Author Topic: Secrecy (Read 9882 times)

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #15 on:** March 31, 2014, 01:32:34 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

I can't for sure say that a deal was signed with Rome, but I can tell you that Saint Michael's has signed a deal with the SSPX. Chuckling board members would not say what the so-called "agreement" contained, which makes it even more disturbing.

"Oh but the property wasn't signed over." Well, that's nice, but the terms of the docuмent signed were not given, and the people at Saint Michael's deserve to KNOW WHAT IS IN THAT DOcuмENT.

But it's a secret. They won't tell us, and chuckle about it.

Fellay is getting the "feather in his cap."

I have one guess. The “Doctrinal Preamble”, the three docuмents related to the new formula of the (1989) “Profession of Faith”. The three parts are:

1- The text of the "Profession of Faith and the Oath of Fidelity"

2- The text of the Apostolic Letter "Ad tuendam fidem" of JPII.

3- The text of the “Doctrinal Commentary on the Concluding Formula of the Professio fidei” to explain the meaning and doctrinal weight of the three concluding paragraphs of the “Profession of Faith” that refer to the theological classification of doctrines and the nature of assent required of the faithful.

I have seen this “docuмent”. It was sent to a priest I know and have a copy of it.

Secrecy is a devil’s tool +Fellay has made excellent use of.

Maria Auxiliadora · « **Reply #16 on:** March 31, 2014, 03:16:29 PM »

Quote from: hollingsworth

Parentsfor, can you tell us where St. Michael's is located? Can you go directly to the sspx priest who services St. M's and get the information you need about the secret signing? Not sure I understand much of this.

If the board members cannot share it with the parishioners, what makes you think the priest will?

I would suggest that parentsfortruth ask the board members IF they signed the 1989 "Profession of Faith", they read this letter written recently by a PA (USA) priest to A. Augustine Di Noia regarding this "Profession of Faith". The letter was written2/24/14 (link below) It is not too late to retract it and save the chapel. There should be plenty of priests available to provide the sacraments once +Fellay goes to Rome.

http://www.saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/OPEN%20LETTERS/WATERS_SULLIVAN_CHAPUT_EXCHANGE/13_Waters_CDF_DiNoia_2-24-14.pdf

hollingsworth · « **Reply #17 on:** March 31, 2014, 03:28:52 PM »

Parentsfor:

Quote

It's SHOCKING how easily the SSPX totally took over there, with barely a whimper from the people.

Apparently, we deserve this. God is separating the wheat from the chaff.

DEAD FISH SWIM DOWNSTREAM!

Thanks for expaining about St. Michael's. Yes, it is shocking. It is rather incredible. We thought in 2002, when we started going to SSPX Masses in Los Gatos, that the SSPX faithful were a warrior class. Wrong! They are, for the most part, a pack of "dead fish" swimming downstream. No wonder Fellay & Co. get away with what they do. Why, they're just a buch of soulguards! :furtive:

TKGS · « **Reply #18 on:** March 31, 2014, 03:58:41 PM »

Saint Joseph's Chapel in Greenwood, Indiana appears to have been in a similar situation.

The chapel was established by a group of Catholics who simply would not accept "The Changes" in the early 1970s. The first priest to serve them was Father Wathen, the author of The Great Sacriledge. The chapel has been served by other independent priests over the years. A couple of years ago, the aging pastor made an announcement that he simply could no longer continue the roll of pastor for the chapel and asked the chapel to begin searching for a replacement. The chapel board didn't search very long--they immediately asked the SSPX to come to the chapel.

The conditions were that the SSPX would serve Saint Joseph's for a year so that the parishioners could see what it is like to be a Society chapel. After a year, the chapel board was to either accept or reject the SSPX. If they accepted the SSPX, title of the property was to be signed over to the SSPX along with everything contained therein. If they rejected the SSPX, the chapel and the Society would part company.

After a year, the chapel board decided that "there was no other choice" and accepted the SSPX. The board dragged its feet for another year (mostly because the Bishop Fellay agreement with Rome fiasco had become big news) before the SSPX ultimately gave them a deadline to either sign the chapel over to them or go another route. The chapel board, by one vote, decided the stick with the SSPX and signed title of the property and all the contents therein to the SSPX.

Within a month (though I think it was within days) the locks on the chapel were changed. I would presume that the agreement St. Michael's chapel has with the SSPX might be similar.

The board of the chapel was mostly composed of children of original founders of the chapel. I have recordings of many of the sermons Father Wathen gave through the years at Saint Joseph's. When I listen to the recordings in which Father Wathen talks about the reason Saint Joseph's exists and, when one considers what is public knowledge about the SSPX-Rome negotiations, it seems clear to me that the current board members who went to the chapel as children never listened to a word Father Wathen was saying.

Tiffany · « **Reply #19 on:** March 31, 2014, 05:55:22 PM »

Quote from: soulguard

Surely spreading rumours and revealing private information on a website is a sin.

SG this is the chapel that PFT has close ties to, she isn't rumormongering. I'm sure this is heavy on her heart.

Zeitun · « **Reply #20 on:** March 31, 2014, 06:31:01 PM »

Quote from: soulguard

Quote from: Zeitun
Quote from: soulguard
Surely spreading rumours and revealing private information on a website is a sin.

Lying is a sin too.

So what is it if it is not gossip and rumor? You are blind.

You are in no position to be schooling anyone on what Truth is.

So let me be the first say "Goodbye".

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #21 on:** March 31, 2014, 06:42:06 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Saint Joseph's Chapel in Greenwood, Indiana appears to have been in a similar situation.

