Author Topic: SECRET SPECIAL CHAPTER OF NEO FSSPX (Read 63650 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #15 on:** August 14, 2015, 01:13:47 PM »

Quote from: John Steven

Quote from: ABL
To get rid of the error, they should have added, "...insofar as this Magisterium is in full conformity with Tradition."

Yes, indeed, ABL wasn't infallible. ABL is quite mistaken here. It is the MAGISTERIUM and the MAGISTERIUM ALONE that is the authentic interpreter of Tradition. As many priests have since pointed out, we cannot say that we oppose Tradition to the Magisterium without essentially becoming Protestants. Where we have issues is where MAGISTERIUM OPPOSES MAGISTERIUM. It is absolutely Catholic to give religious submission to the entire teaching of the Magisterium. Period. End of story. If anyone says otherwise, then either they do not understand the term "religious submission" or they're not Catholic.

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #16 on:** August 14, 2015, 01:33:07 PM »

Quote

Where we have issues is where MAGISTERIUM OPPOSES MAGISTERIUM

You repeat this often and I thank you for that. For me, a light bulb moment and launch pad for follow up.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #17 on:** August 14, 2015, 01:51:40 PM »

Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta

Quote
Where we have issues is where MAGISTERIUM OPPOSES MAGISTERIUM

You repeat this often and I thank you for that. For me, a light bulb moment and launch pad for follow up.

Once we agree that we can't set up an opposition between Tradition and Magisterium, then upon being confronted with apparent contradictions between pre-V2 Magisterium and post-V2 Magisterium, the issue then becomes whether we apply the hermeneutic of continuity or hermeneutic of rupture.

We have a strict obligation to TRY applying the hermeneutic of continuity as much as we possibly can. This hermeneutic of continuity must be the default for Catholics.

It's only as the LAST POSSIBLE RESORT when no such hermeneutic can conceivably be applied to discrepancies that we must say that there has been a rupture.

And what's funny is that I think the Vatican would perfectly agree with this line of thinking.

JPaul · « **Reply #18 on:** August 14, 2015, 04:00:37 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: PerEvangelicaDicta
Quote
Where we have issues is where MAGISTERIUM OPPOSES MAGISTERIUM

You repeat this often and I thank you for that. For me, a light bulb moment and launch pad for follow up.

Once we agree that we can't set up an opposition between Tradition and Magisterium, then upon being confronted with apparent contradictions between pre-V2 Magisterium and post-V2 Magisterium, the issue then becomes whether we apply the hermeneutic of continuity or hermeneutic of rupture.

We have a strict obligation to TRY applying the hermeneutic of continuity as much as we possibly can. This hermeneutic of continuity must be the default for Catholics.

It's only as the LAST POSSIBLE RESORT when no such hermeneutic can conceivably be applied to discrepancies that we must say that there has been a rupture.

And what's funny is that I think the Vatican would perfectly agree with this line of thinking.

The SSPX/resistance R&R position has created a third alternative for itself, a Magisterium which is continuous but has few tears in it here and there. Something akin to a Magisterium with a doctrinal hernia.

JPaul · « **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2015, 04:12:54 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: John Steven
Quote from: ABL
To get rid of the error, they should have added, "...insofar as this Magisterium is in full conformity with Tradition."

Yes, indeed, ABL wasn't infallible. ABL is quite mistaken here. It is the MAGISTERIUM and the MAGISTERIUM ALONE that is the authentic interpreter of Tradition. As many priests have since pointed out, we cannot say that we oppose Tradition to the Magisterium without essentially becoming Protestants. Where we have issues is where MAGISTERIUM OPPOSES MAGISTERIUM. It is absolutely Catholic to give religious submission to the entire teaching of the Magisterium. Period. End of story. If anyone says otherwise, then either they do not understand the term "religious submission" or they're not Catholic.

The True Magisterium and the authentic Tradition of the Church are never opposed to one another, in that they are one integral entity. Thus when there is a conflict, it is from a departure from either one that is the cause.

Only the Truth can claim Magisterial authority and there cannot be two Magisteriums. The one which introduces novelty is easily indentified as the false one which does not come from the Church.

The conciliar church is not the Catholic Church, and the conciliar "magisterium" is not the Catholic Church's Magisterium.