the law. There's simply no other way.
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Nothing should surprise you.
This does surprise me. I thought traditional Catholicism was a refuge from sodomy in general. To find out that a large number of supposedly good young boys are engaged is such horrible sins is a great surprise to me. If they were engaged in normal fornication with girls I wouldn't be so surprised, but this? This is the most surprised I have ever been in a very bad way in all my time as a traditional Catholic.
Sodomy has been a practice found among Catholics throughout the history of the Church. Even bishops and priests, perhaps especially bishops and priests have been guilty of it. The Church denounces it as mortally sinful and against nature, which it is, but mortal men will always be tempted to evil and the temptations are the strongest among those consecrated to God, as also they would be for baptized laymen.
We cannot be losing our Faith over this. Many times over the long years, people have told me that they were scandalized at this or that sin that traditional Catholics were involved in to the point of losing their Faith. I admit little patience with this attitude, especially from people who have been around tradition for any real time. It betrays a great deal of naivete in someone's makeup. And that is not the same thing as innocence. They have missed something in their studies of Church history and moral theology. There is no point using these scandals to show how bad the SSPX is, because there has never been a Catholic order or organization that has not been touched by these types of things in the best of times, and we happen to be living in the worst post-Christian times thus far seen. So, we can expect the temptations to be severe among those very few who are still trying to love God the way He taught and save their souls.
The Society must check out the backgrounds of all of those they hire to teach very thoroughly. Action needs to be taken against any priests or teachers who violate the trust of the school authorities and parents. One last point, over the years there have been too many teachers who have had strange ideas about which books to have children read probably stemming from their own worldy education. But what can we expect when the strange works of the likes of Flannery O'Connor, Percy Walker and Maria Valtorta are promoted as fit for youngsters in school or out?
Speaking of Bishop Williamson, he is questioning the latest rosary crusade and drumming up "imaginary" fears as he calls them. I see no way that this rosary intention can be questioned. It is, in fact, what the resistance claimed they wanted for a rosary crusade intention.
To me it seems that the resistance is so anxious to criticize the SSPX that they shamelessly use the same types of things that have happened under tutelage of those former members, currently involved in the resistance, against the Society.
I agree with this quote:
"The involved priests must publicly admit, apologize unreservedly, accept corrective discipline and any due legal punishment. The SSPX must cease its "kill the messenger" approach to conflicts and unwelcome news. As befits parental primacy in guiding the education and safety of their children, with the advice and consent of parents the SSPX must implement procedures to address parental concerns about matters that impact on the education and safety of their children on SSPX premises, institutions, and camps.... etc."
And I suggest that the resistance may wish to put their own houses in order also. It is time for all of us to clean house.
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From the mailbag:
I read [CathInfo], and thought I would update you on the post falls affair. Most everything written so far is fairly correct. I say fairly because many go off course with their bickering and jumping to conclusions.
Correspondence has been received by us parishioners from Fr Wegner informing us of Fr Vassals resignation, with a letter also from Fr Vassal himself confirming that he is leaving, effective today. We will be getting a new pastor, which is good! But I want to say that the school is in no way fixed. I only hope the parents can see that! It is depressing for those of us being honest about the situation, to see what is happening and what is not.
I appreciate very much your helping to spread our terrible news, as it needed to get out to inform people. There will always be people who won't believe it, and I am sorry for them. It is a terrible thing when abuse touches your family, and I hope they never need to experience that.
Please continue to pray for the people of post falls, and especially for our children.
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How about this for a quote:
"... Neither will I condemn thee."
"..Judge Not, and you shall not be judged."
How about " Go and sin no more per Jesus?"
It is duty of every Catholic to admonish sinner.
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from mailbag:
Correspondence has been received by us parishioners from Fr Wegner informing us of Fr Vassals resignation, with a letter also from Fr Vassal himself confirming that he is leaving, effective today. We will be getting a new pastor, which is good!
How was that correspondence received? Was a letter from Wegner reprinted in last Sunday's bulletin? Or, were only certain parishioners informed?
Has Fr. Vassal's letter of resignation been shown to the entire congregation? Did he actually "resign" of his own volition, or was he yanked by Menzingen for re-assignment elsewhere?
Why is getting a new pastor so good? He may be another disappointment. Hopefully, he doesn't have to learn English on the fly.
When we came to ICC in 2005, Fr. Emily was on his way out. He had been driven out, we understood then, by prominent lay members in the chapel,who thought him to be too morally rigid and unbending. Is that really true or not? We don't know to this day.
Emily was replaced by Swiss priest, Fr. Christian Grange, a hail fellow well met. But was he really good for the situation? Was he an effective "pastor?" Well, I guess the jury is still out on that one, at least in our minds.
Of one thing we can be pretty certain. If +Fellay picked the new ICC pastor, count on him being more of a loyal servant (lackey?) to Menzingen, than a shepherd to the people.
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from mailbag: Correspondence has been received by us parishioners from Fr Wegner informing us of Fr Vassals resignation, with a letter also from Fr Vassal himself confirming that he is leaving, effective today. We will be getting a new pastor, which is good!
How was that correspondence received? Was a letter from Wegner reprinted in last Sunday's bulletin? Or, were only certain parishioners informed?
Has Fr. Vassal's letter of resignation been shown to the entire congregation? Did he actually "resign" of his own volition, or was he yanked by Menzingen for re-assignment elsewhere?
Why is getting a new pastor so good? He may be another disappointment. Hopefully, he doesn't have to learn English on the fly.
When we came to ICC in 2005, Fr. Emily was on his way out. He had been driven out, we understood then, by prominent lay members in the chapel,who thought him to be too morally rigid and unbending. Is that really true or not? We don't know to this day.
Emily was replaced by Swiss priest, Fr. Christian Grange, a hail fellow well met. But was he really good for the situation? Was he an effective "pastor?" Well, I guess the jury is still out on that one, at least in our minds.
Of one thing we can be pretty certain. If +Fellay picked the new ICC pastor, count on him being more of a loyal servant (lackey?) to Menzingen, than a shepherd to the people.
A moral priest was driven out for being too moral? That is insane. The people that did such a thing should just go to the local novus ordo where their are no morals and they can do as they please.
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A moral priest was driven out for being too moral? That is insane. The people that did such a thing should just go to the local novus ordo where their are no morals and they can do as they please.
There are others on this forum, perhaps, with better knowledge of the background of the situation at ICC, pre Fr. Grange. They would be better equipped to explain this priest's ordeal then at the hands of a hostile lay faction. All I know is that some were out to get Father, and they succeeded. To my knowledge, Fr. Emily was not transferred. He was ejected.
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I just want to make it painfully clear to everyone on CathInfo that the priests are not suspected or accused of anything, except bad judgement, deception, covering up the situation, and turning a blind eye.
EDIT: If there were another charge or two relatively close to that "list" of 4 charges, then that would be OK. That is to say, charges related to authority, prudent care of souls, justice, malfeasance, and the 8th commandment.
If I'm leaving something out, please PM me and I'll take it on a case-by-case basis.
If any posts have suggested otherwise, please let me know. My finger is hovering over the delete button.
I won't have gratuitous, unlikely or unfounded accusations made about any priest -- even one from the neo-SSPX.
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Matthew:
I just want to make it painfully clear to everyone on CathInfo that the priests are not suspected or accused of anything, except bad judgement, deception, covering up the situation, and turning a blind eye.
So, certain sspx priests may be accused of the following things, without the moderator pushing the 'delete' button:
"bad judgement"
"deception"
"cover-up"
"turning a blind eye"
Comments must not exceed those stated parameters.. Well good. I think, personally, that I can operate safely within those limits. I was not aware that any forum member, to date, had operated outside them.
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Hollingsworth,
If you exclude a couple of posts that I had to delete this morning, then you'd be right!
If there were another charge or two relatively close to that "list" of 4 charges, then that would be OK. That is to say, charges related to authority, prudent care of souls, justice, malfeasance, and the 8th commandment.
If I'm leaving something out, please PM me and I'll take it on a case-by-case basis.
But this isn't open season on Fr. Vassal. And we're not going to take a page from the Freemasonic handbook and cast vague doubt on individuals. No hints, no vague suggestions, no vague character assassination. That's not how Catholics work.
When St. Paul withstood St. Peter to the face, he was specific about what St. Peter was doing wrong. He didn't hint that St. Peter was committing various random sins, or allow people to think whatever they wanted about St. Peter, as long as it was bad.
Let's just say I know media, I know communications, I know human nature, and I know how rumors get started.
I have to keep an eye on the conversation(s) to make sure everything stays within bounds (of Catholic morality). Now just to be clear: I'm not judging anyone: I'm only concerned with the OBJECTIVE consequences of a given statement. So just because I delete someone's post doesn't mean I'm accusing them of evil or mortal sin. It just means that, objectively speaking, I can't allow it for various reasons. Perhaps it was unintentionally misleading or confusing, or would lead most minds to misunderstand the actual situation. Perhaps it was 90% inclined to start a rumor.
Long story short, I insist that we stick to the facts, or as close to the facts as we can grasp from where we're standing.
That is the role of a moderator. And I take my responsibility very seriously.
Because it's a fact that when I allow measured criticism of a given priest, some member(s) will always take it too far. They consider the thread to be tacit permission for "open season" on Fr. Vassal, the SSPX, and/or the Catholic Church. No, no, and no. I am strictly allowing the truth about this scandal to get out, for the good of souls. THAT IS IT.
We're all Trads here, most of us believe that Vatican II was more or less illegitimate, false, and disastrous. But I've had to ban CathInfo members who thought this was a forum for all those against the Catholic Church -- for example, "Old Catholics" who believe the Crisis began with Vatican I. The Old Catholics are officially schismatic. They take our criticism of Vatican II as a cue to rail against the Catholic Church they already hate.
Thus gratuitous accusations, let alone slander, about Fr. Vassal, any other priest, any layman, the SSPX, or the Catholic Church are still as unwelcome as always.
I take criticism of a priest very seriously. And yes, it is to be kept well within the bounds of the SPECIAL EXCEPTION/PERMISSION I have given to allow this thread.
CathInfo is not "devil central", "rumor central" or "apostate central". That's what our enemies would like everyone to think. But it couldn't be further from the truth.
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I have been told second-hand that the Society vigorously discourages home schooling but I have no first-hand knowledge of that.
It's not hard to imagine that when living near a Trad school, there is going to be pressure to enroll your children. Schools can offer more -- better teachers, more classes and activities, etc -- the more students they have. All of the families, teachers, and administration of the school see those who won't enroll their children as obstacles to their own success. It would be difficult for me to imagine it otherwise.
However, there are many SSPX locations without a school and I really doubt that homeschooling is discouraged in those locations. I've never seen it here.
Here in Phoenix there doesn't seem to be any push to increase enrollment in the academy.
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I have been told second-hand that the Society vigorously discourages home schooling but I have no first-hand knowledge of that.
It's not hard to imagine that when living near a Trad school, there is going to be pressure to enroll your children. Schools can offer more -- better teachers, more classes and activities, etc -- the more students they have. All of the families, teachers, and administration of the school see those who won't enroll their children as obstacles to their own success. It would be difficult for me to imagine it otherwise.
However, there are many SSPX locations without a school and I really doubt that homeschooling is discouraged in those locations. I've never seen it here.
Here in Phoenix there doesn't seem to be any push to increase enrollment in the academy.
You must have missed the sermon last week:
To rub salt in our wounds, Fr. Crane's sermon in Phoenix today was about how parents should be putting their children in Society schools. What gall! Fr. Crane is among the ones who "allegedly" turned a deaf ear when students and parents warned him about the "camp counselor" pederast Sloniker.
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I just want to make it painfully clear to everyone on CathInfo that the priests are not suspected or accused of anything, except bad judgement, deception, covering up the situation, and turning a blind eye.
What should be discussed (has it even been here?) is how we think the situation could've been handled better. What should've been done instead of what was done? There's some talk here about mistrust in the U.S. justice system, so why would not immediately contacting the police be imprudent, negligent, or covering-up? Yes, withholding information could be a sin (e.g., negligence), but it's not lying; it could also be prudent.
Also, didn't the SSPX handle the Fr. Urrotigoity scandal to the best of its ability and knowledge? If not, how should've that one been handled?
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Here in Phoenix there doesn't seem to be any push to increase enrollment in the academy.
Did you miss Mass last Sunday??
Fr. Crane basically gave a thinly-veiled threat to those who do not have their kids in the school by reminding them that Canon Law says Catholic children are NOT to be enrolled in mixed-faith or secualr schools. He even went one step further and reminded everyone that priests used to withhold the Sacraments from parents who did not enroll their kids in the school.
I have a friend in the parish whose kids are not in the school and she described it as being perceived (by her) as a threat.
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From the mailbag:
I read [CathInfo], and thought I would update you on the post falls affair. Most everything written so far is fairly correct. I say fairly because many go off course with their bickering and jumping to conclusions.
Correspondence has been received by us parishioners from Fr Wegner informing us of Fr Vassals resignation, with a letter also from Fr Vassal himself confirming that he is leaving, effective today. We will be getting a new pastor, which is good! But I want to say that the school is in no way fixed. I only hope the parents can see that! It is depressing for those of us being honest about the situation, to see what is happening and what is not.
I appreciate very much your helping to spread our terrible news, as it needed to get out to inform people. There will always be people who won't believe it, and I am sorry for them. It is a terrible thing when abuse touches your family, and I hope they never need to experience that.
Please continue to pray for the people of post falls, and especially for our children.
My sympathy for the new pastor.
Imagine being assigned to a parish where a scandal like this is raging like a plague.
We ought to pray for him to St. Damien of Moloka'i. He knew what it's like to work as a priest in a leper colony.
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I just want to make it painfully clear to everyone on CathInfo that the priests are not suspected or accused of anything, except bad judgement, deception, covering up the situation, and turning a blind eye.
What should be discussed (has it even been here?) is how we think the situation could've been handled better. What should've been done instead of what was done? There's some talk here about mistrust in the U.S. justice system, so why would not immediately contacting the police be imprudent, negligent, or covering-up? Yes, withholding information could be a sin (e.g., negligence), but it's not lying; it could also be prudent.
Also, didn't the SSPX handle the Fr. Urrotigoity scandal to the best of its ability and knowledge? If not, how should've that one been handled?
I have stated that the advice and consent of parents is essential in matters that concern our children, hence:
(1) No more "kill the messenger";
(2) No more "Let's talk about that privately later" at parent-teacher meetings;
(3) No more "Read the manual";
(4) No more "mushroom treatment";
(5) No more dictates from distant martinets;
(6) No more plays by infamous pederasts like Oscar Wilde;
(7) No more plays that pretend Jєωs are jovial innocent victims;
(8) No more inappropriate "artistic" role models;
(9) No more teaching against the Magisterium;
(10) No more tolerance of bad behavior (bullying, ridiculing other children, solitary or group sex, etc.);
(11) No more enablers;
(12) No more concealment of crimes against children;
(13) No more lying to parents;
(14) No more overnighters for altar boys;
(15) etc.
The facade of two-way communication at the mandatory parent-teacher meetings needs to end. There must be real two-way communication that encourages and responds appropriately to criticism.
It is illegal for health and school personnel to fail to notify law enforcement (such as it is) of sɛҳuąƖ abuse.
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Here in Phoenix there doesn't seem to be any push to increase enrollment in the academy.
Did you miss Mass last Sunday??
Fr. Crane basically gave a thinly-veiled threat to those who do not have their kids in the school by reminding them that Canon Law says Catholic children are NOT to be enrolled in mixed-faith or secualr schools. He even went one step further and reminded everyone that priests used to withhold the Sacraments from parents who did not enroll their kids in the school.
I have a friend in the parish whose kids are not in the school and she described it as being perceived (by her) as a threat.
Fr. Crane has reason to anticipate a financially crippling exodus from the school, his continued presence as Sloniker's "alleged" enabler. He needs to go where there are NO children... period.
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Pilar:
Sodomy has been a practice found among Catholics throughout the history of the Church. Even bishops and priests, perhaps especially bishops and priests have been guilty of it. The Church denounces it as mortally sinful and against nature, which it is, but mortal men will always be tempted to evil and the temptations are the strongest among those consecrated to God, as also they would be for baptized laymen.
Even bishops and priests, perhaps especially bishops and priests have been guilty of it.
This seemed a bit one-sided to me. All sins have been "found" among Catholics.
I'm not sure that it has been anymore present there than anywhere else on the planet. Maybe recently it has shown an uptick because of feeble attempts to deal with it correctly and firmly. The modern media refuse to discuss it in regards to public teachers, ministers, and rabbis who are also well distinguished in these acts.
Even bishops and priests, perhaps especially bishops and priests have been guilty of it.
And your proof of this is? Yes, and so have stable boys and royal families.
We cannot be losing our Faith over this.
Well, I hope, no one was planning on doing that. Losing one's faith in the SSPX--that's a different story.
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from mailbag: Correspondence has been received by us parishioners from Fr Wegner informing us of Fr Vassals resignation, with a letter also from Fr Vassal himself confirming that he is leaving, effective today. We will be getting a new pastor, which is good!
How was that correspondence received? Was a letter from Wegner reprinted in last Sunday's bulletin? Or, were only certain parishioners informed?
Has Fr. Vassal's letter of resignation been shown to the entire congregation? Did he actually "resign" of his own volition, or was he yanked by Menzingen for re-assignment elsewhere?
Why is getting a new pastor so good? He may be another disappointment. Hopefully, he doesn't have to learn English on the fly.
When we came to ICC in 2005, Fr. Emily was on his way out. He had been driven out, we understood then, by prominent lay members in the chapel,who thought him to be too morally rigid and unbending. Is that really true or not? We don't know to this day.
Emily was replaced by Swiss priest, Fr. Christian Grange, a hail fellow well met. But was he really good for the situation? Was he an effective "pastor?" Well, I guess the jury is still out on that one, at least in our minds.
Of one thing we can be pretty certain. If +Fellay picked the new ICC pastor, count on him being more of a loyal servant (lackey?) to Menzingen, than a shepherd to the people.
I was there, and I loved Fr. Emily, and it is true that he was driven out. It was a long time ago, and I do not remember any longer the exact details. At the time, it was more of the same ICC brood of vipers shenanigans.
Fr. Emily was driven out.
Fr. Leo Boyle was driven out.
Fr. Doran was driven out.
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I just heard recently that what drove Fr. Emily out was a conflict with the mother superior of St. Dominic School, and I guess he wound up on the losing end of that.
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Right before I read your post, I seemed to remember it had something to do with the Dominicans. Quite a demanding group of women.
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I get the impression that these priests fail to realize fully the sacrifices entailed by the majority of the people sitting in their pews and financing their lifestyle. Very few are native to the area. Most are relo's from California and a few other areas throughout the country.
They came to Post Falls for two reasons: for the faith and to insure that their children get a solid Catholic education.
They didn't bargain on finding lax morals in their fellow parishioners and an unsafe moral atmosphere in the schools.
Many families had to file bankruptcy and go on public assistance in order to stay in Post Falls.
They didn't come to Post Falls at tremendous sacrifice so they could find more of what they had left behind.
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There are at least three letters, I understand, which were disseminated locally at ICC, and available to all the faithful there. But thus far they have not been gotten online. We have a friend in the area who promises to forward some,or all of them today Let's see if this friend makes good on his promise.
One of these is a letter of resignation from Fr. Paul Vassal. I am persuaded that it should be available online, although he and his superiors might disagree.
Another letter, or docuмent, speaking to the sordid issue, was published by the ICC Heart of Mary Guild. Again, the Guild might object to its being disseminated for all to read. Nevertheless, I hope that either our friend or someone else will agree to make it public online.
A third letter, (and there may be more), has been published, also for local parish consumption. Its authors are members of the mens' Holy Name Society. This letter, we understand, comes to the Society's defense, and, reportedly, would brand people like myself as "hatemongers." That's a letter I would really like to see get online.
Again, let us hope that my friend comes through, or that one of you, with similar access to these docuмents, will agree to publish them for the entire cyber world to read.
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Right before I read your post, I seemed to remember it had something to do with the Dominicans. Quite a demanding group of women.
There are two FORMER Dominican nuns known locally as "The Money Sisters" because of their vast real estate empire. They own roughly 20 properties in the area, renting primarily to SSPX lay people from what I've heard. They employed Ed Populus to do maintenance on their units so there's another weird association. It's a very insular community.
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Dear Alexandria,
I think that the mistake that people are making is this They didn't bargain on finding lax morals in their fellow parishioners and an unsafe moral atmosphere in the schools.
Why would these chapels have parishioners that are any different than the Catholic parishes that existed pre-Vatican 2? Has human nature changed? I think to expect a parish chapel to be filled with saints is probably foolish. I wish a Catholic chapel/ parish existed with Catholics that are like those that lived in the 1st century, but to expect that in the sewer of the modern world is problematic. I guess the question would be is having regular access to the sacraments without anything else worth moving a family across the country without financial prospects? As a single person, I wish I had the courage to move to a place like Mount St. Mary's, but I would have no family in the area, an established position, or financial help should I get into difficulty. Does God desire that from me?
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Right before I read your post, I seemed to remember it had something to do with the Dominicans. Quite a demanding group of women.
There are two FORMER Dominican nuns known locally as "The Money Sisters" because of their vast real estate empire. They own roughly 20 properties in the area, renting primarily to SSPX lay people from what I've heard. They employed Ed Populus to do maintenance on their units so there's another weird association. It's a very insular community.
Those two were Dominicans from way back. They left when their community went N.O. One of them died last winter.
Nothing weird about hiring Ed P. I don't think anyone could have guessed what the news just announced about him.
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Even in the decadent public schools of my French country, I have never heard that eight boys commited the crime of sodomy. I have heard very ugly things, but not that...
Unbelievable...
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Amakusa:
Even in the decadent public schools of my French country, I have never heard that eight boys commited the crime of sodomy. I have heard very ugly things, but not that...
Unbelievable....
ICA is not a public school in France. ICA is not a public school in the U.S. ICA is not even a religious school run by a Novus Ordo diocese in any part of the world.
No! I'll tell you what ICA is. It is a traditional Catholic school run by the SSPX, whose exalted leader reminds us that his organization acts to "remedy the universal disorder." Not your garden variety apostolate, you understand, but one which, apparently, can ensure the "salvation of all who cooperate in it."
No, by golly! This is a society "determined to keep doctrinal, theological and social rectitude."
So I would repeat, yes..Unbelievable in spades! Why, the sspx can not even ensure the social rectitude of children in one of its schools, whose parents have committed them to her charge. This Society can not even manage to keep these children safe from lurking sɛҳuąƖ predators and perverts.
Wow! What an outfit!! Unbelievable? I'll say.
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Well, there have been sɛҳuąƖ scandals in the SSPX too in my country. Recently an association specifically dedicated to denouncing sɛҳuąƖ abuses among the religious communities has published a report mentioning sɛҳuąƖs abuses by some SSPX priests.
In those cases, the SSPX had not a better behaviour than in your country. Actually, she does the same thing as the Novus Ordites: the sɛҳuąƖ abusers are transfered, but not charged with their crimes...
