Author Topic: Scandalous Fr. Pfluger Conferences: (Read 8921 times)

SeanJohnson · « **on:** January 25, 2014, 04:39:29 AM »

From the Nonpossumus Blog:
Scandalous Seminary Conferences of Fr. Pfluger to Seminarians in Flavigny
December

(Note: Ancien Regime and TheRecusant are currently translating all the scandalous conferences evincing the corrupted and branded priestly formation the seminarians are now getting, but meanwhile, you can get a Google translation from that blog. Here is a sample of what Nonpossumus is posting on 1-24):

Fr. Pfluger says:

"Traditionalists are locked in ourselves, rigid, self-sufficient and full of unfounded fears, always condemning, concerned over the truth of charity.

But the reform of the Church is broader than a return to the truth, is a reform of all life, and that we have not noticed. The point is not the truth or doctrine but charity and life in its entirety.

We were not realistic, but we've idealized things. What seems drastic in us (as some attitudes of Archbishop Lefebvre and the decision Frame 2006 from Roma) is actually circuмstantial, ie, on the conditions of the moment. We must let our bitterness and find the joy that is in sentire cuм Ecclesia and avoid criticism of the Vatican II.

The first is love, not truth. So we must not be rigid idealists, but we must be realistic and be charitable. Do not try to convert the Pope and the council: it is useless because they do not understand our language and are worried about what pastoral, not doctrinal.

In short: what you need to do is leave our auto closure, deposing our sorrows, our fears about wolves intended, and leaving sedevacantism that falls to reject Vatican II. We must trust in Rome, which has shown good will, and intensify relations with the council. We should not expect any sudden turn in the crisis of the Church. The reform of the Church will occur, but gradually, and we must cooperate from within, but still protected. We must purify the SSPX elements opposed to this, as to be heard must be provided and be obedient to the Pope. Our return to the fold change initiatives that generate gradually come to the Pope, and then the expected reform of the Church will [happen]."

Comment:

Unless this post is a flat out fraud, it is incredible to me that a single priest stays in the SSPX, and that the Menzingen denizens have the effrontery to pretend they have not been consciously liberalizing the once-traditional Society.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2014, 04:45:44 AM »

And take note:Fr. Pfluger announces his intention to "purify" the SSPX of those "elements" who still oppose a merely practical accord and Vatican II.

Jaw dropping stuff.

Wessex · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2014, 06:35:33 AM »

He articulates the new direction which is a few years ahead of that still lingering in remote outposts of the Society. And he confirms that it is passing through a transitional stage away from battles lost to a more sympathetic understanding of reality and how best to participate in that reality. In terms of the hardest of ABL's stances, Fr. P's mission is abject surrender but he will doubtless say that the founder always left the door open for reality to dawn on his intransigent followers one day. Whether this is true or not, Menzingen's view is that the early actions of the Society were 'of the moment' and that new conditions apply.

So, instead of fighting the conciliar church, we apply our energies towards the 'reform of the Church' with understanding and charity, a slow ongoing task to be shared with other Catholics when one day the real meaning of the Council will emerge and prevail. This is of course the language and thinking of the new church he is using. Liberalism is all about reforming the Church constantly and the Society likes to think that it has a part to play in the Council's long-term project by joining the debate. Here, Fr. P, the sleep-walking Society and its habitual laity are effectively saying goodbye to the old church after a brief period of reluctance.

Ekim · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2014, 06:42:43 AM »

I agree with Father when he says traditionalist are ridged, locked into themselves, and always condemning. Anyone who has traveled in Traditional circles long enough must admit that this is true. Just last week there was a small family who had never been to the Latin Mass. I watched the "faithful ". Some made facial expressions that clearly indicated their displeasure with slacks and no head covering. After Mass others walked by and just looked at the ground. Luckily, there were a few who were very welcoming. One kind lady even went and sat next to them, offering them missals and showing them how to use it. Most however ignored them. Why? Fear? Pride? Lack of charity? HMMmmmm...

