Author Topic: Review of B. Fellays conference in VA (Read 10403 times)

dreamtomorrow · « **on:** April 27, 2014, 11:34:11 AM »

This weekend I attended a random conference B. Fellay was having at the new seminary in Dillwyn VA. I went to see if he would comment on the false canonizations and whether he would address the "rumors"/resistance. I tried to have an open mind and listen to what he had to say with no bias. Initial reaction when arriving-"Where is everyone?" Maybe 200 but not quite 300 people. There were two tents one for the Mass and the other for the dinner. To my surprise everything was free. They had regular porta-potties and then a few super fancy porta potties (flushed, sink, large mirror, seat cover--the works!
There was no special occasion for the conference, it was simply because. The topic for the conference was not announced, I asked around beforehand, no one knew.
The sermon included (my notes are mainly paraphrased or excerpts of things I thought important):
~God is with us always, it is only through Him that things happen and we should be grateful. (Possibly leading towards if an agreement happens it is thanks to God and it was meant to happen because He willed it).
~Easter is a time of resurrection and we see something (what?) rising out of the Earth, everything comes from His hands, these buildings coming out of the Earth (seminary). This building is like a sign (of good things to come?) it will be here long after we are gone for future generations, it ensures/makes more sure our (SSPX's) survival.
~The Church is infected with a virus and it is killing the Church, mentions loss of faith, 7,000 churches being torn down in Europe, only 1 priest ordained in the diocese of Rome last year. 1 priest may be responsible for 60 churches.
~He criticized the council a lot and especially Pope Francis regarding good people can be saved.
~"There is something deeply wrong with a church who is pleasing to the world"--person of the year pope, etc.
"If you want your children to lose their Faith, send them to my schools"--Pope Francis.
~exPope Benedict "There is nothing wrong with tradition; what past popes said regarding tradition is good for the time it was said, things have changed"
~The Church complains that the world (I guess meaning modernism or corruption) is everywhere and B. Fellay says the remedy is simple, come back! But they do not want.
~He repeated again his quote about the two cannonizations that "we deeply deeply protest. Through these the church will lose credibility."

After dinner the conference was held
He began by saying the conference was going to touch on the stages of the Church and he wanted to address the "false rumors" that have been spreading. I got excited because I thought he was going to address the main ones with proof of why they are untrue, as you will see, that was not the case.

He began with declining stages of the church which has been visited over and over so I did not find that noteworthy.
Then he commented on the evils of the internet
~On the internet there is no authority (who would be an authority there? If there was would there be censorship?) Everyone has an opinion to share. (Isn't that a good thing? We are not supposed to be clones or mimic each other)
~Multiply sins by spreading rumors (I'm not sure whether that was exact quote but then he gave example of a girl who confessed spreading a rumor and her confessor counselled her by saying that it was like spreading a handful of feathers to the wind and in order to be redeemed she had to retrieve the feathers which is impossible.
~God doesn't need the internet, Padre Pio did not need the internet.
~Where are the priests (N.O. priests) leading the people?
~The Pope is not a man of doctrine, he is a man of practice.
~Korah: if you recognize Jesus as Our Lord it is a blasphemy. Pope Francis invites Muslims to pray.
~ABL said Do you accept this, this, and this, if no then we cannot have agreement (that famous quanta cura quote I didn't write down because I have it noted elsewhere). But when B. Fellay approached them they said of course we accept! At the end they asked us (B. Fellay and his helpers) to help them (Rome) overcome the contradictions.
~There will be no agreement, only a continuing of tolerance to most things by the Vatican.
~N.O. Cardinal says don't make an agreement, stay as you are, Vatican II needs you! (Then why couldn't SSPX priests say that freely?)

I asked him the last point after the conference (there was no Q and A session) Bishop responded that the priests were not expelled for being against agreement. They all had different problems for which they were punished for (maybe disobedience?) but there are no public statements for why the priests were expelled because the laity love/d them and if they publicized why they were expelled then the people may be angry or scandalized. And I asked but why so many at once? He said it is not so many, I counted last time and it was maybe 20.

