Author Topic: Sodomy Scandal in Post Falls, ID - SSPX Immaculate Conception Academy (Read 198487 times)

DeProfundisClamavi · « **Reply #195 on:** July 22, 2016, 01:29:16 PM »

Quote from: Amakusa

Well, there have been sɛҳuąƖ scandals in the SSPX too in my country. Recently an association specifically dedicated to denouncing sɛҳuąƖ abuses among the religious communities has published a report mentioning sɛҳuąƖs abuses by some SSPX priests.

I assume you're referring to the AVREF black book. This is an interesting docuмent in many respects and it deals with more than just sex abuse. I read it with some help from Google Translate and found it instructive and well docuмented. My understanding is that Bishop Fellay is too busy managing investment funds to deal with reports of sex abuse by his priests in France and elsewhere :shocked:

Pilar · « **Reply #196 on:** July 22, 2016, 03:07:39 PM »

Quote from: hollingsworth

Matthew:
Quote
That is what happened. It wasn't rotten from the outset. +ABL was a saint. His work (the SSPX) was the most Catholic group around. It was a beautiful, good organization blessed by God and bore many, many good fruits.

I hope that Matthew is not suggesting that I, Alexandria, and a few others are suggesting that the SSPX under ABL was not a good thing. It bore, as Matthew says, many good fruits.
But the SSPX that we've been vocal about is +Fellay's organization, not ABL',s. I think that it has been slowly,(maybe rapidly) rotting from the head down. My wife and I came aboard in @ 2001,02. Believe me, it was all downhill for us. The public vilification of Bp. Williamson and his final expulsion, the zionist, Krah, Rothchild connections, the vigorous overtures to Rome, still ongoing, the GREC ties, the 2012 General Chapter, the unceremonious ejection of numbersof good and worthy priests from the Society- you name it. All that worked together to force us out. We never knew an SSPX of which Matthew waxes so nostalgic.

Well, maybe that is why you have no real love for the SSPX. It took you until 2001 to find out there was a problem in the Church and where the remedy was? I have always wondered about the level of education that most of the people on these forums have. Especially and primarily regarding the Faith and history of the Church. I see incredible amounts of naivete. People looking for a holy card Church and holy card priests.

Many of us have been "with" the SSPX since the beginning. The priests of the SSPX have taught us our catechism, helped prepare us to be good parents, baptized our children, Society schools have educated them, married them, ordained them and even buried them. We have known them well and we know how they live. Most, by far, are dedicated, holy and stalwart. They do what they do for love of God.

There has never been a time and there never will be a time for the Church Militant, when there are not scandals of all types. It never meant that the faithful were exempt from attending Mass and receiving the Sacraments and it doesn't mean that now. Both sides of the resistance are rife with scandals and problems so according to this forum, there is nowhere to go, leaving the Faithful in a pretty pickle.

Matthew is right when he said that the SSPX was founded by a saint and did saintly work for decades. Just because we have concerns about the current head and his direction it doesn't mean that the SSPX cannot do saintly work now. Most of our priests are men of good will, judging by their constant sacrifices and the graces that flow to us from their hands.

All of those who love to criticize the Society apparently have never really loved her or her vocation. Her Masses are still good Masses, Sacraments still the same, sermons are orthodox and in this world, that is the most we can hope for, and more than we deserve. Scandals arise as they must, Matthew 18:7, and they will be dealt with. How they are dealt with is up to those who actually know all of the information, not we here who know nothing but gossip and rumor.

We need to pray more rosaries and spend less time on these forums. I don't say they have no place, but they seem to feed hysteria more often than not. Fr. Crane is a good priest and he was a cop for years. He knows youth in a way few do. He was tough with the youth in his sermons when he was with us and if he has made any mistakes dealing with this, and I doubt that he has, they were undoubtedly honest ones. When scandals of this type occur anywhere, in institutions or families, the best course is to take care of them quietly so as not to spread the scandal. Keeping it quiet doesn't mean that nothing is being done. I daresay that in our families, if something untoward happens, as it always will since we are sinners, we don't want it discussed by others or spoken of in public! God forbid!

Too, too many are anxious for the Society to be destroyed and it is obvious by the things they write. Lots of little axes to grind, no doubt.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #197 on:** July 22, 2016, 07:52:31 PM »

I'll repeat:

There are, reportedly, the following:

1) A letter of resignation from Fr. Vassal- to date, no one has been able to secure a copy of that letter

2) There is probably a letter(s) from involved parents, or at least some written or recorded statements- Thus far, none of those statements has been made available.

