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Author Topic: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano  (Read 6939 times)

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Online Persto

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Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
« Reply #45 on: November 15, 2023, 03:02:58 PM »
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  • I believe that both +Huonder and +Schneider are agents of Jorge Bergoglio with distinct but related missions.
    I agree & would add Vigano, Strickland, Burke, the Dubia Cds, and any other Novus Ordo Bps that seem to be opposition to Bar Gog-lio.
    Persevere...
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #46 on: November 15, 2023, 03:04:37 PM »
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  • I agree & would add Vigano, Strickland, Burke, the Dubia Cds, and any other Novus Ordo Bps that seem to be opposition to Bar Gog-lio.

    Can you explain to me how a sedevacantist can be considered "controlled" opposition?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Online Persto

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #47 on: November 15, 2023, 03:18:09 PM »
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  • He seems to change his position like a chameleon
    Persevere...
    Fear not, nor be any way discouraged- Duet.1:21

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #48 on: November 15, 2023, 03:24:44 PM »
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  • He seems to change his position like a chameleon

    Can you list a few positions he's changed (and please make sure the nature of the change leads one toward conciliarism -as a control agent would- and not away from it)?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #49 on: November 15, 2023, 03:33:22 PM »
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  • Can you list a few positions he's changed (and please make sure the nature of the change leads one toward conciliarism -as a control agent would- and not away from it)?

    That's just more nonsense from someone who doesn't follow his writing and is ignorant.  +Vigano has been very consistent since he first announced his rejection of Vatican II and the New Mass on June 9, 2020, so over 3 years ago now.  He's gradually moved toward holding Bergoglio to be a non-pope, but there were hints that he was going in that direction early on, and the hints became stronger and stronger until now.  So there was a bit of a progression there, but not something that would be called a "change".


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #50 on: November 15, 2023, 03:41:07 PM »
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  • I agree & would add Vigano, Strickland, Burke, the Dubia Cds, and any other Novus Ordo Bps that seem to be opposition to Bar Gog-lio.

    +Strickland, +Burke, and the dubia Cardinals are most likely just sincere conservative Novus Ordites, not controlled opposition or gate-keepers.  What "gate" are they keeping and what "opposition" are they controlling?

    Also not sure what gate +Vigano is keeping, since he's more Trad than SSPX and has recently come out with holding Bergoglio to be a non-pope.  One might argue that he's running cover for the pre-Bergoglian V2 papal claimants, except that he's emphatically stated that Bergoglio is just the inevitable result of Vatican II, and he's been denouncing V2 and the NOM for over 3 years now.  He's probably moving in his mind toward questioning the legitimacy of all the V2 papal claimants, but probably doesn't think it's relevant or particularly urgent, since the other ones are dead.

    +Schneider is playing the role of a textbook gatekeeper and controlled opposition.  He pays a lot of lip service to Traditional Catholicism and presents himself as very sympathetic to Trads ... if not a Trad himself ... but then he defends V2, the NOM, and now Bergoglio.  His role as such would be clear, to keep Trad, Inc. from moving toward Traditional Catholicism and to keep them corralled in the Conciliar Church.  +Huonder's role is clear also, to gradually bring the SSPX fully into the Conciliar Church.  Could +Schneider just be sincere?  Possibly.  But every time that +Vigano makes some statement, they roll out +Schneider to oppose him and to offset the "damage" +Vigano might be doing.

    What exactly is +Vigano doing other than tugging on Trad, Inc. to become MORE Traditional ... and even sedevacantist?  What's the end game there?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #51 on: November 15, 2023, 03:52:10 PM »
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  • So, the biggest red light about +Schneider's latest criticism of +Vigano is his falsely having presented the "Opinion 3" as the teaching of the Church.  He's claiming that the Church teaches Opinion 3.  He HAS to know this is false.  It's one thing to hold the opinion yourself ... which he's entitled to do, since the Church has not condemned it ... and quite another to claim that it's the Church's teaching.

    Second red light about +Schneider is that every time +Vigano says something that might cause fence-sitting Trad, Inc. type Catholics to consider moving to Tradition, they roll out +Schneider to do damage control.

    Between these two factors, I'm all but convinced that +Schneider is working for Jorge.

    I'm also perplexed by the fact that Jorge hasn't disciplined +Schneider or silenced him, when he's said far worse about Jorge than +Strickland ever did.  +Huonder has also said negative things about Jorge, but not only has he not been silenced, but he's evidently there at SSPX with Jorge's blessing and approval.  One could say the same thing about +Vigano, except I think that the problem there is that if Jorge clamped down on him, the media would recall +Vigano's history with Jorge, which started with his exposing Jorge's protection of the sodomite rapist McCarrick, and people could easily infer that this is Jorge's way of retaliating for that and implying that he's continuing to do damage control for rapists, and Jorge would just generally like to keep the McCarrick situation out of the papers and not have everyone reminded of it.

