Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Maria Auxiliadora on July 19, 2012, 05:59:30 AM
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Society of St. Pius X General Chapter Statement
19-07-2012
Filed under From Tradition, News
As announced in the press communiqué of the Society of St. Pius X’s General House on July 14, 2012, the members of the General Chapter sent a common statement to Rome. It has been published today.
During the interview published at DICI on July 16, Bishop Bernard Fellay stated that this docuмent was “the occasion to specify the (SSPX’s) road map insisting upon the conservation of the Society’s identity, the only efficacious means to help the Church to restore Christendom”. “For,” he said, “doctrinal mutism is not the answer to this “silent apostasy”, which even John Paul II denounced already in 2003.”
At the conclusion of the General Chapter of the Society of St. Pius X, gathered together at the tomb of its venerated founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, and united with its Superior General, the participants, bishops, superiors, and most senior members of the Society elevate to Heaven our heartfelt thanksgiving, grateful for the 42 years of marvelous Divine protection over our work, amidst a Church in crisis and a world which distances itself farther from God and His law with each passing day.
We wish to express our gratitude to each and every member of our Society: priests, brothers, sisters, third order members; to the religious communities close to us and also to our dear faithful, for their constant dedication and for their fervent prayers on the occasion of this Chapter, marked by frank exchanges of views and by a very fruitful common work. Every sacrifice and pain accepted with generosity has contributed to overcome the difficulties which the Society has encountered in recent times. We have recovered our profound unity in its essential mission: to preserve and defend the Catholic Faith, to form good priests, and to strive towards the restoration of Christendom. We have determined and approved the necessary conditions for an eventual canonical normalization. We have decided that, in that case, an extraordinary Chapter with deliberative vote will be convened beforehand.
We must never forget that the sanctification of the souls always starts within ourselves. It is the fruit of a faith which becomes vivifying and operating by the work of charity, according to the words of St. Paul: “For we can do nothing against the truth: but for the truth” (cf. II Cor., XIII, 8), and “as Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it… that it should be holy and without blemish” (cf. Eph. V, 25 s.).
The Chapter believes that the paramount duty of the Society, in the service which it intends to offer to the Church, is to continue, with God’s help, to profess the Catholic Faith in all its purity and integrity, with a determination matching the intensity of the constant attacks to which this very Faith is subjected nowadays.
For this reason it seems opportune that we reaffirm our faith in the Roman Catholic Church, the unique Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, outside of which there is no salvation nor possibility to find the means leading to salvation; our faith in its monarchical constitution, desired by Our Lord himself, by which the supreme power of government over the universal Church belongs only to the Pope, Vicar of Christ on earth; our faith in the universal Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Creator of both the natural and the supernatural orders, to Whom every man and every society must submit.
The Society continues to uphold the declarations and the teachings of the constant Magisterium of the Church in regard to all the novelties of the Second Vatican Council which remain tainted with errors, and also in regard to the reforms issued from it. We find our sure guide in this uninterrupted Magisterium which, by its teaching authority, transmits the revealed Deposit of Faith in perfect harmony with the truths that the entire Church has professed, always and everywhere.
The Society finds its guide as well in the constant Tradition of the Church, which transmits and will transmit until the end of times the teachings required to preserve the Faith and the salvation of souls, while waiting for the day when an open and serious debate will be possible which may allow the return to Tradition of the ecclesiastical authorities.
We wish to unite ourselves to the others Christians persecuted in different countries of the world who are now suffering for the Catholic Faith, some even to the extent of martyrdom. Their blood, shed in union with the Victim of our altars, is the pledge for a true renewal of the Church in capite et membris, according to the old saying sanguis martyrum semen christianorum.
“Finally, we turn our eyes to the Blessed Virgin Mary, who is also jealous of the privileges of her Divine Son, jealous of His glory, of His Kingdom on earth as in Heaven. How often has she intervened for the defense, even the armed defense, of Christendom against the enemies of the Kingdom of Our Lord! We entreat her to intervene today to chase the enemies out from inside the Church who are trying to destroy it more radically than its enemies from outside. May she deign to keep in the integrity of the Faith, in the love of the Church, in devotion to the Successor of Peter, all the members of the Society of St. Pius X and all the priests and faithful who labor alongside the Society, in order that she may both keep us from schism and preserve us from heresy.