3) There is a purported written statement or letter from the ICC Holy Name Society- That statement has, apparently, been suppressed.

4) Reportedly, the ICC Heart of Mary Guild has also released some kind of letter or statement- We haven't seen it.

From our inquiries, it appears, a relatively few, even from among the ICC faithful at ICC, are privy to these docuмents.

Are there appearances of a massive cover-up? I would have to conclude that there well may be.

Zeitun · « **Reply #198 on:** July 22, 2016, 08:03:09 PM »

No amount of Tridentine Latin Masses, rosaries, or other sacrifices will ever restore the virginity of those boys. They will be unfit for marriage and unfit for the priesthood. Sad. This is why I homeschool.

Matto · « **Reply #199 on:** July 22, 2016, 08:12:32 PM »

Quote from: Zeitun

No amount of Tridentine Latin Masses, rosaries, or other sacrifices will ever restore the virginity of those boys. They will be unfit for marriage and unfit for the priesthood. Sad. This is why I homeschool.

I hope that they can recover and live normal lives and not be sodomites for life, though I wouldn't want them to be priests.

wallflower · « **Reply #200 on:** July 22, 2016, 08:17:12 PM »

Quote from: Pilar

Well, maybe that is why you have no real love for the SSPX. It took you until 2001 to find out there was a problem in the Church and where the remedy was? I have always wondered about the level of education that most of the people on these forums have. Especially and primarily regarding the Faith and history of the Church. I see incredible amounts of naivete. People looking for a holy card Church and holy card priests.

Many of us have been "with" the SSPX since the beginning. The priests of the SSPX have taught us our catechism, helped prepare us to be good parents, baptized our children, Society schools have educated them, married them, ordained them and even buried them. We have known them well and we know how they live. Most, by far, are dedicated, holy and stalwart. They do what they do for love of God.

There has never been a time and there never will be a time for the Church Militant, when there are not scandals of all types. It never meant that the faithful were exempt from attending Mass and receiving the Sacraments and it doesn't mean that now. Both sides of the resistance are rife with scandals and problems so according to this forum, there is nowhere to go, leaving the Faithful in a pretty pickle.

Matthew is right when he said that the SSPX was founded by a saint and did saintly work for decades. Just because we have concerns about the current head and his direction it doesn't mean that the SSPX cannot do saintly work now. Most of our priests are men of good will, judging by their constant sacrifices and the graces that flow to us from their hands.

All of those who love to criticize the Society apparently have never really loved her or her vocation. Her Masses are still good Masses, Sacraments still the same, sermons are orthodox and in this world, that is the most we can hope for, and more than we deserve. Scandals arise as they must, Matthew 18:7, and they will be dealt with. How they are dealt with is up to those who actually know all of the information, not we here who know nothing but gossip and rumor.

We need to pray more rosaries and spend less time on these forums. I don't say they have no place, but they seem to feed hysteria more often than not. Fr. Crane is a good priest and he was a cop for years. He knows youth in a way few do. He was tough with the youth in his sermons when he was with us and if he has made any mistakes dealing with this, and I doubt that he has, they were undoubtedly honest ones. When scandals of this type occur anywhere, in institutions or families, the best course is to take care of them quietly so as not to spread the scandal. Keeping it quiet doesn't mean that nothing is being done. I daresay that in our families, if something untoward happens, as it always will since we are sinners, we don't want it discussed by others or spoken of in public! God forbid!

Too, too many are anxious for the Society to be destroyed and it is obvious by the things they write. Lots of little axes to grind, no doubt.

I agree with you for the most part. CI is an important resource but I have noticed it has been attracting a lot of people who have no lost love for the SSPX and are dying to tear it down and criticize every little thing. It's lending CI an unfortunate acrimonious tone. There used to be just a few who were constantly nit-picking the SSPX and the priests but now it's "everybody" (or it feels like everybody sometimes.) But while I notice the problem, I unfortunately do not have a solution to offer. I think Matthew has done a good job of clarifying that it isn't open season on the SSPX and the priests, but the undercurrents are still there.

Mark 79 · « **Reply #201 on:** July 22, 2016, 08:40:32 PM »

Quote from: wallflower

Quote from: Pilar
...blah, blah, blah

I agree with you for the most part. CI is an important resource but I have noticed it has been attracting a lot of people who have no lost love for the SSPX and are dying to tear it down and criticize every little thing. It's lending CI an unfortunate acrimonious tone. There used to be just a few who were constantly nit-picking the SSPX and the priests but now it's "everybody" (or it feels like everybody sometimes.) But while I notice the problem, I unfortunately do not have a solution to offer. I think Matthew has done a good job of clarifying that it isn't open season on the SSPX and the priests, but the undercurrents are still there.

