Author Topic: SECRET SPECIAL CHAPTER OF NEO FSSPX (Read 63312 times)

drew · « **Reply #75 on:** April 10, 2016, 06:46:10 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

You continue to confuse the phrase "of the intellect and will" with being the same thing as an unconditional assent of faith. You just can't seem to get past that.

Ladislaus,

I think you reply without adequate reflection and consideration of the problem, and/or you have a particular bias, not a simple prejudicial bent, but a real bias, that makes examining a problem from different perspective impossible.

You have never in this thread understood the nature of the argument and you are unwilling or unable to correct anything you say.

For example, earlier post in this thread we had this exchange:

Quote from: drew

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: drew
Submission of the mind and will, that is, the soul to God on the authority of God is what divine faith is. It must necessarily be unqualified.

Simply not true, Drew.

“Simply not true”? What I said is a brief paraphrase but the statement is most certainly true.

Quote from: Vatican I, On Faith
“We are obliged to yield to God the revealer full submission of intellect and will by faith. This faith, which is the beginning of human salvation, the catholic church professes to be a supernatural virtue, by means of which, with the grace of God inspiring and assisting us, we believe to be true what He has revealed, not because we perceive its intrinsic truth by the natural light of reason, but because of the authority of God himself, who makes the revelation and can neither deceive nor be deceived.”

How is it possible that you could err on something this fundamental and then accuse me of not understanding the distinction between the submission of the intellect and will to divinely revealed propositions of faith, and the submission of the intellect and will to merely human declarations of churchmen? And not once but repeatedly.

You have made this objection before and I have replied to it before. It is the reply that you do not understand. I fully understand the distinction, unfortunately, I am unable to share that understanding with you. It is not me, but the Novus Ordo Church that is conflating the categories of truths of divine and Catholic faith, and the declarations of the ordinary authentic magisterium.

And as long as I have a specific case in which this conflation has formally taken place by the CDF that constitutes prima facie evidence, you do not have an argument and your theoretical speculations are a waste of breath.

Drew

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #76 on:** April 11, 2016, 05:32:49 AM »

It is time some SSPX members start asking +Fellay when did he signed the (1989) "Profession of Faith" and "Oath of Fidelity" (obviously long before Argentinian approval) because they are in deep trouble now. On his recent private meeting with Francis, +Fellay was "encouraged to establish a seminary in Italy".

Quote from: Rorate Caeli 4/11/16

Pope to extend validity of confessions of SSPX priests beyond Year of Mercy

Several thousand people were assembled in Puy-en-Velay (Haute-Loire) during the pilgrimage organized this weekend by the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X on the occasion of the jubilee year celebrated in this Mecca of Christendom. During the Mass celebrated Saturday in St. Paulien, Father Christian Bouchacourt, District Superior of France, said that this pilgrimage constituted a prayer for (France). He noted that many saints are linked to this holy place (Joan of Arc, Louis-Marie Grignon de Montfort, John Francis Regis, etc.) and urged the faithful to recite the Angelus every day for Muslims so they can know, love and serve Jesus Christ. [...]

Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior general of the SSPX, celebrated the Mass for Good Shepherd Sunday with his two Assistants General.

A few days earlier he had met with Pope Francis during a very positive meeting which strengthened ties between the Holy See and the Society founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. Despite the publication of the Post-Synodal Exhortation, which "makes us cry," he revealed some "happiness" from the interview

The Pope confirmed that the SSPX was Catholic in his eyes
He confirmed that he never would condemn it
He confided that he wishes to expand the faculties of the SSPX, starting with the authorization of its priests to validly hear confession.

Finally, during the talks in Rome, Bishop Fellay was encouraged to establish a seminary in Italy

Emphasis mine.

ultrarigorist · « **Reply #77 on:** April 11, 2016, 06:48:35 AM »

Quote from: Maria Auxiliadora

The Apostolic Exhortation “Amoris Laetitia” (4/9/16) is a "teachings which either the Roman Pontiff or the College of Bishops enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium" which "they do not intend to proclaim...by a definitive act"[/size] BUT the SSPX and all indult communities will be expected to "adhere with religious submission of will and intellect" in order to be considered "Catholics" by the New church. Hope this helps to see the picture.

What a perfect example of gαyspeak.
The Authentic Magisterium is only ever exercised by definitive Acts.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #78 on:** April 11, 2016, 07:56:03 AM »

It is you who err, drew. CF. Nishant's comments. He's exactly right.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #79 on:** April 11, 2016, 09:34:38 AM »

This is surely a tricky topic that I must investigate but I can say for sure that Nishant's quoting of Humani Generis is OUT OF CONTEXT, therefore he must have some agenda, considering he left out the most important part of the paragraph he quoted.

20. Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority, of which it is true to say: "He who hears you, hears me";and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine.

The phrase Nishant left out is extremly pertinent to the topic, because the pope is saying that, supposing the encyclical appertains (ie relates) to doctrine, then one must give consent. Certainly no one would disagree with this.

However, this changes the dynamic of the quote, since doctrine is of a higher infallibility level than the "Ordinary Authentic Magisterium of the Roman Pontiffs", with which Nishant was trying to connect to the quote. BIG DIFFERENCE! Everyone has to give assent to doctrinal matters; we only have to give consent to the ordinary magisterium insofar as it does not contradict previous doctrine and/or conciliar statements.

As an aside, V2 and most of the post V2 enclycicals do NOT deal with doctrine, therefore we do not have to give the same (or in certain cases, any) assent. This agreement is trying to require doctrinal-level assent on non-doctrinal matters.