“May St. Michael the Archangel inspire us with his zeal for the glory of God and with his strength to fight the devil.
“May St. Pius X share with us a part of his wisdom, of his learning, of his sanctity, to discern the true from the false and the good from the evil in these times of confusion and lies.” (Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre; Albano, October 19, 1983).
Given at Ecône, on the 14th of July of the Year of the Lord 2012.
Déclaration du Chapitre général de la Fraternité Saint-Pie X
Dichiarazione del Capitolo generale della Fraternità Sacerdotale San Pio X
Declaración del Capítulo General de la Fraternidad Sacerdotal San Pío X
Grundsatzerklärung des Generalkapitels der Priesterbruderschaft St. Pius X.
You can read also :
Interview with Bishop Bernard Fellay on the occasion of the General Chapter (July 16, 2012)
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I don't know why the fist paragraph came out like that. I'll repeat it fro RC
Rome-SSPX: Declaration of the General Chapter of the Society of Saint Pius X sent to the Holy See
As announced in the press communiqué of the Society of St. Pius X’s General House on July 14, 2012, the members of the General Chapter sent a common statement to Rome. It has been published today.
During the interview published at DICI on July 16, Bishop Bernard Fellay stated that this docuмent was “the occasion to specify the (SSPX’s) road map insisting upon the conservation of the Society’s identity, the only efficacious means to help the Church to restore Christendom”. “For,” he said, “doctrinal mutism is not the answer to this “silent apostasy”, which even John Paul II denounced already in 2003.”
At the conclusion of the General Chapter of the Society of St. Pius X, gathered together at the tomb of its venerated founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, and united with its Superior General, the participants, bishops, superiors, and most senior members of the Society elevate to Heaven our heartfelt thanksgiving, grateful for the 42 years of marvelous Divine protection over our work, amidst a Church in crisis and a world which distances itself farther from God and His law with each passing day.
We wish to express our gratitude to each and every member of our Society: priests, brothers, sisters, third order members; to the religious communities close to us and also to our dear faithful, for their constant dedication and for their fervent prayers on the occasion of this Chapter, marked by frank exchanges of views and by a very fruitful common work. Every sacrifice and pain accepted with generosity has contributed to overcome the difficulties which the Society has encountered in recent times. We have recovered our profound unity in its essential mission: to preserve and defend the Catholic Faith, to form good priests, and to strive towards the restoration of Christendom. We have determined and approved the necessary conditions for an eventual canonical normalization. We have decided that, in that case, an extraordinary Chapter with deliberative vote will be convened beforehand.
We must never forget that the sanctification of the souls always starts within ourselves. It is the fruit of a faith which becomes vivifying and operating by the work of charity, according to the words of St. Paul: “For we can do nothing against the truth: but for the truth” (cf. II Cor., XIII, 8), and “as Christ also loved the church and delivered himself up for it… that it should be holy and without blemish” (cf. Eph. V, 25 s.).
The Chapter believes that the paramount duty of the Society, in the service which it intends to offer to the Church, is to continue, with God’s help, to profess the Catholic Faith in all its purity and integrity, with a determination matching the intensity of the constant attacks to which this very Faith is subjected nowadays.
For this reason it seems opportune that we reaffirm our faith in the Roman Catholic Church, the unique Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, outside of which there is no salvation nor possibility to find the means leading to salvation; our faith in its monarchical constitution, desired by Our Lord himself, by which the supreme power of government over the universal Church belongs only to the Pope, Vicar of Christ on earth; our faith in the universal Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Creator of both the natural and the supernatural orders, to Whom every man and every society must submit.
The Society continues to uphold the declarations and the teachings of the constant Magisterium of the Church in regard to all the novelties of the Second Vatican Council which remain tainted with errors, and also in regard to the reforms issued from it. We find our sure guide in this uninterrupted Magisterium which, by its teaching authority, transmits the revealed Deposit of Faith in perfect harmony with the truths that the entire Church has professed, always and everywhere.
