Quote from: Zeitun

Quote from: tradical

I assume that you believe that I am responsible for the 'offline' status of Ignis Ardens ...

Wow, I didn't think that I was that powerful.

God bless!

Several people worked together to shut that site down. I know you weren't one of them.  Deo gratias.

Thank you.

God Bless!

 :roll-laugh2:
Trad, you completely missed the point.

Quote from: tradical

Many think they 'know' where I stand.

What they seem to fail to realize is that I stand upon Church teaching in my arguments.  

This truth is somewhat uncomfortable for some because it challenges their preconceived notions about the Church and Her teaching.

What you seem to be standing on is your own pomposity!

I have been told that I sound pompous before - usually on Ignis Ardens (RIP).

However, setting aside the ad hominem attacks that will follow, I present a short thesis:

1. The Pope is the visible head of the One, Holy, Roman Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ.

2. Pope Benedict XVI, was the Pope.

3. If the Pope wants a religious (priest, monk, bishop, nun) etc to do something that is not a sin - such as accepting a canonical regularization within the Church, which that Pope was the visible head of then:

4. To refuse to do so:

4a. Is an act of sinful disobedience.
4b. Is a refusal of submission to the Pope and could be construed as an act of schism.

This is the situation that Bishop Fellay found himself in last year.

( I think I can predict the objections that will now be raised - perhaps someone will surprise me ... )

For those of you who believe that the 'conciliar Church' is something more than merely a 'movement' that has infested the Mystical Body of Christ - you will not understand this but I will try to explain it for you.

The Church is indefectible, that is, she remains and will remain the Institution of Salvation, founded by Christ, until the end of the world. (Sent. certa.) - Ott

The Church founded by Christ is an extemal visible commonwealth. (Sent. certa.) - Ott

The visibility of the Church is tied to the visible hierarchy - including the Pope. (First Vatican Council)

If the Church, of which Pope Francis is the visible head, is not the One, Holy, Roman, Catholic Church ... then I ask you this question:

Where is the Church?

Try to answer this without violating any of the dogmas of the Church describing how the Church is visible, united to its visible head, indefectible and infallible (as She understands it).

For the sedevacantists who will now leap from the shadows (if they follow form as on Ignis Ardens):

Dogmatic Fact: When a Pope is recognized by the hierarchy as the Pope after an election - it is infallible.  This is tied to the indefectibility of the Church.

Therefore, it is necessary to provide proof that the Popes denied a de fide truth of the Faith in a manner that requires no 'judgement' on your part.

I'll make it plainer for you by providing a simple example: I, Pope (insert name here) reject the dogma of the Assumption.

or perhaps something more recent:

I, Pope (insert name here) declare that women can be ordained as Catholic Priestesses.

Anything short of an unambiguous declaration of heresy will not suffice.

May God bless all who read these words!

Quote from: ultrarigorist

Quote from: tradical

Many think they 'know' where I stand.

What they seem to fail to realize is that I stand upon Church teaching in my arguments.  

This truth is somewhat uncomfortable for some because it challenges their preconceived notions about the Church and Her teaching.

What you seem to be standing on is your own pomposity!

I have been told that I sound pompous before - usually on Ignis Ardens (RIP).

However, setting aside the ad hominem attacks that will follow, I present a short thesis:

1. The Pope is the visible head of the One, Holy, Roman Catholic Church, which is the Mystical Body of Christ.

2. Pope Benedict XVI, was the Pope.

3. If the Pope wants a religious (priest, monk, bishop, nun) etc to do something that is not a sin - such as accepting a canonical regularization within the Church, which that Pope was the visible head of then:

4. To refuse to do so:

4a. Is an act of sinful disobedience.
4b. Is a refusal of submission to the Pope and could be construed as an act of schism.

This is the situation that Bishop Fellay found himself in last year.