Oh puh-leez... as if a series of FOUR RECENT CHILD SEX SCANDALS at least two or three of which were enabled by MALFEASANT SSPX PRIESTS is "picking nits"? Maybe if you or your kids were whipped and buggered you'd have a different take on "nits."

Neither does Hollingsworth's lengthy list involve "nits."

Geremia · « **Reply #202 on:** July 22, 2016, 08:58:14 PM »

Quote from: Zeitun

No amount of Tridentine Latin Masses, rosaries, or other sacrifices will ever restore the virginity of those boys.

Don't you mean "innocence," not "virginity"?
Also, St. Peter Damian, author of the famous Book of Gomorrah, argued that God can restore virginity.

Geremia · « **Reply #203 on:** July 22, 2016, 09:26:29 PM »

Quote from: JezusDeKoning

Quote from: Zeitun
No amount of Tridentine Latin Masses, rosaries, or other sacrifices will ever restore the virginity of those boys. They will be unfit for marriage and unfit for the priesthood. Sad. This is why I homeschool.

Of those that go on to lead normal lives, how would they be unfit for marriage and the priesthood? Just curious.

Perhaps it's the same reason the 1917 Code (canon 984 1.°) considers bastards "irregular by defect" for obtaining Holy Orders.

Mark 79 · « **Reply #204 on:** July 22, 2016, 09:53:23 PM »

Quote from: wallflower

Mark it is malicious of you to immediately take my post to mean that child sex abuse is considered picking nits. That's all that post boiled down to for you? I am really tired of your attitude and constant search for a fight. For someone who is so ready to point out others' tactics, you sure have a lot of unsavory ones of your own. Put me on ignore, please. Your responses never address what I've actually said anyway. You might as well skip them.

You complained about "nit picking" about "little" things in a thread explicitly about the sodomy scandal, a thread that also focuses on 3 additional sex scandals involving children. Now you want us to believe you meant to exclude the main thread topic—the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of children and the malfeasance of SSPX priests that worsened the problem. Okaaaay.... what explicitly are those "little" "nit picking" things have you so wrapped around the axle?

St Ignatius · « **Reply #205 on:** July 22, 2016, 10:20:31 PM »

Quote from: wallflower

Quote from: Pilar

Well, maybe that is why you have no real love for the SSPX. It took you until 2001 to find out there was a problem in the Church and where the remedy was? I have always wondered about the level of education that most of the people on these forums have. Especially and primarily regarding the Faith and history of the Church. I see incredible amounts of naivete. People looking for a holy card Church and holy card priests.

Many of us have been "with" the SSPX since the beginning. The priests of the SSPX have taught us our catechism, helped prepare us to be good parents, baptized our children, Society schools have educated them, married them, ordained them and even buried them. We have known them well and we know how they live. Most, by far, are dedicated, holy and stalwart. They do what they do for love of God.

There has never been a time and there never will be a time for the Church Militant, when there are not scandals of all types. It never meant that the faithful were exempt from attending Mass and receiving the Sacraments and it doesn't mean that now. Both sides of the resistance are rife with scandals and problems so according to this forum, there is nowhere to go, leaving the Faithful in a pretty pickle.

Matthew is right when he said that the SSPX was founded by a saint and did saintly work for decades. Just because we have concerns about the current head and his direction it doesn't mean that the SSPX cannot do saintly work now. Most of our priests are men of good will, judging by their constant sacrifices and the graces that flow to us from their hands.

All of those who love to criticize the Society apparently have never really loved her or her vocation. Her Masses are still good Masses, Sacraments still the same, sermons are orthodox and in this world, that is the most we can hope for, and more than we deserve. Scandals arise as they must, Matthew 18:7, and they will be dealt with. How they are dealt with is up to those who actually know all of the information, not we here who know nothing but gossip and rumor.

We need to pray more rosaries and spend less time on these forums. I don't say they have no place, but they seem to feed hysteria more often than not. Fr. Crane is a good priest and he was a cop for years. He knows youth in a way few do. He was tough with the youth in his sermons when he was with us and if he has made any mistakes dealing with this, and I doubt that he has, they were undoubtedly honest ones. When scandals of this type occur anywhere, in institutions or families, the best course is to take care of them quietly so as not to spread the scandal. Keeping it quiet doesn't mean that nothing is being done. I daresay that in our families, if something untoward happens, as it always will since we are sinners, we don't want it discussed by others or spoken of in public! God forbid!