The Society finds its guide as well in the constant Tradition of the Church, which transmits and will transmit until the end of times the teachings required to preserve the Faith and the salvation of souls, while waiting for the day when an open and serious debate will be possible which may allow the return to Tradition of the ecclesiastical authorities.
We wish to unite ourselves to the others Christians persecuted in different countries of the world who are now suffering for the Catholic Faith, some even to the extent of martyrdom. Their blood, shed in union with the Victim of our altars, is the pledge for a true renewal of the Church in capite et membris, according to the old saying sanguis martyrum semen christianorum.
“Finally, we turn our eyes to the Blessed Virgin Mary, who is also jealous of the privileges of her Divine Son, jealous of His glory, of His Kingdom on earth as in Heaven. How often has she intervened for the defense, even the armed defense, of Christendom against the enemies of the Kingdom of Our Lord! We entreat her to intervene today to chase the enemies out from inside the Church who are trying to destroy it more radically than its enemies from outside. May she deign to keep in the integrity of the Faith, in the love of the Church, in devotion to the Successor of Peter, all the members of the Society of St. Pius X and all the priests and faithful who labor alongside the Society, in order that she may both keep us from schism and preserve us from heresy.
“May St. Michael the Archangel inspire us with his zeal for the glory of God and with his strength to fight the devil.
“May St. Pius X share with us a part of his wisdom, of his learning, of his sanctity, to discern the true from the false and the good from the evil in these times of confusion and lies.” (Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre; Albano, October 19, 1983).
Given at Ecône, on the 14th of July of the Year of the Lord 2012.
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Deo Gratias
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That's it?! What a weak statement. It says no of course but it sounds like another sermon by +Fellay leaving the door open for himself at the first opportunity.
I would like to see a real statement by the other two bishops and an analysis by +Williamson. Honestly, I'm ashamed that this bishop represents Tradition. I hope he goes to Rome and let the other bishops in charge of defending the Faith.
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We have determined and approved the necessary conditions for an eventual canonical normalization
“This is a new concept which we know the Traditionalists will not be able to accept immediately. Convincing them will take time, and in this respect we will have to be patient.”
Archbishop Di Noia
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We have decided that, in that case, an extraordinary Chapter with deliberative vote will be convened beforehand.
Who is the "we" and will Bishop Williamson have a vote in this extraordinary Chapter?
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(I don't know how to edit my previous post - sorry) It is pleasing that there will be no SSPX-Rome merger at this point; however, it is lamentable (to say the least) that +Fellay and his appointees retained power. The GC should have been the occasion for a new election of leadership.
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the necessary conditions
Would these include the expulsion of Bishop Williamson and other priests or what conditions are necessary for this "eventual canonical normalization"?
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all the members of the Society of St. Pius X and all the priests and faithful who labor alongside the Society, in order that she may both keep us from schism and preserve us from heresy.
It can't be forgotten how Bishop Fellay treated the Dominicans of Avrille and the Capuchins of Morgon and excluding Bishop Williamson from the Chapter.
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I suppose the General Chapter can be summarised as being a meeting to discuss "eventual canonical normalization". Perhaps Wessex was not far off the mark when he suggested it would be a claps on the back, well done old chap type of meeting.
The 'trouble makers' were excluded and it was business as usual for Bishop Fellay. The 9 haven't seem to have made any impact as the statement states clearly there will be an "eventual canonical normalization".
Did anybody Bishop Tissier etc etc raise a hand and make any objections? Was anybody at the meeting vocal in expressing disgust at the exclusion of Bishop Williamson?
It was certainly the non event as stated previously and I think we can conclude the door to Rome is still open and a canonical normalization is certain.
Being honest I don't see even Bishop Tissier consecrating new Bishops. It was very much a it was to be expected time meeting.
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FROM THE VATICAN INFORMATION SERVICE 19/7/12
COMMUNIQUE CONCERNING PRIESTLY SOCIETY OF ST. PIUS X
Vatican City, 19 July 2012 (VIS) - Early this afternoon, the Holy See Press Office released the following English-language communique concerning the declaration which emerged from the General Chapter of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X.