Sigh. Sooo Fr. Pheiffer had been a Society priest for 17 years (I think) and his faults are just now getting him expelled? Some of the others expelled were Society priests even longer.

After conference there were tours around the seminary. It is very large, expensive looking, and during the tour the seminarian who was leading the tour explained there would be a vineyard, brewery, book restoration room, three stories to the building, recreation areas, pool table/fooseball (maybe he was joking),cattle, platform built for the ordinations tent, camping area for when people visit for ordinations with a shower and restroom building. I do NOT see where they are getting the money. The Society has families with large numbers of children and only a small percent are wealthy...how are they getting so much money for all of these plans? Maybe it would be better to offer young men who want to be priests a free ride for their studies and increase vocations that way with limited amenities and suffering without a fancy brewery in their kitchen.

I did record both the sermon and the conference, trying to fix the audio right now (we got front row seats, but it was in open area so sound has a lot of "air" noise).
If anyone else from here attended and had a different opinion of the sermon/conference or has anything to add please do so. God bless!

holysoulsacademy · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2014, 12:13:43 PM »

Thank you dreamtomorrow! Looking forward to that post!

1st Mansion Tenant · « **Reply #2 on:** April 27, 2014, 02:59:23 PM »

Quote from: holysoulsacademy

Thank you dreamtomorrow! Looking forward to that post!

Why would anybody down-thumb you for saying you were looking forward to reading the post? Somebody has issues...

hugeman · « **Reply #3 on:** April 27, 2014, 04:11:31 PM »

Nice job, dreamtomorrow! Thank you. We'll wait for the audio! God Bless You.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** April 27, 2014, 05:02:00 PM »

Thank you for your report. It sounds objective and impartial.

We need more objective "reporters" like you, with boots on the ground. Posts like this is exactly why CathInfo exists -- to inform the THOUSANDS of other Catholics who couldn't make it to such an event (myself included).

The whole experience, as you describe it, is exactly what I would have expected.

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #5 on:** April 27, 2014, 10:37:06 PM »

Quote from: dreamtomorrow (Apr 27, 2014, 12:34 pm)

This weekend I attended a random conference B. Fellay was having at the new seminary in Dillwyn VA.

I lived for a while in Northern Virginia, so being provided with a specific place-name by the original poster, I couldn't resist looking up the locale (thus learning that my original impressions were mistaken).

Quote from: dreamtomorrow (Apr 27, 2014, continued)

After conference there were tours around the seminary. It is very large, expensive looking, and during the tour the seminarian who was leading the tour explained there would be a vineyard, brewery, book restoration room, three stories to the building, recreation areas, pool table/fooseball [...],cattle, platform built for the ordinations tent, camping area for when people visit for ordinations with a shower and restroom building. I do NOT see where they are getting the money. The Society has families with large numbers of children and only a small percent are wealthy ... how are they getting so much money for all of these plans? Maybe it would be better to offer young men who want to be priests a free ride for their studies and increase vocations that way with limited amenities and suffering without a fancy brewery in their kitchen.

Perhaps there's a business plan that shows that a "seminary brewery" and "seminary vintages" would carry enough snob appeal to generate modest profits, especially among affluent tourists driving a few hours 

from the Washington Metro Area? Thomas Jefferson's Monticello, plus the Univ. of Virginia, whose earliest buildings he designed, is in a bordering county; and so--I think--is James Madison's estate.

The brewery and vineyard might be even more marketable if they could arrange for Commonwealth-of-Virginia law to allow them to to call themselves an "abbey", and label its ales, beer, and wine accordingly. Either way, a fundamental selling point would be promoting its products as exemplifying the "traditional" brewers' or vintners' art.

If profits were not simply handed over to Menzingen, they might assist in supporting the seminary.

Note *: To Dillwyn (Buckingham Co.): perhaps via U.S. 15, S. of the James River, but N. of the Appomattox River, 1_1/2 mi. (more or less) short of U.S. 60. The town is due W. of Richmond, not quite due S. of Charlottesville (Albemarle Co.).

