Author Topic: ROME REJECTS SSPX Preamble Text (Read 6424 times)

wallflower · « **Reply #15 on:** June 14, 2012, 08:30:22 AM »

Quote from: Guga

Quote from: Marie
From La Croix:

[In Bishop Fellay's text] there remained however formulations judged non-acceptable by Rome, notably the mention of the "errors of the council": to put it clearly, the Society may have reservation on this or that point of Vatican II (freedom of conscience, interreligious dialogue, ecuмenism), but they cannot speak of the "errors of the council".

http://www.la-croix.com/Religion/Urbi-Orbi/Rome/Mgr-Fellay-a-recu-la-reponse-de-Benoit-XVI-pour-la-reintegration-de-la-Fraternite-Saint-Pie-X-_NG_-2012-06-13-818090

It can be a sign that the resistance is greater than +Fellay thought it would be. They are ruining too fast. Why Rome would make an agreement if + Fellay don't have the majority? If that is the case, Rome just sent +Flellay back to his work ( breaking the resistance) until the next evil manoeuvre.

Or +Fellay is sincerely looking for the best for the SSPX with regards to preaching against the Council and it's too much for the Vatican to accept.

Ethelred · « **Reply #16 on:** June 14, 2012, 08:45:05 AM »

Quote from: Guga

It can be a sign that the resistance is greater than +Fellay thought it would be. They are ruining too fast. Why Rome would make an agreement if + Fellay don't have the majority? If that is the case, Rome just sent +Flellay back to his work ( breaking the resistance) until the next evil manoeuvre.

Yes. Those brave clerics who publicly opposed the sellout and who're therefore now under fire or already expelled (or nearly expelled like Fr. Chazal), have done an important part: they helped the resistance to get started at all, and they saved it.

Quote from: Francisco

This is remarkable. Bishop Fellay in his latest interview told us that it was the Pope rather than himself who wants this deal. Therefore, would not the Pope or his advisers have helped Bishop Fellay with his answer to the Doctrinal Preamble? How could he have said "errors" of Vatican II if his hand was being moved by the Pope?
And ...did he not tell us that the Pope would accept the SSPX as it is?

Bishop Fellay constantly contradicts himself since several months now. It's hardly possible to watch anymore.
I wished he and his allies would alone join the heretical and schismatic Newchurch, because firstly they absolutely belong the the double-thinking Newpope and his double-thinking New-Church, and secondly they would not bother anymore those who just try to uphold the Faith in the SSPX.

Quote

Perhaps the Most Holy Virgin is answering all those Rosary (Rusery) Crusades in the way she knows best!

For sure.

Guga · « **Reply #17 on:** June 14, 2012, 08:49:33 AM »

Quote from: wallflower

Quote from: Guga
Quote from: Marie
From La Croix:

[In Bishop Fellay's text] there remained however formulations judged non-acceptable by Rome, notably the mention of the "errors of the council": to put it clearly, the Society may have reservation on this or that point of Vatican II (freedom of conscience, interreligious dialogue, ecuмenism), but they cannot speak of the "errors of the council".

http://www.la-croix.com/Religion/Urbi-Orbi/Rome/Mgr-Fellay-a-recu-la-reponse-de-Benoit-XVI-pour-la-reintegration-de-la-Fraternite-Saint-Pie-X-_NG_-2012-06-13-818090

It can be a sign that the resistance is greater than +Fellay thought it would be. They are ruining too fast. Why Rome would make an agreement if + Fellay don't have the majority? If that is the case, Rome just sent +Flellay back to his work ( breaking the resistance) until the next evil manoeuvre.

Or +Fellay is sincerely looking for the best for the SSPX with regards to preaching against the Council and it's too much for the Vatican to accept.

Them +Fellay should apologise and recognize to all that the Pope is not whom he thought he was.
After that I will think if I can believe in +Fellay again.

JPaul · « **Reply #18 on:** June 14, 2012, 09:13:34 AM »

Quote from: Guga

Quote from: wallflower
Quote from: Guga
Quote from: Marie
From La Croix:

[In Bishop Fellay's text] there remained however formulations judged non-acceptable by Rome, notably the mention of the "errors of the council": to put it clearly, the Society may have reservation on this or that point of Vatican II (freedom of conscience, interreligious dialogue, ecuмenism), but they cannot speak of the "errors of the council".

http://www.la-croix.com/Religion/Urbi-Orbi/Rome/Mgr-Fellay-a-recu-la-reponse-de-Benoit-XVI-pour-la-reintegration-de-la-Fraternite-Saint-Pie-X-_NG_-2012-06-13-818090

It can be a sign that the resistance is greater than +Fellay thought it would be. They are ruining too fast. Why Rome would make an agreement if + Fellay don't have the majority? If that is the case, Rome just sent +Flellay back to his work ( breaking the resistance) until the next evil manoeuvre.

Or +Fellay is sincerely looking for the best for the SSPX with regards to preaching against the Council and it's too much for the Vatican to accept.

