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Offline Ekim

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Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2014, 07:48:47 PM »
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  • Also interesting to note, had the SSPX built the Chapel back in 1999, St. Benedict's would probably had fizzled out. At the time, the SSPX was far better attended.


    Offline LKCTexas

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #16 on: April 28, 2014, 08:39:23 PM »
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  • I certainly may be wrong - the timing of the new seminary seems to me a similar pattern when FSSP received its new Denton, Nebraska seminary.  It was shortly after the former SSPX priest Fr. Bisig (then the superior of FSSP) was forced out around 2000 and replaced with one of Rome's liking.  The new seminary project arrived seemingly with no strings attached about that time.  I remember it was a time I was moving away from N.O. and beginning to attend the Indult Mass and was excited to see FSSP with the new Nebraska seminary, later learning more about the history of FSSP and the truth through Archbishop Lefebvre's leadership and traditional spirituality.  What the Society seems to have received is a similar packaged deal, including resources to build the Virginia seminary. Maybe others with more recollection what happened to FSSP and the arrival of the Nebraska seminary can shed more on this.  Is there a made in Germany pattern or parallel here?

    Fr. Bisig - disagreed with ABL on method of preserving Tradition by keeping distance from Rome and through the consecration of bishops.
    Fr. Pfluger - disagrees with ABL on the method of preserving Tradition by keeping distance from Rome, facilitating the dismissal of the one bishop defending ABL's position, and seeking to be regularized with Rome.
    The then Cardinal Ratzinger - provided the means for FSSP to locate a new seminary in Germany.

    Sources:
    http://www.fssp.org/en/presentation.htm

    http://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2013/07/19/congratulations-to-the-fssp/

    http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/priestly-fraternity-of-st.-peter-turns-25

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Guadalupe_Seminary

    Our Lady of Victory, pray for us!
    In the end My Immaculate Heart will Triumph!
    Patrick Coon
    Georgetown, Tx


    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #17 on: April 29, 2014, 12:46:58 AM »
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  • Quote from: LKCTexas


    Fr. Bisig - disagreed with ABL on method of preserving Tradition by keeping distance from Rome and through the consecration of bishops.
    Fr. Pfluger - disagrees with ABL on the method of preserving Tradition by keeping distance from Rome, facilitating the dismissal of the one bishop defending ABL's position, and seeking to be regularized with Rome.
    The then Cardinal Ratzinger - provided the means for FSSP to locate a new seminary in Germany.

    Our Lady of Victory, pray for us!
    In the end My Immaculate Heart will Triumph!
    Patrick Coon
    Georgetown, Tx



    Quote from: LKCTexas
    Sources:
    http://www.fssp.org/en/presentation.htm


    What are we? The Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter
    Origin of the Fraternity

    The Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter is a Clerical Society of Apostolic Life of Pontifical right, that is, a community of Roman Catholic priests who do not take religious vows, but who work together for a common mission in the world.  The mission of the Fraternity is two-fold:  first, the formation and sanctification of priests in the cadre of the traditional liturgy of the Roman rite, and secondly, the pastoral deployment of the priests in the service of the Church.

    The Fraternity was founded on July 18, 1988 at the Abbey of Hauterive (Switzerland) by a dozen priests and a score of seminarians.  Shortly after the Fraternity’s foundation and following upon a request by Cardinal Ratzinger, Bishop Joseph Stimpfle of Augsburg, Germany granted the Fraternity a home in Wigratzbad, a Marian shrine in Bavaria that now lodges the Fraternity’s European seminary. In the same month of October there arrived a handful of priests and some thirty seminarians ready to start "from scratch".  There are currently almost 200 priests and 110 seminarians in the Fraternity.
    Priestly Formation in the Fraternity