There are the "little house on the prairie" folks who openly claim that if you don't ware prairie dresses, can your own food and slaughter your own meat you are somehow too worldly. We have intense home schoolers who, with tears rolling down their face preach your children will go to hell if you send them to school. We have the holier then thaugh types who boldly quote papal docuмents and spew off Lain phrases to pontificate their Catholicism ....throw in the conspiracy theorist, sedevecantists, and the pious prayers, and you have a mixed bag of pickles. We even had one person frown in disbelief that we actually let our kids join the local soccer team and little league baseball.

There is a lack of charity in Traditional circles that must be addressed. We use to have a very good priest who was great at coralling the factions. One time he preached that if God wanted us all to live on little house on the prairie he'd have had us born in 1857. If that's how you choose to live your life That's fine as long as you understand that such a lifestyle may not be for everyone, nor does that Catholic Church require it. He was great at breaking down these cliques. Once left these cliques started to return.

I believe something must be done to address this issue. One visitor to tradition said "these people are all over the map." However compromising with doctrine, sleeping with modernist Rome, and ignoring the danger (poisoned soup) of Vatican II is not the answer. We must continue to shout these dangers from the rooftop. Like St Bernard said, a Catholic priest must be like a guard dog who barks at approaching danger. If the dog stops barking, it's useless.

Ecclesia Militans · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2014, 06:51:36 AM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson

Comment:

Unless this post is a flat out fraud, it is incredible to me that a single priest stays in the SSPX, and that the Menzingen denizens have the effrontery to pretend they have not been consciously liberalizing the once-traditional Society.

And that faithful continue to attend neo-SSPX Masses.

Graham · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2014, 07:43:45 AM »

I'd be very grateful for a proper translation and identification/confirmation of the source.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2014, 08:02:29 AM »

Quote from: Graham

I'd be very grateful for a proper translation and identification/confirmation of the source.

As would I.

Here is what Nonpossumus says at the beginning of the 1st installment of the 7 part series:

"During a retreat to the brothers in late December, the Father Pfluger delivered this lecture series. Do not forget that the Father Pfluger is No. 2 in the fraternity.

Here is the first of seven conferences.

1ra. CONFERENCE FATHER PFLUGER
Retreat given to siblings of the SSPX
Flavigny - Christmas 2013

(Notes obtained by different methods from those used by Menzingen mailings regarding Father Rioult)."

Comment:

Because of the dumbfounding scandalous words attributed to Fr Pfluger, I am going to refrain from posting anymore on the subject until better authentication can be made.

Ancien Regime and TheRecusant are currently translating the entire series, which is rotten from start to finish, but confirming the contents and authorship also needs to be done.

I urge Catholic charity and restraint until that can be ascertained or refuted, and categorical resistance to this insanity should it prove to be true.

Meanwhile, Fr Pfluger is still entitled to the benefit of the doubt.

cantatedomino · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2014, 08:19:16 AM »

Quote from: Ekim

I agree with Father when he says traditionalist are ridged, locked into themselves, and always condemning. Anyone who has traveled in Traditional circles long enough must admit that this is true. Just last week there was a small family who had never been to the Latin Mass. I watched the "faithful ". Some made facial expressions that clearly indicated their displeasure with slacks and no head covering. After Mass others walked by and just looked at the ground. Luckily, there were a few who were very welcoming. One kind lady even went and sat next to them, offering them missals and showing them how to use it. Most however ignored them. Why? Fear? Pride? Lack of charity? HMMmmmm...

There are the "little house on the prairie" folks who openly claim that if you don't ware prairie dresses, can your own food and slaughter your own meat you are somehow too worldly. We have intense home schoolers who, with tears rolling down their face preach your children will go to hell if you send them to school. We have the holier then thaugh types who boldly quote papal docuмents and spew off Lain phrases to pontificate their Catholicism ....throw in the conspiracy theorist, sedevecantists, and the pious prayers, and you have a mixed bag of pickles. We even had one person frown in disbelief that we actually let our kids join the local soccer team and little league baseball.