The SSPX wants to convey the image that we are the bests, that everybody is perfect among us, and thus, there are no pedophiles among the priests or the brethren!
However, I had never heard before that eight boys had willingly commited sodomy in a school... They might have been corrupted by a pervert, and then they inflicted the same abuses on other boys. Such thing happens among the sodomites: some of them have been corrupted in their youth.
Once again, the SSPX is to blame not for the crimes themselves, but for her carelessness when faced with the evil.
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It is illegal for health and school personnel to fail to notify law enforcement (such as it is) of sɛҳuąƖ abuse.
So there was violation of civil law(s)? If the laws are just, that is a mortal sin, isn't it?
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You must have missed the sermon last week:
To rub salt in our wounds, Fr. Crane's sermon in Phoenix today was about how parents should be putting their children in Society schools. What gall! Fr. Crane is among the ones who "allegedly" turned a deaf ear when students and parents warned him about the "camp counselor" pederast Sloniker.
Yes, I heard the sermon. When is preaching Catholic truths ever "gall"? When have you heard a priest from the pulpit quoting Pope Pius XI's Divini Illius Magistri (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121929_divini-illius-magistri_en.html) or the 1917 Canon 1374 (https://books.google.com/books?id=2XbtF6Y21LUC&pg=PA462) regarding Christian education? What was Fr. Crane supposed to do? Give up preaching Catholic truths because of his or others' sins?Did you miss Mass last Sunday??
Fr. Crane basically gave a thinly-veiled threat to those who do not have their kids in the school by reminding them that Canon Law says Catholic children are NOT to be enrolled in mixed-faith or secualr schools.
I can see how some here interpret his sermon as a marketing ploy to up enrollment in SSPX schools, esp. since he didn't mention homeschooling (that I remember). Although he should've mentioned or quoted Divini (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_31121929_divini-illius-magistri_en.html) §73 on "family education" (home education / homeschooling), he didn't exclude home education.He even went one step further and reminded everyone that priests used to withhold the Sacraments from parents who did not enroll their kids in the school.
Probably because such parents are public sinners
If it is public information that their children attend secular or non-Catholic schools, then the parents are public sinners, giving scandal to others, too. Since the matter (education of children) is very grave, they sin mortally. They are "manifestly infamous" and "are to be barred from the Eucharist" (1917 Canon 855 (https://books.google.com/books?id=2XbtF6Y21LUC&pg=PA305) / 1983 Canon 915).
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It is illegal for health and school personnel to fail to notify law enforcement (such as it is) of sɛҳuąƖ abuse.
This is true. This law of notification applies within the secular public school system. Is it not applicable, perhaps even more so, as it touches private schools? I would not be surprised to learn later that Fr. Vassal and other sspx priests, as well as even certain ICA school personnel knew about this sɛҳuąƖ activity among ICA students, but failed to report it to the proper authorities earlier
I'm afraid that what's happening is a massive cover-up by the sspx, and it will probably be successful. All of these events will be lost in the mists of obfuscation and the passage of time. I have called for letters and other docuмents related to the scandal to be published universally online. Those letters and docuмents are thus far not forthcoming.
It looks to me that ICC will go back to business as usual. The present scandal will subside, as have others. A new "pastor" will come in. He'll apply some bandaids and prescribe a few nostrums. The sheeple will settle back in to their daily Mass centered routine, and the temporarily roiled surface of ICC's fetid waters will re-assume a smooth glassy appearance.
BTW, we have just learned that Fr. Vassal's letter of resignation was not apparently distributed to the faithful. How, then, can we expect that a copy of it might be reprinted on Cathinfo?
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This law of notification applies within the secular public school system. Is it not applicable, perhaps even more so, as it touches private schools? I would not be surprised to learn later that Fr. Vassal and other sspx priests, as well as even certain ICA school personnel knew about this sɛҳuąƖ activity among ICA students, but failed to report it to the proper authorities earlier
Here's Idaho's mandatory reporting laws (p. 20 of this (https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/manda.pdf)):Idaho
Professionals Required to Report
Idaho Code § 16-1605
The following persons are required to report:
• Physicians, residents on hospital staffs, interns, nurses, or coroners
• Teachers or daycare personnel
• Social workers or law enforcement personnel
• Other persons
Reporting by Other Persons
Idaho Code § 16-1605
Any person who has reason to believe that a child has been abused, abandoned, or neglected is required to report.
Institutional Responsibility to Report
Idaho Code § 16-1605
When the attendance of a physician, resident, intern, nurse, daycare worker, or social worker is pursuant to the performance of services as a member of the staff of a hospital or similar institution, he or she shall notify the person in charge of the institution, or his or her designated delegate, who shall make the necessary reports.
Standards for Making a Report
Idaho Code § 16-1605
A report is required when:
• A person has reason to believe that a child has been abused, abandoned, or neglected.
• A person observes a child being subjected to conditions or circuмstances that would reasonably result in abuse, abandonment, or neglect.
Privileged Communications
Idaho Code §§ 16-1605; 16-1606
Any privilege between a husband and wife and any professional and client, except for the clergy-penitent or attorney-client privilege, shall not be grounds for failure to report.
Any privilege between husband and wife, or between any professional person—except the lawyer-client privilege and including, but not limited to, physicians, counselors, hospitals, clinics, daycare centers, and schools—and their clients shall not be grounds for excluding evidence at any proceeding regarding the abuse, abandonment, or neglect of the child or the cause thereof.
Inclusion of Reporter’s Name in Report
The reporter is not specifically required by statute to provide his or her name in the report.
Disclosure of Reporter Identity
This issue is not addressed in the statutes reviewed.
Other states' laws, e.g. Connecticut's, require mandatory reporting even if there is simply a suspicion "based on factors, including, but not limited to…statements by a child, victim". Idaho's requires simply a "reason to believe."
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Here's the full Idaho §16-1605 statute (https://www.legislature.idaho.gov/idstat/Title16/T16CH16SECT16-1605.htm).
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Yes, I was going to say, the list of priests who haven't been driven out or torn to shreds among power struggles in Post Falls would be shorter.
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Mandatory reporting and what is considered abuse depends on the ages of the boys. If they are the same ages or roughly so, it is not considered abuse and does not fall under mandatory reporting. Those laws refer mostly to older vs younger, not same age. In some places age 14-20 is considered close enough not to warrant mandatory reporting.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a serious problem if this rumor is true. It just means that the ages of the boys is not black and white as some would make it out to be and warrants a lot more confidentiality.
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Mandatory reporting and what is considered abuse depends on the ages of the boys. If they are the same ages or roughly so, it is not considered abuse and does not fall under mandatory reporting. Those laws refer mostly to older vs younger, not same age. In some places age 14-20 is considered close enough not to warrant mandatory reporting.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a serious problem if this rumor is true. It just means that the ages of the boys is not black and white as some would make it out to be and warrants a lot more confidentiality.
The penalties for committing crimes against children may vary depending on the age of the perpetrator(s) and victim(s), but the mandatory reporting requirement does not exempt reporting of sɛҳuąƖ abuse of any minor.
While Fr. Crane decided to ignore the child's report of being whipped naked by Sloniker, it is unlikely that any jury would excuse Fr. Crane for his failure to report... IF Fr. Crane can be charged and brought in front of a jury.
Since the SSPX is loathe to tell the whole truth of their own volition, the truth must be wrung from them by strong measures. Unless the accomplices are brought to justice now, the SSPX will never prioritize the safety of our children.
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Mark, the posts above mine are discussing mandatory reporting and Fr. Vassal and the alleged sɛҳuąƖ activity among the boys at the school.
Obviously Sloniker is older, that action was certainly abuse, and my post does not apply to him or any adult who knew what he was doing.
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Mark: This is one of a very short list of things that will cure the SSPX.
At this point, I fear, nothing will cure the SSPX. Our Lady was reported to have told +Fellay, that unless he made the 2nd Rosary Crusade in 2008 for the Consecration of Russia, The SSPX was over. It was toast. He failed to obey Our Lady in 2006, though the Consecration had been Her desired intention then. The Holy Mother, apparently then, overlooked that failure, but warned him straitly concerning Her single intention for the 2nd Crusade. As we know, +F ignored Her request, and made the lifting of the so-called excommunications the theme for that RC. The rest is history. The sspx is toast. Folks had better leave the fallen apostolate while they still can.
I agree with you. The SSPX is toast.
Gamaliel was right: Acts 5:38-39
You seem to have a problem with the SSPX, not the neo-SSPX.
So I vehemently disagree with you.
The SSPX was the work of God. It was good and holy. But like the Catholic Church itself, it was made up of men and so it has many bad elements in it.
If God could allow the Catholic Church itself to become what it is today -- we're talking about the Bride of Christ which has the solemn promise of Christ that "the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". How much easier would it be for a good organization like the SSPX to corrupt and fall?
That is what happened. It wasn't rotten from the outset. +ABL was a saint. His work (the SSPX) was the most Catholic group around. It was a beautiful, good organization blessed by God and bore many, many good fruits.
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Matthew:
That is what happened. It wasn't rotten from the outset. +ABL was a saint. His work (the SSPX) was the most Catholic group around. It was a beautiful, good organization blessed by God and bore many, many good fruits.
I hope that Matthew is not suggesting that I, Alexandria, and a few others are suggesting that the SSPX under ABL was not a good thing. It bore, as Matthew says, many good fruits.
But the SSPX that we've been vocal about is +Fellay's organization, not ABL',s. I think that it has been slowly,(maybe rapidly) rotting from the head down. My wife and I came aboard in @ 2001,02. Believe me, it was all downhill for us. The public vilification of Bp. Williamson and his final expulsion, the zionist, Krah, Rothchild connections, the vigorous overtures to Rome, still ongoing, the GREC ties, the 2012 General Chapter, the unceremonious ejection of numbersof good and worthy priests from the Society- you name it. All that worked together to force us out. We never knew an SSPX of which Matthew waxes so nostalgic.
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Well, there have been sɛҳuąƖ scandals in the SSPX too in my country. Recently an association specifically dedicated to denouncing sɛҳuąƖ abuses among the religious communities has published a report mentioning sɛҳuąƖs abuses by some SSPX priests.
I assume you're referring to the AVREF black book. This is an interesting docuмent in many respects and it deals with more than just sex abuse. I read it with some help from Google Translate and found it instructive and well docuмented. My understanding is that Bishop Fellay is too busy managing investment funds to deal with reports of sex abuse by his priests in France and elsewhere :shocked:
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Matthew: That is what happened. It wasn't rotten from the outset. +ABL was a saint. His work (the SSPX) was the most Catholic group around. It was a beautiful, good organization blessed by God and bore many, many good fruits.
I hope that Matthew is not suggesting that I, Alexandria, and a few others are suggesting that the SSPX under ABL was not a good thing. It bore, as Matthew says, many good fruits.
But the SSPX that we've been vocal about is +Fellay's organization, not ABL',s. I think that it has been slowly,(maybe rapidly) rotting from the head down. My wife and I came aboard in @ 2001,02. Believe me, it was all downhill for us. The public vilification of Bp. Williamson and his final expulsion, the zionist, Krah, Rothchild connections, the vigorous overtures to Rome, still ongoing, the GREC ties, the 2012 General Chapter, the unceremonious ejection of numbersof good and worthy priests from the Society- you name it. All that worked together to force us out. We never knew an SSPX of which Matthew waxes so nostalgic.
Well, maybe that is why you have no real love for the SSPX. It took you until 2001 to find out there was a problem in the Church and where the remedy was? I have always wondered about the level of education that most of the people on these forums have. Especially and primarily regarding the Faith and history of the Church. I see incredible amounts of naivete. People looking for a holy card Church and holy card priests.
Many of us have been "with" the SSPX since the beginning. The priests of the SSPX have taught us our catechism, helped prepare us to be good parents, baptized our children, Society schools have educated them, married them, ordained them and even buried them. We have known them well and we know how they live. Most, by far, are dedicated, holy and stalwart. They do what they do for love of God.
There has never been a time and there never will be a time for the Church Militant, when there are not scandals of all types. It never meant that the faithful were exempt from attending Mass and receiving the Sacraments and it doesn't mean that now. Both sides of the resistance are rife with scandals and problems so according to this forum, there is nowhere to go, leaving the Faithful in a pretty pickle.
Matthew is right when he said that the SSPX was founded by a saint and did saintly work for decades. Just because we have concerns about the current head and his direction it doesn't mean that the SSPX cannot do saintly work now. Most of our priests are men of good will, judging by their constant sacrifices and the graces that flow to us from their hands.
All of those who love to criticize the Society apparently have never really loved her or her vocation. Her Masses are still good Masses, Sacraments still the same, sermons are orthodox and in this world, that is the most we can hope for, and more than we deserve. Scandals arise as they must, Matthew 18:7, and they will be dealt with. How they are dealt with is up to those who actually know all of the information, not we here who know nothing but gossip and rumor.
We need to pray more rosaries and spend less time on these forums. I don't say they have no place, but they seem to feed hysteria more often than not. Fr. Crane is a good priest and he was a cop for years. He knows youth in a way few do. He was tough with the youth in his sermons when he was with us and if he has made any mistakes dealing with this, and I doubt that he has, they were undoubtedly honest ones. When scandals of this type occur anywhere, in institutions or families, the best course is to take care of them quietly so as not to spread the scandal. Keeping it quiet doesn't mean that nothing is being done. I daresay that in our families, if something untoward happens, as it always will since we are sinners, we don't want it discussed by others or spoken of in public! God forbid!
Too, too many are anxious for the Society to be destroyed and it is obvious by the things they write. Lots of little axes to grind, no doubt.
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I'll repeat:
There are, reportedly, the following:
1) A letter of resignation from Fr. Vassal- to date, no one has been able to secure a copy of that letter
2) There is probably a letter(s) from involved parents, or at least some written or recorded statements- Thus far, none of those statements has been made available.
3) There is a purported written statement or letter from the ICC Holy Name Society- That statement has, apparently, been suppressed.
4) Reportedly, the ICC Heart of Mary Guild has also released some kind of letter or statement- We haven't seen it.
From our inquiries, it appears, a relatively few, even from among the ICC faithful at ICC, are privy to these docuмents.
Are there appearances of a massive cover-up? I would have to conclude that there well may be.
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No amount of Tridentine Latin Masses, rosaries, or other sacrifices will ever restore the virginity of those boys. They will be unfit for marriage and unfit for the priesthood. Sad. This is why I homeschool.
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No amount of Tridentine Latin Masses, rosaries, or other sacrifices will ever restore the virginity of those boys. They will be unfit for marriage and unfit for the priesthood. Sad. This is why I homeschool.
I hope that they can recover and live normal lives and not be sodomites for life, though I wouldn't want them to be priests.
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Well, maybe that is why you have no real love for the SSPX. It took you until 2001 to find out there was a problem in the Church and where the remedy was? I have always wondered about the level of education that most of the people on these forums have. Especially and primarily regarding the Faith and history of the Church. I see incredible amounts of naivete. People looking for a holy card Church and holy card priests.
Many of us have been "with" the SSPX since the beginning. The priests of the SSPX have taught us our catechism, helped prepare us to be good parents, baptized our children, Society schools have educated them, married them, ordained them and even buried them. We have known them well and we know how they live. Most, by far, are dedicated, holy and stalwart. They do what they do for love of God.
There has never been a time and there never will be a time for the Church Militant, when there are not scandals of all types. It never meant that the faithful were exempt from attending Mass and receiving the Sacraments and it doesn't mean that now. Both sides of the resistance are rife with scandals and problems so according to this forum, there is nowhere to go, leaving the Faithful in a pretty pickle.
Matthew is right when he said that the SSPX was founded by a saint and did saintly work for decades. Just because we have concerns about the current head and his direction it doesn't mean that the SSPX cannot do saintly work now. Most of our priests are men of good will, judging by their constant sacrifices and the graces that flow to us from their hands.
All of those who love to criticize the Society apparently have never really loved her or her vocation. Her Masses are still good Masses, Sacraments still the same, sermons are orthodox and in this world, that is the most we can hope for, and more than we deserve. Scandals arise as they must, Matthew 18:7, and they will be dealt with. How they are dealt with is up to those who actually know all of the information, not we here who know nothing but gossip and rumor.
We need to pray more rosaries and spend less time on these forums. I don't say they have no place, but they seem to feed hysteria more often than not. Fr. Crane is a good priest and he was a cop for years. He knows youth in a way few do. He was tough with the youth in his sermons when he was with us and if he has made any mistakes dealing with this, and I doubt that he has, they were undoubtedly honest ones. When scandals of this type occur anywhere, in institutions or families, the best course is to take care of them quietly so as not to spread the scandal. Keeping it quiet doesn't mean that nothing is being done. I daresay that in our families, if something untoward happens, as it always will since we are sinners, we don't want it discussed by others or spoken of in public! God forbid!
Too, too many are anxious for the Society to be destroyed and it is obvious by the things they write. Lots of little axes to grind, no doubt.
I agree with you for the most part. CI is an important resource but I have noticed it has been attracting a lot of people who have no lost love for the SSPX and are dying to tear it down and criticize every little thing. It's lending CI an unfortunate acrimonious tone. There used to be just a few who were constantly nit-picking the SSPX and the priests but now it's "everybody" (or it feels like everybody sometimes.) But while I notice the problem, I unfortunately do not have a solution to offer. I think Matthew has done a good job of clarifying that it isn't open season on the SSPX and the priests, but the undercurrents are still there.
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...blah, blah, blah
I agree with you for the most part. CI is an important resource but I have noticed it has been attracting a lot of people who have no lost love for the SSPX and are dying to tear it down and criticize every little thing. It's lending CI an unfortunate acrimonious tone. There used to be just a few who were constantly nit-picking the SSPX and the priests but now it's "everybody" (or it feels like everybody sometimes.) But while I notice the problem, I unfortunately do not have a solution to offer. I think Matthew has done a good job of clarifying that it isn't open season on the SSPX and the priests, but the undercurrents are still there.
Oh puh-leez... as if a series of FOUR RECENT CHILD SEX SCANDALS at least two or three of which were enabled by MALFEASANT SSPX PRIESTS is "picking nits"? Maybe if you or your kids were whipped and buggered you'd have a different take on "nits."
Neither does Hollingsworth's lengthy list involve "nits."
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No amount of Tridentine Latin Masses, rosaries, or other sacrifices will ever restore the virginity of those boys.
Don't you mean "innocence," not "virginity"?
Also, St. Peter Damian, author of the famous Book of Gomorrah (http://iteadthomam.com/bookofgomorrah), argued that God can restore virginity (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/peter-damian/#4).
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No amount of Tridentine Latin Masses, rosaries, or other sacrifices will ever restore the virginity of those boys. They will be unfit for marriage and unfit for the priesthood. Sad. This is why I homeschool.
Of those that go on to lead normal lives, how would they be unfit for marriage and the priesthood? Just curious.
Perhaps it's the same reason the 1917 Code (canon 984 1.°) (https://books.google.com/books?id=2XbtF6Y21LUC&pg=PA341) considers bastards "irregular by defect" for obtaining Holy Orders.
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Mark it is malicious of you to immediately take my post to mean that child sex abuse is considered picking nits. That's all that post boiled down to for you? I am really tired of your attitude and constant search for a fight. For someone who is so ready to point out others' tactics, you sure have a lot of unsavory ones of your own. Put me on ignore, please. Your responses never address what I've actually said anyway. You might as well skip them.
You complained about "nit picking" about "little" things in a thread explicitly about the sodomy scandal, a thread that also focuses on 3 additional sex scandals involving children. Now you want us to believe you meant to exclude the main thread topic—the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of children and the malfeasance of SSPX priests that worsened the problem. Okaaaay.... what explicitly are those "little" "nit picking" things have you so wrapped around the axle?
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Well, maybe that is why you have no real love for the SSPX. It took you until 2001 to find out there was a problem in the Church and where the remedy was? I have always wondered about the level of education that most of the people on these forums have. Especially and primarily regarding the Faith and history of the Church. I see incredible amounts of naivete. People looking for a holy card Church and holy card priests.
Many of us have been "with" the SSPX since the beginning. The priests of the SSPX have taught us our catechism, helped prepare us to be good parents, baptized our children, Society schools have educated them, married them, ordained them and even buried them. We have known them well and we know how they live. Most, by far, are dedicated, holy and stalwart. They do what they do for love of God.
There has never been a time and there never will be a time for the Church Militant, when there are not scandals of all types. It never meant that the faithful were exempt from attending Mass and receiving the Sacraments and it doesn't mean that now. Both sides of the resistance are rife with scandals and problems so according to this forum, there is nowhere to go, leaving the Faithful in a pretty pickle.
Matthew is right when he said that the SSPX was founded by a saint and did saintly work for decades. Just because we have concerns about the current head and his direction it doesn't mean that the SSPX cannot do saintly work now. Most of our priests are men of good will, judging by their constant sacrifices and the graces that flow to us from their hands.
All of those who love to criticize the Society apparently have never really loved her or her vocation. Her Masses are still good Masses, Sacraments still the same, sermons are orthodox and in this world, that is the most we can hope for, and more than we deserve. Scandals arise as they must, Matthew 18:7, and they will be dealt with. How they are dealt with is up to those who actually know all of the information, not we here who know nothing but gossip and rumor.
We need to pray more rosaries and spend less time on these forums. I don't say they have no place, but they seem to feed hysteria more often than not. Fr. Crane is a good priest and he was a cop for years. He knows youth in a way few do. He was tough with the youth in his sermons when he was with us and if he has made any mistakes dealing with this, and I doubt that he has, they were undoubtedly honest ones. When scandals of this type occur anywhere, in institutions or families, the best course is to take care of them quietly so as not to spread the scandal. Keeping it quiet doesn't mean that nothing is being done. I daresay that in our families, if something untoward happens, as it always will since we are sinners, we don't want it discussed by others or spoken of in public! God forbid!
Too, too many are anxious for the Society to be destroyed and it is obvious by the things they write. Lots of little axes to grind, no doubt.
I agree with you for the most part. CI is an important resource but I have noticed it has been attracting a lot of people who have no lost love for the SSPX and are dying to tear it down and criticize every little thing. It's lending CI an unfortunate acrimonious tone. There used to be just a few who were constantly nit-picking the SSPX and the priests but now it's "everybody" (or it feels like everybody sometimes.) But while I notice the problem, I unfortunately do not have a solution to offer. I think Matthew has done a good job of clarifying that it isn't open season on the SSPX and the priests, but the undercurrents are still there.
Reading what Pilar says reminds me of the words of Our Lord, "Many are called, but few are chosen."
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wallflower:
I agree with you for the most part. CI is an important resource but I have noticed it has been attracting a lot of people who have no lost love for the SSPX and are dying to tear it down and criticize every little thing. It's lending CI an unfortunate acrimonious tone.
May I remind you that it was the site's owner, Matthew, custodian of this "important resource," who introduced the topic. Are you accusing Matthew of trying to tear down the Society? The topic has received well over 56,000 hits. Criticizing every little thing would hardly include this particular topic. It isn't a little thing. It stands rather alone as a pretty big thing,IMO!