    The Fraternity of St. Peter currently operates two international houses of formation: the original formation house in Wigratzbad, Germany (diocese of Augsburg), and the other in Denton, Nebraska, U.S.A. (diocese of Lincoln).  The Fraternity has organized its seminary training in accordance with the Church’s norms on priestly formation, including a year of more intense spiritual preparation before entering the cycles of philosophy and theology.  By fostering a balanced life of prayer, study, community life, and personal discipline, care is taken to foster human maturity and to acquire the spirit of the Gospel, in close union with Christ.  The spiritual life in the houses is centered on the sacrifice of the Mass.  Special attention is paid to the faithful observance of the "liturgical and spiritual traditions" according to the dispositions of the Motu proprio Ecclesia Dei adflicta of July 2, 1988, which is at the origin of the Fraternity’s foundation (Constitutions, Art. 8).
    Pastoral Mission of Fraternity Priests

    Once the formation progamme has been completed, the Fraternity’s priests serve the faithful – under the direction of their bishop and within the terms of the Fraternity’s own constitutions – in its various apostolates in France, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Italy, the USA, Australia, Canada, Great Britain and Nigeria.  In the world, the priests of the Fraternity live in small communities and work to spread the Gospel by means of preaching, catechesis, youth education (scout troops, schools), and organizing pilgrimages and retreats, etc.  With the full approval of the Holy See and the permission of local bishops, the priests provide a full sacramental life for the faithful, administered according to the liturgical books of 1962.

    Quote from: LKCTexas
    http://veneremurcernui.wordpress.com/2013/07/19/congratulations-to-the-fssp/


    Congratulations to the FSSP! July 19, 2013
    Posted by tantamergo

    Today is the 25th anniversary of the formal founding of the Priestly Fraternity of St Peter-  Fraternetie Sacerdotalis Sancte Petri! Yay!

    On June 30, 1988, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, the leader of the Society of St. Pius X, and his associate, Bishop Antonio de Castro Meyer, consecrated four bishops in defiance of the wishes of Pope John Paul II.

    While Archbishop Lefebvre’s desire to preserve the traditional Latin Mass amidst the onslaught of liturgical abuses was shared by Father Josef Bisig, an SSPX priest at the time, there was sharp disagreement on the method of preservation. Father Bisig did not think acting against a papal command was the right way to bring this about.

    Two days after the illicit consecrations, Father Bisig, a native of Switzerland, along with 11 other priests and about 20 seminarians, announced their departure from the SSPX. They wanted to continue their adherence to the traditional Latin liturgy, but not outside the realm of obedience to the Holy Father.

    In their Declaration of Intention by the Founders, dated July 2, 1988, the former members of the SSPX stated their “profound regret over the illicit consecration of bishops” and also made clear their goal: to live as a religious society in the Catholic Church and to place themselves at its service, under the authority of the pope.

    This goal was made possible on July 18, 1988, when the former SSPX members founded the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP) with the strong support of the then-president of the pontifical commission Ecclesia Dei, Cardinal Paul Mayer.

    Exactly three months later, on Oct. 18, 1988, the same commission, with the explicit approval of Blessed Pope John Paul II, established the FSSP as a society of apostolic life. The group’s name was chosen to express filial devotion to the successor of Peter, the rock on whom the Church is built.

    Father Bisig was the FSSP’s first superior general, a position he held until 2000.  [Until he was forced out by the Vatican.  FSSP has not had an entirely smooth 25 year history.  It's sort of a long story.  There was also an expectation that the FSSP would be headed by a bishop promoted from their ranks; that also, has not occurred.]   During his tenure, he continually made clear the importance of remaining true to liturgical traditions, while at the same time being obedient to ecclesiastical authority. [I think it safe to say that Fr. Bissig has suffered for that obedience. God bless him.]

    “The Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter serves the faithful by retaining Latin liturgical traditions, the Church’s source of continuity. This is done, not out of nostalgia or a reactionary disposition, but out of humility,” Father Bisig told the Register. “At the same time, we are called to live joyfully under the paternal authority of the successor of St. Peter. This is done out of humility as well.”