"The recently concluded General Chapter of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X has addressed a declaration regarding the possibility of a canonical normalisation in the relationship of the Society and the Holy See. While it has been made public, the declaration remains primarily an internal docuмent for study and discussion among the members of the Society.
"The Holy See has taken note of this declaration, but awaits the forthcoming official communication of the Priestly Society as their dialogue with the Pontifical Commission 'Ecclesia Dei' continues".
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Being Irish, I'm very used to normalisation by a foreign power. The generation before patriot P.H. Pearse, Irish youth were raised to be good Englishmen or obedient Irishmen. English rule has been 'normalised' in Ireland through the centuries and still in the Six Counties occupied by the Crown.
Rome are doing the same thing to the SSPX.
The rosary crusades were smoke screens,some sermons were very stage managed and scripted, and the youth group pilgrimage to Rome was timed.
Faithful can never feign ignorance regarding these discussions with Rome. Rome is not the friend of the SSPX or Catholic Tradition.
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Excellent statement!
The following are the money lines. Reasserting Tradition. There is no possible way that Abp. Muller or Di Noia will be agreeing to this.
To me this statement is a line in the sand. Accept us "as is" or don't accept us. Either way, we'll stick to Tradition.
The Chapter believes that the paramount duty of the Society, in the service which it intends to offer to the Church, is to continue, with God’s help, to profess the Catholic Faith in all its purity and integrity, with a determination matching the intensity of the constant attacks to which this very Faith is subjected nowadays.
For this reason it seems opportune that we reaffirm our faith in the Roman Catholic Church, the unique Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ, outside of which there is no salvation nor possibility to find the means leading to salvation; our faith in its monarchical constitution, desired by Our Lord himself, by which the supreme power of government over the universal Church belongs only to the Pope, Vicar of Christ on earth; our faith in the universal Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ, Creator of both the natural and the supernatural orders, to Whom every man and every society must submit.
The Society continues to uphold the declarations and the teachings of the constant Magisterium of the Church in regard to all the novelties of the Second Vatican Council which remain tainted with errors, and also in regard to the reforms issued from it. We find our sure guide in this uninterrupted Magisterium which, by its teaching authority, transmits the revealed Deposit of Faith in perfect harmony with the truths that the entire Church has professed, always and everywhere.
The Society finds its guide as well in the constant Tradition of the Church, which transmits and will transmit until the end of times the teachings required to preserve the Faith and the salvation of souls, while waiting for the day when an open and serious debate will be possible which may allow the return to Tradition of the ecclesiastical authorities.
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Bishop Fellay avoid the issue of Doctrinal Differences(Accepting Vatican II or not),
Instead, He open the Season II of Rome-SSPX Deal.
Canonical Normalisation
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Bishop Fellay avoid the issue of Doctrinal Differences(Accepting Vatican II or not),
Instead, He open the Season II of Rome-SSPX Deal.
Canonical Normalisation
Did you not see the following:
The Society continues to uphold the declarations and the teachings of the constant Magisterium of the Church in regard to all the novelties of the Second Vatican Council which remain tainted with errors, and also in regard to the reforms issued from it.
The Society has ALWAYS been "open" to canonical normilization. ABL was. That is nothing new. The "conditions of normalization" are that Rome takes the Society "as is", able to criticize VCII (as in the quote above) and the NO openly and hold to its Traditional positions.
It seems that ever since rumors of an imminent deal came about, Bishop Fellay has now transformed, in the minds of some, into a demonic double agent who is worse than Paul VI or JPII and cannot be trusted at all. After how many years of faithful adherence to ABL and Tradition is he now completely rejected and demonized?
I can understand the frustration with his cordial/ patient approach to Rome, but I fear some have completely written him off. In that case, why stay with the Society? Why not split off now? How can one remain a Society adherent and also believe the Superior General is Satan incarnate?
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Bishop Fellay avoid the issue of Doctrinal Differences(Accepting Vatican II or not),
Instead, He open the Season II of Rome-SSPX Deal.