In a single sspx chapel you've got a guy, who over a 10 year span, manages to molest at least 9 (?) ICC boys,and apparently others, as well. Now he's in jail. You've got a priest who, apparently, blows off earlier warnings concerning this predator.
Now, as a another nasty addendum to the whole affair, though not necessarily related to the ICA school tragedy, you've got another ICC layman, who gets caught in a police sting operation involving the solicitation of under-aged children for sex.
BTW, if a forum like CI had not made people aware of the scandal, one has to wonder whether the story would have gotten out at all. And, if the sspx hierarchy has its way, I think, fhe whole sordid affair will vanish into the mists and be hopefully forgotten. We can be pretty certain that they'll never tell.
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I have no desire to "tear down the Society". They don't need my help destroying themselves. But as a parent who was recently considering moving to a community with an SSPX academy to enroll my sons I consider this information important to my decision to continue to homeschool. I'm certain the rector of the school would not have told me that they can't guarantee that other students wouldn't rape my children on campus.
So God bless you Matthew for helping me to avoid making that mistake. There's a lot of pressure to enroll boys in those schools. I'm glad now I stood firm in my decision to homeschool.
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If you think I am accusing Matthew of trying to tear down the Society, or that I do not value the resource that CI is, then you have a reading comprehension problem, just like Mark. The post Pilar wrote, with which I mostly agreed, actually references the love that people like Matthew have for the SSPX. But this is not the case for everybody.
Because there is a lot of negative to say at the moment, it is bringing many out of the woodworks who do not love the SSPX and never have. They lend a tone. Though the post is here, this is not the only topic on the board. It does happen to be one wherein people are most apt to betray their eagerness to air all dirty laundry with no care for whether it is real, imagined, necessary etc... I can't speak for Pilar but my own opinion is based on a general observance over quite some time. It's making it difficult to be here.
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I'll repeat:
There are, reportedly, the following:
1) A letter of resignation from Fr. Vassal- to date, no one has been able to secure a copy of that letter
2) There is probably a letter(s) from involved parents, or at least some written or recorded statements- Thus far, none of those statements has been made available.
3) There is a purported written statement or letter from the ICC Holy Name Society- That statement has, apparently, been suppressed.
4) Reportedly, the ICC Heart of Mary Guild has also released some kind of letter or statement- We haven't seen it.
From our inquiries, it appears, a relatively few, even from among the ICC faithful at ICC, are privy to these docuмents.
Are there appearances of a massive cover-up? I would have to conclude that there well may be.
They like exposing everyone else's dirty laundry, but hide their own well. Nothing new.
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^^^ really can't type a proper sentence today :facepalm:
The above quote was last in a series of 4 of wallflower's own posts beginning on page 26 of this thread. In 4 consecutive posts over about 30 minutes wallflower finally admitted that she could not "type a proper sentence" that reflected what she actually wanted to convey. Got that? 30 minutes and still couldn't compose her actual meaning.
Now she insists that the problem is actually readers' comprehension.
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Covering up and protecting criminals is typical novus ordo tactics which is not Catholic.
As Catholics, we love the Catholic Church, including the SSPX.
It isn't Catholic when there are lack of morals being condoned and it goes against the Word of God. Sodomy, greed, pederasty is leading souls to Hell. Hence, it is not Catholic.
Archbishop Fulton Sheen says it is up to the laity to save the Catholic Church.
It is up to laity to make sure that priests act like priests and bishops act like bishops.
The laity is to blame for their silence and worshipping man instead of God.
Innocent children are being destroyed by evil. There should be outrage sodomy and perversion is being considered the norm at a traditional Catholic school. That's pure evil. Those who ignored a child who was brutally whipped and sɛҳuąƖly abused has no business being a priest.
A real Catholic superior would fire,defrock and excommunicate immediately instead of playing the novus ordo game of protecting, tranferring bad priests where they end raping more children. Children's safety should be a priority.
The Year of Mercy was to open the doors to sodomists.
A real Pope would defrock and excommunicate sodomists instead promoting them. This not Catholic.
During the SSPX negotiations with Rome, there should been more talks about the indifference towards sins of the flesh and the real schismatics and heretics within the Catholic Church. Thanks to Pope Francis and Timothy Dolan, most Catholics are losing the faith by supporting sodomy, divorce, abortion, money and fame. Then there satanists who have infiltrated the Church and believe in their evil twisted possessed minds that raping children is love.
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This morning we learn from a friend's email that District Superior Wegner will be in Post Falls on Tuesday (7/26/16) He will be saying a Mass and see how things are getting on there. Just a casual visit, you understand. He thought it was time, I guess, to look in on things.
Why is Wegner not coming on Sunday to say Mass and address the whole church? I mean, gosh(!) do we have to explain everything? Cover-up activity is probably best handled during the midweek. :furtive:
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JPM:
Not a single shred of evidence has been provided to substantiate the rumor the thread was based upon. The only addition was from some supposed locals who were aware of the rumblings and rumors but offered nothing more nor less than the original emails that began the thread.
Well, as long as people remain quiet, as long as sspx district superior Wegener, and those above him, can keep the whole affair under wraps, JPM and his cronies hold the upper hand. No doubt, we need some evidence in hand.
Indisputably, there is a letter of resignation from Fr. Vassal. But we haven't seen it. Sloniker is certainly no chimera. He is not a figment of someone's vivid imagination. His story was splashed all over the newspapers. So was Populus.'
JPM may well may be a trial lawyer representing the Society. Do we know, and will he reveal his true identity? I doubt it. But he's right. Unless parents step forward openly and publicly with written and spoken testimony, the case will never exceed "gross negligence," to loosely insert a phrase from the present epoch. Parents and students themselves need to provide some real evidence. Otherwise, they'll never be able to prove "criminal intent." It is all becoming somewhat 'Hillaryesque.'
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Society of St. Pius X
Immaculate Conception Church and Academy
PO Box 206
Post Falls, ID 83877
Statement to the Faithful about Kevin G. Sloniker
Kevin G. Sloniker had been attending and serving Mass at Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls, ID, where he was a volunteer camp counselor in summer camps around a decade ago.
He has been charged in state court with very serious crimes concerning children and is now in police custody.
The Society has been cooperating fully with the police investigation of Mr. Sloniker for more than five weeks.
To date, the Society of St. Pius X has not been advised of any report of criminal activity at the church or on the summer camps. The investigation is ongoing.
The Society of St. Pius X, its priests, and its employees take the protection of minors most seriously. The summer camps are quite structured and supervised, and, since 2012, the Society of St. Pius X has required background checks for all camp counselors.
The Society of St. Pius X assures all victims of abuse and their families of its compassion and prayers.
Any further questions about this statement should be addressed to Fr. Scott Gardner, Legal Secretary: (816) 733-2522.
October 29, 2015
http://icc.id.sspx.org/en/faithful
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Fr. Gardner:
The Society of St. Pius X, its priests, and its employees take the protection of minors most seriously.
Do they really!!? Boy, you could sure fool some of us! Thanks, Mark, for reprinting that letter on an sspx online letterhead. We need more of this. Because what I see developing is a cover-up extraordinaire.
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Fr. Gardner: The Society of St. Pius X, its priests, and its employees take the protection of minors most seriously.
Do they really!!? Boy, you could sure fool some of us! Thanks, Mark, for reprinting that letter on an sspx online letterhead. We need more of this. Because what I see developing is a cover-up extraordinaire.
Tell that to the parents who went to the priests stationed at ICC about Kevin Sloniker and who did ... nothing.
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I think his point in bringing it up is that serious matters are swept under the carpet or put in the back of a closet rather than be addressed.
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I for one would personally do some ass kicking if I saw something like this happening and nothing being done about it. Ass kicking to the sodomite, accomplices/enablers/liars. That is how things were handled by men. Damn the legal repercussions.
From my years of experience, I see that men today are blind as to the signs of an effeminate man. Women are even less aware. I've seen some flagrant obvious effeminates come to our chapel and no one notices them. That's likely how all these scandals in the SSPX chapels happened.
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The SSPX has all of the US Catholic Church cases right in front of them to see the damage that the devil is doing:
some of us cannot place facts as clearly on this site without letting everyone know who we are or why we have the information.
Background checks are not done by SSPX on counselors or teachers at the Academies. This is a fact. There is not a letter than can be published to this.
The business side of the SSPX needs to be taken under strict control to protect us all.
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The business side of the SSPX needs to be taken under strict control to protect us all.
You would think so but the SSPX has in fact been implementing programs that will not only protect the children from being alone with anyone but also themselves from false accusations. They started in Canadian parishes first as a trial. But people complained and left over that too. Some think it's a sign of the SSPX modernizing and refuse to conform. No matter what they do, someone is not happy.
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the SSPX has in fact been implementing programs that will not only protect the children from being alone with anyone but also themselves from false accusations. They started in Canadian parishes first as a trial.
What exactly are these "programs" to protect the children?
There is nothing that can protect the children if the SSPX hires predators and ordains effeminates, the protection begins with the prior responsible for the hiring and the rectors in charge of the seminaries.
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Which rumor?
The boy's ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ acts have been occurring and Father Vassal had the parents meeting
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You would think so but the SSPX has in fact been implementing programs that will not only protect the children from being alone with anyone but also themselves from false accusations. They started in Canadian parishes first as a trial. But people complained and left over that too. Some think it's a sign of the SSPX modernizing and refuse to conform. No matter what they do, someone is not happy.
This was not done across Canada, only in Saskatchewan or Manitoba.
The reason people left was because what they were being forced to sign (yes their children couldn't receive 1st Communion etc unless the parents signed) stated that this was their committment in perpetuity that they WOULD NEVER SUE THE SSPX.
It was withdrawn so the wording could be reworked.
Would you sign?
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Taking prudent, appropriate measures is what is called for.
When I was at the Winona, MN seminary, the world was abuzz with talk of the Novus Ordo priest scandals.
During this time, they installed eye-level small 12" x 12" windows on all the wooden doors in the office/waiting room/visitors/secretary's area at the front of the building.
This was done just to make things a bit less private in the public areas of the seminary.
These are the kind of concrete actions that help prevent problems from ever developing, and putting everyone's mind at ease. In a word: prudence.
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I find it interesting that whenever someone brings up the fact that there has still been no substantiation of the original rumor, it is immediately dismissed as being due to a cover-up. That is certainly a possibility, but it is also possible that the initial rumor was mistaken. Why is everyone so eager to assume the worst?
And I find it interesting that whenever someone posts the concerns, some newbie attempts a diversion.
Keep your eye on the ball:
• Sloniker, warnings from a victim and parents ignored
• group homo-sex in the school and church, lied to parents
• Populous, another serial pedophile in the same parish
• accomplices/enablers/liars who "take the protection of minors most seriously"
The diversions?
"Rumors," Nitpicking," "little axes," "always hate the SSPX," "trial lawyer," "neighbors," the victim's warning and the parents' warnings weren't about incidents "at the church or on the summer camps" but elsewhere—What trick of the rabbis won't the accomplices use?
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You would think so but the SSPX has in fact been implementing programs that will not only protect the children from being alone with anyone but also themselves from false accusations. They started in Canadian parishes first as a trial. But people complained and left over that too. Some think it's a sign of the SSPX modernizing and refuse to conform. No matter what they do, someone is not happy.
This was not done across Canada, only in Saskatchewan or Manitoba.
The reason people left was because what they were being forced to sign (yes their children couldn't receive 1st Communion etc unless the parents signed) stated that this was their committment in perpetuity that they WOULD NEVER SUE THE SSPX.
It was withdrawn so the wording could be reworked.
Would you sign?
Ah, thanks, I had heard it was Canada-wide. I would have a problem with promising not to sue the SSPX in perpetuity. That's a ridiculously blank check that no one should have.
But the debates I saw were not about children unable to receive 1st Communion unless parents signed. The debates I saw were people objecting to having to undergo the certification training required to be in charge of SSPX activities and groups of children. My understanding was that only those in charge of children on SSPX property and/or time had to go through training and never be alone with children. Not the whole parish. There had to be two adults at all times for SSPX functions and one had to be "certified" to docuмent procedures. This sounded very reasonable to me. But I saw people arguing it with my own eyes (SSPX FB), complaining it was modernist etc..., no word on 1st Communions at all. Maybe there were two facets to it?
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The ICC/ICA scandals will never be effectively addressed, until people in the know step forward publicly with their letters and personal testimonies, with clear statements for the record, and with other irrefutable docuмentation. That has not happened to any appreciable degree. The people closest to the situation, you can be almost sure, are being warned by priests, intimidated by the sspx hierarchy, and told to keep quiet in no uncertain terms.
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The ICC/ICA scandals will never be effectively addressed, until people in the know step forward publicly with their letters and personal testimonies, with clear statements for the record, and with other irrefutable docuмentation. That has not happened to any appreciable degree. The people closest to the situation, you can be almost sure, are being warned by priests, intimidated by the sspx hierarchy, and told to keep quiet in no uncertain terms.
Meanwhile, parents in the cult should be vigilant of their children.
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I can tell you that the summer camp for my chapel was cancelled this year. The main reason was that an "official SSPX sanctioned event" now needs background checks for all camp counselors and assistants that will be in contact with the children. I have an email from the prior.
This sounds like a step in the right direction. I'm sure someone can squeeze some negativity out of this requirement, but nonetheless, background checks on those that work with children is a good thing. Not that it catches everyone, but it will at least stop those with a criminal background looking for naive people with easy to access children.
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JPM: Not a single shred of evidence has been provided to substantiate the rumor the thread was based upon. The only addition was from some supposed locals who were aware of the rumblings and rumors but offered nothing more nor less than the original emails that began the thread.
JPM may well may be a trial lawyer representing the Society.
No, I am not.
Do we know, and will he reveal his true identity?
What have you done do deserve that?
But he's right.
Yes, I am.
Parents and students themselves need to provide some real evidence.
Yes, they do.
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and who did ... nothing.
How do you know they did nothing? Just because the investigation is not completely open to the public?
Did you not read the account of the Kevin Sloniker victims and their families?
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I am sure the usual suspects will discount the importance of the letters from Frs. Vassal and Wegner:
(https://s31.postimg.org/hi241w623/vassal_letter.jpg)
(https://s31.postimg.org/lgkmcifqz/Wegner_letter.jpg)
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I am much more comfortable accepting Fr Vassal's accusation of himself than taking a story with an unknown origin, 12 legs all with more legs of their own and no distinctions as Gospel truth.
To which accusation do refer?
That he mishandled the problem in the boys' school and didn't make it a priority. That's what I took from his letter.
What exactly that problem was is still very unclear and will likely remain that way.
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NoOneImportant and Wallflower --
That's "unknown origin" to you. That doesn't mean the person who wrote to The Mailbag is completely unknown. They used their first and last name to me. I'm just withholding it from the public, that's all.
Anonymous isn't the same thing as confidential. I am withholding their names in confidence. That doesn't mean they are anonymous or completely cloaked in the cover of darkness.
Therefore, taking a "confidential report" and calling it "anonymous" is exaggerating -- actually distorting the truth. Why do you feel the need to distort the truth? Why not just stick to the simple accurate truth, "confidential report". Is it because anonymous sounds more malicious?
And you can drop the "rumor", "is it true", "anonymous" bit altogether.
Fr. Vassal didn't resign for nothing. There is obviously a bunch of fire behind all this smoke or he wouldn't have resigned.
At this point, CathInfo (including me, who allowed and started the thread), stands vindicated.
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Matthew I understand your confidentiality. I know the difference and understand that you know more about posters and emailers than we do. You are still taking hearsay on a very grave matter. You aren't in Post Falls. Your boys haven't been through anything. You have to trust your source. Which is fine, if you know them well enough to do so. That's your choice.
Likewise it is my choice to realize I am yet another step removed from the source, even more than you. I've been around trad circles long enough to know that we are experts at Chinese telephone and it doesn't hurt to be cautious. The priests aren't the only ones who can be seriously lacking, some parishioners are truly nuts. So your posts might be from the mailbag, I do not know who is on the other end of that and I have no way of verifying. I am sorry, it's simply the truth.
Aside from your source, many posters jumping to serious conclusions in this thread have NO idea what they are talking about, whether they like to admit it or not. Unless all active CI members are from Post Falls and happen to be parents with boys in the school now. You start a thread about a group of boys engaging in sodomy and now 30 pages later we have someone saying good thing her boys aren't in SSPX schools since there's no guarantee her boys wouldn't be raped. ??? Did I miss where now the boys were raping others in school?
Anyone who has practiced a little reservation of judgment now and then knows that you can accept something might be true, that it is probably true to some degree, but refrain from jumping to wild conclusions until you have something more than a 6th degree story. It's just a bit of patience, not denial.
But to some, because I am not ready to lynch Fr Vassal or the entire SSPX, I must be the enemy as well. It's a bit ridiculous.
CI may be vindicated that there is a problem and that Fr Vassal mishandled it. The details are still unknown. Guaranteed many of the theories offered here are wrong.
And since it still involves boys behavior among themselves, I still believe there ought to be an element of confidentiality, contrary to what I would believe were it a problem of adults abusing children. So I am personally ok with Fr. Vassal confirming there was a problem, confirming he didn't make it the priority it ought to have been and leaving it at that. I don't need the details beyond how adults in the situation, priest and parents alike could have done better to prevent the problem.
But then again, maybe I am the only one here who knows these problems can happen anywhere. It's very discouraging and scary to have a scandal like this come to light. It sounds like this one might be particularly bad. But it doesn't shock me to the core as if it's never happened before or as if I was not already cautious. Girls' schools, boys' schools, it can happen. You have to watch your children, it doesn't matter where they are.
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Wallflower, your points are academic and I fail to see how they apply in the concrete.
Yes, some people went off the rails. Several different "cases" were almost blended together (Sloniker, Populus, etc.) and many people chimed in who weren't from Post Falls.
That having been said, I only have two choices:
Allow the thread
or
Forbid mention of it on CathInfo (delete/censor/forbid any threads on the topic).
I only had 2 choices.
Even if a few people OVER-react, but in the end they protect their children by not sending them to Post Falls, then good has been done by this thread.
And even if those few people turn "corruption of my boy and loss of his virginity" into "my boy getting raped" how is that not accurate? If a boy's innocence is lost, who cares if it was consensual or not! I'd go so far as to call that splitting hairs. Yes, it's not "accurate", but accuracy in certain cases is PEDANTICS or SPLITTING HAIRS.
If a loved one was murdered, but the person got convicted of manslaughter, I'd consider you pedantic if you corrected me, "No, he wasn't murdered, he was indirectly killed. The accused was convicted of manslaughter, not murder."
Who cares! The loved one is dead. The accused drove his car into my loved one while drunk. In my book, that's murder. Who cares if the courts let him off on a lesser charge.
Likewise, I fail to see any comfort in "my boy was turned into a consensual sodomite who now has no innocence" instead of "my boy was raped and now has no innocence and/or he is now a sodomite"
Talk about splitting hairs!
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Snowball,
We don't need to get into gory details.
To answer your question, "What kind of sex?"
ANY KIND OF SEX. It doesn't matter.
When the subject is MY BOY and the object is OTHER BOYS I don't want to hear about ANY KIND OF SEX, no matter which body parts are involved, consensual or not, kinky or boring, etc.
Among the sodomites themselves, maybe they have some kind of "first base", "second base", "third base" distinction regarding the different kinds of sɛҳuąƖ activity possible between two men. They probably rank them as being more or less intimate expressions or more/less pleasurable.
But for a parent, those distinctions don't make a bit of difference. sɛҳuąƖ contact is sɛҳuąƖ contact!
Anything less than COMPLETE ABSTINENCE a.k.a. PERFECT CHASTITY among a group of boys is a huge red flag and cause for alarm.
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...blah, blah, blah...
Wallflower, very well stated. And I concur that prudence and reservation are in order.
"Prudence and reservation" prioritize the protection of children, especially when we have had evidence from the very first report about Sloniker that the SSPX ignored credible warnings. In the case of Sloniker, the warnings came from a victim who was whipped while naked and warnings from multiple parents. The warnings were "prudently" ignored and more children were "reservedly" harmed.
Your version of "prudence and reservation" is akin to smelling smoke and hearing the crackling of flames while you and your children remain in bed until your television news confirms you and your children died in your house fire.
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Men focus on the object -- the truth. Objectivity and reason. What is the matter of discussion?
Women focus on the person -- what is he like? Is he a jerk? Is he mean, or is he being mean about this? Has he crossed the line? How is he going about his crusade, does he have bitter zeal? Is he a sinner or a saint? Has he done something bad in the past, which might tempt me to oppose him now, even if he's objectively right?
I think that's the difference between myself and Wallflower on this one.
Yes, some members are letting bitter zeal get the better of them, but humanly speaking that's understandable.
It's part of what happens when you have a thread of this nature on a highly public forum. You're going to get a few axe-grinders from way back. You're going to get some bitter zeal. But all in all, the word will get out and much good will be done.
I'm sure many evils occurred during the Crusades. Many of those who got involved crossed the line and committed rapes, robberies, murders and other heinous sins. But the Pope was right to call the Crusades to win back the Holy Land and fight the Muslims on their home ground.
If anything, the Crusades were an example of where the evils OUTWEIGHED the goods that resulted. I think this thread is much more skewed towards good than the Crusades were.
If we were living in the time of the Crusades right now, I would *definitely* see Wallflower philosophizing and complaining about how many Catholics crossed the line during the Crusades...
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...What exactly that problem was is still very unclear and will likely remain that way.
I was tempted to answer the specifics, but instead will note this: the specifics were mentioned in the thread.
Your question indicates that while you were insisting there was no evidence, you had not actually read what was posted in this and related threads.
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Choice one: close the school.
Choice two: close the school.
Choice three, which should be choice one: Home School
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I repeat and clarify:
If I was sending my (innocent) boy or boys to Post Falls, it wouldn't make any difference to me whether
A) my boys were corrupted into sodomy, and they committed this vice consensualy among themselves
B) some older student(s) or teacher(s) raped them.
Either way, their souls were VIOLATED or raped, their innocence was stolen from them in a place I specifically chose as a safe haven from such corruption, and my TRUST in the priests/laymen in charge of the school would likewise be violated.
Lastly, sodomy (CONSENSUAL OR NOT) does something to a boy and leaves a lasting indelible mark, and if anything rape would be easier to "move past" than a slow, methodical corruption whereby it becomes PART OF THEM or THEIR IDEA.
So actually I might be more upset to hear my boys were corrupted into sodomy than I would be if I heard that they were raped.
Hearing that my boys "consented" to all the sodomy would be COLD COMFORT, let me tell you that as a parent.
That's like giving some parents the bad news that, "Your daughter was raped." and then quickly following it up with, "But at least the assailant used a condom!" or, "But the good news is that her H-I-V test came back negative!" Like I said: "cold comfort".
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The difference between consensual or rape is splitting hairs??? You might want to rethink that, maybe visualize it for half a second, put yourself or loved ones in both shoes for another half second to compare and realize the stark falsehood of what you just said, and edit it right off the thread.
