Author Topic: Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution  (Read 1519 times)

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Offline Matthew

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  • Downthumb EVERYONE who participated in any of the threads! That should discourage threads that need discouraging. That's what the down-thumb feature is there for.

    Up thumb = "I want to see more posts like this"
    Down thumb = "We don't need posts like this"


    The more people who are interested in Gerard, Fr. Kramer, the more activity those threads are going to have, and the more threads there are going to be about that topic.

    I'm not going to muscle into a thread with 20 members participating and say, "We don't need to be talking about this. Thread deleted!" If that many people care, if that many people feel the need to discuss this -- then who am I to judge? What else is a discussion forum for?

    I personally am completely un-interested in the topic. It touches on the Crisis, so I can't pontificate about who is wrong, who is right, and who should be banned. With regards to what we must believe about the Crisis, there is no authority to condemn anyone. Much less me!

    But if someone denies a dogma of the Faith, I can merely hold a copy of the catechism in my hand, and ban them as a person who can read the Catechism of the Council of Trent. That doesn't make me a de-facto pope, dictator, or sectarian in any way. That is mere common sense and human reason, which I do claim for myself.

    As for "behavior", I can't even act on that, because most members here are imperfect humans, who want to win an argument, lose our temper from time to time, occasionally resort to ad-hominems, love to defend members who agree with us, etc.

    And let's not forget how strongly MOST of us feel about our beliefs. After all, we're talking about the blessed Faith for crying out loud! It's not exactly something we can be indifferent about, like Coke vs. Pepsi or Apple vs. Microsoft. If someone disagrees with us, it would SEEM that he is a heretic and must be denounced and condemned. That's the fundamental problem with getting a group of fervent Traditional Catholics together. I know this well, having run CathInfo for the past 10 years.

    So when it comes to banning people for being "uncharitable", it's a classic case of "let him who is without sin cast the first stone". Like the famous anecdote in the Gospel, everyone would have to walk away, one by one.

    If I banned Gerard from FE (and made a few people happy in the process), who would be next? Most members here have an enemy or two they'd like to see gone. I can't start down that road of killing free speech and decimating the forum membership. I'm not looking for an echo chamber here.

    So that is why my solution is: there is a down-thumb button. USE IT. It works. Far too few people avail themselves of this feature. It seems that most posts only get 1 or 2 votes at all, if any. Remember, even brand-new members can vote! There are no restrictions on voting on posts aside from "you can't be more than 17% of a person's downvotes". Your own rep score doesn't allow you to vote more/less, your length of time on CathInfo doesn't, and your number of posts doesn't.

    I can understand before, when CI was much slower, it was a pain to vote on many posts. But now the site is on a much faster server, and everything happens almost instantly.
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    Offline hollingsworth

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #1 on: June 02, 2016, 01:41:15 PM »
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  • Matthew:
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    I personally am completely un-interested in the topic.


    Me too.


    Offline B from A

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #2 on: June 02, 2016, 02:05:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    Matthew:
    Quote
    I personally am completely un-interested in the topic.


    Me too.


    Me three.  
    Wish there was an easy way to down-thumb whole threads; too time-consuming to down-thumb zillions of individual posts.

    Offline Matthew

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #3 on: June 02, 2016, 02:19:33 PM »
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  • Quote from:  B from A
    Quote from: hollingsworth
    Matthew:
    Quote
    I personally am completely un-interested in the topic.


    Me too.


    Me three.  
    Wish there was an easy way to down-thumb whole threads; too time-consuming to down-thumb zillions of individual posts.


    That would be interesting --

    Although in some threads, it would become unwieldy. It might prevent people from posting in certain threads, since if the thread goes south, it will get lots of downvotes and then even the GOOD posts would be killed alongside the bad.

    That wouldn't be fair.
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    Offline Gerard from FE

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #4 on: June 02, 2016, 04:06:01 PM »
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  • Quote from:  B from A
    Quote from: hollingsworth
    Matthew:
    Quote
    I personally am completely un-interested in the topic.


    Me too.


    Me three.  
    Wish there was an easy way to down-thumb whole threads; too time-consuming to down-thumb zillions of individual posts.


