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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: parentsfortruth on March 31, 2014, 10:37:30 AM

Title: Secrecy
Post by: parentsfortruth on March 31, 2014, 10:37:30 AM
I can't for sure say that a deal was signed with Rome, but I can tell you that Saint Michael's has signed a deal with the SSPX. Chuckling board members would not say what the so-called "agreement" contained, which makes it even more disturbing.

"Oh but the property wasn't signed over." Well, that's nice, but the terms of the docuмent signed were not given, and the people at Saint Michael's deserve to KNOW WHAT IS IN THAT DOcuмENT.

But it's a secret. They won't tell us, and chuckle about it.

Fellay is getting the "feather in his cap."
Title: Secrecy
Post by: soulguard on March 31, 2014, 10:42:55 AM
Surely spreading rumours and revealing private information on a website is a sin.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: parentsfortruth on March 31, 2014, 10:45:19 AM
 :stare:

Soulgard, I can tell you right now, you're nuts.

We know that an agreement was signed. THEY ADMITTED THEY SIGNED SOMETHING WITH THEM. THAT IS NOT SPREADING RUMORS, AND IT IS NOT PRIVATE INFORMATION!

THEY WILL NOT TELL US WHAT THEY SIGNED. THEY WON'T TELL US THE TERMS OR ANYTHING!
Title: Secrecy
Post by: crossbro on March 31, 2014, 10:47:57 AM
Quote from: soulguard
Surely spreading rumours and revealing private information on a website is a sin.


Private information ?

Really ?

I can recommend the OP not sign the next check she places in the plate, and then demand to know what was agreed to by the board, continue to not sign your checks until they relent.

If others in the parish share your concerns tell them not to sign their checks either.

Know what you are paying for and vote with your money.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: parentsfortruth on March 31, 2014, 10:48:48 AM
Quote from: crossbro
Quote from: soulguard
Surely spreading rumours and revealing private information on a website is a sin.


Private information ?

Really ?

I can recommend the OP not sign the next check she places in the plate, and then demand to know what was agreed to by the board, continue to not sign your checks until they relent.


Don't worry. They haven't gotten a thin dime from us since the SSPX took over there.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: hollingsworth on March 31, 2014, 11:33:10 AM
Parentsfor, can you tell us where St. Michael's is located?  Can you go directly to the sspx priest who services St. M's and get the information you need about the secret signing?  Not sure I understand much of this.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Zeitun on March 31, 2014, 12:06:02 PM
Quote from: soulguard
Surely spreading rumours and revealing private information on a website is a sin.


Lying is a sin too.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Matthew on March 31, 2014, 12:25:45 PM
Quote from: parentsfortruth

We know that an agreement was signed. THEY ADMITTED THEY SIGNED SOMETHING WITH THEM. THAT IS NOT SPREADING RUMORS, AND IT IS NOT PRIVATE INFORMATION!

THEY WILL NOT TELL US WHAT THEY SIGNED. THEY WON'T TELL US THE TERMS OR ANYTHING!


Exactly.

You can't withhold information about something important, and then when the person goes to complain to a bunch of people publicly about it, you stand up and say, "That's awful vague, much like a rumor. Stop spreading rumors!"

What kind of crap is that!

It's not like she didn't try to get the details. They simply wouldn't give them. However, the chuckling, etc. is not a rumor -- it's a first-hand fact that she's reporting to us here.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: soulguard on March 31, 2014, 12:34:44 PM
This is nothing but gossip and rumor.

This forum is full of it.

I think you people are addicted to gossip, because this looks like BS to anyone who is not in the "Resistance".
Title: Secrecy
Post by: soulguard on March 31, 2014, 12:35:52 PM
Quote from: Zeitun
Quote from: soulguard
Surely spreading rumours and revealing private information on a website is a sin.


Lying is a sin too.


So what is it if it is not gossip and rumor? You are blind.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Mabel on March 31, 2014, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: soulguard
This is nothing but gossip and rumor.