    Online Persto

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #52 on: November 15, 2023, 04:03:49 PM »
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  • Well I don't have all the answers- I haven't got it all figured out,
    but when you control the opposition it seems to me you would want to control the whole spectrum of positions. I think that Vigano's role may be to corral the Sedes with false leadership because that faction is not controlled by Francis.  They all seem to take turns in the spot light to control any true Catholic resistance and derail it.
    Persevere...
    Fear not, nor be any way discouraged- Duet.1:21


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #53 on: November 15, 2023, 04:24:31 PM »
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  • I think that Vigano's role may be to corral the Sedes with false leadership because that faction is not controlled by Francis.  They all seem to take turns in the spot light to control any true Catholic resistance and derail it.

    I don't think that +Vigano is corralling any sedes.  Sedes have their own leadership, albeit informal, various +Thuc Bishops, etc.  If +Vigano tries to move toward the Conciliar Church, he'd simply leave the sedes behind.  Sedes are known to be pretty hard-headed.  I'm just not seeing it.  Nor have I seen anything that he's done practically to corral anyone ... he hasn't formed any kind of Society, nor a seminary, etc.  He's put out various letters that have denounced V2, the NOM, called the Conciliar Church a Masonic Anti-Church, and now holds that Bergoglio is not the pope using similar reasoning to that of Bishop Sanborn.  If anything he's moving toward the SVs, and not drawing SVs in the opposite direction.

    I could see it perhaps if he were straight Bennyvacantist, where Jorge bad, Benny good or Wojtyla good, Montini good, Roncalli good.  But he's criticized all the V2 papal claimants in pretty strong terms and has said that Jorge is just a symptom of the V2 problem.  So I'm not seeing that.  In fact, I could see him eventually hold all of them to be non-popes ... as he's only 1 or 2 logical steps away now.  So, for instance, a Roncalli could be accused of the same vitium consensus that Bergoglio had because he too spoke constantly about transforming the Church.

    Online Persto

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #54 on: November 15, 2023, 05:11:04 PM »
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  • Vigano knows the key to influencing the Sedes (and all the Trads heading that way) is telling them what they want to hear: criticizing V2 & saying Bergoglio is not the pope.
    By winning the support & allegiance of Sedes his goal would not be
    to lead them back to the Novus Ordo, but divide our side (which he
    seems to be doing on Cathinfo) and misdirect, or ? not sure what.
    In 3 short yrs. he has been promoted by the Opus Dei media, so he is
    part of their plan whatever that is.
    Persevere...
    Fear not, nor be any way discouraged- Duet.1:21

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #55 on: November 15, 2023, 06:01:46 PM »
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  • Quote
    Nor have I seen anything that he's done practically to corral anyone
    The only people he's trying to persuade to change are indulters and novus ordoites - and he's trying to push them away from new-rome back towards Tradition.  This is a good thing.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #56 on: November 15, 2023, 06:09:39 PM »
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  • Vigano knows the key to influencing the Sedes (and all the Trads heading that way) is telling them what they want to hear: criticizing V2 & saying Bergoglio is not the pope.

    According to this reasoning, anyone of orthodox faith would be suspect.  That's a vicious circle.


    By winning the support & allegiance of Sedes his goal would not be to lead them back to the Novus Ordo, but divide our side (which he seems to be doing on Cathinfo) and misdirect, or ? not sure what.

    The sede landscape was already divided on a number if issues, as was Cathinfo.  Its a symptom and consequence of the crisis in the Church (i.e., since the shephard has been struck, the sheep are scattered), which long predates the advent of +Vigano.


    In 3 short yrs. he has been promoted by the Opus Dei media, so he is part of their plan whatever that is.

    Ain't seen anything supporting him from the Opus Dei media since he got cancelled by the Catholic Identity Conference.

    Responses in red font, above ^^^
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #57 on: November 15, 2023, 07:07:54 PM »
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  • Vigano knows the key to influencing the Sedes (and all the Trads heading that way) is telling them what they want to hear: criticizing V2 & saying Bergoglio is not the pope.
    By winning the support & allegiance of Sedes his goal would not be
    to lead them back to the Novus Ordo, but divide our side (which he
    seems to be doing on Cathinfo) and misdirect, or ? not sure what.
    In 3 short yrs. he has been promoted by the Opus Dei media, so he is
    part of their plan whatever that is.

    Sorry, but this is weak and pathetic.  Sedes are already divided (see Father Chazal's famous chart).  How exactly is he going to further divide sedevacantists?  As I said, sedes are not easily influenced.  None of them is going to be persuaded of something they don't already hold by +Vigano.

    Online Persto

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    Re: Schneider sent in for damage control contra Vigano
    « Reply #58 on: November 15, 2023, 07:24:23 PM »
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  • Ladislaus, Sean, & Pax Vobis
    I respect your positions & comments.
    I don't know how all this will play out in  the future.
    Time will  tell. Let's watch & pray.
    Persevere...
    Fear not, nor be any way discouraged- Duet.1:21