( I think I can predict the objections that will now be raised - perhaps someone will surprise me ... )

For those of you who believe that the 'conciliar Church' is something more than merely a 'movement' that has infested the Mystical Body of Christ - you will not understand this but I will try to explain it for you.

The Church is indefectible, that is, she remains and will remain the Institution of Salvation, founded by Christ, until the end of the world. (Sent. certa.) - Ott

The Church founded by Christ is an extemal visible commonwealth. (Sent. certa.) - Ott

The visibility of the Church is tied to the visible hierarchy - including the Pope. (First Vatican Council)

If the Church, of which Pope Francis is the visible head, is not the One, Holy, Roman, Catholic Church ... then I ask you this question:

Where is the Church?

Try to answer this without violating any of the dogmas of the Church describing how the Church is visible, united to its visible head, indefectible and infallible (as She understands it).

For the sedevacantists who will now leap from the shadows (if they follow form as on Ignis Ardens):

Dogmatic Fact: When a Pope is recognized by the hierarchy as the Pope after an election - it is infallible.  This is tied to the indefectibility of the Church.

Therefore, it is necessary to provide proof that the Popes denied a de fide truth of the Faith in a manner that requires no 'judgement' on your part.

I'll make it plainer for you by providing a simple example: I, Pope (insert name here) reject the dogma of the Assumption.

or perhaps something more recent:

I, Pope (insert name here) declare that women can be ordained as Catholic Priestesses.

Anything short of an unambiguous declaration of heresy will not suffice.

May God bless all who read these words!

Excellent work!!!  

Can you give an explanation of the following:

In the Church there is no law or jurisdiction which can impose on a Christian the diminution of his faith. All the faithful can and should resist what interferes with their faith… If they are faced with an order putting their faith in danger of corruption, there is an overriding duty to disobey… It is because we judge that our faith is endangered by the post-conciliar reforms and tendencies, that we have the duty to disobey and keep Tradition. Let us add this, that the greatest service we can render to the Church and to the successor of Peter is to reject the reformed and liberal church… I am not of that religion, I do not accept that new religion. It is a liberal, modernist religion. Christians are divided… priests no longer know what to do; either they obey blindly what their superiors impose on them, and lose to some degree the faith, or they resist, but with the feeling of separating themselves from the Pope. Two religions confront each other; we are in a dramatic situation, it is impossible to avoid a choice.” (Archbishop Lefebvre, 1986, “Open Letter to Confused Catholics”)

Bp. Sanborn's/Fr. Cekada's radio discussion last night on True Restoration covers the latest Roman farce and ridicules any idea that what you have there is the Church in action. An old structure housing a collection of thieves and sociopaths just about describes the place. They conspire to leech on the human heart and spirit using the sickness of conciliarism as their main instrument.

I am not surprised that we encounter the sudden appearance of people like this Sharon woman to frighten away critics of the status quo. Whether she was planted by Menzingen's outside agencies to secure the GB district or was part of another mainstream assault on Lefebvrism in general by journalists like Damian Thompson, the message here is not to expect anything other from a vested interest. The tactics of groupies are rather different. They invest a lot in blindly following a changing position and are expert in the art of denial.    

Consistent? you want consistent? You're  a consistent, obstinate Fellay-bot...eventually, hopefully, your Fellay-bot programming will break down and you can be a real trad again....but I won't discuss anything with  a Fellayite troll especially when we don't know your name and where your smarmy little self attends Mass...

good try Parents for Truth...but you just can't talk to a Fellay-bot...they'll just tell you what they sd in Jun 2012....their programming hasn't been updated and isn't likely to be..

If you don't understand your enemy, you end up like +Fellay and company. I had a good teacher, former SSPX priest Father Hector Bolduc (RIP) that understood the enemy, and dealt with them the way the Church teaches us to deal with enemies of the Church. You simply go back to the way it was, UNCHANGED before the Crisis of Faith, and until THEY convert back to Catholicism, you continue to practice the Catholic Faith.

"The Church is where the FAITH is." -- Saint Athanasius