Likewise I would feel very differently towards someone who killed a loved one by accident than someone who killed a loved one on purpose. I would even feel differently if the drunk were a habitual drunk or a young kid who didn't realize he couldn't hold his liquor. The end result is the same but the temptations to hatred towards the person would be very different. We are in a twilight zone right now where you are insisting distinctions, and grave ones at that, don't matter. I am having difficulty wrapping my head around this behavior from you or even knowing how to respond to it.
I am just going to say you've got far stronger defenses for leaving the thread up than that, if such a gross statement can even be considered a defense. The odd thing about it is that I don't think you even need a defense anyway. I've said so before. There's nothing in what I am saying or ever have said that accuses you for putting the thread up. My problem is mostly with where people have taken it and how any voice of caution that it hasn't been substantiated is twisted and booed out of the stadium. This is mob mentality. It is NOT Catholic. This topic is too serious to take at one-sided face value.
If you want to believe that children will be protected simply by not going to Post Falls, great. I don't have that view. Not at all. Neither do I believe this was only a school problem. You think boys behaving this way at school didn't (most likely) also do so at home or elsewhere? You think they learned it at school? Chances are high they learned it elsewhere and brought it to school. Chances are high it happened many places other than school. Right under parents noses in fact. But all of a sudden it's all at Fr. Vassal's feet. Yeah that's fair. He's responsible for his own failings in the matter, I do not deny his failings may be great, but generally, I do not believe for a minute he is the only or even the worst adult culpable here. But at the same time, I am not involved and have to stay somewhat detached from my opinion of what's "most likely".
Details aside, simply not sending your child to an SSPX school is not the solution you and others seem to think it is. That's the bottom line for me.
Speaking concretely, I did have an idea come to mind today, if that's what you're looking for. When dealing with grave "rumors" that could potentially destroy the reputations of many and hang over them for life, it might be a good idea to start a thread that you can post to but that is closed to the peanut gallery until further notice. We really don't add that much of value anyway but you are still getting the information out there and actively looking for answers. Or just wait to have the docuмents in hand then post them. There might be more than 2 choices if we look for them.
Truly a bunch of blathering equivocation and straw man arguments.
Who said it's "all at Fr. Vassal's feet"?
What was explicitly and specifically laid at Fr. Vassal and Fr. Crane's feet is that they ignored and/or punished warnings about serious behavior that actually harmed children.
It doesn't require "bitter zeal" to recognize the SSPX pattern of secrecy, intransigence, and "killing the messenger." This time their modus operandi has blown up in their faces. It is a teachable moment (for the SSPX to learn). Will the superiors reflect on the scandals and prescribe a more Christ-like approach? respecting parents? ...or will they instead consult Jєω lawyers to concoct protocols that can have no benefit when at least one of the priests involved confessed that he failed to prioritize the protection of children?
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Mark 79, since the moderator has made it impossible for me to Thumbs Down your comments, consider this post the equivalent.
Poor baby.
As far as trying to post a quote from over 35 different pages, it's not worth my time.
My, my... so "many" yet so hard for you.
Regarding the SSPX response regarding sloniker, it has been noted in public news print that when it was made known to the priests, he was no longer allowed to be associated with the camps.
Sounds like a good response, but then again, that was over 10 years ago.
Read carefully: "...over the past decade" and "...repeatedly over the past six years," are not the same as "10 years ago."
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/oct/26/coeur-dalene-man-jailed-on-1-million-bond-suspecte/
And the restraint counseled refers to judgement/condemnation before facts are presented, unlike the allegations and assumptions presented herein.
See the public facts: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/oct/26/coeur-dalene-man-jailed-on-1-million-bond-suspecte/
BTW, feel free to dislike this post as I'm sure Mathew will as well. :-P :rahrah:
Coeur d’Alene man jailed, suspected of raping and abusing underage boys
A long-haul truck driver from Coeur d’Alene who also served as a church youth camp counselor is suspected of raping and abusing underage boys in Spokane and Kootenai counties over the past decade.
Kevin G. Sloniker, 30, faces felony charges of rape and lewd conduct involving two underage boys and is a suspect in the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of at least eight other boys, according to court docuмents. He’s being held in the Kootenai County Jail on $1 million bond.
Sloniker met and befriended some of the boys in his role as a youth camp counselor at Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls, according to investigative reports filed with 1st District Court in Kootenai County.
Some of the alleged abuse occurred at Sloniker’s parents’ home in Latah, south of Spokane, and some happened when he took boys on the road with him around the Western U.S., according to court records.
He was arrested on a warrant Sept. 14 in Menomonie, Wisconsin, and extradited to Kootenai County, where he was booked into jail Oct. 9. Sloniker is charged with two counts of felony lewd conduct and one count of felony rape. Additional charges are possible, prosecutors in Kootenai and Spokane counties say.
Sloniker made his first court appearance Friday, when his bond was set by 1st District Magistrate Barry Watson. He does not yet have an attorney.
In an Oct. 9 interview with police, Sloniker admitted to fondling nine boys, having oral sex with a few of them and raping one over the past 10 years. He said he wanted help for an addiction to touching young boys.
Because Sloniker is accused of taking boys across state lines to abuse them, he also may face federal charges.
Sloniker allegedly raped and assaulted one Coeur d’Alene boy repeatedly over the past six years, starting when the victim was about 11 years old and living near Airway Heights, according to a criminal complaint. Sloniker was a family friend and later moved in with the boy’s mother, the victim told a police detective. He also said Sloniker pressured him to bring his two cousins to Sloniker’s apartment so he could molest them as well.
Sloniker also is charged with lewd and lascivious conduct with a 9-year-old boy from Newport, Washington. That boy told detectives Sloniker fondled him during an overnight stay at the suspect’s residence last April.
Witnesses told investigators Sloniker liked to spend time with kids much younger than him and would buy them lavish gifts. He was involved in youth camps at Immaculate Conception Church (you know, the same guy that was kicked out of the seminary for "circuмcizing himself"), which is part of the Society of Saint Pius X, a traditionalist group with no canonical standing in the Roman Catholic Church.
One boy said he attended the church’s Immaculate Conception Academy, and that Sloniker was involved with a group of boys who attended the K-12 school in Post Falls. Sloniker also taught boys how to be altar boys through the Guild of St. Stephen, an international organization of altar servers, investigators learned.
Some parents told police they knew of or strongly suspected the abuse and advised others to keep their kids away from Sloniker. In some cases Sloniker lived for a time with the families of his alleged victims.
One alleged victim told a detective that Sloniker took him on a long trip in his truck through seven Western states when the boy was between 10 and 15 years old. Sloniker sɛҳuąƖly assaulted him repeatedly during the journey, the boy stated.
Another boy said he spent one summer at the Latah farm when he was about 12. Sloniker’s attention escalated to nightly sɛҳuąƖ abuse, and Sloniker also hit him with a whip, he told police.
Several of those interviewed said they reported their concerns to the priests at Immaculate Conception Church. The boy who said he was whipped by Sloniker said he shared that with Father Patrick Crane. He also told the priest that Sloniker made him strip naked.
Crane, who now is with another Society of Saint Pius X church – Our Lady of Sorrows in Phoenix – was interviewed by a detective Sept. 22. He said Sloniker worked with the church camp from 2003 to 2006 and that he did not have any issues with him.
When the detective shared that one of the alleged victims said he had told Crane about Sloniker whipping him, “Crane said he remembers part of it, but it was mostly because (the boy) did not want to attend the camp.”
Crane added that he remembers not asking Sloniker back after that, and also told the detective that if something had been brought forward, he would have said something “because this was during the time the church was being looked into for other abuse allegations across America,” the detective wrote.
Others said they warned Father James Haynos and Father Paul Vassal at the church about Sloniker.
Neither Vassal, the headmaster at the church, nor Crane returned calls for comment Monday.
The detective learned that Sloniker had attended St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary, also part of the Society of St. Pius X, in Winona, Minnesota. Vassal said in an Oct. 2 interview with police that the seminary in 2005 deemed Sloniker to be mentally unstable after he tried to circuмcise himself. He was removed from the seminary program. (but was deemed appropriate as a counsellor and mentor of altar boys).
There were no known incidents of sɛҳuąƖ abuse by Sloniker back then, Vassal told police.
Haynos, who now lives in Kansas, told Coeur d’Alene police Detective Nicholas Lowry he was unaware of the sex abuse allegations against Sloniker. “Haynos also told me due to Sloniker’s unstable mindset he would never be put in a position in which he would be in charge of kids,” the detective wrote.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/oct/26/coeur-dalene-man-jailed-on-1-million-bond-suspecte/
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I know that households sometimes have 2 members, but this wasn't one of them.
I use my common sense.
For example, in this case, Bonum was at the "downthumb limit" for one of his opponents, which he publicly mentioned, and was likely frustrated into signing up for a second account.
Of course, I also have a restriction in place where you can't vote on posts that pre-dated your own sign-up on CathInfo :)
Also, although some companies have 25 employees, what are the chances that two EMPLOYEES at a random company of 25 would be Traditional Catholic, much less CathInfo members? The mathematical chances of that are infinitesimal, and in fact it's never happened to the best of my knowledge.
Does ANYONE out there have co-workers that browse CathInfo along side them, each with their own account?
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If you want to believe that children will be protected simply by not going to Post Falls, great.
I don't recall reading any posts in this thread where someone said they believe their children will be 100% protected from all evils simply by not going to Post Falls. Of course there are dangers everywhere, but any parent who would knowingly send his son to a school where sodomy and other unspeakable sins have been going on for years, and where the pastor and principal would rather shoot the messenger than deal with the problem is out of his mind.
But all of a sudden it's all at Fr. Vassal's feet. Yeah that's fair.
No one said it was "100% ("all") at Fr. V's feet." But obviously he bears huge responsibility for what transpired at the school through his negligence.
but generally, I do not believe for a minute he is the only or even the worst adult culpable here.
Who said he was? And anyway, who is the "worst adult culpable here" is sheer speculation and somewhat irrelevant.
But at the same time, I am not involved and have to stay somewhat detached from my opinion of what's "most likely".
Good idea; I must admit I take the word of those who live out there before I listen to your speculations.
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...Hearing that my boys "consented" to all the sodomy would be COLD COMFORT, let me tell you that as a parent....
... Are they actually sodomites? Are they effeminate and attracted to men and/or boys? Are they rife with perversion, never again to lead normal lives? Do they identify?
A percentage of children/teens experiment to varying degrees with each other since it's secret and hidden but not necessarily for truly ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies. That's where crude jokes about boys schools and girls schools come from, do they not? ...
So I am forced to wonder which category this story falls into before I can fully convict these boys of being all out sodomites for life who can never get over this or have hope for any normal Catholic future. Experiments for the sake of secret sex and curiosity or truly ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ tendencies for the sake of being ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ? Granted the few people that I know well enough to know their darkest secrets represent a small percentage (I think), but I cannot help that I have seen there's a difference, and it makes me stop short of writing off all these boys to oblivion. In the absence of any proof I prefer to hope they have a chance, especially if they have the Faith, (hopefully) decent parents and confessors, and can be well-directed. But again, I am open to the alternative IF or when it comes to light.
:facepalm: Did someone take over wallflower's account, and someone else is posting in her name?
I can't believe some of what I'm reading here. To minimize the utter seriousness of what occurred at ICA - just unbelievable.
Perhaps the thread is getting too long, and we need a reminder of what happened, from an ICA parent who attended the meeting with Fr. Vassal:
It is very true. ... Unfortunately it is most probably worse than what is posted here. ... The affected children of sodomy, molestation, group masturbation are not receiving any help or counselling. These sins are spreading in the homes to the younger siblings. ...
I have spoken to high school parents. They did seek help, their children sought help. They were ill advised and the boys remained on campus. Its my understanding that not one boy ever was suspended for one day for this behavior. So far, it is established that this has spread to 8-9th grade boys this last school year. At least one family has had an older brother affect his younger brother.
...The horrible actions happened on campus over two school years at least. (There was group masturbation, sodomy, molestation). ... parents confirm that it is ongoing and that many boys are participants and victims. 8-15 boys. At this time there's no telling how many [more] boys. There are many large families involved.
Is that understandable?
To see commentary about how "A percentage of children/teens experiment to varying degrees" etc in the face of the activities listed by pendulum bolded by me above - my mind is reeling, and I don't know what to say. Can anyone imagine St. John Bosco reassuring parents in such a manner? "Hey, a percentage of children/teens experiment to varying degrees, and after all, they might not be full-out sodomites for life; they might grow up to have a normal Catholic future." :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
BTW, I don't recall reading in the thread that all of the involved are irredeemable, and are 100% sodomite etc. Once again, wallflower, you are the one doing a lot of extrapolating and making assumptions about what people mean and think. Let's certainly hope & pray the boys can come around and lead a good Catholic life someday. But for someone to brush off the exceedingly serious sins going on in that school, or minimize them in any way, and to minimize the damage done to these boys - there are no words.
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More testimony from someone involved. I know the critics will say the person didn't sign their name, but obviously they have their reasons for not doing so. And as Matthew said, anonymous to the general population doesn't mean Matthew doesn't know the identity of the person.
From the mailbag:
I read [CathInfo], and thought I would update you on the post falls affair. Most everything written so far is fairly correct. I say fairly because many go off course with their bickering and jumping to conclusions.
Correspondence has been received by us parishioners from Fr Wegner informing us of Fr Vassals resignation, with a letter also from Fr Vassal himself confirming that he is leaving, effective today. We will be getting a new pastor, which is good! But I want to say that the school is in no way fixed. I only hope the parents can see that! It is depressing for those of us being honest about the situation, to see what is happening and what is not.
I appreciate very much your helping to spread our terrible news, as it needed to get out to inform people. There will always be people who won't believe it, and I am sorry for them. It is a terrible thing when abuse touches your family, and I hope they never need to experience that.
Please continue to pray for the people of post falls, and especially for our children.
BTW, to this confidential author and all concerned parties, be assured of my continued prayers for you all. :pray:
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...Your version of "prudence and reservation" is akin to smelling smoke and hearing the crackling of flames while you and your children remain in bed until your television news confirms you and your children died in your house fire.
:applause:
This statement is so appropriate, not only WRT this thread, but for so many other topics as well.
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Testimony from someone at the parents' meeting with Fr. Vassal:
It is very true. ... Unfortunately it is most probably worse than what is posted here. ... The affected children of sodomy, molestation, group masturbation are not receiving any help or counselling. These sins are spreading in the homes to the younger siblings. ...
I have spoken to high school parents. They did seek help, their children sought help. They were ill advised and the boys remained on campus. Its my understanding that not one boy ever was suspended for one day for this behavior. So far, it is established that this has spread to 8-9th grade boys this last school year. At least one family has had an older brother affect his younger brother.
...The horrible actions happened on campus over two school years at least. (There was group masturbation, sodomy, molestation). ... parents confirm that it is ongoing and that many boys are participants and victims. 8-15 boys. At this time there's no telling how many [more] boys. There are many large families involved.
More testimony from someone involved. I know the critics will say the person didn't sign their name, but obviously they have their reasons for not doing so. And as Matthew said, anonymous to the general population doesn't mean Matthew doesn't know the identity of the person.
From the mailbag:
I read [CathInfo], and thought I would update you on the post falls affair. Most everything written so far is fairly correct. I say fairly because many go off course with their bickering and jumping to conclusions.
Correspondence has been received by us parishioners from Fr Wegner informing us of Fr Vassals resignation, with a letter also from Fr Vassal himself confirming that he is leaving, effective today. We will be getting a new pastor, which is good! But I want to say that the school is in no way fixed. I only hope the parents can see that! It is depressing for those of us being honest about the situation, to see what is happening and what is not.
I appreciate very much your helping to spread our terrible news, as it needed to get out to inform people. There will always be people who won't believe it, and I am sorry for them. It is a terrible thing when abuse touches your family, and I hope they never need to experience that.
Please continue to pray for the people of post falls, and especially for our children.
BTW, to this confidential author and all concerned parties, be assured of my continued prayers for you all. :pray:
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Bravo, CWA in reassembling and highlighting the evidence and in exposing the skeptics' serial straw man arguments. The skeptics "defeated" arguments that NOBODY made, while ignoring the evidence in hand. If uninformed SSPXers stumble upon this thread, it is important that they see the pattern of evidence and not fall prey to the fallacious "logic" of the skeptics.
I am confident, CWA, that if you smell smoke, you will move to protect your children... and CWA and I do NOT have the same ISP and are not "several adults living together."
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CWA you can calm down and quit spam posting me. I am not minimizing anything. In fact it's because this situation IS so grave that I am trying to be more cautious. ...
Straw man arguments are dishonest, not cautious. The posting of evidence that you demanded is not spam; calling the evidence spam is dishonest.
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...
I don't think its fair to accuse wallflower of having her account being taken over by someone else. Please get a grip. You are extremely angry, and the target for that anger seems to be wallflower.
A question is not an accusation; calling a question an accusation is dishonest... hysterics... just one more diversion from the evidence that you so sanctimoniously demanded (when you already had plenty of evidence available). Further, you have amply demonstrated here that you are utterly incompetent to opine about how things "seem."
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Mark:
Straw man arguments are dishonest, not cautious. The posting of evidence that you demanded is not spam; calling the evidence spam is dishonest.
Agreed. I hope that some don't start turning people, undeserving of sympathy, into sympathetic characters.
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It is very true. ... Unfortunately it is most probably worse than what is posted here. ... The affected children of sodomy, molestation, group masturbation are not receiving any help or counselling. These sins are spreading in the homes to the younger siblings. ...
I have spoken to high school parents. They did seek help, their children sought help. They were ill advised and the boys remained on campus. Its my understanding that not one boy ever was suspended for one day for this behavior. So far, it is established that this has spread to 8-9th grade boys this last school year. At least one family has had an older brother affect his younger brother.
...The horrible actions happened on campus over two school years at least. (There was group masturbation, sodomy, molestation). ... parents confirm that it is ongoing and that many boys are participants and victims. 8-15 boys. At this time there's no telling how many [more] boys. There are many large families involved.
Is that understandable?
This really ticks me off. What kind of a priest/managers/employees allow this to happen on their watch?
I have to say that none of it surprises me, the SSPX seminaries have been putting out soft men (lovers of fine cassocks, incense and bells) for at least 15 years now. Unfortunately, I can't met all these priests involved, but of the priest I have seen, none of them would have had a different outcome. Blame the seminary and ultimately the Superior General, that is where the problem begins.
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My Goodness.
Someone who is on this thread who constantly ask for proof also must not grasp the gravity of any of the situations.
You wont' find all the letters you want from SSPX meeting etc. They may end up in a law suit(or multiple). They won't risk placing too much out there that could go against them later.
That is the same for any injured party. People are not going to place "proofs" that satisfy every individual on this website(there can be 20 version of what constitutes proof). The courts and law will work things out if it comes to that.
Sloniker
Teenage ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity
Mr. Populus
The Neighboring exorcist lady
These are brought up to show concerning patterns that if left untreated can be systemic.
I do not think anyone was trying to connect each event to the other. They were trying to find the common denominator linked back to SSPX practices. Before, during, and after events/issues.
In every instance, we see some distinct patterns with our dear SSPX handling the situations. And they are treated very, very similarly in most chapels. and No, there probably isn't an announcement like that in the weekly bulletin.
Each of these issues just happen to be SSPX and in Post Falls. They can happen anywhere. Sadly enough, many of the same things are happening elsewhere.
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What you call evidence is hearsay. I "demanded" evidence, I got hearsay. One sided at that. I bet the story would be different among all 20 parents who pulled their boys out and I bet many parents are at odds even among themselves about what really happened.
Now one or two have their versions online and all of a sudden this is the unequivocal objective truth. :facepalm:
Horse droppings! Since October 2015 we have had all we needed to know to sound the alarm: Sloniker's confession and priests (plural) who ignored warnings. Sloniker abused about a dozen children. How many children need be abused before you see the fire? YOU are the type of equivocator in deep denial who made the Novus Ordo fertile ground for serial abusers and enablers. I told you I have been to this 'rodeo' before and I have seen dozens of sanctimonious deniers and enablers like you.
You have played victim, accused others of having reading comprehension problems when you had already admitted you had trouble composing a sentence, you proferred dozens of straw man arguments, "defeating" arguments that NOBODY had advanced, hysterics, distractions, laziness in not even reading the evidence offered.
I can understand honest reticence in acknowledging a series of heinous scandals against children. I do not understand dishonest straw man arguments and playing that you are the victim.
Hmmmm.... deceitful arguments, claiming "hate" in your critics, perpetrators and enablers playing "victim"..... hmmmm... where have we seen that before? It seems that the rabbis' bag of deceits has metastasized into "traditional" circles. http://judaism.is/torah-encourages-lies.html
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I've been trying to get the point across that problems at ICC are nothing new. Left with only a "band-aid treatment", they have gone from bad to worse. And the "remedy" they are using for the current ICC crisis is the same one they've used for decades.
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My Goodness.
Someone who is on this thread who constantly ask for proof also must not grasp the gravity of any of the situations.
You wont' find all the letters you want from SSPX meeting etc. They may end up in a law suit(or multiple). They won't risk placing too much out there that could go against them later.
That is the same for any injured party. People are not going to place "proofs" that satisfy every individual on this website(there can be 20 version of what constitutes proof). The courts and law will work things out if it comes to that.
I am not asking for proof. That is the ever-reasonable Mark's reading comprehension tripping you up. Hence the parentheses in my post. He believes I am "sanctimoniously demanding" evidence. His words, not mine. If you've been reading my posts enough to want to respond then you should know I am one of the few who says we don't have proof, we're not likely to get proof and it is for the better that we don't.
Believing that hearsay of one or two versions of a parish and school-wide scandal does not constitute objective truth, is not equivalent to asking for proof.
Reminding people to be careful what they believe because they have no proof, is not equal to asking for proof.
Believing that it is wrong to repeat and believe wholeheartedly (for example) that Fr. Vassal thinks boys should be exposed to a little pornography -- essentially convicting him in my mind-- just because a parent reports it secondhand, is not the same as asking for proof.
Stating that my mind is open to proof IF it should come to light, is not the same as asking for proof.
That's the biggest problem with this entire thread. People are behaving as though they have indisputable proof when they don't and may not ever. Now what?
I am ok with having a couple of question marks in my mind. It's life, I am getting used to it, as painful as it can be. I do what I can on my side and leave the rest to God.
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Ive been on 2 jury trials to convict men of murder. The 'smoking gun', absolute 100% proof of a crime exists only on tv. Circuмstantial evidence is what most cases are built upon. This case has plenty of circuмstantial evidence, as well as admittance by authorities that a scandal happened. We may never know all the details (nor do we deserve to) but we have way, way more facts than just hearsay.
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Ive been on 2 jury trials to convict men of murder. The 'smoking gun', absolute 100% proof of a crime exists only on tv. Circuмstantial evidence is what most cases are built upon. This case has plenty of circuмstantial evidence, as well as admittance by authorities that a scandal happened. We may never know all the details (nor do we deserve to) but we have way, way more facts than just hearsay.