This forum is full of it.

I think you people are addicted to gossip, because this looks like BS to anyone who is not in the "Resistance".


I'm not "in the Resistance" but I can tell you that when a priest dies, chapels go in to chaos. If there is a board of directors, this is exactly what happens.

In fact, many chapels with a board have a lot of problems even when the priest is alive.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: soulguard on March 31, 2014, 12:47:34 PM
You people complain about secrecy and yet at the same time one needs an invite to go to your resistance masses.

Hypocrites.

I started a thread about this.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: parentsfortruth on March 31, 2014, 01:05:25 PM
Saint Michael's is located in De Pere, WI. Father Bolduc was the pastor at Saint Michael's for more than 25 years. When he died, the SSPX moved in.

Some of us knew there were problems in the SSPX. Father Bolduc had invited several priests of the Resistance up here before he died (BEFORE IT WAS EVEN ESTABLISHED AS THE RESISTANCE, SOULGUARD.)

Anyway, we were told by the board initially that the SSPX was only to be at Saint Michael's TEMPORARILY. And later we were told that the search for an independent priest WAS NOT HAPPENING, so how does that make the SSPX stay here temporary if they're not even looking for an alternative?

The SSPX (I know this for a fact) has ASKED to have the church turned over to them and that didn't happen, so they're taking the gradual approach. Deal here, deal there. They're even wanting to build a school here. If Father Bolduc thought that it would have thrived here, he would have started one himself! HE WAS THE ONE WHO BOUGHT SAINT MARYS WITH MR. BEEMSTER'S MONEY! (the one who owned the land that Saint Michael's is on.) Father Bolduc was also the FIRST HEADMASTER at Saint Marys! When Father Bolduc was kicked out, Mr. Beemster sued the SSPX for his money back, and won.

We've been kept in the dark about so much here. This latest thing, and the chuckling board members that would not give the details of what was contained in the agreement speaks VOLUMES. Father thought he was picking the right people... people he could trust to do the right thing for the Church up here, but instead, all resistance initially, was squashed like a bug. The people that resisted were marginalized and maligned.

I still consider myself a parishioner of Saint Michael's even though it's been taken over.

This was the last straw.

It's SHOCKING how easily the SSPX totally took over there, with barely a whimper from the people.

Apparently, we deserve this. God is separating the wheat from the chaff.

DEAD FISH SWIM DOWNSTREAM!
Title: Secrecy
Post by: parentsfortruth on March 31, 2014, 01:08:38 PM
Quote from: soulguard
You people complain about secrecy and yet at the same time one needs an invite to go to your resistance masses.

Hypocrites.

I started a thread about this.


Yeah and it was disproved like the lunacy it is. You can go to the inthissign website and look at the freaking schedule like everyone else does.

It's not hard to find out when the masses are if you have a brain in your head.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: parentsfortruth on March 31, 2014, 01:16:14 PM
Here's a little background on the situation, while things were fresh in my mind when this whole thing started.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Chronicle-of-Change
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Maria Auxiliadora on March 31, 2014, 01:32:34 PM
Quote from: parentsfortruth
I can't for sure say that a deal was signed with Rome, but I can tell you that Saint Michael's has signed a deal with the SSPX. Chuckling board members would not say what the so-called "agreement" contained, which makes it even more disturbing.

"Oh but the property wasn't signed over." Well, that's nice, but the terms of the docuмent signed were not given, and the people at Saint Michael's deserve to KNOW WHAT IS IN THAT DOcuмENT.

But it's a secret. They won't tell us, and chuckle about it.

Fellay is getting the "feather in his cap."



I have one guess. The “Doctrinal Preamble”, the three docuмents related to the new formula of the (1989) “Profession of Faith”.  The three parts are:

1- The text of the "Profession of Faith and the Oath of Fidelity"

2- The text of the Apostolic Letter "Ad tuendam fidem" of JPII.