Canonical Normalisation
To be fair, faithful can never say they were not warned. Criticism of Vatican II will be a thing of the past when the SSPX is 'normalised'. Bishop Williamson did warn when in Asia that the devil will attack the chapels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Ra9Ac3tfE
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I suppose the General Chapter can be summarised as being a meeting to discuss "eventual canonical normalization". Perhaps Wessex was not far off the mark when he suggested it would be a claps on the back, well done old chap type of meeting.
The 'trouble makers' were excluded and it was business as usual for Bishop Fellay. The 9 haven't seem to have made any impact as the statement states clearly there will be an "eventual canonical normalization".
Did anybody Bishop Tissier etc etc raise a hand and make any objections? Was anybody at the meeting vocal in expressing disgust at the exclusion of Bishop Williamson?
It was certainly the non event as stated previously and I think we can conclude the door to Rome is still open and a canonical normalization is certain.
Being honest I don't see even Bishop Tissier consecrating new Bishops. It was very much a it was to be expected time meeting.
What I heard from a trustful source is that Bishop Tissier had a hot discussion with Bishop Fellay before the GC inside a sacristy. It was so intense that people from outside could hear Bishop Tissier saying that if he, Bishop Fellay, make a deal with Rome, he would be obligate to consacrate new Bishops.
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I can understand the frustration with his cordial/ patient approach to Rome, but I fear some have completely written him off. In that case, why stay with the Society? Why not split off now? How can one remain a Society adherent and also believe the Superior General is Satan incarnate?
It was more than just rumors. Bishop Fellay indicated that he would make the decision alone since his "grace of state" made approval by the General Chapter unnecessary, despite its 2006 resolution to the contrary.
This God-sent reprieve preserves unity of Archbishop Lefebvre's legacy but Bishop Fellay has certainly lost the trust of many. Perhaps he can be blocked or will voluntarily stop this nonsense for the remainder of his term.
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Excellent statement!
The following are the money lines. Reasserting Tradition. There is no possible way that Abp. Muller or Di Noia will be agreeing to this.
To me this statement is a line in the sand. Accept us "as is" or don't accept us. Either way, we'll stick to Tradition.
The Society continues to uphold the declarations and the teachings of the constant Magisterium of the Church in regard to all the novelties of the Second Vatican Council which remain tainted with errors, and also in regard to the reforms issued from it. We find our sure guide in this uninterrupted Magisterium which, by its teaching authority, transmits the revealed Deposit of Faith in perfect harmony with the truths that the entire Church has professed, always and everywhere.
I don't think a very good translation and perhaps should read:
Regarding all the innovations of the Second Vatican Council that remain tainted with errors and the reforms that have come from it, the Society can only continue to adhere (uphold) to the declarations and teaching of the Magisterium of the Church. etc...
Stevusmagnus, I don't believe in calling anyone injurious names ... let he who is without sin... He is a priest, chosen by God and will answer to Him.
However, much as I would like to believe Bishop Fellay I'm afraid that his secrecy has sewn much distrust and discord. We choose to go to the Society Mass and to support it. If there is to be a major change, then we should have some knowledge and not be kept in the dark.
This last public statement says nothing really, my interpretation doesn't say there is no deal, just that it will take more time and that a 'deliberative chapter' will be involved - and who will they be? An assurance that it will be on SSPX terms ... really? The last time it seemed to be on Rome's terms.
It's apparent cessation due to opposition, with the comment 'obnoxious' being used (although I believe harmful is a better translation). Whichever way, are those who opposed and spoke out to be expelled? I signed the 'impertinent' letter ... not brilliantly written but in essence it was right to oppose. Will I become persona non grata?
I am not reassured by this latest release - confirmation of our commitment to tradition, ongoing negotiations and a lot of waffle around it.
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"The Holy See has taken note of this declaration, but awaits the forthcoming official communication of the Priestly Society as their dialogue with the Pontifical Commission 'Ecclesia Dei' continues".
Whilst this is to be expected from the Holy See, the SSPX have never stated the discussions are at an end.
What is this "forthcoming official communication" and when is it expected?
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Negotiations is probably a more suitable word
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It all makes sense to me now.