Them +Fellay should apologise and recognize to all that the Pope is not whom he thought he was.
After that I will think if I can believe in +Fellay again.

I have thought about that and come to the conclusion that after all that Bishop Fellay has done and said, that it would be near impossible to trust him again. He has eaten of the poison fruit and it has changed him.

TKGS · « **Reply #19 on:** June 14, 2012, 09:29:26 AM »

The fact that Bishop Fellay has insisted upon using the term, "errors of the Council", is encouraging.

It is also undeniable that virtually all of the problems of the past few weeks would absolutely have been completely avoided had Bishop Fellay and his staff been completely open and honest with the priests and faithful (and, yes, even the bishops) of the Society in the way Archbishop Lefebvre was. After each session with Roman representatives, Archbishop Lefebvre made known precisely what had transpired (and, if not each and every time, nearly all the time).

Because of this clandestine attitude of Bishop Fellay, I would still encourage that the SSPX replace him at the soonest possible opportunity and appoint someone else, preferably a priest that has not been part of the recent plans, as the Superior General of the Society.

Ethelred · « **Reply #20 on:** June 14, 2012, 09:33:14 AM »

Quote from: J.Paul

I have thought about that and come to the conclusion that after all that Bishop Fellay has done and said, that it would be near impossible to trust him again. He has eaten of the poison fruit and it has changed him.

Absolutely.

Even if Bishop Fellay would retract all the liberal nonsense he said in the last months, and if he would repent his objective betrayal of the Faith, he could never again be the leader of a traditional catholic society. That's common sense.

It's clear today that Bishop Fellay does not have the talents to guide a traditional catholic society. Some good (SSPX) priests say he never had, and several catholics and non-catholics learned it in 2009 (or before), when he allied with the vile media to destroy his fellow bishop (Bishop Williamson).
But today it's absolutely clear.

There are other tasks such a cleric could fulfil. For example in a contemplative monastery he could devote his talents wholly to God. In the good old days this was common practice. And we catholics know how important contemplative monasteries are, so this always was a true win-win situation, and it would be again in this case.

Diego · « **Reply #21 on:** June 14, 2012, 09:53:36 AM »

:applause:

Quote from: Ethelred

Quote from: J.Paul
I have thought about that and come to the conclusion that after all that Bishop Fellay has done and said, that it would be near impossible to trust him again. He has eaten of the poison fruit and it has changed him.

Absolutely.

Even if Bishop Fellay would retract all the liberal nonsense he said in the last months, and if he would repent his objective betrayal of the Faith, he could never again be the leader of a traditional catholic society. That's common sense.

It's clear today that Bishop Fellay does not have the talents to guide a traditional catholic society. Some good (SSPX) priests say he never had, and several catholics and non-catholics learned it in 2009 (or before), when he allied with the vile media to destroy his fellow bishop (Bishop Williamson).
But today it's absolutely clear.

There are other tasks such a cleric could fulfil. For example in a contemplative monastery he could devote his talents wholly to God. In the good old days this was common practice. And we catholics know how important contemplative monasteries are, so this always was a true win-win situation, and it would be again in this case.

:applause:

AJNC · « **Reply #22 on:** June 14, 2012, 12:13:02 PM »

Quote from: Ethelred

Quote from: J.Paul
I have thought about that and come to the conclusion that after all that Bishop Fellay has done and said, that it would be near impossible to trust him again. He has eaten of the poison fruit and it has changed him.

Absolutely.

Even if Bishop Fellay would retract all the liberal nonsense he said in the last months, and if he would repent his objective betrayal of the Faith, he could never again be the leader of a traditional catholic society. That's common sense.

It's clear today that Bishop Fellay does not have the talents to guide a traditional catholic society. Some good (SSPX) priests say he never had, and several catholics and non-catholics learned it in 2009 (or before), when he allied with the vile media to destroy his fellow bishop (Bishop Williamson).
But today it's absolutely clear.

There are other tasks such a cleric could fulfil. For example in a contemplative monastery he could devote his talents wholly to God. In the good old days this was common practice. And we catholics know how important contemplative monasteries are, so this always was a true win-win situation, and it would be again in this case.

You may recall that Bp Williamson made some tapes for Triumph Communications in Canada in the 1990s, where he said that once the Church was recovered all the modernist prelates would have to recant their errors, and be demoted. Otherwise they would be kicked out.
Look where we have reached. It is Bp Fellay who should be doing the recantation!

JPaul · « **Reply #23 on:** June 14, 2012, 12:34:14 PM »

Quote from: Ethelred

Quote from: J.Paul
I have thought about that and come to the conclusion that after all that Bishop Fellay has done and said, that it would be near impossible to trust him again. He has eaten of the poison fruit and it has changed him.

Absolutely.

Even if Bishop Fellay would retract all the liberal nonsense he said in the last months, and if he would repent his objective betrayal of the Faith, he could never again be the leader of a traditional catholic society. That's common sense.

It's clear today that Bishop Fellay does not have the talents to guide a traditional catholic society. Some good (SSPX) priests say he never had, and several catholics and non-catholics learned it in 2009 (or before), when he allied with the vile media to destroy his fellow bishop (Bishop Williamson).
But today it's absolutely clear.