There is a lack of charity in Traditional circles that must be addressed. We use to have a very good priest who was great at coralling the factions. One time he preached that if God wanted us all to live on little house on the prairie he'd have had us born in 1857. If that's how you choose to live your life That's fine as long as you understand that such a lifestyle may not be for everyone, nor does that Catholic Church require it. He was great at breaking down these cliques. Once left these cliques started to return.

I believe something must be done to address this issue. One visitor to tradition said "these people are all over the map." However compromising with doctrine, sleeping with modernist Rome, and ignoring the danger (poisoned soup) of Vatican II is not the answer. We must continue to shout these dangers from the rooftop. Like St Bernard said, a Catholic priest must be like a guard dog who barks at approaching danger. If the dog stops barking, it's useless.

This is an excellent post.

We must always distinguish, as you have done, between the lack of charity you describe - a very real scourge on Tradition - and the destruction of the Faith.

Those who would destroy the Faith, use the real lack of charity to gain a foothold.

Those who are ravenous dogs, and bitter zealots, use the very real threat of a doctrinal slide to maintain their current hegemony.

What to do?

I suppose we keep the Faith with zeal, and practice loving-kindness and moderation with the ignorance of the poor souls who sincerely desire Christ but don't have the knowledge or the externals.

Wait a minute!!! Isn't that what the Church has always done?

Hmmm. . . maybe trads are not as 'Catholic' as they think they are.

cathman7 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2014, 08:26:06 AM »

Traditional Catholicism must transform our entire outlook on life. The petty mode of Catholicism that many promote will be ineffective in bringing the world back to Christ. This is one reason I support Bishop Williamson because he sees the BIG PICTURE.

P.S. The Fr. Pfluger conference is just awful if true.

ancien regime · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2014, 08:48:47 AM »

Quote from: Graham

I'd be very grateful for a proper translation and identification/confirmation of the source.

The editor of the Recusant and I are working on a "proper" translation.

However, we cannot be held responsible for the faulty reasoning and twisted syntax of Fr. Pfluger. His speech is becoming so Novus-Ordo-like that translating it almost makes one's head explode in trying to untangle what he is saying.

As Bishop Williamson so appropriately says, "Kyrie eleison."

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #10 on:** January 25, 2014, 08:50:59 AM »

.

In general, over the years, I have often wondered why Fr. Pfluger's speeches have not in the main been made public. Whenever he has reared his head he hasn't had much to say that has been spiritually uplifting, IMHO. His tone and content have ALWAYS smacked of rank politics, and devoid of something Catholic and uplifting. It's as though he has been lying low, or perhaps doing his wormwood-work on the inside. This present news would seem to support that notion.

Quote from: GoogleTran said Fr. Pfluger

The reform of the Church will occur, but gradually, and we must cooperate from within, but still protected.

We must purify the SSPX elements opposed to this, as to be heard must be provided and be obedient to the Pope.

Our return to the fold change initiatives that generate gradually come to the Pope, and then the expected reform of the Church will [happen]."

It seems his main theme is the DENIAL of the principle of "no accord with an unconverted Rome." He says it again and again, using different arrangements of words.

Quote from: SeanJohnson

And take note: Fr. Pfluger announces his intention to "purify" the SSPX of those "elements" who still oppose a merely practical accord and Vatican II.

Jaw dropping stuff.

Good call, SeanJohnson.

And I likewise appreciate the preliminary assessment of Wessex:

Quote from: Wessex

He articulates the new direction, which is a few years ahead of that still lingering in remote outposts of the Society.

And he confirms that it is passing through a transitional stage away from battles lost to a more sympathetic understanding of reality and how best to participate in that reality.

In terms of the hardest of ABL's stances, Fr. Pfluger's mission is abject surrender.

But he will doubtless say that the founder always left the door open for reality to dawn on his intransigent followers one day.

Whether this is true or not, Menzingen's view is that the early actions of the Society were 'of the moment' and that new conditions apply.

So, instead of fighting the conciliar church, we apply our energies towards the 'reform of the Church' with understanding and charity, a slow ongoing task to be shared with other Catholics, when one day the real meaning of the Council will emerge and prevail.