AJNC · « **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2014, 01:08:47 AM »

Bishop Fellay while mentioning the paucity of priests/vocations in Europe,did not give figures for church attendance. Is it not true that only about 5% of baptized Catholics in Europe go to church? Does this minimal figure of attendees need a full complement of priests or is it not a question of reallocating priestly resources.
BF could be talking about this priestly shortage with a view to alleviating it with his band of 500 priests. His 500 is a drop in the ocean. Pope Bergoglio could end the shortage overnight by allowing married and women clergy.

wallflower · « **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2014, 08:24:15 AM »

I am a little torn on this issue. Problems with the direction of the SSPX aside, when it comes to the size and grandeur of the new seminary I try to remind myself of the Middle Ages when they built magnificent cathedrals yet many lived in poverty themselves. The Protestants like to point the finger at how "selfish and inhumanitarian" that is yet the Catholic perspective is to give glory to God first and the rest will follow. Like Abel we offer Him our best first and we worry not for ourselves. Is God so limited that now because there's a large seminary, He cannot provide for the rest of us? There's a bit of a Communist or perhaps simply envious streak in us that wants that wealth to be more "evenly" distributed. Think of what they could do if they just put that money towards the poor people! etc... I want to fight that tendency and won't give in to criticizing the new building for that reason.

My trouble is that I hope that Catholic perspective is what the leaders of the SSPX have in mind in building this seminary and that it isn't tinged by a search for earthly praise and glory. The opulence of the seminary doesn't matter to me so much as the motivation behind it. Of course this is something I cannot truly know from where I am so it doesn't behoove me to worry. I still do a little bit.

ultrarigorist · « **Reply #8 on:** April 28, 2014, 08:56:05 AM »

It's a gilded cage for true vocations.
The concept is not without precedent in at least 1 S.P. community.

Matthew · « **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2014, 10:06:30 AM »

Quote from: wallflower

I am a little torn on this issue. Problems with the direction of the SSPX aside, when it comes to the size and grandeur of the new seminary I try to remind myself of the Middle Ages when they built magnificent cathedrals yet many lived in poverty themselves. The Protestants like to point the finger at how "selfish and inhumanitarian" that is yet the Catholic perspective is to give glory to God first and the rest will follow. Like Abel we offer Him our best first and we worry not for ourselves. Is God so limited that now because there's a large seminary, He cannot provide for the rest of us? There's a bit of a Communist or perhaps simply envious streak in us that wants that wealth to be more "evenly" distributed. Think of what they could do if they just put that money towards the poor people! etc... I want to fight that tendency and won't give in to criticizing the new building for that reason.

My trouble is that I hope that Catholic perspective is what the leaders of the SSPX have in mind in building this seminary and that it isn't tinged by a search for earthly praise and glory. The opulence of the seminary doesn't matter to me so much as the motivation behind it. Of course this is something I cannot truly know from where I am so it doesn't behoove me to worry. I still do a little bit.

I won't be giving in to that communist-inspired, iconoclastic knee-jerk either.

However, I think it's valid to call them "monument-builders". They shouldn't be building monuments in a time of crisis like this, when so many Trad Catholics don't even have a place to attend Mass. That money could be used to pay for more SSPX priest plane tickets, and the building of hundreds of smaller, more basic chapels.

Here is the main difference: We're in a crisis. Before the Crisis in the Church, the Catholic Church provided for *all* its members. Sure, some large cities had nice cathedrals because they had more resources and people, but that didn't stop poor, small groups of Catholics from having access to the Mass.

Today, there is no welfare or safety net for spiritually-disadvantaged Traditional Catholics who happen to live in the wrong places. If the SSPX doesn't build a chapel and send a priest, those people are simply out of luck.

I guess you might say poverty is one thing, but spiritual desolation is another thing altogether. Each one of us needs the graces of the Mass and the priesthood -- but we don't need material splendor.

The whole point of Tradition is to pull back from what is doubtful (the N.O.) and stick to what is certain (Traditional doctrine, Liturgy, books, catechisms, hymns, etc.).

Why doesn't the SSPX write new traditional-sounding hymns?