There are other tasks such a cleric could fulfil. For example in a contemplative monastery he could devote his talents wholly to God. In the good old days this was common practice. And we catholics know how important contemplative monasteries are, so this always was a true win-win situation, and it would be again in this case.

That is a good and Christian hope to ponder. I tend to think though, that the Bishop has business adminstration in his blood. He has always found himself at the business of religion. Perhaps this is how they seduced him? By means of the East German sayanim serpent whispering in his ear and showing him how to do "business".
Objectively speaking, that a person of his persuasion and tastes could be intimately involved with the Superior of a Catholic religious union is beyond imaginings. But it stands as the exposure of that union's infiltration and corruption. Without doubt!
We will soon see the evil fruits of the dessicated tree when the issue of the Society's assets and properties unfolds. This will be the Devil's means to prevent the Society from continuing.

Incredulous · « **Reply #24 on:** June 14, 2012, 01:43:46 PM »

Quote from: Wessex

What this shows really is over time the hardliners (justifiably IMHO) have got harder and the softliners softer. The gulf between the two is wider than ever because of the 'agreement' battleground ... and I cannot see them being reconciled whatever happens.

Like you said before, the doctrinal talks with Rome have always been "theater" for the faithful. In this latest episode, Fellay goes through the act of feigning prudence, in his ludricous request for "time to reflect".

Incredulous · « **Reply #25 on:** June 14, 2012, 01:47:36 PM »

Quote from: Ethelred

Quote from: J.Paul
I have thought about that and come to the conclusion that after all that Bishop Fellay has done and said, that it would be near impossible to trust him again. He has eaten of the poison fruit and it has changed him.

Absolutely.

Even if Bishop Fellay would retract all the liberal nonsense he said in the last months, and if he would repent his objective betrayal of the Faith, he could never again be the leader of a traditional catholic society. That's common sense.

It's clear today that Bishop Fellay does not have the talents to guide a traditional catholic society. Some good (SSPX) priests say he never had, and several catholics and non-catholics learned it in 2009 (or before), when he allied with the vile media to destroy his fellow bishop (Bishop Williamson).
But today it's absolutely clear.

There are other tasks such a cleric could fulfil. For example in a contemplative monastery he could devote his talents wholly to God. In the good old days this was common practice. And we catholics know how important contemplative monasteries are, so this always was a true win-win situation, and it would be again in this case.

Bishop (Judas) Fellay... sent away to a monastery... for life.

:geezer:

MyrnaM · « **Reply #26 on:** June 14, 2012, 01:55:42 PM »

W H E W !!! In regard to the OP

(Whipes forehead)

AntiFellayism · « **Reply #27 on:** June 14, 2012, 02:14:02 PM »

Quote from: Incredulous

Quote from: Ethelred
Quote from: J.Paul
I have thought about that and come to the conclusion that after all that Bishop Fellay has done and said, that it would be near impossible to trust him again. He has eaten of the poison fruit and it has changed him.

Absolutely.

Even if Bishop Fellay would retract all the liberal nonsense he said in the last months, and if he would repent his objective betrayal of the Faith, he could never again be the leader of a traditional catholic society. That's common sense.

It's clear today that Bishop Fellay does not have the talents to guide a traditional catholic society. Some good (SSPX) priests say he never had, and several catholics and non-catholics learned it in 2009 (or before), when he allied with the vile media to destroy his fellow bishop (Bishop Williamson).
But today it's absolutely clear.

There are other tasks such a cleric could fulfil. For example in a contemplative monastery he could devote his talents wholly to God. In the good old days this was common practice. And we catholics know how important contemplative monasteries are, so this always was a true win-win situation, and it would be again in this case.

Bishop (Judas) Fellay... sent away to a monastery... for life.

:geezer:

Nah, that would be to peaceful a life. I'd vote for an exile in an obscure country in political/spiritual turmoil... That would though him up and train him to really convert people cost what it may.

catherineofsiena · « **Reply #28 on:** June 14, 2012, 04:17:57 PM »

This is a face saving move for Rome and +Fellay. I find it impossible to believe that after two years of doctrinal talks, a year of back and forth texts, meetings and negotiations that both sides don't know exactly what is acceptable to the other side.

Keep your powder dry. This is delayed, not over.

Ethelred · « **Reply #29 on:** June 15, 2012, 02:56:28 AM »

Quote from: AJNC

You may recall that Bp Williamson made some tapes for Triumph Communications in Canada in the 1990s, where he said that once the Church was recovered all the modernist prelates would have to recant their errors, and be demoted. Otherwise they would be kicked out.

I didn't know this tape, but as always: thank you for this good information about Bishop Williamson. He's a very wise and faithful cleric. God save him!

Quote

Look where we have reached. It is Bp Fellay who should be doing the recantation!

Oh yes.
But only after the general chapter (mid of July 2012) we'll see if the SSPX can survive.

P.S. Catherineofsiena, you're right.