3- The text of the “Doctrinal Commentary on the Concluding Formula of the    Professio fidei” to explain the meaning and doctrinal weight of the three concluding paragraphs of the “Profession of Faith” that refer to the theological classification of doctrines and the nature of assent required of the faithful.

I have seen this “docuмent”. It was sent to a priest I know and have a copy of it.

Secrecy
is a devil’s tool +Fellay has made excellent use of.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Maria Auxiliadora on March 31, 2014, 03:16:29 PM
Quote from: hollingsworth
Parentsfor, can you tell us where St. Michael's is located?  Can you go directly to the sspx priest who services St. M's and get the information you need about the secret signing?  Not sure I understand much of this.


If the board members cannot share it with the parishioners, what makes you think the priest will?

I would suggest that parentsfortruth ask the board members IF they signed the 1989 "Profession of Faith", they read this letter written recently by a PA (USA) priest to A. Augustine Di Noia regarding this "Profession of Faith". The letter was written2/24/14 (link below) It is not too late to retract it and save the chapel. There should be plenty of priests available to provide the sacraments once +Fellay goes to Rome.

http://www.saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/OPEN%20LETTERS/WATERS_SULLIVAN_CHAPUT_EXCHANGE/13_Waters_CDF_DiNoia_2-24-14.pdf


Title: Secrecy
Post by: hollingsworth on March 31, 2014, 03:28:52 PM
Parentsfor:
Quote
It's SHOCKING how easily the SSPX totally took over there, with barely a whimper from the people.

Apparently, we deserve this. God is separating the wheat from the chaff.

DEAD FISH SWIM DOWNSTREAM!


Thanks for expaining about St. Michael's.  Yes, it is shocking.  It is rather incredible.  We thought in 2002, when we started going to SSPX Masses in Los Gatos, that the SSPX faithful were a warrior class.  Wrong! They are, for the most part, a pack of "dead fish" swimming downstream.  No wonder Fellay & Co. get away with what they do.  Why, they're just a buch of soulguards! :furtive:
Title: Secrecy
Post by: TKGS on March 31, 2014, 03:58:41 PM
Saint Joseph's Chapel in Greenwood, Indiana appears to have been in a similar situation.  

The chapel was established by a group of Catholics who simply would not accept "The Changes" in the early 1970s.  The first priest to serve them was Father Wathen, the author of The Great Sacriledge.  The chapel has been served by other independent priests over the years.  A couple of years ago, the aging pastor made an announcement that he simply could no longer continue the roll of pastor for the chapel and asked the chapel to begin searching for a replacement.  The chapel board didn't search very long--they immediately asked the SSPX to come to the chapel.

The conditions were that the SSPX would serve Saint Joseph's for a year so that the parishioners could see what it is like to be a Society chapel.  After a year, the chapel board was to either accept or reject the SSPX.  If they accepted the SSPX, title of the property was to be signed over to the SSPX along with everything contained therein.  If they rejected the SSPX, the chapel and the Society would part company.

After a year, the chapel board decided that "there was no other choice" and accepted the SSPX.  The board dragged its feet for another year (mostly because the Bishop Fellay agreement with Rome fiasco had become big news) before the SSPX ultimately gave them a deadline to either sign the chapel over to them or go another route.  The chapel board, by one vote, decided the stick with the SSPX and signed title of the property and all the contents therein to the SSPX.

Within a month (though I think it was within days) the locks on the chapel were changed.  I would presume that the agreement St. Michael's chapel has with the SSPX might be similar.

The board of the chapel was mostly composed of children of original founders of the chapel.  I have recordings of many of the sermons Father Wathen gave through the years at Saint Joseph's.  When I listen to the recordings in which Father Wathen talks about the reason Saint Joseph's exists and, when one considers what is public knowledge about the SSPX-Rome negotiations, it seems clear to me that the current board members who went to the chapel as children never listened to a word Father Wathen was saying.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Tiffany on March 31, 2014, 05:55:22 PM
Quote from: soulguard
Surely spreading rumours and revealing private information on a website is a sin.