We can't move on and create new culture and expressions of culture. We're in a CRISIS -- which necessitates a LIFEBOAT. Nothing more. It's not our job to "move on" from Rome. That would be wrong.

By constructing large Gothic churches, monumental seminaries, and other things along these lines, we give the impression that the Crisis is over. But it's not over. The fight continues. That's the problem with the Neo-SSPX today; they act as if we can drop our guard.

It's easier to remember we're in a Crisis when you're hearing Mass in a hotel room or garage/workshop. Or at least in a humble building of some sort -- not a $5M building that looks exactly like a pre-Vatican2 church.

wallflower · « **Reply #10 on:** April 28, 2014, 03:03:36 PM »

Thank you Matthew! That's the link I was missing, the difference between material and spiritual poverty. That makes sense to me.

They would likely argue that in providing a seminary large enough to house so many seminarians, they ARE providing for spiritual needs in the long run. But it seems debatable. It seems as though there are many extras that could wait until a more stable time.

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #11 on:** April 28, 2014, 04:30:09 PM »

Quote from: Matthew (April 28, 2014, 11:06 am)

They shouldn't be building monuments in a time of crisis like this, when so many Trad Catholics don't even have a place to attend Mass. That money could be used to pay for more SSPX priest plane tickets, and the building of hundreds of smaller, more basic chapels. Here is the main difference: We're in a crisis. [....] It's easier to remember we're in a Crisis when you're hearing Mass in a hotel room or garage/workshop. Or at least in a humble building of some sort--not a $5M [$5,000,000] building that looks exactly like a pre-Vatican2 church.

I wanted to submit a reply in this topic, about what 1 traditional group of lay Catholics 

accomplished with only 1/10 of $5,000,000 in Florida, but because the focus would be on a nonSSPX chapel, I decided it might be better to create a new topic instead: Traditional churches on the cheap: Saving money on Catholic venues ~~ for Mass ~~.

Maybe my new topic would've been more useful to CathInfo if it revitalized a now-neglected "SSPX Resistance" topic, but it's too late to change where I posted it. I was surprised to discover that even while CathInfo's editing deadline seemed to allow for it, there was no way for me to edit my description[/i] of my new topic (as shown via strike-thro & italics above).

Note *: Calling the laity of that chapel a "congregation" just looks too Protestant or secular to my cradle-Catholic eyes, but I suppose it's possible that I'm overly scrupulous about religious terminology.

Matto · « **Reply #12 on:** April 28, 2014, 04:32:24 PM »

I think it would have been smarter to give the money to different SSPX chapels around the world than to spend so much money on one site. I know my chapel could use some extra spending money.

claudel · « **Reply #13 on:** April 28, 2014, 05:55:05 PM »

Quote from: AlligatorDicax

Calling the laity of that chapel a "congregation" just looks too Protestant or secular to my cradle-Catholic eyes, but I suppose it's possible that I'm overly scrupulous about religious terminology.

As a fellow cradle Catholic, may I suggest that the possibility you hint at might be well grounded. Congregation need not be seen as a sectarian term, not in American English at any rate. It's quite as neutral as flock (the Latin root of congregation is "grex," a flock) and, alas, infinitely more sensible nowadays than parishioner, unless one is prepared to stretch the very notion of parish to what seems to me the breaking point.

As for secularness, I wish you were right. I'd do metaphorical handstands of delight were I to see the mass media refer to Obama voters and the Jєωιѕн and ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ lobbies as congregations. Heaven knows they all baa on cue!

Ekim · « **Reply #14 on:** April 28, 2014, 07:42:30 PM »

Immaculate Conception mission in Virginia Beach has been meeting in a hotelfor over q15 years now, even after they gave the SSPX 4acres of land with the promise that someday they would have a chapel. At the time of purchase the land was valued at approximately $275K. This value has increased significantly since then, but still no Chapel. The Mission has since lost many families to the new and beautiful St. Benedict's operated by the Fraternity of St. Peter.

These poor folks deserve a Chapel of their own, or at least a full refund of their money.