    Me four.

    This dust up is the result of my not "going along to get along" when these Neo-Trads have gone off the rails with their evaluations of the crisis.  

    Instead of clearly evaluating the situation from objective points of view, they have an emotional attachment to the crisis and seem to have been sucked into an addictive pattern.  

    I simply pointed out that to compare the Novus Ordo as Paul VI published it, is not equivalent of worse than a Black Mass in which in its fullest form involves the abuse of a child, his murder and the cannibalization of him as well as defilement of the Holy Eucharist.  

    So, for that I'm a "subversive" who is suddenly an advocate for the Novus Ordo.  

    This has lead to the smear campaign.  

    The latest salvo and the Fr. Kramer nonsense occurred when someone posted the famous non-quote of Bugnini about stripping from Catholic prayers everything that could be a stumbling block to the Protestants.,  

    I simply pointed out that the quote is not accurate and put the real quote up.  It's not nearly as emotionally jarring or the sexy bit of condemnable proof that trads think it is.  It is what it is and should be dealt with accordingly.  If Bugnini didn't hang himself with the quote like people thought, then they have to find something else, something legitimate.   You can't charge someone with first degree murder if you find out the pre-meditation was falsified,  a good prosecutor will reduce the charge to something that can be proven.  

    The second quote posted in order to sway me (presumably from a position I don't hold towards the position held by those that aren't interested in reality but rather hooked into the emotions of the crisis) was the famous Dietrich von Hildebrand quote about one of the demons from C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters could not have ruined the liturgy more than what resulted in the Novus Ordo.  

    My reply was simply that in the same book, von Hildebrand does not claim the Novus Ordo is so bad that people should refrain from fulfilling their Sunday obligation by attending it.  He stated they should attend it, and pray all the harder for a restoration.  

    I never said I agreed with that in toto.  I simply wanted to make sure that von Hildebrand and Bugnini were both being truthfully represented.  

    But the truth seems to have slipped by the wayside in deference to the figurative pitchforks and torches crowd.  

    The attachment they have to their poisonous attitudes and erroneous beliefs are starting to cause problems in traditionalism.  I'm sure the election and behavior of Francis has also resulted in a magnetic shift for people to be lured into their ideas.  

    There seems to be spiritual element to this as well.  The demons are obviously working on trads in a different way than previously, trads with a lot of influence are becoming corrupted in their works.  They forego the truth in favor of their agendas.  That will ultimately nullify their effectiveness because their decisions will impede graces that they need to continue their work effectively.  So, they will either fade away or become tools of the enemy.  


    What Malachi Martin warned about 25 years ago is taking root concerning the divisions in tradition.  Bishop Williamson has obviously noticed it and is making efforts to reign it in to the best of his ability to persuade people to return to sanity.

    One could argue that Bishop Fellay is reconciling the SSPX because of these people and their deviations from the truth.  His "fear of a real schism" referenced in his letter to the three bishops is not without foundation.  His solution is a disaster and in his weakness he doesn't see the need to be strong in tradition and fight the exaggerations the Devil pushes people towards in any direction but the truth.  


    I've been fighting independently since I've noticed this particular problem but  I've received moral support on more than one occasion from some well-known and respected traditional luminaries as well as regular lay faithful that appreciate my little contributions. Of course, they might turn away or I might fumble as well, but I can't let that stop me from doing my moral duty and using the gifts I've been given for the most important tasks.

      So I will keep fighting for the truth, for traditional Catholicism and I will keep pushing and pushing against every error I spot, until I get the indication that God wants me to stop and either do something else or someone else better than me steps up to the plate and takes on the crisis head on.  



    Offline ihsv

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #5 on: June 02, 2016, 04:07:58 PM »
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  • Gerard, it's over.  Drop it.  No need to bring it to this thread.
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed

    Offline Gerard from FE

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #6 on: June 02, 2016, 04:41:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: ihsv
    Gerard, it's over.  Drop it.  No need to bring it to this thread.


    I think it's worth it on a thread with my name in the title that I present  a recap of the events for people that didn't follow along as the attacks developed.  