SG this is the chapel that PFT has close ties to, she isn't rumormongering. I'm sure this is heavy on her heart.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Zeitun on March 31, 2014, 06:31:01 PM
Quote from: soulguard
Quote from: Zeitun
Quote from: soulguard
Surely spreading rumours and revealing private information on a website is a sin.


Lying is a sin too.


So what is it if it is not gossip and rumor? You are blind.


You are in no position to be schooling anyone on what Truth is.

So let me be the first say "Goodbye".
Title: Secrecy
Post by: parentsfortruth on March 31, 2014, 06:42:06 PM
Quote from: TKGS
Saint Joseph's Chapel in Greenwood, Indiana appears to have been in a similar situation.  

The chapel was established by a group of Catholics who simply would not accept "The Changes" in the early 1970s.  The first priest to serve them was Father Wathen, the author of The Great Sacriledge.  The chapel has been served by other independent priests over the years.  A couple of years ago, the aging pastor made an announcement that he simply could no longer continue the roll of pastor for the chapel and asked the chapel to begin searching for a replacement.  The chapel board didn't search very long--they immediately asked the SSPX to come to the chapel.

The conditions were that the SSPX would serve Saint Joseph's for a year so that the parishioners could see what it is like to be a Society chapel.  After a year, the chapel board was to either accept or reject the SSPX.  If they accepted the SSPX, title of the property was to be signed over to the SSPX along with everything contained therein.  If they rejected the SSPX, the chapel and the Society would part company.

After a year, the chapel board decided that "there was no other choice" and accepted the SSPX.  The board dragged its feet for another year (mostly because the Bishop Fellay agreement with Rome fiasco had become big news) before the SSPX ultimately gave them a deadline to either sign the chapel over to them or go another route.  The chapel board, by one vote, decided the stick with the SSPX and signed title of the property and all the contents therein to the SSPX.

Within a month (though I think it was within days) the locks on the chapel were changed.  I would presume that the agreement St. Michael's chapel has with the SSPX might be similar.

The board of the chapel was mostly composed of children of original founders of the chapel.  I have recordings of many of the sermons Father Wathen gave through the years at Saint Joseph's.  When I listen to the recordings in which Father Wathen talks about the reason Saint Joseph's exists and, when one considers what is public knowledge about the SSPX-Rome negotiations, it seems clear to me that the current board members who went to the chapel as children never listened to a word Father Wathen was saying.


My grandmother in law was the one of the ones who started that church! She had the Mass out of her own house at first!!!!


 :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Marlelar on March 31, 2014, 06:49:56 PM
Quote from: soulguard
This is nothing but gossip and rumor.

This forum is full of it.

I think you people are addicted to gossip, because this looks like BS to anyone who is not in the "Resistance".


I am curious as to why you are still here.  Why read what is written by individuals you believe are gossips, liars, full if "it"?  Why waste your time attacking said liars and gossips?  Surely you must have some more wholesome pursuits to engage your time and intellect?

Marsha
Title: Secrecy
Post by: parentsfortruth on March 31, 2014, 07:09:30 PM
I saw one of the board members the other day, and he was talking about how he valued honesty, and he could tell by looking at someone if they were being genuine and all this stuff.

Then he won't even say what's in the agreement. HEY, IF IT'S SO GOOD, THEN WHY NOT SHARE WITH EVERYONE THE GOODNESS OF SUCH AN AGREEMENT!? WHY NOT BE PROUD OF WHAT YOU SIGNED IF IT'S SO HONORABLE? WHY DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE IT FROM THE ENTIRE CONGREGATION!?
Title: Secrecy
Post by: crossbro on March 31, 2014, 10:01:08 PM
 This is sad over the property.

SSPX in a land grab- just getting the property from trusting sheep, at the end of the day they will hand in over to Libby NOMer bishop who will sell the property to pay for child molestation lawsuits.