The chapel was established by a group of Catholics who simply would not accept "The Changes" in the early 1970s. The first priest to serve them was Father Wathen, the author of The Great Sacriledge. The chapel has been served by other independent priests over the years. A couple of years ago, the aging pastor made an announcement that he simply could no longer continue the roll of pastor for the chapel and asked the chapel to begin searching for a replacement. The chapel board didn't search very long--they immediately asked the SSPX to come to the chapel.

The conditions were that the SSPX would serve Saint Joseph's for a year so that the parishioners could see what it is like to be a Society chapel. After a year, the chapel board was to either accept or reject the SSPX. If they accepted the SSPX, title of the property was to be signed over to the SSPX along with everything contained therein. If they rejected the SSPX, the chapel and the Society would part company.

After a year, the chapel board decided that "there was no other choice" and accepted the SSPX. The board dragged its feet for another year (mostly because the Bishop Fellay agreement with Rome fiasco had become big news) before the SSPX ultimately gave them a deadline to either sign the chapel over to them or go another route. The chapel board, by one vote, decided the stick with the SSPX and signed title of the property and all the contents therein to the SSPX.

Within a month (though I think it was within days) the locks on the chapel were changed. I would presume that the agreement St. Michael's chapel has with the SSPX might be similar.

The board of the chapel was mostly composed of children of original founders of the chapel. I have recordings of many of the sermons Father Wathen gave through the years at Saint Joseph's. When I listen to the recordings in which Father Wathen talks about the reason Saint Joseph's exists and, when one considers what is public knowledge about the SSPX-Rome negotiations, it seems clear to me that the current board members who went to the chapel as children never listened to a word Father Wathen was saying.

My grandmother in law was the one of the ones who started that church! She had the Mass out of her own house at first!!!!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Marlelar · « **Reply #22 on:** March 31, 2014, 06:49:56 PM »

Quote from: soulguard

This is nothing but gossip and rumor.

This forum is full of it.

I think you people are addicted to gossip, because this looks like BS to anyone who is not in the "Resistance".

I am curious as to why you are still here. Why read what is written by individuals you believe are gossips, liars, full if "it"? Why waste your time attacking said liars and gossips? Surely you must have some more wholesome pursuits to engage your time and intellect?

Marsha

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #23 on:** March 31, 2014, 07:09:30 PM »

I saw one of the board members the other day, and he was talking about how he valued honesty, and he could tell by looking at someone if they were being genuine and all this stuff.

Then he won't even say what's in the agreement. HEY, IF IT'S SO GOOD, THEN WHY NOT SHARE WITH EVERYONE THE GOODNESS OF SUCH AN AGREEMENT!? WHY NOT BE PROUD OF WHAT YOU SIGNED IF IT'S SO HONORABLE? WHY DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE IT FROM THE ENTIRE CONGREGATION!?

crossbro · « **Reply #24 on:** March 31, 2014, 10:01:08 PM »

This is sad over the property.

SSPX in a land grab- just getting the property from trusting sheep, at the end of the day they will hand in over to Libby NOMer bishop who will sell the property to pay for child molestation lawsuits.

Mark my words, that is the future.

Marlelar · « **Reply #25 on:** March 31, 2014, 11:29:12 PM »

Quote from: parentsfortruth

I saw one of the board members the other day, and he was talking about how he valued honesty, and he could tell by looking at someone if they were being genuine and all this stuff.

Then he won't even say what's in the agreement. HEY, IF IT'S SO GOOD, THEN WHY NOT SHARE WITH EVERYONE THE GOODNESS OF SUCH AN AGREEMENT!? WHY NOT BE PROUD OF WHAT YOU SIGNED IF IT'S SO HONORABLE? WHY DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE IT FROM THE ENTIRE CONGREGATION!?

I suspect you have hit the nail on the head and the news will not be good.

Marsha

Wessex · « **Reply #26 on:** April 01, 2014, 04:24:03 AM »

Having dealings with the SSPX is like the kiss of death. The UK too was growing an independent apostolate before ABL muddied the water. I think we were too eager to surrender all our localised opposition to the reforms to some remote corporation high up in the Alps and fashion our response on the personal love/hate relationship ABL had with Rome. We don't like what is happening in far off Rome so why should far off Menzingen be any better? At least we had got used to the former being so corrupt!

I naively thought that all priests wanted were three meals a day and a warm bed. Why do they need to build an empire overnight? This urgency to institutionalise a movement and tie it down with copious amounts of bureaucracy and secrecy turns relgious motives into material ones. My JW friends tell me they do not need fancy trappings and bloated bishops to relay the gospel. Perhaps the Resistance ahould take a leaf out of their book.

We cannot buy our way into heaven although the Society would pretend that we could. Generous gifts are often regretted and folk should look at things long-term and speculate what may happen beyond the life of an independent priest. I would sooner burn a chapel down than see it handed over to Menzigen. It gets worse in the UK; Fr. Morgan sells his chapels to the Muslims!

stgobnait · « **Reply #27 on:** April 01, 2014, 09:30:45 AM »

i can recall the days when sspx priests were happy with very little materially,the people took good care of them, and now most benefactors, have gone to thier reward, so who owns the churche's, we'l know when the locks go on the gates. :thinking:

Francisco · « **Reply #28 on:** April 01, 2014, 10:17:30 AM »

Quote from: Wessex

Having dealings with the SSPX is like the kiss of death. The UK too was growing an independent apostolate before ABL muddied the water......

A Major Leonard Hurst briefly mentions this in an issue of The Catholic Cross which is reproduced by Hutton Gibson in his book The Enemy Is Here which is available as a free download on www.huttongibson.com

holysoulsacademy · « **Reply #29 on:** April 02, 2014, 03:45:40 AM »

parentsfortruth - you can easily find out about your chapel, all the business records should be public records, if they are a non-profit, which I would assume they are. you could do a search for it online. from the tax records, you should be able to find the articles of incorporation along with who are the board members. that would be a start.