Too, too many are anxious for the Society to be destroyed and it is obvious by the things they write. Lots of little axes to grind, no doubt.

I agree with you for the most part. CI is an important resource but I have noticed it has been attracting a lot of people who have no lost love for the SSPX and are dying to tear it down and criticize every little thing. It's lending CI an unfortunate acrimonious tone. There used to be just a few who were constantly nit-picking the SSPX and the priests but now it's "everybody" (or it feels like everybody sometimes.) But while I notice the problem, I unfortunately do not have a solution to offer. I think Matthew has done a good job of clarifying that it isn't open season on the SSPX and the priests, but the undercurrents are still there.

Reading what Pilar says reminds me of the words of Our Lord, "Many are called, but few are chosen."

hollingsworth · « **Reply #206 on:** July 22, 2016, 10:45:56 PM »

wallflower:

Quote

I agree with you for the most part. CI is an important resource but I have noticed it has been attracting a lot of people who have no lost love for the SSPX and are dying to tear it down and criticize every little thing. It's lending CI an unfortunate acrimonious tone.

May I remind you that it was the site's owner, Matthew, custodian of this "important resource," who introduced the topic. Are you accusing Matthew of trying to tear down the Society? The topic has received well over 56,000 hits. Criticizing every little thing would hardly include this particular topic. It isn't a little thing. It stands rather alone as a pretty big thing,IMO!

In a single sspx chapel you've got a guy, who over a 10 year span, manages to molest at least 9 (?) ICC boys,and apparently others, as well. Now he's in jail. You've got a priest who, apparently, blows off earlier warnings concerning this predator.

Now, as a another nasty addendum to the whole affair, though not necessarily related to the ICA school tragedy, you've got another ICC layman, who gets caught in a police sting operation involving the solicitation of under-aged children for sex.

BTW, if a forum like CI had not made people aware of the scandal, one has to wonder whether the story would have gotten out at all. And, if the sspx hierarchy has its way, I think, fhe whole sordid affair will vanish into the mists and be hopefully forgotten. We can be pretty certain that they'll never tell.

Zeitun · « **Reply #207 on:** July 23, 2016, 08:00:09 AM »

I have no desire to "tear down the Society". They don't need my help destroying themselves. But as a parent who was recently considering moving to a community with an SSPX academy to enroll my sons I consider this information important to my decision to continue to homeschool. I'm certain the rector of the school would not have told me that they can't guarantee that other students wouldn't rape my children on campus.

So God bless you Matthew for helping me to avoid making that mistake. There's a lot of pressure to enroll boys in those schools. I'm glad now I stood firm in my decision to homeschool.

wallflower · « **Reply #208 on:** July 23, 2016, 10:05:55 AM »

If you think I am accusing Matthew of trying to tear down the Society, or that I do not value the resource that CI is, then you have a reading comprehension problem, just like Mark. The post Pilar wrote, with which I mostly agreed, actually references the love that people like Matthew have for the SSPX. But this is not the case for everybody.

Because there is a lot of negative to say at the moment, it is bringing many out of the woodworks who do not love the SSPX and never have. They lend a tone. Though the post is here, this is not the only topic on the board. It does happen to be one wherein people are most apt to betray their eagerness to air all dirty laundry with no care for whether it is real, imagined, necessary etc... I can't speak for Pilar but my own opinion is based on a general observance over quite some time. It's making it difficult to be here.

Alexandria · « **Reply #209 on:** July 23, 2016, 11:19:01 AM »

Quote from: hollingsworth

I'll repeat:

There are, reportedly, the following:

1) A letter of resignation from Fr. Vassal- to date, no one has been able to secure a copy of that letter

2) There is probably a letter(s) from involved parents, or at least some written or recorded statements- Thus far, none of those statements has been made available.

3) There is a purported written statement or letter from the ICC Holy Name Society- That statement has, apparently, been suppressed.

4) Reportedly, the ICC Heart of Mary Guild has also released some kind of letter or statement- We haven't seen it.

From our inquiries, it appears, a relatively few, even from among the ICC faithful at ICC, are privy to these docuмents.

Are there appearances of a massive cover-up? I would have to conclude that there well may be.

They like exposing everyone else's dirty laundry, but hide their own well. Nothing new.