The posted You Tube from Militant Church TV news roundup on 7/16 was correct. It reported that the SSPX was demanding a retraction from Jose Manuel Vidal for his No-Deal announcement. We now know for certain that the SSPX district superior for Spain and Portugal did such thing, we also know for certain that the deal is not completely dead nor does +Fellay want to give that impression. It also said that the reply from the SSPX to Rome could reunite them completely.
Before the 6/13 fiasco, (yes, call it a broken record) +Fellay was ready to sign (according to Fr. Nely) and had made it clear the the General Chapter was not going to discuss the deal with Rome, only to lay down the new statutes from Rome. Then, on June 13, he changed his mind and he said to Rome that he had to consult with the General Chapter confident of the votes to exclude +Williamson and to send another proposal to Rome. Very clever! Now, he can officially bring the SSPX to Rome with all its assets and there is nothing the other bishops can do (hope I'm wrong about this) except pick up the pieces and start again. I pray they do, they will have God on their side and the Faithful.
Yes, it is true that he has to call the General Chapter again to approve, but he already has the votes.
John Grace said it well:
Quote:
We have determined and approved the necessary conditions for an eventual canonical normalization (General Chapter Statement)
Quote:
“This is a new concept which we know the Traditionalists will not be able to accept immediately. Convincing them will take time, and in this respect we will have to be patient.”(Archbishop Di Noia)
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I realise the Apostles hid for fear of the Jews but the manner the SSPX appeased Jews in recent times makes it difficult for them to engage in a frontal attack on these enemies of Christ.Not only did they bow down to the enemies of Our Lord but have allowed this Krah right in to the centre of the Society
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10236&st=25
The SSPX communiqué today is just a covering letter from Bp Fellay and Rome itself has said that it ‘awaits the forthcoming official Communication of the Priestly Fraternity as their dialogue with the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei" continues.’ So where is the statement of the General Chapter which we have been promised. This communiqué is pure flim flam and not the statement we were promised. I kept reading through it awaiting the punch line, but it was not there.
From a priestly source, I have learnt that the actual docuмent, which we are still awaiting, does not specify a doctrinal agreement before any regularisation. Clearly a practical agreement is still on the cards and is just a matter of time. The majority of the General Chapter are just cardboard now rather like the majority of bishops at Vatican II and act under this false idea of obedience.
I agree with Bertha in the analysis above that it is just a matter of time.The SSPX is finished to be honest. They have no intention of ending these "discussions"
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So what will happen these honourable clerics who were reprimanded in varying ways for opposing a deal? Cast out for wishing to remain faithful to the apostolate of the Archbishop.To write of unity and yet Bishop Williamson was not praying with them at the tomb of the Archbishop. Bishop Fellay has some cheek to speak of unity.
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Bishop Fellay avoid the issue of Doctrinal Differences(Accepting Vatican II or not),
Instead, He open the Season II of Rome-SSPX Deal.
Canonical Normalisation
Did you not see the following:
The Society continues to uphold the declarations and the teachings of the constant Magisterium of the Church in regard to all the novelties of the Second Vatican Council which remain tainted with errors, and also in regard to the reforms issued from it.
The Society has ALWAYS been "open" to canonical normilization. ABL was. That is nothing new. The "conditions of normalization" are that Rome takes the Society "as is", able to criticize VCII (as in the quote above) and the NO openly and hold to its Traditional positions.
It seems that ever since rumors of an imminent deal came about, Bishop Fellay has now transformed, in the minds of some, into a demonic double agent who is worse than Paul VI or JPII and cannot be trusted at all. After how many years of faithful adherence to ABL and Tradition is he now completely rejected and demonized?
I can understand the frustration with his cordial/ patient approach to Rome, but I fear some have completely written him off. In that case, why stay with the Society? Why not split off now? How can one remain a Society adherent and also believe the Superior General is Satan incarnate?
:applause:
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I agree with John Vennari's take:
http://www.cfnews.org/page10/page52/comment_by_vennari.html
Brief Commentary on the SSPX General Chapter Statement
July 19, 2012
As a number of people have asked for an opinion about today's SSPX General Chapter Statement, I'll give my initial thoughts.
