All day long today we have been trying to figure out if by staying home from Mass tomorrow to show our disapproval of Bishop Williamson expulsion would be a good idea. If the numbers were low at SSPX chapels would it have any impact on Menzingen? Any thoughts?

My advice would be to follow the advice of Bishop Williamson. Perhaps there will be an opportunity to speak with the priests after Mass.

SSPX laity might attend SSPX Masses for the time being, but they should watch out for the moment when the transformation mentioned above begins to threaten their faith. As for the excluded bishop, any donations to him or his cause will have to wait a little until the necessary arrangements can be set up. But be sure of one thing: he is not thinking of retiring.

Hang tight, everybody. We are in for one “helluva” ride. Let’s just make that a ride to Heaven !

Kyrie eleison.

I'm going to do what Bishop Williamson said. Go to the SSPX chapel until it risks my families faith.

Quote from: subpallaeMariae

All day long today we have been trying to figure out if by staying home from Mass tomorrow to show our disapproval of Bishop Williamson expulsion would be a good idea. If the numbers were low at SSPX chapels would it have any impact on Menzingen? Any thoughts?

… It's up to your conscience at this point in the crisis.

We will continue going for a while yet but we really don't see ourselves attending their chapels by Lent. …

As a fellow admirer (at the very least) of Bishop Williamson, permit me to fraternally urge you both to a reconsideration of your positions. It has been credibly alleged that certain of the more radical Fellayites have taken to acting in such a way as to mirror the actions, over the last two decades, of SSPVers and adherents of the various other SV permutations. That is to say, they have worked to cleanse their churchly stables of laypeople whom their hypersensitive antennae detect as failing to join them in confusing clerical and liturgical politics with the Faith itself. If going to certain websites can now be deemed a mortal sin, how much more grievous is it to deny a Catholic the sacraments for failing to root for the "right" supervisory team? But if we can agree that ordained priests have no right to act in such a way, isn't there a concomitant obligation on the layman's part not to absent himself overhurriedly from the most direct access to God's grace?

I can't speak for either of you, of course, but over the course of my sixty-seven years I have heard several dumpsters' worth of rubbish in Sunday sermons—and, alas, by no means all of it dated from my three-plus decades as a conciliar neocatholic. But grown-ups are expected to deal with such things and get a move on, aren't they? To paraphrase (and embellish a bit) what His Excellency wrote in the latest EC, by all means keep your guard up, but endure as much as you possibly can—and then endure some more. We humans are creatures of habit, sad to say, and the habit of not going to Mass—the True Mass, that is, irrespective of the celebrant—once acquired, can become as hard to break as any other. I sincerely believe that the risks of absenting oneself from the True Mass ought to be engaged only when the risks of going have gotten several orders of magnitude graver than they now are.

Put nothing in the basket, it is the language Menzigen understands the best.  

Your local pastor will not go hungry and the districts have plenty of coin to cover the bills, especially with so many clerics collecting their 30 pieces of silver.

When things get so bad, and if you have alternatives (CMRI, SSPV, or valid independent), I would consider them before denying yourself and your family the Sacraments.

I was taught (I think I was, anyway) that to purposely not go to Mass on Sunday with no valid excuse was a mortal sin? Would that apply here?

Quote from: Lepanto Again

Quote from: subpallaeMariae

All day long today we have been trying to figure out if by staying home from Mass tomorrow to show our disapproval of Bishop Williamson expulsion would be a good idea. If the numbers were low at SSPX chapels would it have any impact on Menzingen? Any thoughts?

… It's up to your conscience at this point in the crisis.