Did you also only hear the prosecutor's side and 2 out of 20 witness testimonies?
No one denies there was/is a scandal, that it is bad and that Fr Vassal mishandled it.
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No one denies there was/is a scandal, that it is bad and that Fr Vassal mishandled it.
Then why do you keep saying you're 'open to believing proof' if its shown? Why do you keep calling things hearsay? Do you even know what these terms mean?
There was a scandal. There was silence and a lax attitude by authorities. Said authorities are being replaced. This is fact. This is proof of the scandal. This is not hearsay.
Please read this 5x before responding.
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No one denies there was/is a scandal, that it is bad and that Fr Vassal mishandled it.
Then why do you keep saying you're 'open to believing proof' if its shown? Why do you keep calling things hearsay? Do you even know what these terms mean?
There was a scandal. There was silence and a lax attitude by authorities. Said authorities are being replaced. This is fact. This is proof of the scandal. This is not hearsay.
Please read this 5x before responding.
I am referring to the details and specific allegations all through the thread. Have you read the thread?? What's been said -- with conviction -- about Fr. Vassal? About the boys themselves?
"Oh Fr. Vassal thinks boys need porn."
"Oh really?" Gasp!!
I am going to believe that because ... who said so again?
I believe he mishandled the scandal. I believe he didn't make it a priority. That's as far as I am letting my imagination run. I am not going to convict him of mishandling it because he is lax or careless or has a pattern of enabling sɛҳuąƖ indiscretions (as "proven" because more than one person has had serious problems in the parish over the course of years -- please.) There could be other reasons, like not really knowing what to do or not grasping the gravity or being too close to the problem to see it clearly, being lied to etc... THAT's the stuff we don't know and THAT's the stuff we shouldn't be speculating on.
Do you not understand that anything shared in the "accounts" or in the "mailbag" is hearsay? Anything the members here have attributed to Fr. Vassal as reason for his failure is speculation? The scandal has been confirmed. That is IT. The details, the why, how, when, where, the motives, the causes, the damages etc... are ALL up for debate. They are unconfirmed. Unless you are willing to accept the testimony of whoever decided to put it up on CI as unequivocal, objective truth. And I am not. I'd have to hear the whole story, from everyone, and not-so-unfortunately, that isn't my place. Nor is it yours. Nor anyone else's here.
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What you call "reserved" is actually denial so deep that it is dangerous to children. You are so "reserved" that you won't take notice in time, much less take action in time, to prevent further crimes against children.
In a decade of exposing and fighting the Novus Ordo pederasts and enablers, I fought dozens of "reserved" equivocators like you. You and see-nothing/do-nothing accomplices like you are part of the problem.
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Obviously neither of you have ever had anything to do with me in other threads on the topic. It is a principle in our home that our children are never alone with anyone, even our family members whom we love very much and could never imagine would do any harm to them. They also don't get much "privacy", as in their own rooms, locked doors, excess time alone, private computers/phones etc...
I wish these were society-wide principles. But I've been bashed for that view as well. Too many people would be "offended." I really don't care. If anyone is offended, either a) they WANT time alone with my child and I'll become more suspicious of them or b) they wouldn't harm our children BUT value their own pride above a principle that keeps our children safe, therefore I don't trust their judgment 100% either. Obviously I would not say so to them directly but would simply log the observation away in my mind.
Were we in Post Falls right now, none of our habits would have to change to protect ourselves from whatever is going on. All protections are already in place as far as is humanly possible. The rest we leave to God and our Guardian Angels.
Also, were we in Post Falls, we'd have more direct access to the full story, probably some personal experiences about who is trustworthy in their reporting abilities, and could think and act with more conviction. Half a story vs a whole story is a concept you really have difficulty wrapping your mind around, as is direct experience vs secondhand info.
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As if I need to submit my CV for your kosher stamp of approval to be outspoken on these matters???
Neither I nor any family have been abused, but having helped victims, I became an activist on the issue. I was part of a group of about 30 such Catholic activists in our diocese. As I said, I have been to this 'rodeo' before and dealt with enablers and deep deniers who cared more for the perpetrators than the victims. Indeed I am more disgusted than outraged to find "traditional" Catholics who engage in the same behavior. Surprised? No. Disgusted.
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Lest the thread gets diverted by the tired ploys of the rabbis, it is time for a recapitulation of the problems and the evidence on the SSPX series of perversion scandals and the role of SSPX priests and superiors in making themselves accomplices.
(1) Sloniker's serial pederasty of nearly a dozen children, a problem that continued because the SSPX priests ignored warnings from one victim who was whipped and from parents and failure to recognize Sloniker's "self-circuмcision at the seminary as an early contraindication to his placement with children at camp and in the altar society;
(2) "group masturbation, sodomy, molestation" in the chapel and school, and Fr. Vassal lying to parents about the events;
(3) serial pedophilia by a prominent donor and parishioner, Populous;
(4) a pattern of lying, mental reservations, poor judgment, excuses, and other enabling by the kill-the-messenger SSPX priests and superiors.
Perhaps we should ask Matthew to memorialize the summaries and evidence in a library file with comments disabled so that the enablers cannot obscure the evidence.
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Since October 2015 we have had all we needed to know to sound the alarm: Sloniker's confession and priests (plural) who ignored warnings.
Coeur d’Alene man jailed, suspected of raping and abusing underage boys
A long-haul truck driver from Coeur d’Alene who also served as a church youth camp counselor is suspected of raping and abusing underage boys in Spokane and Kootenai counties over the past decade.
Kevin G. Sloniker, 30, faces felony charges of rape and lewd conduct involving two underage boys and is a suspect in the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of at least eight other boys, according to court docuмents. He’s being held in the Kootenai County Jail on $1 million bond.
Sloniker met and befriended some of the boys in his role as a youth camp counselor at Immaculate Conception Church in Post Falls, according to investigative reports filed with 1st District Court in Kootenai County.
Some of the alleged abuse occurred at Sloniker’s parents’ home in Latah, south of Spokane, and some happened when he took boys on the road with him around the Western U.S., according to court records.
He was arrested on a warrant Sept. 14 in Menomonie, Wisconsin, and extradited to Kootenai County, where he was booked into jail Oct. 9. Sloniker is charged with two counts of felony lewd conduct and one count of felony rape. Additional charges are possible, prosecutors in Kootenai and Spokane counties say.
Sloniker made his first court appearance Friday, when his bond was set by 1st District Magistrate Barry Watson. He does not yet have an attorney.
In an Oct. 9 interview with police, Sloniker admitted to fondling nine boys, having oral sex with a few of them and raping one over the past 10 years. He said he wanted help for an addiction to touching young boys.
Because Sloniker is accused of taking boys across state lines to abuse them, he also may face federal charges.
Sloniker allegedly raped and assaulted one Coeur d’Alene boy repeatedly over the past six years, starting when the victim was about 11 years old and living near Airway Heights, according to a criminal complaint. Sloniker was a family friend and later moved in with the boy’s mother, the victim told a police detective. He also said Sloniker pressured him to bring his two cousins to Sloniker’s apartment so he could molest them as well.
Sloniker also is charged with lewd and lascivious conduct with a 9-year-old boy from Newport, Washington. That boy told detectives Sloniker fondled him during an overnight stay at the suspect’s residence last April.
Witnesses told investigators Sloniker liked to spend time with kids much younger than him and would buy them lavish gifts. He was involved in youth camps at Immaculate Conception Church (you know, the same guy that was kicked out of the seminary for "circuмcizing himself"), which is part of the Society of Saint Pius X, a traditionalist group with no canonical standing in the Roman Catholic Church.
One boy said he attended the church’s Immaculate Conception Academy, and that Sloniker was involved with a group of boys who attended the K-12 school in Post Falls. Sloniker also taught boys how to be altar boys through the Guild of St. Stephen, an international organization of altar servers, investigators learned.
Some parents told police they knew of or strongly suspected the abuse and advised others to keep their kids away from Sloniker. In some cases Sloniker lived for a time with the families of his alleged victims.
One alleged victim told a detective that Sloniker took him on a long trip in his truck through seven Western states when the boy was between 10 and 15 years old. Sloniker sɛҳuąƖly assaulted him repeatedly during the journey, the boy stated.
Another boy said he spent one summer at the Latah farm when he was about 12. Sloniker’s attention escalated to nightly sɛҳuąƖ abuse, and Sloniker also hit him with a whip, he told police.
Several of those interviewed said they reported their concerns to the priests at Immaculate Conception Church. The boy who said he was whipped by Sloniker said he shared that with Father Patrick Crane. He also told the priest that Sloniker made him strip naked.
Crane, who now is with another Society of Saint Pius X church – Our Lady of Sorrows in Phoenix – was interviewed by a detective Sept. 22. He said Sloniker worked with the church camp from 2003 to 2006 and that he did not have any issues with him.
When the detective shared that one of the alleged victims said he had told Crane about Sloniker whipping him, “Crane said he remembers part of it, but it was mostly because (the boy) did not want to attend the camp.”
Crane added that he remembers not asking Sloniker back after that, and also told the detective that if something had been brought forward, he would have said something “because this was during the time the church was being looked into for other abuse allegations across America,” the detective wrote.
Others said they warned Father James Haynos and Father Paul Vassal at the church about Sloniker.
Neither Vassal, the headmaster at the church, nor Crane returned calls for comment Monday.
The detective learned that Sloniker had attended St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary, also part of the Society of St. Pius X, in Winona, Minnesota. Vassal said in an Oct. 2 interview with police that the seminary in 2005 deemed Sloniker to be mentally unstable after he tried to circuмcise himself. He was removed from the seminary program. (but was deemed appropriate as a counsellor and mentor of altar boys).
There were no known incidents of sɛҳuąƖ abuse by Sloniker back then, Vassal told police.
Haynos, who now lives in Kansas, told Coeur d’Alene police Detective Nicholas Lowry he was unaware of the sex abuse allegations against Sloniker. “Haynos also told me due to Sloniker’s unstable mindset he would never be put in a position in which he would be in charge of kids,” the detective wrote.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/oct/26/coeur-dalene-man-jailed-on-1-million-bond-suspecte/
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Lest the thread gets diverted by the tired ploys of the rabbis,
What the hell, dude? Believe it or not, it's possible to make a point without the rabbi routine. A little decorum?
As if your accusations of "sophomoric," "obsessed," and "What the hell, dude" are decorous? Hypocrite. Matthew 6:2, 5; 15:7; 22:18; 23:13, 14, 15, 23, 25, 27, 28, 29; Mark 7:6; Luke 13:15
The tricks of the rabbis—name-calling, diversions, straw man arguments, hypocrisy, fake accounts as a force multiplier, etc.—have been amply demonstrated by those who make themselves accomplices.
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Mark:
Keep it up, Mark. Ignore JPM and a few silly females on this forum. The former, I'm certain, is a lawyer, whose son is an SSPX priest. Of course he's going to defend the sspx.
For me, any authenticity that the Society still possessed; any presence of the Holy Ghost, was all lost in 2008 when +Fellay refused to obey Our Lady's clear instruction to launch the 2nd Rosary Crusade for the Consecration of Russia. She warned then, that if the SG failed to do that, the SSPX was over. SSPX is an empty shell of an organization, with empty leaders, directionless priests, and bewildered faithful, experiencing various levels of spiritual catatonia. The Holy Ghost has said bye-bye to sspx.
BTW, wouldn't you think that the sspx airhead SG could at least use his frequent flyer miles, and get his butt over to Post Falls quick. in order to help deal with the problems there? Couldn't he, perhaps, eliminate from his travel budget a couple of flights to Rome, so that he might visit and console his faithful in this troubled community?
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7/29/16
In response to email to SSPX District Office:
SSPX Webmaster :: Andrew Latham <alatham@sspx.org>
10:16 AM (4 minutes ago)
to me
Dear Sir or Ma’am,
I can tell you that Father has made time all week to visit with whomever in the parish would like a meeting. Additionally, there have already been substantial changes made.
But I will certainly pass along your message. Thank you for taking the time to write!
My warmest regards,
Andrew
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from Andrew at HQ:
I can tell you that Father has made time all week to visit with whomever in the parish would like a meeting. Additionally, there have already been substantial changes made.
What "Father" is he referring to? If Father Wegner, then our understanding was that he was in PF only 7/26. He flew out on 7/27, apparently not having enough time to perform a requested exorcism of the church. So who is this priest with whom the faithful in PF have been meeting "all week?"
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My email was to Fr. Wegner
This was the reply on his behalf.
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Can someone explain to me the seeming apathy of the priests?
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SanS:
My email was to Fr. Wegner
This was the reply on his behalf.
On his behalf or not, Fr. Wegner was not in PF all week.
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SanS:
There is a parishioner woman there who has already performed exorcisms on two other parishioner's homes. The priests have been made aware of it.(they have done nothing)
Maybe she can do the Chapel too. HA
San, our answer is entirely unresponsive to my original question. I don't care a nickle about this "parishioner woman." It's about Wegner, not some "pasishoner woman."
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One of a few leads that were kindly provided to me:
Pädophilie in der Piusbruderschaft: Vertraue deinem Priester
Von Annette Langer
http://m.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/a-1090487.html#spRedirectedFrom=www&referrrer=http://www.stop-pedos-trad.is/wp/index.php/2016/05/
Google translation:
Pedophilia in the SSPX: Trust your priest
By Annette Langer
Little is known about sɛҳuąƖ offenses in the ranks of the ultra-conservative Catholic SSPX. SPIEGEL ONLINE spoke with victims and their relatives - their experience of the Church's "reclamation" is staggering.
The SSPX does much to distinguish itself from the supposed modernist Catholic mainstream. In one but traditionalists and official church dignitaries are remarkably similar: in dealing with sɛҳuąƖ abuse.
"I have to forgive him", says the now 13-year-old Joey * a priest groped him in the dormitory of a boarding school in Brussels under the duvet. The "dirty things" did with him, touched him, as it should do in a child not an adult. The let him kneel in front of him, punished him and humbled. It reported his parents and siblings of the boy.
"Forgiveness? No, it's too early," says Joey's mother with pressed lips. "Because this priest regret nothing." In 2010, it should be according to the parents at first sɛҳuąƖ assault on the then seven-year Joey, his four year older brother Luke * and at least one pupil of the boarding of the SSPX, the then eight-year-old Michael *, come. At a time, then, the Catholic Church shaken as world uncovered abuse scandals in its foundations.
The traditionalist SSPX SSPX short, was founded in 1970 by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. Its members do not feel bound by the decisions of Vatican II, they reject the liturgical reform, an opening to ecuмenism or the recognition of Judaism as a modernist from. Since 1975, the SSPX has no canonical status more - thus carried priestly and episcopal ordinations without Rome's permission. Pope John Paul II. Excommunicated illicitly ordained clergy, Benedict XVI. raised 2009 excommunications on again. Parts of the SSPX are openly anti-Semitic, as it showed the scandal h0Ɩ0cαųst denier Richard Williamson. For the SSPX secularism and atheism are synonymous with mortal sin, the writings of the Enlightenment "heresies". They condemn abortion, contraception, interest rate speculation, equality, ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity and pornography.
The priest from Brussels is said to have made structural changes in the boarding to unobserved with the children to be able to be intimate. The parents report that he has had to brick up a passage through which had previously fled for fear of his advances in a small bathroom the children to shut themselves up there.
In the trial at the Criminal Court of Brussels, the accused had any suspicion of a systematic, planned abuse itself: If anything, he had acted in a state of "Sexsomnie" he said. So subconsciously, sleepwalking, without control of himself.
It is known that invoke some abusers to justice in this type of sleep disorder, only to plead insanity. The appearance of the clergy seemed to sufferers well planned and staged: "He came in and acted as if he were the victim," the mother of Joey and Luke recalls. "He cried and moaned the whole time."
"Speech never ill of a priest"
The wailing would not have been necessary, because the man was acquitted in May 2015 for lack of evidence. "His lawyer has described in court as a liar my son", the applicant, the mother of Michael outraged. For the traditionalist convinced the confrontation was with the abuse also a process of disillusionment.
"In the SSPX to learn to revere the clergy," she says. "Speech never bad about a priest who trust him, show respect." It had taken her a long time to open your eyes. "I was like a child who trusts his parents. It expects not that they want to harm him. We're like a big family." Today the applicant wants only one thing: Prevent the priest again working with children.
(http://cdn1.spiegel.de/images/image-990658-panoV9free-sjop-990658.jpg)
Her son Michael had made a video statement to the police shortly after the display and applicable concrete charges. Joey and Luke but had to wait for an appointment for her statement half a year. The result: Both repressed what happened.
"When it was time, they said nothing, which would have been admissible in court," the mother recalls. "Joey has all denied, Luke has spoken only about Joey and Michael, but not about his own abuse experience." For trauma experts a completely understandable reaction. But a disaster for everyone who wanted to see the priest behind bars.
The psychological consequences of abuse were obvious: For months Joey wrapped at night for fear of attacks in several sheets. The problems in school piled up. Lukes font became smaller and smaller, he had nightmares and started to arm themselves with toy guns, swords, simply everything that could serve his defense.
Once the priest had come at night in the dormitory and had his little brother simply placed and carried over the shoulder, told Luke. The two had disappeared in the clergy office, until now no one knows what happened there. Joey himself just said, "Nothing That's a secret between the Abbe and me I was allowed to eat chocolate..."
Victims have no chance
to provide evidence of an abuse is hard. Silence, false solidarity with the perpetrators or active cover-up by managers ensure regularly that the victims have no chance. Because experience shows that many years need to sacrifice struggle through to a statement, witnesses are often poorly raise or remember only bad.
When Joey desperately turned because of the sɛҳuąƖ assaults on a Catholic sister in the boarding school, did not respond to: "I have it on the ears, I hear so bad," she said later to demand the mother.
"Who knows how many victims are there?", Which asks today. She herself had already in 2010 complained to the former superiors for the Benelux countries, because the priest had made her son unusually expensive gifts and they are already suspicious. The Upper promised to take care of - and did nothing.
As the allegations were concrete, the Fraternity suspended the priest. The parents filed a complaint. After the acquittal in the first instance is now running the appeal process against the priest. Parents have decided to suspend their children no further surveys.
"The SSPX has reacted in this case within 24 hours, suspended this week and immediately handed over to the civil authorities. At the same time, the case was reported to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in Rome," the Brotherhood on request by SPIEGEL ONLINE in a statement.
The reaction came late because: The alleged suspects clergyman was known for years as a potential risk. He was accused in his home country, Switzerland, for pedophilia in a canonical process and acquitted in 2006 for lack of evidence already of 2005. The priests have since exercised a "limited and supervised apostolate," the SSPX on request. Nevertheless, the minister was appointed shortly thereafter calculated at the boarding school in Brussels. And took over the night supervision at the primary school.
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The SSPX has because of their radical views since 1975 no canonical status more and thus no Roman Catholic organization. This means: All priestly and episcopal ordinations carried out without Rome officiate permission and the administration of the Sacraments are illegitimate. Absurdly, treated the official Church traditionalists but as equivalent when it comes to "delicta graviora" who abuse deeds goes.
In May 2015, the Congregation gave the Superior General of the SSPX, Bernard Fellay to speak the mandate, right on abusers in their ranks - even in the cases provided here.
The guardian angel of the Superior General
"This lack of transparency, cover-ups and cronyism is more abetted" says Simon P. *, who comes from a long-established, multi-headed Pius family and himself became the victim of a priest. "A Pius brother sɛҳuąƖly abused me in a 1989 pioneer camp and tried to rape me," P. Eleven years old reported he had been, the pedophiles have a year following him persistently. "The Superior General of the SSPX, Bernard Fellay, has this priest protected for almost 20 years," said his accusation.
P. attended two boarding the SSPX in France, he has absorbed the principles of hardliners in human milk. He was part of the fundamentalist microcosm knows where almost everyone each and networks are reliable and discreet. His case can imagine how devastating it must be for an adolescent, when half of his own family tries to stick to the ideals of closed Pius Society, although their structure has made the unpunished abuse possible.
In 1991, P. wrote his own words a letter to the then Superior General, in which he warned of the over grip priests. But although repeatedly abuse were allegations nothing happened.
Many years later, in July 2008, the Superior General Bernard Fellay responded in a letter, which SPIEGEL ONLINE, the allegations of P. He stated that he had his assistant Niklaus Pfluger transfer the investigation. He also assured the suspects had been "a long time released from working with children and I do not think that there have been more cases."
In fact, the suspect worked full nine years in France undisturbed with minor pioneers from 1993 to 2002 confirming the SSPX. "Father Laurençon, District Superior of the Brotherhood in France since 1996, turned different, increasingly restrictive measures against him. These measures were taken by Mgr. Fellay, Superior General of the Society since 1994, always approved."
"Serious misconduct on our part"
Alone, the measures were obviously not effective: The suspicious priest has a ban on working with children, opposes and describes it as unjust. In a letter to the former Upper Schmidberger the priest wrote in 2005: "It is a weakness that was fleeting, and I regret wholeheartedly you let me resume the priesthood and I've shown what I can to. different places, to the satisfaction of all. "
In the letter the priest trying to show himself in a favorable light, writes the SSPX in a statement. "It leaves aside the fact that it concerned a limited apostolate." It is true that the priest had repeatedly circuмvented the restrictions imposed on him in office. "He often chalked on the behavior of his superiors and saw himself as a notorious victims of their machinations."
"The serious misconduct had on our part that we have not enforced the ban," the Pius investigators Pfluger 2008 says in an interview with the abuse victims P. whose audio copy SPIEGEL ONLINE.
Only after P. has sent a letter of complaint to the CDF in Rome, opened the SSPX in 2012 a canonical process against the priest. The clergyman was sentenced to resigning his positions. He appealed against in Summer 2013 in Rome an appeal.
"Unfortunately, the priest rejected the decisions of ecclesiastical authorities and leave the SSPX", according to the current opinion. The Ex-Pius brother became an associate member of a faction called Resistence to which it belongs and the recalcitrant h0Ɩ0cαųst denier Richard Williamson. The priest establish regular "his work" in the west of France, it is announced on the website of the grouping.
The traditionalists are not just Christian fundamentalists, many are openly anti-Semitic - that we know at least since the scandal Williamson. In Italy found 2013 funeral of the nαzι war criminal Erich Priebke at the Pius brothers instead. Even in the refugee issue they position themselves currently far right - xenophobic and Islamophobic. anyway Corrosive criticism of the liberal Pope Francis is good form.
John Paul II. Urged deep black sheep of the SSPX once the ecclesiastical offside by excommunicated several illicitly ordained clergy. Pope Benedict XVI. lifted 2009 excommunication on again.
recognized SSPX back in the home country of the Pope
And Francis? Seems amazingly intention to begin the arch-conservatives back into the fold of the Church. For the duration of the holy year 2015/2016 the Pope declared unexpected confession within the SSPX legal. "I trust that in the near future solutions can be found to recover full unity with the priests and superiors of the Brotherhood," said the pontiff.
The former District Superior of Germany and Austria, Franz Schmidberger, already saw a "final normalization" of strained relations come - a nightmare for abuse victims, who see it as a reward for cover-up and non-transparent structures.