The Statement is pretty much what I thought it would be: it appears to be a diplomatic 'no' to the Doctrinal Preamble, but does not shut out future discussions. I am glad the SSPX reiterated its rejection of the 'errors of Vatican II', which in the present climate, is more of an explosive statement than I think many realize. This is precisely what Pope Benedict, and bishops Müller and Di Noia cannot abide, the claim that Vatican II contains errors. Both Di Noia and Müller have insisted that the SSPX may not claim there are errors in Vatican II. Müller has stated that full recognition of the Council is an indespensible condition for any sort of 'regularization'. We’ll see what unfolds in the future.
The SSPX's public adherence to what they rightly call the "constant Magisterium" and "uniterrupted Magisterium" is a well-deserved slap-down to the modernist notion of "Living Tradition" on which the entire post-Conciliar Church runs. This will not be lost on today's Vatican.
The fact that the SSPX said they await the day for a serious debate, to me, is their way of saying that the discussions so far have not really been serious. From all appearances, it seems the Vatican gave the SSPX in June 2012 basically the same statement the SSPX refused to sign in September 2011. That’s quite an insult, especially after nearly three years of doctrinal discussion by which the Vatican should know the SSPX's position.
Also, Bishop Fellay’s statement in the earlier interview that “doctrinal mutism is not the answer” (and here I speculate) may be a response to the Vatican perhaps insisting the SSPX draw in its horns regarding criticism of Vatican II, the New Mass, and the new post-Conciliar orientation. This is precisely what I was told when I visited the Vatican's Ecclesia Dei office in 1994.
John Vennari
Catholic Family News
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Vennari seems to believe the SSPX leadership will now wait for a "serious debate" of the doctrinal issues before engaging in additional discussions on a reconciliation. Let's hope he's right. Any further flirtation with a practical agreement would discount his theory. Based on Menzingen's recent track record, I'm not holding my breath. :furtive:
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Vennari seems to believe the SSPX leadership will now wait for a "serious debate" of the doctrinal issues before engaging in additional discussions on a reconciliation. Let's hope he's right. Any further flirtation with a practical agreement would discount his theory. Based on Menzingen's recent track record, I'm not holding my breath. :furtive:
The truth is I like John, but at the end of the day he knows that (if he doesn't regulate his statements) CFN will no longer circulate through the rank and file of the Neo-SSPX. +Fellay has the power to crush CFN.
+Fellay and his ilk must go (with or without the buildings). He has bastardized Traditional Catholicism and the Archbishop's work!
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Vennari seems to believe the SSPX leadership will now wait for a "serious debate" of the doctrinal issues before engaging in additional discussions on a reconciliation. Let's hope he's right. Any further flirtation with a practical agreement would discount his theory. Based on Menzingen's recent track record, I'm not holding my breath. :furtive:
The truth is I like John, but at the end of the day he knows that (if he doesn't regulate his statements) CFN will no longer circulate through the rank and file of the Neo-SSPX. In his eyes he might win the battle but lose the war. Remember, +Fellay has the power to crush CFN.
+Fellay and his ilk must go (with or without the buildings). He has bastardized Traditional Catholicism and the Archbishop's work!
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A post here from Josef.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10236&st=50
Some results of the General Chapter:
1. A practical agreement with the Conciliar Church has not been ruled out. Far from it!
(“We have determined and approved the necessary conditions for an eventual canonical normalization.”)
2. As a result of the General Chapter in 2006 theological clarifications were a precondition for any practical agreement. After the last Chapter that’s no longer mentioned.
3. The Superior General has managed to neutralise Bishop Williamson, who accepted his exclusion from the Chapter for some inexplicable reason. (From the Bishops Tissier and Galarreta no protest against this unlawful sanction was heard.)
So has or will the two Bishops be more vocal regarding this unlawful sanction of the Bishop? There was mention of a heated conversation in a sacristy but they both need to show a bit more teeth. They are to be commended though for the earlier letter opposing an agreement. I realise they will act in their own way.