We will continue going for a while yet but we really don't see ourselves attending their chapels by Lent. …

As a fellow admirer (at the very least) of Bishop Williamson, permit me to fraternally urge you both to a reconsideration of your positions. It has been credibly alleged that certain of the more radical Fellayites have taken to acting in such a way as to mirror the actions, over the last two decades, of SSPVers and adherents of the various other SV permutations. That is to say, they have worked to cleanse their churchly stables of laypeople whom their hypersensitive antennae detect as failing to join them in confusing clerical and liturgical politics with the Faith itself. If going to certain websites can now be deemed a mortal sin, how much more grievous is it to deny a Catholic the sacraments for failing to root for the "right" supervisory team? But if we can agree that ordained priests have no right to act in such a way, isn't there a concomitant obligation on the layman's part not to absent himself overhurriedly from the most direct access to God's grace?

I can't speak for either of you, of course, but over the course of my sixty-seven years I have heard several dumpsters' worth of rubbish in Sunday sermons—and, alas, by no means all of it dated from my three-plus decades as a conciliar neocatholic. But grown-ups are expected to deal with such things and get a move on, aren't they?


 To paraphrase (and embellish a bit) what His Excellency wrote in the latest EC, by all means keep your guard up, but endure as much as you possibly can—and then endure some more. We humans are creatures of habit, sad to say, and the habit of not going to Mass—the True Mass, that is, irrespective of the celebrant—once acquired, can become as hard to break as any other. I sincerely believe that the risks of absenting oneself from the True Mass ought to be engaged only when the risks of going have gotten several orders of magnitude graver than they now are.

I'm sorry but what "you" believe is being more than just "embellished", specially when dealing with such a serious, personal and difficult choice.

Where did EC come even close to say "by all means keep your guard up, but endure as much as you possibly can—and then endure some more"??? If it was to endure attack against us I would agree with your assertion but endure things that goes against moral and consequently the faith?

What I read from H.E on EC was: "SSPX priests who "see clear" might lie low for the moment and wait for a flock of chickens to begin to come home to roost. SSPX laity might attend SSPX Masses for the time being, but they should watch out for the moment when the transformation mentioned above begins to threaten their faith”.

If one might still attend SSPX Masses for the time being, it implicit means one might not attend it in case the transformations threatens their faith.

Now, considering we are truly "humans and creatures of habit", as you rightly said, hearing that 95% of VII is acceptable, that Religious Liberty is very very very limited, that things we have condemned in the past about VII wasn't really from the Council but the interpretation of it, that we would like to hope VII can be part of tradition, that +Williamson is disobedient and rebellious, that we are back to square one (meaning St. Peter square?), that we have profound unity, etc.; is definitely not a habit I'm looking forward to acquire, far from it! God forbid it!

So my point is: We shouldn't judge nor embellish anything or anybody when it comes to this serious and hard decision. Your conscience might still allow you to go as long it won't threaten your faith, just as it might not allow you to go because it has already threatened your faith and morals.

Just for the record, I've seen traditional priests as well as religious giving permission for the faithful, both in the U.S and Canada, not to attend a SSPX Mass as it sits right now.

This is a very well-spoken thread, and I'd have to quote all the posts if I were to
quote any of them.  

But this one I'd like to reply to:

...We humans are creatures of habit, sad to say, and the habit of not going to Mass—the True Mass, that is, irrespective of the celebrant—once acquired, can become as hard to break as any other. I sincerely believe that the risks of absenting oneself from the True Mass ought to be engaged only when the risks of going have gotten several orders of magnitude graver than they now are.

My only thought is, that if you do go, do not put dollars in the collection plate, but
put a note instead in, explaining what your concern is, that you refuse to fund
an ill will mill, or whatever.  Only if enough of the faithful do this today and next
week and the week after, etc., will Menzingen wake up to the reality that they are
on the wrong track.  If we do not speak quietly with a silent note in the basket
instead of silent money today, there may come a day soon when we are forced
to speak much more loudly and with much more consequence.  Do it now and
save yourself the grief later, perhaps.  





BTW there was a solid jolt this morning in L.A., about 3.9 magnitude, at 8:25 am,
epicenter near Newhall (Santa Clarita) about 20 miles north of Santa Monica.