    Quote from: LKCTexas
    http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/priestly-fraternity-of-st.-peter-turns-25


    Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter Turns 25
    Group Celebrates Fidelity to Liturgical Traditions and the Pope

    by Trent Beattie, Register Correspondent
    Wednesday, Oct 02, 2013 3:39 PM

    On June 30, 1988, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, the leader of the Society of St. Pius X, and his associate, Bishop Antonio de Castro Meyer, consecrated four bishops in defiance of the wishes of Pope John Paul II.

    While Archbishop Lefebvre’s desire to preserve the traditional Latin Mass amidst the onslaught of liturgical abuses was shared by Father Josef Bisig, an SSPX priest at the time, there was sharp disagreement on the method of preservation. Father Bisig did not think acting against a papal command was the right way to bring this about.

    Two days after the illicit consecrations, Father Bisig, a native of Switzerland, along with 11 other priests and about 20 seminarians, announced their departure from the SSPX. They wanted to continue their adherence to celebrating the Mass in Latin, but not outside the realm of obedience to the Holy Father.

    In their "Declaration of Intention by the Founders," dated July 2, 1988, the former members of the SSPX stated their "profound regret over the illicit consecration of bishops" and also made clear their goal: to live as a religious society in the Catholic Church and to place themselves at its service, under the authority of the Pope.

    This goal was made possible on July 18, 1988, when the former SSPX members founded the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP), with the strong support of the then-president of the pontifical commission Ecclesia Dei, Cardinal Paul Mayer.

    Exactly three months later, on Oct. 18, 1988, the same commission, with the explicit approval of Blessed Pope John Paul II, established the FSSP as a society of apostolic life. The group’s name was chosen to express filial devotion to the successor of Peter, the rock on whom the Church is built.

    Father Bisig was the FSSP’s first superior general, a position he held until 2000. During his tenure, he continually made clear the importance of remaining true to liturgical traditions, while at the same time being obedient to ecclesiastical authority.

    "The Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter serves the faithful by retaining Latin liturgical traditions, the Church’s source of continuity. This is done, not out of nostalgia or a reactionary disposition, but out of humility," Father Bisig told the Register. "At the same time, we are called to live joyfully under the paternal authority of the successor of St. Peter. This is done out of humility as well."

    Remaining Faithful

    The FSSP’s current superior general, Father John Berg, a Minnesota native, is thankful to God for how the fraternity has developed over the past quarter century. Despite some growing pains, Father Berg believes the fraternity has remained faithful to its founding principles while finding the best concrete ways to serve the Church.

    "We’ve gone from a handful of priests and seminarians to 240 priests and 140 seminarians worldwide," Father Berg noted. "The numbers are good, so you have to be thankful for them. More important than numbers, though, is the retention of our original identity while serving the lay faithful on a day-to-day basis."

    The chief pastoral work of the FSSP is offering the sacraments in the traditional form in parishes across Europe and North America. From Vancouver, B.C., to Sarasota, Fla., the fraternity has more than 50 locations where Masses are offered. In order to do this, priests are trained at Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Denton, Neb., the heart of FSSP’s North American territory.

    In addition to offering the traditional Latin Mass themselves, FSSP priests also train their diocesan counterparts to do the same. While the celebration of the Mass in Latin is the hallmark of the fraternity, its priests also conduct retreats, lead pilgrimages and travel on mission trips to Asia, Africa and South America.

    Father Berg believes the biggest challenge facing the FSSP today is the formation of excellent priests. "I suppose each generation thinks that this is an even greater challenge than it was for the one before it, but we need to form men who want to live a life of self-sacrifice," he said. "This is done in imitation of Christ, in whose priesthood they share."

    Family Fraternity

    The FSSP founders set out to form priests who would hold the sacrifice of the Mass at the center of their lives, which would make each priest’s life an extension of the life of Christ.

    It could be said, then, that Arizona native Sean Gordon has a very "extended family." He enjoys the unique perspective that comes from having three brothers who are FSSP priests. Father James Gordon and Father Terrence Gordon are older than Sean, 40, while Father Dennis Gordon is younger.