Mark my words, that is the future.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Marlelar on March 31, 2014, 11:29:12 PM
Quote from: parentsfortruth
I saw one of the board members the other day, and he was talking about how he valued honesty, and he could tell by looking at someone if they were being genuine and all this stuff.

Then he won't even say what's in the agreement. HEY, IF IT'S SO GOOD, THEN WHY NOT SHARE WITH EVERYONE THE GOODNESS OF SUCH AN AGREEMENT!? WHY NOT BE PROUD OF WHAT YOU SIGNED IF IT'S SO HONORABLE? WHY DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE IT FROM THE ENTIRE CONGREGATION!?


I suspect you have hit the nail on the head and the news will not be good.

Marsha
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Wessex on April 01, 2014, 04:24:03 AM
Having dealings with the SSPX is like the kiss of death. The UK too was growing an independent apostolate before ABL muddied the water. I think we were too eager to surrender all our localised opposition to the reforms to some remote corporation high up in the Alps and fashion our response on the personal love/hate relationship ABL had with Rome. We don't like what is happening in far off Rome so why should far off Menzingen be any better? At least we had got used to the former being so corrupt!

I naively thought that all priests wanted were three meals a day and a warm bed. Why do they need to build an empire overnight? This urgency to institutionalise a movement and tie it down with copious amounts of bureaucracy and secrecy turns relgious motives into material ones. My JW friends tell me they do not need fancy trappings and bloated bishops to relay the gospel. Perhaps the Resistance ahould take a leaf out of their book.

We cannot buy our way into heaven although the Society would pretend that we could. Generous gifts are often regretted and folk should look at things long-term and speculate what may happen beyond the life of an independent priest. I would sooner burn a chapel down than see it handed over to Menzigen. It gets worse in the UK; Fr. Morgan sells his chapels to the Muslims!  
Title: Secrecy
Post by: stgobnait on April 01, 2014, 09:30:45 AM
i can recall the days when sspx priests were happy with very little materially,the people took good care of them, and now most benefactors, have gone to thier reward, so who owns the churche's, we'l know when the locks go on the gates. :thinking:
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Francisco on April 01, 2014, 10:17:30 AM
Quote from: Wessex
Having dealings with the SSPX is like the kiss of death. The UK too was growing an independent apostolate before ABL muddied the water......  


A Major Leonard Hurst briefly mentions this in an issue of The Catholic Cross which is reproduced by Hutton Gibson in his book The Enemy Is Here which is available as a free download on www.huttongibson.com
Title: Secrecy
Post by: holysoulsacademy on April 02, 2014, 03:45:40 AM
parentsfortruth - you can easily find out about your chapel, all the business records should be public records, if they are a non-profit, which I would assume they are.  you could do a search for it online.  from the tax records, you should be able to find the articles of incorporation along with who are the board members.  that would be a start.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: TKGS on April 02, 2014, 06:22:22 AM
Quote from: holysoulsacademy
parentsfortruth - you can easily find out about your chapel, all the business records should be public records, if they are a non-profit, which I would assume they are.  you could do a search for it online.  from the tax records, you should be able to find the articles of incorporation along with who are the board members.  that would be a start.


Unfortunately, it can take two to three years before those records are generally "available" from open sources.  By then, it will be too late.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: Olive on April 02, 2014, 03:35:18 PM
PFT - who is the priest at the York (PA) chapel which you've linked to?  I don't recognize him.  Former SSPX?  Just curious about his lineage.  Thanks.
Title: Secrecy
Post by: parentsfortruth on April 02, 2014, 08:48:57 PM
From my research, he served 18 years as a parish priest in the archdiocese of Philadelphia. He was also in the military and was quite decorated. He was with the SSPX for 3 years before leaving. He's been at the SS. Peter and Paul Mission since 2010. The SSPX wouldn't have kept him there if he weren't legit, and my suspicion is that he was conditionally reordained. Marie Auxilliadora would know more, I'm sure.

I also wanted to mention that I found out what they signed with the SSPX. They agreed to give the SSPX 5% of the donations from the collection plate.