So Shall the fundamentalists to be domesticated by inclusion? In early April received Francis personally the Superior General Bernard Fellay. For observers an indication that the SSPX could get the status of a personal prelature long as the lay organization Opus Dei. This would mean a canonical recognition, but with the greatest possible autonomy for the fundamentalists.
In Argentina, the home of the Pope, the SSPX has been officially recognized as part of the Catholic Church already April 2015 by the state. used return, had Francis' successor in the office of the Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Mario Aurelio Cardinal Poli. Whether with the blessing or a strongly recommending the pontiff, is not known.
* All names have been changed to protect the person concerned by the editors.
Sadly... more to follow.
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Scandales sexuels chez les traditionalistes
Ca n'arrive pas que chez les "modernistes"
http://www.stop-pedos-trad.is/wp/
Google translation:
sɛҳuąƖ scandals among traditionalists
It does not happen only in "modernist"
About this blog
"We talk about these painful and intolerable subjects [pedophilia by members of the SSPX] also in the priests' retreats in meetings of priests, etc. "
(Letter to Bishop Fellay to a victim)
Amid sex scandals that shook many dioceses and Catholic congregations in the world, we often hear in the traditionalist world, remarks such as: "It does not happen here. All this occurred in the modernist, after Vatican II. " Yet look more closely, it is not so safe as that. As shown in the above quote, the traditionalist world also has its share of sex scandals, pedophiles and others, but some prefer to deny the facts. Maybe not for long.
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If the authorities have identified the problem, why worry, why this blog, why continue to denounce? Is not unnecessarily stir the mud? very relevant question. In fact, it is not enough to be aware of a problem that it is resolved. Two points of major concern remain:
1) If, in recent years, cases of sɛҳuąƖ predation in the traditionalists are sometimes treated better, it is not yet rid of the legacy of the past: old cases still unresolved, suspects priests placed in new positions into contact with children or dissimulation and manipulation of the victims or their families. Bad habits die hard, and it deserves to be denounced.
2) Another aspect too "tradis" veil their faces and simply refuse to see reality. We know concrete examples. These families are prepared to sacrifice their child victims rather than to indict a criminal simply because he is a priest. Others witnesses or hold important clues, sometimes silent for the same reasons.
This blog aims to show that sɛҳuąƖ offenses are a real problem in the clergy, including "traditionalist", so that when new cases will occur (unfortunately), victims, witnesses and families have the courage to speak. If the omerta is perpetuated this heinous crime will live on too. Or victims deserve justice.
There is too much content post it all here, but you can certainly use Google Translate for yourselves.
And… sadly… there is still more to follow.
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Can any of our European readers provide details about the similar, but worse, SSPX pedophile scandals in Ireland and Germany?
Is this an invitation to a Witch Hunt?
It's not appropriate to broaden the scope of this thread on your own initiative.
You realize, of course, that this thread is about the scandal in Post Falls, Idaho. If you want to start a new topic, start a new topic.
Said topic(s) can then be judged -- or even moderated -- based on their own merit.
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No, it is a call for evidence. Besides, whether anyone hunts them or not, witches, pederasts, and their accomplices do exist and do destroy both bodies and souls.
In discussing this problem offline, other activists alerted me to the huge extent of the problem in the SSPX, concealing truly heinous sex attacks against children and adults. Whether the evidence is discussed in this or another thread or now or later when the data are publicized is your call, Matthew.
The irony? The attempts here to minimize, deny, obfuscate, and divert succeeded only in galvanizing the activist network to action.
If you want to refocus on Post Falls, here 'tis:
(1) Sloniker's serial pederasty of nearly a dozen children, a problem that continued because the SSPX priests ignored warnings from one victim who was whipped and from parents and failure to recognize Sloniker's "self-circuмcision at the seminary as an early contraindication to his placement with children at camp and in the altar society;
(2) "group masturbation, sodomy, molestation" in the chapel and school, and Fr. Vassal lying to parents about the events;
(3) serial pedophilia by a prominent donor and parishioner, Populous;
(4) a pattern of lying, mental reservations, poor judgment, excuses, and other enabling by the kill-the-messenger SSPX priests and superiors.
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So first I hear about the boys in an SSPX school sodomizing each other and then that there was a man at an SSPX summer camp sodomizing boys and then that there was an old man raping little girls and now I am hearing that there are other sodomy and sex scandals in other SSPX chapels all over the world. I am feeling very troubled here. Is everyone a pervert nowadays, even traditionalists? I thought the traditional Catholic movement was a safe haven from the perversion that is flooding the rest of the world and now I am learning that the traditional Catholics are perverts just like the rest of them. I ask God "what the hell is going on here?"
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So first I hear about the boys in an SSPX school sodomizing each other and then that there was a man at an SSPX summer camp sodomizing boys and then that there was an old man raping little girls and now I am hearing that there are other sodomy and sex scandals in other SSPX chapels all over the world. I am feeling very troubled here. Is everyone a pervert nowadays, even traditionalists? I thought the traditional Catholic movement was a safe haven from the perversion that is flooding the rest of the world and now I am learning that the traditional Catholics are perverts just like the rest of them. I ask God "what the hell is going on here?"
Well, you thought wrong. Evil finds it's ways into the tiniest and holiest crevices. If priests,monks, and lay men are abusing others; it's because they are allowing evil to control them. Latin Mass and traditional devotions do nothing if you are not willing to fight evil inclinations, and if you're lax in your fight against the demons.
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So first I hear about the boys in an SSPX school sodomizing each other and then that there was a man at an SSPX summer camp sodomizing boys and then that there was an old man raping little girls and now I am hearing that there are other sodomy and sex scandals in other SSPX chapels all over the world. I am feeling very troubled here. Is everyone a pervert nowadays, even traditionalists? I thought the traditional Catholic movement was a safe haven from the perversion that is flooding the rest of the world and now I am learning that the traditional Catholics are perverts just like the rest of them. I ask God "what the hell is going on here?"
Lucifer has already been enthroned in the Vatican. The Novus Ordo has collapsed.
Why would Lucifer ignore the remaining Catholics? He hasn't and won't and that is why the failure of Bp. Fellay's SSPX to fight the evils is such a scandalous horror.
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Why would Lucifer ignore the remaining Catholics? He hasn't and won't and that is why the failure of Bp. Fellay's SSPX to fight the evils is such a scandalous horror.
I wonder about these sodomites. I wonder if they are souls trying to be good but just falling to powerful temptations or if they are truly wicked and only pretend to be good so that they can gain access to young, trusting, innocent victims.
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So first I hear about the boys in an SSPX school sodomizing each other and then that there was a man at an SSPX summer camp sodomizing boys and then that there was an old man raping little girls and now I am hearing that there are other sodomy and sex scandals in other SSPX chapels all over the world. I am feeling very troubled here. Is everyone a pervert nowadays, even traditionalists? I thought the traditional Catholic movement was a safe haven from the perversion that is flooding the rest of the world and now I am learning that the traditional Catholics are perverts just like the rest of them. I ask God "what the hell is going on here?"
Well, you thought wrong. Evil finds it's ways into the tiniest and holiest crevices. If priests,monks, and lay men are abusing others; it's because they are allowing evil to control them. Latin Mass and traditional devotions do nothing if you are not willing to fight evil inclinations, and if you're lax in your fight against the demons.
Consider also that groups like Traditional Catholics are likely seen as easy targets. Easy to infiltrate as they're often desperate for volunteers and employees whose pay is often below average. Easy to manipulate as they think they're in a safe haven. Easy targets as the children, and even adults who've grown up in the SSPX, are often naive to the dangers.
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So first I hear about the boys in an SSPX school sodomizing each other and then that there was a man at an SSPX summer camp sodomizing boys and then that there was an old man raping little girls and now I am hearing that there are other sodomy and sex scandals in other SSPX chapels all over the world. I am feeling very troubled here. Is everyone a pervert nowadays, even traditionalists? I thought the traditional Catholic movement was a safe haven from the perversion that is flooding the rest of the world and now I am learning that the traditional Catholics are perverts just like the rest of them. I ask God "what the hell is going on here?"
Yes I too am wondering - what about the timing ? Hmm ? SSPX does deal with Rome... reminds me of Pope Benedict XVI lifting the excommunications but beforehand +W had been trapped in a taped TV interview that sat on the shelves in Sweden until it could do most damage to the Pope. I am wondering about the timing.... Why is this sewage floating to the top now ? In the case of +W he was set up by the RC Bishop of Sweden (Anders Arborelius) on orders from inside the Vatican according to an inquiry set up by Pope Benedict to find out who was to blame and why.
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The Sloniker horror was first revealed publicly in October 2015. If anything, the revelations seem to be unfolding in slow motion.
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2015/oct/26/coeur-dalene-man-jailed-on-1-million-bond-suspecte/
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Reading this made me feel ill.
Matthew is right - this topic deserves it own thread altogether.
All abuse within the SSPX should see the light of day, just like the Novus Ordo.
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mw:
All abuse within the SSPX should see the light of day, just like the Novus Ordo.
I'm not certain at all that this instance of abuse at ICC/ICA has seen the light of day.
U.S. DSFr. Wegner flies out on July 26. He meets with parents in private all day in separate sessions behind closed doors. He assures them all, privately, that the problem has been taken care of. It's over. End of story.
We hear nothing for five days. All is quiet on the Post Falls front. Wegner is back at sspx HQ. Parents grow quiet. Fellay never leaves the confines of Menzingen, at least to fly to points west. No statement, written or spoken. No known plans to visit the faithful in PF to provide comfort and assurance. No explanations from above. No assignment of responsibility. Silence prevails. The beat goes on.
As you say, just like the Novus Ordo.
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We cannot let our guard down. We must pray, fast, and be eternally vigilant for "the devil like a roaring lion goes about the world seeking whom he may destroy. Resist him firm in the faith." I Peter
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"Who took Johnny", "Missing Johnny" are docuмentaries that will be released soon.
A 30 year old case out of IA. Johnny was a 12 year old newspaper boy, kidnapped. Was seen being tazzered, thrown in a car by men and never seen again. Pornography ring was found. So many thousands and we can not forget mind control. It is very serious when you have porn!!
A few years ago, I remember reading of a very large porn ring of Canada to Europe. A bishop of canada was found with the tortured children porn, the worst that police said they ever saw!
It is an on going fear for especially women and children.
When we decided on Home schooling we thought that our son of age 12 would not like the idea. He was very happy and relieved. Come to find out he told us that boys were winking at him and he was called cute. He knew what they were up to. This was 1990. I was shocked. Why did he not tells us before?
Mind control is taught to anyone who desires to learn. I ran across a woman at our rec center and I brought up the issue of mind control. She told me she knew of it, because she teaches it. I ran out. I took her to be a witch. Witches are proud. I have seen enough of them in our school transportation dept. from top down.
I can't emphasize enough that you see this docuмentary or go online starting at : coast to coast radio.
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"Who took Johnny", "Missing Johnny" are docuмentaries that will be released soon.
A 30 year old case out of IA. Johnny was a 12 year old newspaper boy, kidnapped. Was seen being tazzered, thrown in a car by men and never seen again. Pornography ring was found. So many thousands and we can not forget mind control. It is very serious when you have porn!!
A few years ago, I remember reading of a very large porn ring of Canada to Europe. A bishop of canada was found with the tortured children porn, the worst that police said they ever saw!
It is an on going fear for especially women and children.
When we decided on Home schooling we thought that our son of age 12 would not like the idea. He was very happy and relieved. Come to find out he told us that boys were winking at him and he was called cute. He knew what they were up to. This was 1990. I was shocked. Why did he not tells us before?
Mind control is taught to anyone who desires to learn. I ran across a woman at our rec center and I brought up the issue of mind control. She told me she knew of it, because she teaches it. I ran out. I took her to be a witch. Witches are proud. I have seen enough of them in our school transportation dept. from top down.
I can't emphasize enough that you see this docuмentary or go online starting at : coast to coast radio.
In the '90s one of my best friends was legal adviser to a newly elected sheriff who was working to clean up the ol' boys network. The short version: They thought they had found a child porn ring, but further investigation showed it was actually a statewide child prostitution ring (including a necrophilia specialty ring) that also involved "snuff films" and the clientele involved top level politicians. Some may remember Patrick Purdy, the Stockton schoolyard shooter. Well, it turns out that Purdy had been one of the child prostitutes. Expectedly he was deranged by his horrifying treatment. When he shot up the schoolyard, the politicians had to make it about the gun ("assault weapons"). Some of the biggest mouths screaming about the "assault weapon" could not afford to let there be any attention on Purdy himself. They were customers of the ring. The coverup extended into very high levels. Autopsy reports were falsified. The deputy that was in charge of the Multijurisdictional Drug Task Force was running most of the drugs in the county. My friend's home was firebombed. He died shortly afterwards and his evidence locker, including his duplicate secure location, was emptied and all copies destroyed. Truly satanic stuff.
This and other experiences underscore for me why the SSPX coverups are so important to expose.
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Mark:
This and other experiences underscores for me why the SSPX coverups are so important to expose.
But they probably won't be exposed. The sspx behaves exactly like the NO church when it comes to covering up scandal. This whole ICA scandal has been virtually dropped from the news cycle. The topic is dead!
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"Who took Johnny", "Missing Johnny" are docuмentaries that will be released soon.
A 30 year old case out of IA. Johnny was a 12 year old newspaper boy, kidnapped. Was seen being tazzered, thrown in a car by men and never seen again. Pornography ring was found. So many thousands and we can not forget mind control. It is very serious when you have porn!!
A few years ago, I remember reading of a very large porn ring of Canada to Europe. A bishop of canada was found with the tortured children porn, the worst that police said they ever saw!
It is an on going fear for especially women and children.
When we decided on Home schooling we thought that our son of age 12 would not like the idea. He was very happy and relieved. Come to find out he told us that boys were winking at him and he was called cute. He knew what they were up to. This was 1990. I was shocked. Why did he not tells us before?
Mind control is taught to anyone who desires to learn. I ran across a woman at our rec center and I brought up the issue of mind control. She told me she knew of it, because she teaches it. I ran out. I took her to be a witch. Witches are proud. I have seen enough of them in our school transportation dept. from top down.
I can't emphasize enough that you see this docuмentary or go online starting at : coast to coast radio.
In the '90s one of my best friends was legal adviser to a newly elected sheriff who was working to clean up the ol' boys network. The short version: They thought they had found a child porn ring, but further investigation showed it was actually a statewide child prostitution ring (including a necrophilia specialty ring) that also involved "snuff films" and the clientele involved top level politicians. Some may remember Patrick Purdy, the Stockton schoolyard shooter. Well, it turns out that Purdy had been one of the child prostitutes. Expectedly he was deranged by his horrifying treatment. When he shot up the schoolyard, the politicians had to make it about the gun ("assault weapons"). Some of the biggest mouths screaming about the "assault weapon" could not afford to let there be any attention on Purdy himself. They were customers of the ring. The coverup extended into very high levels. Autopsy reports were falsified. The deputy that was in charge of the Multijurisdictional Drug Task Force was running most of the drugs in the county. My friend's home was firebombed. He died shortly afterwards and his evidence locker, including his duplicate secure location, was emptied and all copies destroyed. Truly satanic stuff.
This and other experiences underscore for me why the SSPX coverups are so important to expose.
Sounds like what happened in Arkansas when Clinton was governor.
There happens to be a child sex ring in the Post Falls area. One was busted five years ago. I'm sure there are others. You would have a hard time believing it's a foul and evil area, but it is. There's more concentrated evil here than there is in a big city. Why? Because it is smaller, more contained, and the odds of any one person becoming a victim are much much greater.
In a five mile radius from where we live, we have 11 registered sex offenders living. That's a lot for a town that appears to be hokey and Gomer Pyle-like.
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Mark: This and other experiences underscores for me why the SSPX coverups are so important to expose.
But they probably won't be exposed. The sspx behaves exactly like the NO church when it comes to covering up scandal. This whole ICA scandal has been virtually dropped from the news cycle. The topic is dead!
If that is so - that everything is business as usual once again at ICC - I have no sympathy for any of them, and I feel sorry for their children.
It's not like they have no other options in the area.
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I for one, can not understand why a sex offender is allowed to live in the community. I try to picture this. Are they workers outside the house? They belong in jail! We have sex offenders in our area of Peoria, AZ. And get this!, they live near schools and playgrounds.
The newspapers state: we have to tell you this, but we don't want to scare you. Is that strange or what?! Honestly, there is a sex offender who is in 2 city blocks of a school east and west and a city play ground at his door step.
I am thinking, why not in jail! I know our Sheriff for Phoenix Arapio would have no troubles putting them in pink underwear in his tents!!
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In the Novus Ordo it was and still is common practice to buy the silence of victims and parents with MONEY.
Is there any evidence that the silence of parents has similarly been PURCHASED at Immaculate Conception Church and Academy?
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In the Novus Ordo it was and still is common practice to buy the silence of victims and parents with MONEY.
Is there any evidence that the silence of parents has similarly been PURCHASED at Immaculate Conception Church and Academy?
Ah, but Menzingen's Dresden based law firm does not advise this!
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrBieKesAWJ5FbSjuuY-6C2Zx0aW-vLdn74HQArRArlPXVygS4)
Es ist unsere Politik und Empfehlung nicht Schweigegeld in sexuellen Missbrauchs Fällen gentiles zu zahlen. Da die тαℓмυd ist es unheilig eine Verschwendung von Geld, um Reparationen an die Gojim machen , die wir Mord und stehlen aus sowieso vergewaltigen kann.
Translation:
It is our policy and recommendation not to pay hush money in sex abuse cases to gentiles. As the тαℓмυd states, it is an unholy waste of money to make reparations to the goyim who we can rape, murder and steal from anyway.
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Mark 79, since the moderator has made it impossible for me to Thumbs Down your comments, consider this post the equivalent.
As far as trying to post a quote from over 35 different pages, it's not worth my time.
Regarding the SSPX response regarding sloniker, it has been noted in public news print that when it was made known to the priests, he was no longer allowed to be associated with the camps.
Sounds like a good response, but then again, that was over 10 years ago.
And the restraint counseled refers to judgement/condemnation before facts are presented, unlike the allegations and assumptions presented herein.
BTW, feel free to dislike this post as I'm sure Mathew will as well. :-P :rahrah:
Really? Man mutiliates his genitals while in the seminary is a huge red flag that this man shouldn't be near children's camp. Everyone knew about this disturbed individual.
Anybody with law enforcement background would have immediately contacted local law enforcement and notified parents; not protect pervert.
Mob mentality? No...more like some of you have novus ordo mentality to worship these priests and the Society while lacking compassion for the victims and families. Nothing was consentual when these young boys were groomed and brainwashed with immoral writings.
These priests are guilty for enabling a pervert.
It is going to get worse sodomists are pushing for laws to lower the age of consent to have sex.
Evil perverts prey on decent innocent holy children.
And don't tell me that we are over reacting. We saw how the novus ordo protected pervert priests transferring to other parishes involved in youth groups where more children were raped and molested.
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You said it, "Law Enforcement". Secret Societies are in all major careers:police, judges, lawyers, psychiatrist you name it, they are there. They wash each others backs.
I knew of a lady, who gave birth to a priests child, and made a police report. And when she went for the report later, it was not there, did not exist.
It is who can you trust? Who do you report to?
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I for one, can not understand why a sex offender is allowed to live in the community. I try to picture this. Are they workers outside the house? They belong in jail! We have sex offenders in our area of Peoria, AZ. And get this!, they live near schools and playgrounds.
The newspapers state: we have to tell you this, but we don't want to scare you. Is that strange or what?! Honestly, there is a sex offender who is in 2 city blocks of a school east and west and a city play ground at his door step.
I am thinking, why not in jail! I know our Sheriff for Phoenix Arapio would have no troubles putting them in pink underwear in his tents!!
They are placed in the community AFTER they do their jail time. You unfortunately cannot keep them in jail forever, and they have to live somewhere, so they end up "in the community".
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As one who usually attends SSPX Masses, and who until ~2009 would have considered himself "an SSPXer," and who was, until I discovered this thread yesterday, thinking very seriously about accepting a high-paying job in Spokane precisely so that I could make my home in Post Falls for the purpose of having access to good schools and a good parish life for my family, I am very grateful to Matthew for disseminating this public information, which nevertheless would not have remained well-known, as it should be. I had a sleepless night because of this thread, and I thank God for His merciful providence, in bringing these disgusting facts to light, so that people can make the decisions and take the actions that their duties to God and their neighbor mandate.
Incidentally, to those who counsel "charity" and "withholding judgment," I think you are being far, far too lenient. I know some Traditionalists can seem paranoid, or blow things out of proportion, but in our fallen modern world, we easily become jaded by constant bombardment, with news of crimes and atrocities of all kinds, worldwide. Even if the crimes of sodomy, self-abuse, and all the rest by the high school boys did not happen, the docuмented facts surrounding the toleration and enabling of wicked men speak for themselves. I do not think I am being too harsh when I say that the appropriate, Catholic measures here should include the public execution of the adult pederast, and the public sentencing of Fr. Vassal to a monastery for at least 10 years, to devote himself to prayer and penance, and to serve as a public warning to all priests of the Society that every priest must, as one of the most essential duties of his priesthood, take seriously and make a real investigation into any allegations of immorality in his chapel, school, summer camp, priory, etc. and punish the perpetrators severely and decisively if it should prove that the allegations are true.
I know that it is important to respect the clergy, and to give them the benefit of the doubt, but often this clerical cult of image is taken too far. The image of the Society (and the Church as a whole) would be far better if priests guilty of crimes or spiritually-criminal negligence were held up and punished, than when all such sins, even when publicly known to some degree, are swept under the rug, and the offenders quietly transferred to another place. The instant something becomes publicly known, the duty to not speak ill of another ceases, and the duty to inform, warm, or condemn error or vice comes to the fore, provided, of course, that it is done in a spirit of charity and not salacious gossip-mongering.
These sorts of things are bound to happen from time to time. Catholics on earth are not yet saints, the Devil tempts good Catholics especially, and when we live in a world where sins of the flesh are rampant and celebrated constantly, some of this influence is bound to creep into our chapels and homes unless we exercise unceasing vigilance. It is also, unfortunately, a disturbing and true fact that, from my experience, sodomites are especially drawn to the aesthetics of the Traditional Mass, as they also are to, for example, the Monarchist movement in France. The pomp, finery, smells&bells, fine vestments, do attract them, in a way that a Novus Ordo, with all the decorum of a town hall meeting, doesn't. So we must be vigilant, wise as serpents, as Our Lord commanded. Unfortunately we are hampered because most Traditionalists are adept at being harmless as doves, but are sadly rather naive, and can't often recognize a fαɢɢօt when he is in their own living room, let alone six pews away at Mass. We too often forget that although we ourselves have good intentions and try to live by the Golden Rule, there are other, wicked people, who do not.