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http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10251
From Bishop Tissier’s biography of Archbishop Lefebvre, pp. 547-8. The Pope must be having a feeling of déjà vu (in part).
QUOTE
On July 14 [1987], Cardinal Ratzinger received Archbishop Lefebvre at the Holy Office . . . before talking about concessions, the Cardinal made a threat: the consequence of an illicit episcopal consecration would be "schism and excommunication".
"Schism?" retorted the Archbishop. "If there is a schism, it is because of what the Vatican did at Assisi and how you replied to our Dubia [on Religious Liberty]; the Church is breaking with the traditional Magisterium. But the Church against her past and her Tradition is not the Catholic Church; this is why being excommunicated by an ecuмenical, liberal, and revolutionary Church is a matter of indifference to us."
. . . Joseph Ratzinger gave in: "Let us find a practical solution. Make a moderate declaration on the Council and the new missal a bit like the one Jean Guitton has suggested to you. Then, we would give you a bishop for ordinations, we could work out an arrangement with the diocesan bishops, and you could continue as you are doing. Ask for a Cardinal Protector, make your suggestions."
. . . Rome was giving in! But his [Lefebvre’s] penetrating faith went to the very heart of the Cardinal’s rejection of doctrine. He said to himself: "So, must Jesus no longer reign? Is Jesus no longer God? Rome has lost the Faith. Rome is in apostasy. We can no longer trust this lot!" To the Cardinal he said:
"Eminence, even if you give us everything – a bishop, some autonomy from the bishops, the 1962 liturgy, allow us to continue our seminaries – we cannot work together because we are going in different directions. You are working to dechristianize society and the Church, and we are working to Christianize them.
"For us our Lord Jesus Christ is everything. He is our life. The Church is our Lord Jesus Christ; the priest is another Christ; the Mass is the triumph of Jesus Christ on the cross; in our seminaries everything tends towards the reign of our Lord Jesus Christ. But you! You are doing the opposite: you have just wanted to prove to me that our Lord Jesus Christ cannot, and must not, reign over society." (Archbishop Lefebvre, notes from the interview.)
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Whilst certainly pro-Fellay and dismissive of Krahgate until very recently, Sarto as they call him makes good points here.
http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=10236&st=50
Clemens Maria and Bertha have managed to articulate very well what I too feel about the current situation.
I haven't been commenting much lately because, frankly, I'm beginning to get (for want of a better word) Fellay Fatigue syndrome.
I'm just utterly, utterly sick of all this nonsense. And no matter how much one hopes and prays for something that will throw light on the situation and allow souls to see some home-truths, even not very pleasant ones, it never comes.
The SSPX in turmoil, Menzingen punishing the best priests and rewarding the most mediocre and worldly ones. That's definite. Anything more about what's going on behind the scenes, we're to be kept in the dark as much as possible.
And in the meantime we wait. Nothing. Just deadline after deadline, press release after press release, each one as boring, pointless and instantly forgettable as the last. Interview after interview, all of which purport to be about the things we all want to hear, but which are done by lackey-sycophant interviewers, ask soft-ball questions, and don't even properly answer even them. Talk of "road maps" and soppy, teenage-girl-crush-like stuff about how wonderful the Pope is.
The SSPX has work to be getting on with. Even if it definitely decided not to enter into any agreement for the rest of this Pontificate (and it isn't definitely confirmed that we're past that danger) this has all still had a hugely negative effect on the SSPX overall. There is work that the SSPX needs to be getting on with, which ought to be seen as far more important that all this stuff.
And let's not be lulled by all these PC/management-speak press releases and interviews. Read and re-read Abp. Lefebvre, don't let yourself go soft. Remember the Dominicans and Fransiscans - what happened to their ordinations? That is an injustice which still cries out, and all the waffly interviews in the world won't make me fotget it.
Very few are lulled by these "PC/management-speak press releases and interviews" and this is a constant problem for Bishop Fellay and Menzingen.Some coloured chap once had a song called 'Don't Believe The Hype'.
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There is work that the SSPX needs to be getting on with, which ought to be seen as far more important that all this stuff.
I also agree with Sarto here on this point.