This is of course the language and thinking of the new church he is using.

Liberalism is all about reforming the Church constantly, and the Society likes to think that it has a part to play in the Council's long-term project -- by joining the debate.

Here, Fr. Pfluger, the sleep-walking Society, and its habitual laity are effectively saying goodbye to the old church after a brief period of reluctance.

That's really beautiful, Wessex. We are honored to have your contribution to the Literature of the Resistance.

Anyone who knows an applicant to the Society seminaries should write this down and make sure he receives a copy. It could make a difference.

.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2014, 09:04:35 AM »

Quote from: ancien regime

Quote from: Graham
I'd be very grateful for a proper translation and identification/confirmation of the source.

The editor of the Recusant and I are working on a "proper" translation.

However, we cannot be held responsible for the faulty reasoning and twisted syntax of Fr. Pfluger. His speech is becoming so Novus-Ordo-like that translating it almost makes one's head explode in trying to untangle what he is saying.

As Bishop Williamson so appropriately says, "Kyrie eleison."

The wreckovationists did the same thing at Vat.II -- it was all in Latin, but they managed to tweak the language that has for thousands of years protected the doctrine of the Church, into something that attacks itself. The principle achievement of the unclean spirit of Vat.II was to make Latin a weapon AGAINST the Church, instead of against her ENEMIES.

Now you're seeing it in another language, French, or German, as you "try to untangle what he is saying."

While nonpossumus tries to give him the benefit of the doubt, it's already telling that the unclean spirit of Vatican II has LONG possessed the Society's number two man.

.

JPaul · « **Reply #12 on:** January 25, 2014, 09:33:26 AM »

This estrangement from other Catholics and each other is born of the sectarian and cultic mentality which has arisen within Tradition and particularly in the SSPX/Resistance/Sede segments.

We have been so internally focused(with encouragement from the leaders), that we have lost sight of the Church as a whole, as well as our brethren whom we might bring out of the darkness of Conciliarism and unto salvation.

Should we be rigourists? Should we be rigid about Doctrine and Catholic comportment? Absolutely, yes, but our rigor should always come to the other in the cloak of concerned Charity. Concern for the Church, concern for the immortal souls around us, concerned for the scrutiny of God's eyes upon us. The truth should not be used as a bludgeon, rather it should be applied as a salve to the wounded souls that we encounter.

But we are too easily scandalized too many times, which becomes an unintended indulgence of pride after a time. I wonder what might be worse in God's sight, an uncovered head and legs, born of ignorance or a veil of prideful
condemnation upon our own?

Charity is bringing forth the truth of the Masters Gospel in kindness and patience. A refusal to shun and condemn, a rejection of these things for Christ's sake. While he waits upon His altar at Mass, does he look out upon Love for Him or malice for our brother?

If this account is accurate and Father Pfluger's Francis like blather is true, then ponder this, both he and Bishop Fellay and all of the other liberal minded clerics of the SSPX were educated and formed in the seminaries of the Society. Here is an end product. It is no accident. Setting aside individual character, there was something in the principles, attitudes, and philosophy in their training that inclined rather than excluded their minds to slide in this direction.

The seed was in them, it is in all of the priests that came from them whether they be resistance or sede, or Society proper.

cantatedomino · « **Reply #13 on:** January 25, 2014, 10:20:40 AM »

Quote from: obscurus

Traditional Catholicism must transform our entire outlook on life. The petty mode of Catholicism that many promote will be ineffective in bringing the world back to Christ. This is one reason I support Bishop Williamson because he sees the BIG PICTURE.

P.S. The Fr. Pfluger conference is just awful if true.

Good post!

cantatedomino · « **Reply #14 on:** January 25, 2014, 10:26:28 AM »

Quote from: J.Paul

This estrangement from other Catholics and each other is born of the sectarian and cultic mentality which has arisen within Tradition and particularly in the SSPX/Resistance/Sede segments.

Absolutely true.

This is the sine qua non issue which needs to be addressed.