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If anyone here has any doubts about the high prevalence of homos in the Church, they need to read this and educate themselves.
http://anglicanhistory.org/academic/hilliard_unenglish.pdf
UnEnglish and Unmanly: Anglo-Catholicism and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity
by David Hilliard, 1976
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But, I have to ask you - where in Spokane is there a high paying job????? :wink:
I can't say precisely because of privacy concerns :) but I work in a very niche industry and there is an opportunity in Spokane, which I was pursuing because it's not often one finds a job opening in close proximity to good masses, where the cost of living is not exorbitant, the climate (physical and moral) is not seriously objectionable for one reason or another, and the opening is there when one is looking for it. But there will be other opportunities, and I can stay in Prottie-land here in the south for as long as necessary. The 2hr drive to mass does get a bit old though!
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But, I have to ask you - where in Spokane is there a high paying job????? :wink:
I can't say precisely because of privacy concerns :) but I work in a very niche industry and there is an opportunity in Spokane, which I was pursuing because it's not often one finds a job opening in close proximity to good masses, where the cost of living is not exorbitant, the climate (physical and moral) is not seriously objectionable for one reason or another, and the opening is there when one is looking for it. But there will be other opportunities, and I can stay in Prottie-land here in the south for as long as necessary. The 2hr drive to mass does get a bit old though!
The Pacific Northwest is quickly going downhill. In fact, it has gone downhill. It is no longer a safe area. You are safer in a big city. The Spokane/Post Falls area has an exceedingly high property crime rate, a rash of crack, cocaine and heroin addicts and pushers, and a mental illness epidemic.
Stay away. It is an evil area. And I mean that quite sincerely. It is evil.
Offer a Mass in thanksgiving to Our Lord and His Blessed Mother for saving you from making what would have been the worst move you ever made.
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Increasingly I have come to believe that it is a huge mistake to take children directly from high school to the seminary. What wisdom and discernment can such boys have?
To have never held a job, to have never been forced to be "in the world," to go directly from Momma to a life of coddling where there is always a roof and food provided and prepared by adoring parishioners makes for priests that are crippled in understanding the lives of their flocks, too often producing narcissistic punks.
I won't hold my breath for due changes in the formation of priests.
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That's exactly what they are, the twenty-something year olds being among the worst of the worst.
I'm no fan of sspx and Fellay & Co., believe me. But to call these young men "Narcissistic priests" is a bit over the top, IMO.
Look, most of them come out of families who have been associated with sspx for decades. These priests are merely fulfilling,in most cases, the fondest dreams of their sspx parents. They are the good sons, the ones who are doing what their families wanted them to do, the ones who have answered the oft repeated call from sspx pulpits over the years. They can not help it if they've been ill-prepared and inadequately trained in sspx seminaries. They can't automatically add years of life experiences to their resumes. These young men need to be cut a little slack, IMO. Let life deal them some hard blows, and maybe after awhile, some of them will become good and useful priests. Again, I say that as one who has absolutely no use for the Fellay-led SSPX.
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I absolutely agree that lack of life experience is a big contributing factor with these priests. The most capable priests I have ever met are those that have had a job, a career, experience living on their own in the world and making a living, dealing with adversity, before they have entered the seminary.
It shouldn't be necessary, and in the old days perhaps it wasn't so necessary, when family life was harder and involved more work and sacrifice for the whole family, the world was a bit less corrupting, and certainly less complex, and so a man could be adequately trained to cope with it by the time he was in his late teens. Nowadays though, despite the best efforts of Catholic parents who love their children and want them to save their souls, the task of a priest is more Herculean than ever, and a young man of 24 or 26, armed with no practical experience of making ends meet, no exposure to the reality of sin as he learns to associate with the same non-Catholic society his parishioners will be obliged to interact with on a daily basis, and no skill in judging people and character, has little opportunity to develop any of the skills that make a good household manager, personnel director, CEO, accountant, and all the other hats a priest has to wear today by necessity, beyond his biretta. He has 18 years in what is, we hope, a good Catholic home, with good examples and solid character formation, but where he probably doesn't take a big role in helping with the family business from an early age. Then he goes to seminary and spends 6 or 7 years learning a lot about theology and liturgy, which will, everyone hopes, ensure that he doesn't embrace one of a dozen big -ism's. He emerges from all this extremely well-equipped to teach theology and philosophy classes, fairly well-equipped to become a monastic scholar, acceptably prepared to fulfill the strictly spiritual duties of a parish priest, ministering to souls in the pulpit and the confessional, and woefully unprepared to deal with the temporal realities asked of him, to administer a modern parish, direct it's school, and so forth.
It's no surprise these perversions happen, and are allowed to continue, in that context. It's always easier to be conservative, preserve the status quo, close the ranks, and proceed slowly, if at all, instead of taking decisive action. And a slow, deliberate, methodical approach goes hand in hand with secrecy, giving us the classic "sweep it all under the rug" approach. A company that ran its operations thus would not survive, but the Church can get away with it because She has a monopoly on the most important product in the world: eternal salvation. Hence even if her priests are terrible, they usually don't have to tighten their belts. In the meantime though, errors and sins flourish, because the current system is much more geared toward producing good medieval parish priests (who didn't have to worry about much except teaching their flock well and managing the housekeeper) than the bureaucrats and administrators we need today.
Obviously there's almost squat we or the SSPX can do about this nowadays, as it's a problem that can only be resolved by a complete reconversion of society and a massive flourishing of orthodox religious orders. Be that as it may, the priests are obliged to do what they can. Some of them do it reasonably well, some fall flat. I do think, however, that old fashioned aloof clericalism of the autocratic Menzingen style does not help matters at all.
-
...
To have never held a job, to have never been forced to be "in the world," to go directly from Momma to a life of coddling where there is always a roof and food provided and prepared by adoring parishioners makes for priests that are crippled in understanding the lives of their flocks, too often producing narcissistic punks.
I won't hold my breath for due changes in the formation of priests.
While this is not a global indictment, Our Lady of Sorrows has been saddled with two young and brash pastors. Really, what gall for a young priest who has never held a job, who has his meals cooked for him, who has a huge support network behind him, and who has no worry about paying for the roof over his head chiding parishioners about their donations... in a collapsing economy to boot. "Too busy"? Hardly. No "people skills."
-
Meg
Has Mark 79 ever set foot anywhere near an SSPX chapel? I doubt it. So why the extreme interest in the SSPX?
I happen to know that he has, but why exactly do you doubt it?
He's never mentioned any personal connection to the SSPX at all. A lot of us here have previously attended SSPX chapels, including myself.
Not to worry, though. Matthew will probably remove my posts here later this morning, like he did the last time I nagged Mark 79 with too many questions. Your boy is safe enough.
I attended SSPX for about 3 years in Philadelphia area and left when Fr Crane became pastor.
Priests don't last long in Philadelphia area.
Hopefully, things have improved with new lay leadership and Father Byrnes.
Both Mark and Mathew talk with sense.
-
Increasingly I have come to believe that it is a huge mistake to take children directly from high school to the seminary. What wisdom and discernment can such boys have?
Answering the objection (“You do not know the world.”) for waiting instead of immediately pursuing a religious vocation, Fr. Doyle, S.J. (https://isidore.co/calibre/browse/book/2941) writes in his excellent guide Vocations (http://sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X/Vocations/Vocations.htm):I know it [the world] is my worst foe, the friend and helper of my deadly enemy, Satan, and a danger I should fear and fly from.
To have never held a [worldly/secular] job, to have never been forced to be "in the world [that Satan rules],"
…is a great blessing.
-
Increasingly I have come to believe that it is a huge mistake to take children directly from high school to the seminary. What wisdom and discernment can such boys have?
Answering the objection (“You do not know the world.”) for waiting instead of immediately pursuing a religious vocation, Fr. Doyle, S.J. (https://isidore.co/calibre/browse/book/2941) writes in his excellent guide Vocations (http://sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X/Vocations/Vocations.htm):I know it [the world] is my worst foe, the friend and helper of my deadly enemy, Satan, and a danger I should fear and fly from.
To have never held a [worldly/secular] job, to have never been forced to be "in the world [that Satan rules],"
…is a great blessing.
No, actually people really do need to know what sort of world they live in...no avoiding truth and reality...how do you expect they will be able to function successfully in society otherwise????
One can live in the world as it is and still remain Catholic. Is it difficult? Perhaps. But who ever said life was easy?
-
In the midst of these discussions, I was asked about a particular problem in Europe. I sought details from among the activists and received this reply:
Dear Sir or Madam – This is a rough translation of an article that I have on file of the Abbet SSPX Case. I have not had time to work on this case yet but am passing it to you via [Mark79] for your information. You may already have it. [sender's name deleted]
http://www.stop-pedos-trad.is/wp/index.php/2015/09/10/abbe-a-mele-a-une-affaire-de-pedophilie-des-sa-premiere-annee-de-sacerdoce/
*** The priest is SSPX Father Frederick Abbet
Switzerland, Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) is a product of the traditionalist middle of the Lower Valais. His mother, born L. (censored mention by the SSPX), is indeed the daughter of the L. (censored mention by the SSPX), former prosecutor of the Lower Valais, a lay people responsible for the purchase buildings of Ecône. Moreover, his uncle Fr. L. (censored mention by SSPX) is an iconic Swiss SSPX priest. Suffice to say that it comes from a true "dynasty" of Valais traditionalism. Moreover, his family through the force of things very close to that of Bishop Fellay, since he grew up in Riddes, the village which includes the hamlet of Ecône.
Ordained a priest in June 2004, Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) is first sent in Argentina, in the school of the child Jesus, in La Reja, in the province of Buenos Aires. According to the official version, his temperament proves unsuitable to the Argentine reality, so it is cut short. But how is strange: his departure is controlled by overriding reasons if he has to leave the school urgently just before Christmas, without waiting for the closing ceremony of the academic year (austral summer holidays begin Christmas). So he is then removed from Argentina, first to Colombia (first aid measure of Father Bouchacourt, each District superior can move freely on its territory any priest entrusted to it), then just follows months of a strange and tortuous route: Madrid, Flavigny, St. Nicolas du Chardonnet, all informally, without these mutations being reported in the "Cor unum". Curious that he walks informally, systematically into positions without contact with children, an individual whose only problem is, it seems, to be unsuitable for the Argentine mentality.
In July 2005, Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) was participating in a summer camp in the town of Evolène (Valais) and is accused of pedophilia by the family of one of the boys. There follows a canonical trial within the SSPX, the judge, Bishop Tissier de Mallerais acquitted him in June 2006, believing the evidence insufficient. However, Bishop Fellay estimates the disturbing facts sufficient to impose a disciplinary measure rather specific: a ban for 10 years from any contact with children. That such a decision is imposed means that, in the spirit of Bishop Fellay, the acquittal was probably due more to a lack of evidence that the innocence of the accused. In other words, the superior general said that caution was in order vis-à-vis a highly suspicious individual, who was to remain under supervision. Ah, the good general full of excellent caution! Yes ... but only 2 months later (August 2006), Bishop Fellay calls this same abbot A. (censored mention by SSPX) to Brussels, to a priory home under the same roof and even a primary school dormitory !! That is how to avoid being in contact with children for 10 years ?? "Sure," Bishop Fellay sends his ban by writing to Fr. Jürgen Wegner, a German, the then prior of Brussels. Accordingly, Abbot A. Wegner has apostates with Children: 09/2006 in its district letter he writes: "Fr. Abbet assists me for many administrative tasks." Only problem is that Father Jürgen is forced to spend more than half of his time outside Brussels, since it is also higher, not 1 but 3 countries! He is superior Benelux district. In France, to us, the size of these three small countries might sound ridiculous but if we look at the figures, we see that the Benelux (75 000km²) is greater than Brittany and PACA region together. This is not negligible, and the Superior of such a grouping can obviously not remain permanently at the priory where he is also the local superior. This, Menzingen, who created the District of 3 countries, obviously knew. In other words, the General House knowingly confided to the Superior of the Benelux a mission impossible: keep an eye A. (censored mention by SSPX). But, of course, as a clerical habit well established in case of new "slippage" of the priest he would still be possible to show the letter of instructions and say "this is not the fault of Menzingen; instructions were given to the Superior of Brussels'. The mitred cowardice is a long tradition in the episcopate.
Should we then wonder what happened? In 2011 the abbot A. (censored mention by SSPX) is accused of "indecent assault with violence or threats" against several children Dutch and French national school SSPX Brussels, located in the same place that the Priory in the Eendracht Street. procedure described by the complainants: suck the penis of boys. And let no one accuse us of writing offensive things: what is shocking, it is these despicable acts, not the fact to denounce! Rather, it is helpful for parents to be aware that these things exist in the "middle tradition" and that we must be on guard. Anyway, Bishop Fellay can be proud: it has deliberately endangered dozens of children. Meanwhile, Fr. Jürgen Wegner was replaced by Father Benedict Wailliez and the latter also Superior of 3 countries could not spend all his time in Brussels. Like his predecessor, it was impossible to keep at eye Abbe A. (censored mention by SSPX).
Several children school of Valais testify against the priest and a criminal trial was held in Belgium in 2014. Again, Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) is acquitted for lack of evidence. One wonders what it takes to convict a pedophile suspect: ask him politely if he accepts being followed by a camera so that there is "sufficient evidence"? In any case, appeal was filed and waiting for a new trial.
This raises many questions, it is the behavior of the SSPX. On one hand, when Bishop Fellay wrote in April 2012 in one of the families, he takes some guilt for his countryman: "That a priest could perform such vile acts against children fills us with shame" then he provides support: "Even if a few words can erase the harm [...], these lines want to accompany you in this event and tell you how we would best help you." But in fact the families do not see anything happen. On the contrary, the General House as well as the Brussels priory hide information from families who, had they known, would have probably prevented the families losing their first trial. Parents are not informed of the troubled past of A. (censored mention by SSPX) in Argentina and Switzerland. It is careful not to say that Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) regularly sent money in Latin America ... "for children and their families." Think well: if it had been at known in time, such information could guide the investigation. Furthermore, nothing has been done to dig the next track: the year prior to the events is the subject of a criminal complaint, Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) had already often in the dormitory of the boarding school (while having prohibition "strict" to be in contact with children!) and going from bed to bed to "talk" with the boys. One of these students began a few months later, to touch their genitals in public. Faced with such information, this student's parents reacted by a total denial and face a situation as suspicious or the seat of the district nor the General House have sought to dig! Afraid to find ... More still: like Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) had ministered in part to Namur, Brussels some parents have expressed the desire to make contact with Namur parents to see if anything odd had happened there. Menzingen reassured them on the air: "Do not do anything, we take care of." Now these relatives Brussels realized later that no research had been conducted to Namur. Is it any wonder then that the families feel cheated? Why act as if there is nothing to hide? SSPX would she fear that these tracks make progress in the investigation?
>
> Even more shocking: at every court hearing of Abbot A. (censored mention by the SSPX), Bishop Fellay sent to Brussels his private secretary Raphael Granges, accompanying the abbot A. (censored mention by SSPX) to the entrance of the courthouse, and then disappears. Why hide that? Yes, hide because when the abbot Granges coming to Brussels, he does not meet the families of child victims, he did not even lodge the SSPX priory, and he comes in civilian clothes. However, he is in conversation with Father A. (censored mention by SSPX). After that, we will be told that Menzingen is white as snow and has nothing to hide ... Let's stop taking people for which remained: someone who has nothing to hide acts otherwise. "He that is upright come to the light for all to see that his works are of God" (John 3, 20).
>
> In short, Bishop Fellay therefore sends in secret his right arm in Brussels at each session of the trial, to speak with the accused A. (censored mention by SSPX) and then slip away under the guise of its civilian clothes (the abbot Granges being somewhat public and little known figure, he hoped not to be identified clearly by coming without cassock). Moreover, it is crucial to know that Father Granges has worked in a law firm before entering the seminary. And, coincidentally, he is a native of Riddes, the village where is Écône and, like A. (censored mention by SSPX) and Fellay, his family is part of the "club" of tradi families of the Lower Valais . And with that, Bishop Fellay probably pretends that his private secretary does not provide legal aid to Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) to be acquitted? Is this the same Fellay who wrote to families: "We would better help you" ...
Furthermore, we must pinch when we see who is the lawyer of A. (censored mention by SSPX): Master Kennes. This is one of the greatest lawyers of Belgium, unaffordable for any "normal" person. Who pays the fees Kennes master? But above all, we must know that Kennes master is the No. 2 in the Uyttendaele cabinet. Marc Uyttendaele is a Belgian master equivalent Vergès: probably the biggest size of all lawyers in the kingdom. Decidedly, the SSPX does not skimp on the means to assist its priests! Of course, in parallel, it is careful not to help families afford a lawyer the same size. But that does not stop the beautiful words to the parents: "We would better help you." Then, ah, what a pity, parents have lost at trial.
With this, it is not surprising that families of children have lost confidence in Bishop Fellay. At the beginning of the scandal, some of them nevertheless believed the eyes closed and were offended one can doubt his word. Four years later, the families have been disappointed. Some, disgusted, are likely to give up. Only a couple of parents still want to believe it and tried somehow to keep a tenuous dialogue with Bishop Fellay.
Let us return to the master of personality Uyttendaele, who co-directs master Kennes a common practice. Marc Uyttendaele is an unsavory character for a Catholic, even more so for a priest, husband of Laurette Onkelinx, Ségolène Royal Belgian, this lawyer uses his wife's function to "shopping" in the Belgian ministries and councils, for get maximum 'markets', that is to say get juicy litigation files, in many administrations. As ethics do little embarrassed, he was involved in several scandals about it.
To choose as his defense a firm of such a character is saying a lot about his own morality: "Tell me who your friends are, I will tell you who you are." In addition, master Uyttendaele is a professor at the university, a Belgian university notoriously Masonic identity. Socialist, as we have seen, it doubles as a laïcard "eater of priests" (except, oddly, when the "priest" in question is accused of pedophilia). How can a priest he contact the office of such a person? It is a scandal in the evangelical sense, a cause of falling for souls. Curiously, Bishop Fellay, who had ordered Bishop Williamson to challenge his lawyer, "because of scandal," do not fault the firm chosen by Father A. (censored mention by SSPX). Two weights, two measures…
>
> Obviously, Father Granges, the legal secretary of Bishop Fellay, fort to do when it comes secretly in Brussels. Is that the stakes are high for the SSPX: whether Abbot A. (censored mention by SSPX) is acquitted on appeal, it will be deemed innocent and Bishop Fellay not be worried for deliberately endangering children (to have placed a person suspected of pedophilia under the same roof as a boarding school). Wailliez and Father, who did nothing when a mother of victim informed him of very specific suspicions of pedophilia on the Abbé A. (censored mention by the SSPX), can also sleep soundly . In other words, if the abbot A. (censored mention by SSPX) is cleared on appeal, it is also superior general and the Belgian SSPX will be "clean".
Moreover, even if the appeal led to a condemnation of Valais, we must know that Father Waillez was transferred to Sri Lanka this summer 2015. By chance, far away from Europe and almost out of reach cooperation judiciary. It is thus clear that Bishop Fellay starts to maneuver his private secretary-lawyer. In contrast, less well understood why then, in 2012, he did not question the guilt of Father A. (censored mention by the SSPX), and promised to families to help them. "Words, words, words," said Shakespeare. Actions speak louder than words.
-
By now the pattern of cover-up, malfeasance, and the same faces of the enablers should be clear.
-
Jeepers! Two holey "Bernards" with masonic legal expertise, succeed at pedophile cover-ups?
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGsQ5rLKjb0s5T9KQptQ2Fh5xcGgjd03rTJ6_3qRerGmJ9WnvXbw)
Bernard Law of Boston
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSRtQUzJ1I57IaUL4pZ5tgvnK4oj3ioOQrcclqlOID2W3wECJ5D)
Bernard Fellay of Econe
Who would have thunk it ? :wink:
-
http://www.stop-pedos-trad.is/wp/index.php/2015/09/10/abbe-a-mele-a-une-affaire-de-pedophilie-des-sa-premiere-annee-de-sacerdoce/
*** The priest is SSPX Father Frederick Abbet
Switzerland, Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) is a product of the traditionalist middle of the Lower Valais. His mother, born L. (censored mention by the SSPX), is indeed the daughter of the L. (censored mention by the SSPX), former prosecutor of the Lower Valais, a lay people responsible for the purchase buildings of Ecône. Moreover, his uncle Fr. L. (censored mention by SSPX) is an iconic Swiss SSPX priest. Suffice to say that it comes from a true "dynasty" of Valais traditionalism. Moreover, his family through the force of things very close to that of Bishop Fellay, since he grew up in Riddes, the village which includes the hamlet of Ecône.
Ordained a priest in June 2004, Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) is first sent in Argentina, in the school of the child Jesus, in La Reja, in the province of Buenos Aires. According to the official version, his temperament proves unsuitable to the Argentine reality, so it is cut short. But how is strange: his departure is controlled by overriding reasons if he has to leave the school urgently just before Christmas, without waiting for the closing ceremony of the academic year (austral summer holidays begin Christmas). So he is then removed from Argentina, first to Colombia (first aid measure of Father Bouchacourt, each District superior can move freely on its territory any priest entrusted to it), then just follows months of a strange and tortuous route: Madrid, Flavigny, St. Nicolas du Chardonnet, all informally, without these mutations being reported in the "Cor unum". Curious that he walks informally, systematically into positions without contact with children, an individual whose only problem is, it seems, to be unsuitable for the Argentine mentality.
In July 2005, Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) was participating in a summer camp in the town of Evolène (Valais) and is accused of pedophilia by the family of one of the boys. There follows a canonical trial within the SSPX, the judge, Bishop Tissier de Mallerais acquitted him in June 2006, believing the evidence insufficient. However, Bishop Fellay estimates the disturbing facts sufficient to impose a disciplinary measure rather specific: a ban for 10 years from any contact with children. That such a decision is imposed means that, in the spirit of Bishop Fellay, the acquittal was probably due more to a lack of evidence that the innocence of the accused. In other words, the superior general said that caution was in order vis-à-vis a highly suspicious individual, who was to remain under supervision. Ah, the good general full of excellent caution! Yes ... but only 2 months later (August 2006), Bishop Fellay calls this same abbot A. (censored mention by SSPX) to Brussels, to a priory home under the same roof and even a primary school dormitory !! That is how to avoid being in contact with children for 10 years ?? "Sure," Bishop Fellay sends his ban by writing to Fr. Jürgen Wegner, a German, the then prior of Brussels. Accordingly, Abbot A. Wegner has apostates with Children: 09/2006 in its district letter he writes: "Fr. Abbet assists me for many administrative tasks." Only problem is that Father Jürgen is forced to spend more than half of his time outside Brussels, since it is also higher, not 1 but 3 countries! He is superior Benelux district. In France, to us, the size of these three small countries might sound ridiculous but if we look at the figures, we see that the Benelux (75 000km²) is greater than Brittany and PACA region together. This is not negligible, and the Superior of such a grouping can obviously not remain permanently at the priory where he is also the local superior. This, Menzingen, who created the District of 3 countries, obviously knew. In other words, the General House knowingly confided to the Superior of the Benelux a mission impossible: keep an eye A. (censored mention by SSPX). But, of course, as a clerical habit well established in case of new "slippage" of the priest he would still be possible to show the letter of instructions and say "this is not the fault of Menzingen; instructions were given to the Superior of Brussels'. The mitred cowardice is a long tradition in the episcopate.
