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Author Topic: Should be the Official Picture of the Resistance  (Read 3413 times)

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Re: Should be the Official Picture of the Resistance
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2019, 11:09:09 PM »
So what exactly is your understanding of ultramontanism? What's the definition? And who came up with that definition?
OK good point, I'll grant that I'm using the colloquial one, the one that basically says like you've said that the Pope is infallibly safe on everything he says and never needs to be resisted.  I realize there's a different official definition, and I don't remember what that is off hand.  

Re: Should be the Official Picture of the Resistance
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2019, 11:16:18 PM »
OK good point, I'll grant that I'm using the colloquial one, the one that basically says like you've said that the Pope is infallibly safe on everything he says and never needs to be resisted.  I realize there's a different official definition, and I don't remember what that is off hand.  
"Beyond the mountains" would be the transliteration. European description. over the Alps in to Italy.

The Pope when teaching to the whole church in matters of faith and morals is infallibly safe to follow. It might not be infallible in the strictest sense of the word because it's not ex cathedra, but his teachings and commands to the whole church can NOT contain pernicious errors. The Pope can say that the moon is made out of cheese, but he can't teach that public adulterers can receive Holy Communion (Franky!).

This isn't my opinion. This is the teaching of the Church's theologians on the Magisterium and Infallibility.


Re: Should be the Official Picture of the Resistance
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2019, 11:43:25 PM »
"Beyond the mountains" would be the transliteration. European description. over the Alps in to Italy.

The Pope when teaching to the whole church in matters of faith and morals is infallibly safe to follow. It might not be infallible in the strictest sense of the word because it's not ex cathedra, but his teachings and commands to the whole church can NOT contain pernicious errors. The Pope can say that the moon is made out of cheese, but he can't teach that public adulterers can receive Holy Communion (Franky!).

This isn't my opinion. This is the teaching of the Church's theologians on the Magisterium and Infallibility.
Which ones?  Were they infallible?  

I haven't read Amoris Laetetia, but this seems to be an issue of subjective culpability.  Though I think its grossly irresponsible to even mess around with that sort of thing.  Those who are objectively in grave sin shouldn't be allowed to commune, period, even if God alone knows their hearts.

I'm not sure this is technically *heresy*, it seems more like gross pastoral negligence, but you probably think a Pope can't do that either.

Re: Should be the Official Picture of the Resistance
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2019, 12:01:59 AM »
Which ones?  Were they infallible?  

I haven't read Amoris Laetetia, but this seems to be an issue of subjective culpability.  Though I think its grossly irresponsible to even mess around with that sort of thing.  Those who are objectively in grave sin shouldn't be allowed to commune, period, even if God alone knows their hearts.

I'm not sure this is technically *heresy*, it seems more like gross pastoral negligence, but you probably think a Pope can't do that either.
Which ones what? What infallible?

Yeah. He makes it completely subjective and relative. If you feel like you can go to Communion, go ahead. Just discern properly.

This is called a sacrilege, ByzCat.

No, a Pope can't tell the whole Church that sacrilege is now okay. Or that adultery is acceptable. Obviously a Pope can't do that! 

If he can, what the heck is the point of the Papacy any way??

It doesn't matter what I think, ByzCat. It's what the Church teaches. And the Church has told us that the teaching and commands of the Roman Pontiff can not contain pernicious error.

It's honestly just common sense. If the Pope wasn't protected by the Holy Ghost, then how do you know that what you believe isn't evil? Most of the Catholic Faith hasn't been defined ex cathedra. How do you know it's true and safe to believe?

Re: Should be the Official Picture of the Resistance
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2019, 12:04:19 AM »
It's honestly just common sense. If the Pope wasn't protected by the Holy Ghost, then how do you know that what you believe isn't evil?
//

How do you know?  I mean you have to use your own private judgment to decide too, you just decide that he's not Pope too, if you don't like what he says.