     





    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #7 on: June 02, 2016, 05:07:09 PM »
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  • Isn't FE where they condone sodomy?
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Gerard from FE

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #8 on: June 02, 2016, 05:56:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    Isn't FE where they condone sodomy?


    Long before that issue came to the fore, I was banned from F.E. because I didn't think Pope Benedict XVI was particularly traditional.  

    If you see my posts that are still over there, you see:

    Quote
    Gerard
    Banned for disrespecting the Holy Father, snarkiness, and rad-traddy negativism


    When I first signed up on Cathinfo, I couldn't take the name "Gerard" because someone else had it.  Though I have never seen anyone post with that name.

    I put the "from FE" at the time because in various forums people would write and ask me if I was "that" Gerard from Envoy, Catholic Answers, Fisheaters, New Republic etc.

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #9 on: June 02, 2016, 07:46:47 PM »
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  • Gerard:
    Quote
    I never said I agreed with that in toto.  I simply wanted to make sure that von Hildebrand and Bugnini were both being truthfully represented.  


    Nothing wrong with that.

    Gerard:  
    Quote
    But the truth seems to have slipped by the wayside in deference to the figurative pitchforks and torches crowd.  


    Yeah.  Some trads can get a bit hysterical about things.  They begin to champion certain myths, including alleged quotes from churchmen and prominent lay folks which may not be true.

     
    Quote
    What Malachi Martin warned about 25 years ago is taking root concerning the divisions in tradition.  Bishop Williamson has obviously noticed it and is making efforts to reign it in to the best of his ability to persuade people to return to sanity.


    Yes, and in Williamson's case, some overwrought  trads begin to think that he is deliberately sanctioning the New Mass, and encouraging attendance at it.

    Offline JPaul

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #10 on: June 02, 2016, 09:17:48 PM »
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  • How about giving Gerard his own sub forum as was necessary for LoE to allow Traditional members room to discuss things free of conciliar propaganda and disruption?


    Offline Gerard from FE

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #11 on: June 02, 2016, 10:34:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: J.Paul
    How about giving Gerard his own sub forum as was necessary for LoE to allow Traditional members room to discuss things free of conciliar propaganda and disruption?


    I'd take you up on that on the condition that you could actually prove your accusations against me.

    The trouble with that is, you are lying about me.  

    Offline JPaul

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #12 on: June 03, 2016, 07:47:32 AM »
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  • Quote from: Gerard from FE
    Quote from: J.Paul
    How about giving Gerard his own sub forum as was necessary for LoE to allow Traditional members room to discuss things free of conciliar propaganda and disruption?


    I'd take you up on that on the condition that you could actually prove your accusations against me.

    The trouble with that is, you are lying about me.  


    Yes Gerard, I am lying with you own words.  :facepalm:

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    Offline Gerard from FE

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #13 on: June 03, 2016, 08:38:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: J.Paul
    Quote from: Gerard from FE
    Quote from: J.Paul
    How about giving Gerard his own sub forum as was necessary for LoE to allow Traditional members room to discuss things free of conciliar propaganda and disruption?


    I'd take you up on that on the condition that you could actually prove your accusations against me.

    The trouble with that is, you are lying about me.  


    Yes Gerard, I am lying with you own words.  :facepalm:

                                           CathInfo

    Traditional Catholic Forum
    A place for SSPX, Resistance and other Traditional Catholics to discuss news and matters pertaining to the Catholic Faith

    Do you understand?



    Yes. I understand.  Anyone who disagrees with you about anything is not a traditional Catholic.

    In your mind that is.  And that justifies you in making any assertion and accusation you want regardless of whether it's true or not,

    Offline JPaul

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    Sick of Fr. Kramer and Gerard of FE threads - Simple solution
    « Reply #14 on: June 03, 2016, 10:28:05 AM »
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  • I don't think that the thumbs down thing is working. It seems that posts which are opposed to conciliar expert are being thumbed down in numbers that I have rarely seen here before 7+9 thumbs down on posts by different people???

    The only thing that they have in common is disagreement with Gerard.

    Is Gerard really that popular or could someone be doing multiple thumbs up on their own, and multiple thumbs down on other's posts?




     

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