Should we then wonder what happened? In 2011 the abbot A. (censored mention by SSPX) is accused of "indecent assault with violence or threats" against several children Dutch and French national school SSPX Brussels, located in the same place that the Priory in the Eendracht Street. procedure described by the complainants: suck the #### of boys. And let no one accuse us of writing offensive things: what is shocking, it is these despicable acts, not the fact to denounce! Rather, it is helpful for parents to be aware that these things exist in the "middle tradition" and that we must be on guard. Anyway, Bishop Fellay can be proud: it has deliberately endangered dozens of children. Meanwhile, Fr. Jürgen Wegner was replaced by Father Benedict Wailliez and the latter also Superior of 3 countries could not spend all his time in Brussels. Like his predecessor, it was impossible to keep at eye Abbe A. (censored mention by SSPX).
Several children school of Valais testify against the priest and a criminal trial was held in Belgium in 2014. Again, Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) is acquitted for lack of evidence. One wonders what it takes to convict a pedophile suspect: ask him politely if he accepts being followed by a camera so that there is "sufficient evidence"? In any case, appeal was filed and waiting for a new trial.
This raises many questions, it is the behavior of the SSPX. On one hand, when Bishop Fellay wrote in April 2012 in one of the families, he takes some guilt for his countryman: "That a priest could perform such vile acts against children fills us with shame" then he provides support: "Even if a few words can erase the harm [...], these lines want to accompany you in this event and tell you how we would best help you." But in fact the families do not see anything happen. On the contrary, the General House as well as the Brussels priory hide information from families who, had they known, would have probably prevented the families losing their first trial. Parents are not informed of the troubled past of A. (censored mention by SSPX) in Argentina and Switzerland. It is careful not to say that Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) regularly sent money in Latin America ... "for children and their families." Think well: if it had been at known in time, such information could guide the investigation. Furthermore, nothing has been done to dig the next track: the year prior to the events is the subject of a criminal complaint, Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) had already often in the dormitory of the boarding school (while having prohibition "strict" to be in contact with children!) and going from bed to bed to "talk" with the boys. One of these students began a few months later, to touch their genitals in public. Faced with such information, this student's parents reacted by a total denial and face a situation as suspicious or the seat of the district nor the General House have sought to dig! Afraid to find ... More still: like Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) had ministered in part to Namur, Brussels some parents have expressed the desire to make contact with Namur parents to see if anything odd had happened there. Menzingen reassured them on the air: "Do not do anything, we take care of." Now these relatives Brussels realized later that no research had been conducted to Namur. Is it any wonder then that the families feel cheated? Why act as if there is nothing to hide? SSPX would she fear that these tracks make progress in the investigation?
>
> Even more shocking: at every court hearing of Abbot A. (censored mention by the SSPX), Bishop Fellay sent to Brussels his private secretary Raphael Granges, accompanying the abbot A. (censored mention by SSPX) to the entrance of the courthouse, and then disappears. Why hide that? Yes, hide because when the abbot Granges coming to Brussels, he does not meet the families of child victims, he did not even lodge the SSPX priory, and he comes in civilian clothes. However, he is in conversation with Father A. (censored mention by SSPX). After that, we will be told that Menzingen is white as snow and has nothing to hide ... Let's stop taking people for which remained: someone who has nothing to hide acts otherwise. "He that is upright come to the light for all to see that his works are of God" (John 3, 20).
>
> In short, Bishop Fellay therefore sends in secret his right arm in Brussels at each session of the trial, to speak with the accused A. (censored mention by SSPX) and then slip away under the guise of its civilian clothes (the abbot Granges being somewhat public and little known figure, he hoped not to be identified clearly by coming without cassock). Moreover, it is crucial to know that Father Granges has worked in a law firm before entering the seminary. And, coincidentally, he is a native of Riddes, the village where is Écône and, like A. (censored mention by SSPX) and Fellay, his family is part of the "club" of tradi families of the Lower Valais . And with that, Bishop Fellay probably pretends that his private secretary does not provide legal aid to Father A. (censored mention by SSPX) to be acquitted? Is this the same Fellay who wrote to families: "We would better help you" ...
Furthermore, we must pinch when we see who is the lawyer of A. (censored mention by SSPX): Master Kennes. This is one of the greatest lawyers of Belgium, unaffordable for any "normal" person. Who pays the fees Kennes master? But above all, we must know that Kennes master is the No. 2 in the Uyttendaele cabinet. Marc Uyttendaele is a Belgian master equivalent Vergès: probably the biggest size of all lawyers in the kingdom. Decidedly, the SSPX does not skimp on the means to assist its priests! Of course, in parallel, it is careful not to help families afford a lawyer the same size. But that does not stop the beautiful words to the parents: "We would better help you." Then, ah, what a pity, parents have lost at trial.
With this, it is not surprising that families of children have lost confidence in Bishop Fellay. At the beginning of the scandal, some of them nevertheless believed the eyes closed and were offended one can doubt his word. Four years later, the families have been disappointed. Some, disgusted, are likely to give up. Only a couple of parents still want to believe it and tried somehow to keep a tenuous dialogue with Bishop Fellay.
Let us return to the master of personality Uyttendaele, who co-directs master Kennes a common practice. Marc Uyttendaele is an unsavory character for a Catholic, even more so for a priest, husband of Laurette Onkelinx, Ségolène Royal Belgian, this lawyer uses his wife's function to "shopping" in the Belgian ministries and councils, for get maximum 'markets', that is to say get juicy litigation files, in many administrations. As ethics do little embarrassed, he was involved in several scandals about it.
To choose as his defense a firm of such a character is saying a lot about his own morality: "Tell me who your friends are, I will tell you who you are." In addition, master Uyttendaele is a professor at the university, a Belgian university notoriously Masonic identity. Socialist, as we have seen, it doubles as a laïcard "eater of priests" (except, oddly, when the "priest" in question is accused of pedophilia). How can a priest he contact the office of such a person? It is a scandal in the evangelical sense, a cause of falling for souls. Curiously, Bishop Fellay, who had ordered Bishop Williamson to challenge his lawyer, "because of scandal," do not fault the firm chosen by Father A. (censored mention by SSPX). Two weights, two measures…
>
> Obviously, Father Granges, the legal secretary of Bishop Fellay, fort to do when it comes secretly in Brussels. Is that the stakes are high for the SSPX: whether Abbot A. (censored mention by SSPX) is acquitted on appeal, it will be deemed innocent and Bishop Fellay not be worried for deliberately endangering children (to have placed a person suspected of pedophilia under the same roof as a boarding school). Wailliez and Father, who did nothing when a mother of victim informed him of very specific suspicions of pedophilia on the Abbé A. (censored mention by the SSPX), can also sleep soundly . In other words, if the abbot A. (censored mention by SSPX) is cleared on appeal, it is also superior general and the Belgian SSPX will be "clean".
Moreover, even if the appeal led to a condemnation of Valais, we must know that Father Waillez was transferred to Sri Lanka this summer 2015. By chance, far away from Europe and almost out of reach cooperation judiciary. It is thus clear that Bishop Fellay starts to maneuver his private secretary-lawyer. In contrast, less well understood why then, in 2012, he did not question the guilt of Father A. (censored mention by the SSPX), and promised to families to help them. "Words, words, words," said Shakespeare. Actions speak louder than words.
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.... I am tired of hearing about this particular scandal. ...
Imagine how "tired" the boys were of being sodomized. Imagine how tired the boys and parents were of their warnings being ignored by SSPX priests.
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Mark:
Imagine how "tired" the boys were of being sodomized. Imagine how tired the boys and parents were of their warnings being ignored by SSPX priests.
Yeah. Imagine how tired the parishioners of Pilar's old parish might have been to have heard the ICC scandals repeatedly mentioned. After all, according to Pilar, it must have been old hat for them. I mean, let's move on! :laugh1:
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.... I am tired of hearing about this particular scandal. ...
HOW OUTRAGEOUS!
Aw, poor you, Pilar!
It must be such a nuisance to have to hear about boys being sodomized.
You should be thankful it wasn't one of your kids!
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"Who Took Johnny" docuмentary of a kidnapped boy for porn and more. On amazon to order/ to watch. The boy's picture on a milk carton.
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I’m still bothered by Pilar’s attitude. The Protestants, (I was one), often accuse Catholics of being tolerant of sin. After all, say many Protestants, all the Catholic has to do is go to confession, get absolved, and then go out and commit the same sins again.
Is this how Catholics, (e.g. the first families) in Pilar’s old parish behaved? I would gather as much from Pilar’s words. Safe to say, St. Paul would not have tolerated such behavior among the members of a Catholic congregation, though he reluctantly conceded that it had to be tolerated in society at large.
I Cor. 5:9, 10” I wrote to you in the letter not to associate with the immoral,( I.e. in your midst) Not meaning, of course, the immoral of this world, or the covetous, or the greedy, or idolators; otherwise you would have to leave the world…”
But, it seems, immorality among some Catholics in Pilar’s old parish was just a fact of life that one had to live with. Apparently, that was the attitude of the prior at ICC in Post Falls too.
In the letter to the Ephesians, St. Paul writes: “But immorality and every uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as becomes saints…”(5:3)
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I’m still bothered by Pilar’s attitude. The Protestants, (I was one), often accuse Catholics of being tolerant of sin. After all, say many Protestants, all the Catholic has to do is go to confession, get absolved, and then go out and commit the same sins again.
Protestants say that yes, but you might mention that it is not true. In order for your confession to be valid, the Catholic MUST have the intention to TRY not to sin again.
Many Protestants say since Christ died for our sins, and as Luther said, "go and sin boldly." Is this what is happening?
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Recently listened to a 1955 lecture by Bp. Fulton Sheen on MacBeth.
He said the play describes two human ages: One of Repentance and one of Denial.
We live in a "MacBethian" age of the Denial of Sin.
The xSPX is an example of this:
They deny their sins of pastoral mis-management, while demonstrating their priorities are the avoidance of lawsuits and bad PR,
versus the interests of their children, families and the integrity of their Catholic school.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1882913245/macbeth-e-lady-macbeth1.jpg)
The MacBeths
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mw:
It's scary that these types care more about that than caring about legal action against the PERPETRATORS. That is a DIABOLICAL disorientation of right and wrong.
More than scary, it's terribly disappointing that sspx types, who might argue that they are on the cutting edge of true "traditional" Catholic praxis, are no more enlightened theologically or advanced morally than the dullest members the fallen and despised Novus Ordo church. Maybe it's time to become Lutherans.
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Lady MaryJane and Lover of Popped corn... now you're talkin! :ready-to-eat:
"Lawsuit" Why that's the greatest idea yet on this topic!
Lawsuit is a two-edged sword, and wouldn't it be so interesting to see Fr. Vassal on the witness stand?
How about a lawsuit against the SSPX for their lies, cover-ups and endangerment of their school children?
(http://www.kxly.com/image/view/-/36083198/highRes/1/-/maxh/640/maxw/640/-/11xpifp/-/Kevin-Sloniker-in-court.jpg)
And of course, there's already a lot of evidence, sworn testimonies and precedence to the ICA crimes.
I can see the beads of perspiration coming out on Father Wegner's bald head.
Gentle ladies... Thank you again for this legal inspiration...! :wink:
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Following up on my last post. I showed this whole discussion to a relative who practices law in another city in Idaho. He's not Traditional Catholic but not against us. He agreed with what I said about the theater teacher. He said a judge would find that whole thing really interesting. Did any of the perverted acts happen on trips? At play rehearsals or at the auditorium? Did they involve kids who were "the favorites" or the big roll players in the plays? Did it include the ones who dressed like girls? And by the way, back to what my son said about Billy Budd--Google "Herman Melville gαy" and see what happens. I heard that SSPX schools read Oscar Wilde books because he repented and became Catholic at the end. Why are we reading Melville and making our kids cross dress?
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Now we're getting traction.
Let's lay the whole ICA story on the table. Shop some personal injury attorneys and see what they can come up with?
(http://washington.wattelandyork.com/wp-content/themes/wattelyork/images/792x225xinternalimage.jpg.pagespeed.ic.hJhFisqsl-.webp)
SEATTLE PERSONAL INJURY CLAIMS
Personal injury refers to the area of law that seeks to protect victims who are harmed (caused personal injury or wrongful death) by the negligence of another person or entity. Negligence is defined as the failure to act with the prudence that a reasonable person, under the same circuмstances, would have exercised. Negligence occurs when a defendant’s conduct imposes an unreasonable risk upon another, which results in personal injury or wrongful death to that person. Every person has a legal duty which requires that he or she conduct himself according to a certain standard, so as to avoid unreasonable risk to others. If someone fails to conform with that duty and causes injury or death to another person, he or she may be liable for the damages caused. If you or a loved one has been seriously injured as a result of negligence or misconduct on the part of someone else, contact a Seattle personal injury attorney at Wattel & York, Attorneys at Law. Our experienced personal injury attorneys can help you recover financial compensation for your accident claim.
We have a religious school, with a distinct management team and by-laws.
They screened, accepted and paid two criminal pedophiles.
What legal rights do the enrolled student body and their parents have?
How do you assess the damage to the raped and scandalized children and what just compensation could there be?
MaryJane... Your line of thinking is good.
And, how else could the ICA faithful prevent Father Wegner from sweeping this scandal under the carpet?
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And to clarify what I said about trips and play rehearsals, I should have been more precise. I meant to ask only whether any illicit actions had occurred by students involved in that teacher's projects, not that he was directly or personally involved.
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MaryJane's comments are reminiscent of the naive legal attitudes of European xSPX priests:
Just a few examples:
1. Fr. Emily used to comment frequently, that you could shut people-up by suing them in a court of law.
2. Bp. Fellay is notorious for threatening lawsuits. If you recall the French book publisher who published +ABL's 238 sermons. Fellay chased him down in the courts, claiming he had copyrighted the sermons. He never produced his evidence in court.
3. The following year, Father Rostand confronted a Catholic in the coffee room at the Carson City Mission chapel and accused them of violating the law by having read the 238 sermons. He even pulled out his smartphone to record the his conversation with the man.
4. In Indiana a few years ago, the same Father Rostand bullied an independent chapel, just south of Indianapolis, blustering that if the faithful didn't sign over the property to the xSPX, "... they open another chapel down the street and put them out of business."
Yes, how sad, we don't sense the Holy Spirit running the affairs of the xSPX. More like masonic lawyers have their mind-share.
It will be justice, if the xSPX is engaged in a big American lawsuit. They won't have so many
legal resources as in Europe and are likely to be humbled, as they should be.
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Mary Jane:
And to clarify what I said about trips and play rehearsals, I should have been more precise. I meant to ask only whether any illicit actions had occurred by students involved in that teacher's projects, not that he was directly or personally involved.
I am not aware of any "trips" this teacher took with his cast. However, we observed him many time rehearsing with his students downstairs in the basement. It was all done very much in the open.
If "illicit actions" occurred in any of that "teacher's projects," they would have to have been carried out under his auspices, at least indirectly, while he was somewhere in the vicinity. or, somehow, nearby. Is that not what you're saying or implying? Are you not accusing him of creating a situation or contributing to an environment in which these acts might be more easily and conveniently performed?
I think you are trying to implicate this teacher in some way. Am I wrong?
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It appears the letter from the affected parents never came?
But why? Was the matter settled by and undisclosed pay-out settlement from the xSPX?
How else could Father Wegner have the termerity to say the scandal was closed?
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Incredulous:
3. The following year, Father Rostand confronted a Catholic in the coffee room at the Carson City Mission chapel and accused them of violating the law by having read the 238 sermons. He even pulled out his smartphone to record the his conversation with the man.
4. In Indiana a few years ago, the same Father Rostand bullied an independent chapel, just south of Indianapolis, blustering that if the faithful didn't sign over the property to the xSPX, "... they open another chapel down the street and put them out of business."
This testimony tracks with my own experience. Rostand tried to bully me and make me look silly in a parish meeting at ICC. Needless to say, it didn't work.
BTW, since Mary Jane has been talking about possible litigation against some, would it be actionable to accuse a priest on a public forum of being a total jackass?
Because, I think Rostand is a total jackass and a disgrace to his calling.
What about it, Mary Jane? Could your lawyer relative, perhaps, find cause to bring legal action against me for saying such a thing online.
Meanwhile, Fr. Rostand, may I suggest that you find another line of work?
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Sounds like we better all "Lawyer-up" :thinking:
The realization is sinking-in that Wegner did an out-of-court settlement and the parents are now silenced.
I'm incredulous at a neo-trad religious order's adeptness to make their way through the world like Freemasons.
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Incredulous:
The realization is sinking-in that Wegner did an out-of-court settlement and the parents are now silenced.
This might be the case, But then, what was the exact nature of that "settlement" in your opinion, Incred? I mean, what could the D.S. have said to them in order to shut them up? What kind of an arrangement could he have made with them to ensure future silence? What kind of threats might he have made in order to cow these parents into silence? I don't get it.
They should be screaming from the roof tops. Instead, ICC parishioners are apparently back to their heads-down, robotic, Mass-attending past. They have, it would seem, settled back into that comfortable, head-in-the-sand Catholicism of the 50s to which the bishop makes occasional reference.
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Incredulous:The realization is sinking-in that Wegner did an out-of-court settlement and the parents are now silenced.
This might be the case, But then, what was the exact nature of that "settlement" in your opinion, Incred? I mean, what could the D.S. have said to them in order to shut them up? What kind of an arrangement could he have made with them to ensure future silence? What kind of threats might he have made in order to cow these parents into silence? I don't get it.
They should be screaming from the roof tops. Instead, ICC parishioners are apparently back to their heads-down, robotic, Mass-attending past. They have, it would seem, settled back into that comfortable, head-in-the-sand Catholicism of the 50s to which the bishop makes occasional reference.
To insure silence, I suspect it was just cash money and the signing of a contract.
Consider the xSPX is at a critical juncture of their betrayal... and they had done an good job at blacking-out news on the scandal.
But thanks to Cathinfo and the other trad forums, the scandal was making some traction.
If the parents would have taken the ICA management to court, it would have been a PR disaster!
Fr. Wegner the re-branding "PR guy", understood the implications of the scandal getting out of control.
As we will recall, he showed-up in Post Falls in a secretive fashion, did his business and got out of town.
No time to perform and exorcism rite, cause he had taken care of the "people problem" already.
Could it be, in the estimation of the little Ralph Lauren cologned priest, green money, worked better than an exorcism or Holy water?
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To insure silence, I suspect it was just cash money and the signing of a contract.
Are you saying that sspx bought their silence with a healthy cash settlement? I rather doubt it, but who knows.
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It appears the letter from the affected parents never came?
But why? Was the matter settled by and undisclosed pay-out settlement from the xSPX?
Puh-lease.
I HIGHLY doubt it.
First of all, they are not going to give one thin dime to parishioners unless a court of law FORCED them to.
Second, I think SSPX parishioners are exactly what someone said - cows! And fearful cows, to boot.
They are terrified of being kicked out of their parish. People are usually STUCK where they are - can't sell a house, can't get another job, etc.
They are not about to blow up their lives by blowing up their Church.
So, it was probably REALLY easy for Fr. Wegner to tell them they are not allowed to speak of what happened or they will be ejected from the parish.
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mw:
First of all, they (sspx rascals) are not going to give one thin dime to parishioners unless a court of law FORCED them to.
Second, I think SSPX parishioners are exactly what someone said - cows! And fearful cows, to boot.
They are terrified of being kicked out of their parish. People are usually STUCK where they are - can't sell a house, can't get another job, etc.
They are not about to blow up their lives by blowing up their Church.
So, it was probably REALLY easy for Fr. Wegner to tell them they are not allowed to speak of what happened or they will be ejected from the parish.
MW, I think you are exactly right. Having been among these people for a decade, I think your brief analysis is probably spot on.
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It appears the letter from the affected parents never came?
But why? Was the matter settled by and undisclosed pay-out settlement from the xSPX?
They are not about to blow up their lives by blowing up their Church.
So, it was probably REALLY easy for Fr. Wegner to tell them they are not allowed to speak of what happened or they will be ejected from the parish.
Private settlement is one of a Novus ordo bishop's "best practices" in silencing a Diocesean scandal. The Society may claim poverty, but they have access to a lot of funds.
If you are saying that the families have kept silence on their children's abuse to remain in the xSPX ѕуηαgσgυє, then we've really underestimated their wisdom and character.
This homo/pervert scandal occurred in the land of the American "vigilante" and "white supremacist", as the ʝʊdɛօ-masonics have labeled it.
If these traditional Catholic families bowed out for fear of losing their xSPX pew seat, it is worse than accepting a pay-off... :facepalm:
At least with a pay-off, you can get your child some therapy and move to a non xSPX school.
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A few thoughts on this whole mess.
1. The parents of the bad boys were very upset. They were hoping the SSPX would protect them, but they believed otherwise and we're in the process of redress in their grevences.
2. Fr. Wegner assured them of his support and in turn secured their silence. So much for redressing.
3. No one would dare sully the reputation of the parents, as the SSPX had their backs.
4. The net result everyone is happy, and no one will speak evil of the parents, right? And if they did, the wrath of a 1000 burning suns will decent upon them and the SSPX will defend them.
5. Don't you just love a story with a happy ending?
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Kevin Sloniker was sentenced to life in prison with no parole.
http://www.krem.com/news/local/kootenai-county/n-idaho-trucker-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-for-sɛҳuąƖly-abusing-underage-boys/343962073
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Here's another one: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/oct/28/trucker-who-molested-boys-from-his-church-will-spe/
This article says he will be eligible for parole review in 35 years, when he's 66.
He says he thought he'd only get seven years.
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Kevin Sloniker was sentenced to life in prison with no parole.
http://www.krem.com/news/local/kootenai-county/n-idaho-trucker-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-for-sɛҳuąƖly-abusing-underage-boys/343962073
Whew!, as Fr. Wegner would say, "... I'm glad that episode is over. Now the school boys are safe."
These "madman rapists" remind me of the Lee Harvey Oswald, "lone gunman" story.
Do you think the xSPX, will bring him the Sacraments ? I sort of doubt... being that Fr. Wegner is concerned about bad PR, and all.
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Kevin Sloniker was sentenced to life in prison with no parole.
http://www.krem.com/news/local/kootenai-county/n-idaho-trucker-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-for-sɛҳuąƖly-abusing-underage-boys/343962073
Whew!, as Fr. Wegner would say, "... I'm glad that episode is over. Now the school boys are safe."
These "madman rapists" remind me of the Lee Harvey Oswald, "lone gunman" story.
Do you think the xSPX, will bring him the Sacraments ? I sort of doubt... being that Fr. Wegner is concerned about bad PR, and all.
KS said in court he's a "bible man," or something along those lines. Sounds more Protestant than anything else. Maybe the evangelicals in prison snatched him up for their side.
By the way, I really do love your avatar. I always get a laugh out of it. Especially when I'm feeling the exact same way. :smile: