Author Topic: Rome quits dialog with SSPX (Read 13336 times)

Against the Heresies · « **on:** July 07, 2013, 01:21:19 AM »

In an upcoming statement the Prefect oft he CDF, Mgr. Gerhard Ludwig Müller, is going to announce the end of the dialog with the SSPX, as German News magazine "FOCUS" reports.

The reason for this step is the "Declaration" of the SSPX Bishops on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the episcopal consecrations.

According to "FOCUS" Mgr. Müller commentated the "Declaration" with the words: "That’s enough!"

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2013, 01:28:43 AM »

Don't believe it. Many lies on top of lies.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2013, 01:31:06 AM »

They say things for the public but behind closed doors they say something different.

Against the Heresies · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2013, 04:53:10 AM »

Additional information:

Google translation:

Quote

SERIOUS SITUATION IN ROME (ru, June 25, 2013).

Bishop Fellay said on June 20 in Paris that Müller Cardinal, Prefect of the Congregation of the Faith, the Vatican has told the SSPX it should waive the annual ordinations scheduled for 29 June 2013 in Écône .

According to Bishop Fellay it is a casus belli. Since Bishop Müller realizes that the Brotherhood can not in any way stop the ordinations of new priests, unless you want to commit ѕυιcιdє, it is possible that Bishop Müller is a new ban (excommunication), claiming this insubordination or disobedience . What happens after that, no one can say at the moment, everything is in the hands of Providence.

Already in the previous years, when he was bishop of Regensburg, Bishop Müller had declared during Zaitzkofen ordinations in the diocese where the German seminary of the SSPX, that these consecrations were invalid, ruling that no pope n has never spoken. Why Benedict XVI he appointed to such a position in Rome? Mystery.

Original (full) article:

Quote

SITUATION GRAVE A ROME (ru, 25 juin 2013). – Mgr Fellay a déclaré le 20 juin à Paris que le cardinal Müller, préfet de la Congrégation de la Foi au Vatican, a fait savoir à la Fraternité Saint Pie X qu’elle devrait renoncer aux ordinations annuelles prévues pour le 29 juin 2013 à Ecône. Selon Mgr Fellay il s’agit d’un casus belli. Puisque Mgr Müller se rend bien compte que la Fraternité ne peut en aucun cas arrêter les ordinations de nouveaux prêtres, à moins de vouloir se ѕυιcιdєr, il se pourrait que Mgr Müller vise un nouveau ban (excommunication ?), en prétextant cette insoumission ou désobéissance. Ce qui se passera après cela, personne ne peut le dire à l’heure actuelle, tout étant entre les mains de la Providence. Déjà dans les années précédentes, quand il fut l’évêque de Regensburg, Mgr Müller avait déclaré, lors des ordinations à Zaitzkofen dans son diocèse où se trouve le séminaire allemand de la FSSPX, que ces sacres seraient invalides, jugement qu’aucun pape n’a jamais prononcé. Pourquoi Benoît XVI l’a-t-il nommé à un tel poste à Rome ? Mystère.

Du pape François Mgr Fellay disait qu’on entend de lui beaucoup de choses, tous les jours, comme d’un très bon curé ; mais qu’est-ce qu’il ferait en tant que pape ? Est-ce qu’il s’occupe des problèmes de l’Eglise universelle ? Est-on en train de dissoudre la fonction pontificale de Saint Pierre en la sacrifiant sur l’autel de l’œcuмénisme? Autre mystère.

Mgr Fellay a cité un diocèse où, selon un sondage, 78% des prêtres catholiques ne croiraient plus en la présence réelle du Christ sous les saintes espèces. Cette perte de foi du clergé serait universelle dans l’Eglise. Voilà un sujet sur lequel le Saint Père devrait se pencher, non pas comme curé mais comme pape. Pourquoi cette perte de foi des prêtres? Benoît XVI aurait déclaré que cette catastrophe, avec toutes les autres, ne provient pas du Concile lui-même, mais de « l’esprit du Concile » propagé par les média. Pour Mgr Fellay c’est une fuite devant la vérité, permettant de ne rien faire. Car ce ne seraient pas les média qui auraient créé la nouvelle messe qui a chassé les fidèles, mais bien les évêques ! La situation à Rome serait donc très grave, tant qu’une prise de conscience réelle ne se ferait pas jour. Il faut beaucoup prier pour le pape et l’Eglise universelle, le pire n’étant pas sûr, mais possible. Tout est entre les mains de Dieu. A noter aussi que la FSSPX n’a plus assez d’évêques pour répondre aux demandes des pays frappant à sa porte, comme récemment 3 pays en Amérique Latine. - ru

John Grace · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2013, 07:58:48 AM »

No doubt the propaganda machine will attack the resistance, and urge them to return to the chapels, and quit their folly. All is ok now. Believe the "Traditional" Bishop Fellay. New Templar and others in Ireland would believe him regardless. I realise others in the resistance will disagree but confront these Fellayites at every opportunity.

Again I challenge New Templar to defend Bishop Fellay on this forum?

Raphaela · « **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:01:29 AM »

Quote from: Against the Heresies

Already in the previous years, when he was bishop of Regensburg, Bishop Müller had declared during Zaitzkofen ordinations in the diocese where the German seminary of the SSPX, that these consecrations were invalid, ruling that no pope has never spoken. Why Benedict XVI he appointed to such a position in Rome? Mystery.

What sort of head of the CDF can claim that ordinations are invalid just because they're done without permission? Doesn't he know any theology? These people are beyond belief!

John Grace · « **Reply #6 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:11:50 AM »

It lessens the prospect of people leaving Society chapels. I still understand the need for so many threads on the topic. Nothing will happen until Bishop Felay sells out. A handful of cranks and the fringe of the SSPX have left chapels but by and large, priests and laity are behind Bishop Fellay. The Williamson faction is very much a lunatic fringe in Ireland and an embarrassment.

Why for example did the Irish SSPX Youth group stay away from his conference?

John Grace · « **Reply #7 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:22:13 AM »

How many challenged Fr Morgan when he strong armed an elderly women, who sought to ask Bishop Fellay a question?

John Grace · « **Reply #8 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:26:20 AM »

Whilst there is support for Bishop Williamson in Ireland, my point about the youth group is they clearly sought to distance themselves from the Bishop. Why then arrange an outing to West Cork? As far as I am aware, Fr Sherry asked them to change date but perhaps Mr Walsh can explain what happened? Why the snub of Bishop Williamson?

Against the Heresies · « **Reply #9 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:31:53 AM »

Quote from: Raphaela

Quote from: Against the Heresies

Already in the previous years, when he was bishop of Regensburg, Bishop Müller had declared during Zaitzkofen ordinations in the diocese where the German seminary of the SSPX, that these consecrations were invalid, ruling that no pope has never spoken. Why Benedict XVI he appointed to such a position in Rome? Mystery.

What sort of head of the CDF can claim that ordinations are invalid just because they're done without permission? Doesn't he know any theology? These people are beyond belief!

There’s an error in the French article! Mgr. Müller never claimed, that the SSPX ordinations are invalid, but he often stated in interviews and press releases that they are illicit.

Every year, especially since 2009, he was very furious when ordinations were conferred in Zaitzkofen. He then spoke e.g. of the "intractability" an the "narrow-mindedness" oft he SSPX.

Columba · « **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:52:14 AM »

Quote from: John Grace

No doubt the propaganda machine will attack the resistance, and urge them to return to the chapels, and quit their folly. All is ok now. Believe the "Traditional" Bishop Fellay.

The continued progress of the Resistance has panicked Menzingen into a disorderly retreat. They will remain in full retrench mode until enough of the pew-sitters have forgetten the close call of 2012. The best they can do now is to continue to marginalize those priests and seminarians considered too "rigid."

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2013, 10:00:03 AM »

Quote from: John Grace

No doubt the propaganda machine will attack the resistance, and urge them to return to the chapels, and quit their folly. All is ok now. Believe the "Traditional" Bishop Fellay. New Templar and others in Ireland would believe him regardless. I realise others in the resistance will disagree but confront these Fellayites at every opportunity.

Again I challenge New Templar to defend Bishop Fellay on this forum?

You are right.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2013, 10:01:57 AM »

Quote from: John Grace

How many challenged Fr Morgan when he strong armed an elderly women, who sought to ask Bishop Fellay a question?

That's a shame

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2013, 10:04:01 AM »

.

Congratulations to each and every member posting here so far.

Your insight, common sense, fortitude, perception and honesty
is a model for all the world to see.

And for outsiders: Welcome to CathInfo at its finest!

Alleluia.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2013, 10:06:49 AM »

Novus Ordo hierarchy tactics created by United States
Conference of "catholic" bishops. They control Rome.