    "Having three brothers in the priesthood can be attributed mainly to the influence of our father," Sean Gordon said. "After attending Mass every Sunday, he would teach us a lesson from the Baltimore Catechism. Then he would quiz us to make sure we were retaining the lessons. The simplicity of the lessons was very helpful for us. There was no room for confusion about what the Church taught."

    The Gordon children also benefited from their father’s prayer life. They saw him kneeling down to pray, not only at night, but at different times throughout the day. That sent a very clear message about the importance of prayer: It’s not something to reserve for special occasions, but a lifeline that enables us to receive God’s grace and do his will.

    Sound doctrine and a strong prayer life were accompanied by praise for the traditional Latin liturgy in the Gordon home. Sean Gordon explained, "Even though we didn’t have access to the traditional Latin Mass growing up, our father would always speak highly of it. He thought its beauty and sacredness were very appealing and salutary, and we were eventually able to witness what he was talking about firsthand."

    All three of Gordon’s brothers became FSSP priests after serving in the military, and he considered a priestly or religious vocation too. Although a call to married life instead became apparent, he would encourage any Catholic young man discerning a possible priestly vocation to do so with the FSSP.

    "I found the fraternity to have the most straightforward program for priestly formation of any of the groups I considered. Their goals were very clear and thoroughly Catholic, reminding me of the Catholic principles taught to me in my own upbringing. I would absolutely recommend that any young man discerning a possible call to priesthood look into the FSSP."

    ‘Act of Hope’

    Father Bisig says the FSSP will remain on the same path of fidelity and unity to Rome that its members chose to follow a quarter century ago.

    "The fraternity was founded on an act of hope in a time of confusion and disunity," he said. "Now, 25 years later, with continued confidence, we place our needs in the hands of the Blessed Virgin Mary, who, with St. Peter, has guided and protected us this far."

    Trent Beattie writes from Seattle.

    Quote from: LKCTexas
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Guadalupe_Seminary


    Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary is the second seminary of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, a Society of Apostolic Life in the Catholic Church.

    The seminary was canonically established in 1988 by Pope John Paul II in accordance with his letter Ecclesia Dei adflicta and opened in 2000. Located in Denton, Nebraska, near Lincoln, it was founded primarily to serve English-speaking seminarians for the Fraternity from North America and to provide traditionalist Catholic education. Nonetheless, the customal of the seminary includes a provision for students who are not members of the Fraternity but are studying for the priesthood in other ecclesiastical organizations, and since 2008 the seminary has served as the location of philosophical and theological education for clerical members of the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer.

    Seminarians are future Catholic priests who receive training in the ancient Tridentine liturgy as it existed in 1962, prior to and during the Second Vatican Council; Gregorian chant is also an integral part of the education. The seminary offers at least one formal vocational retreat annually for those interested in considering priesthood. Admission is limited to males, in accordance with the Catholic understanding of the priesthood.

    The first phase of the seminary complex was designed by Thomas Gordon Smith Architects in a Romanesque style and completed in 2000. Seminarians live in the dormitory wing.

    The current rector is Fr. Josef Bisig, F.S.S.P.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #18 on: April 29, 2014, 08:42:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ekim
    Immaculate Conception mission in Virginia Beach has been meeting in a hotelfor over q15 years now, even after they gave the SSPX 4acres of land with the promise that someday they would have a chapel.  At the time of purchase the land was valued at approximately $275K.  This value has increased significantly since then, but still no Chapel.  The Mission has since lost many families to the new and beautiful St. Benedict's operated by the Fraternity of St. Peter.

    These poor folks deserve a Chapel of their own, or at least a full refund of their money.


    I might be mistaken, but I had been under the impression that the Count and only a few very kind and generous families had been bankrolling OLoF.  
     
     I do feel certain that the money was given purely for the love of Christ. I seriously doubt that any of the benefactors would ask for a refund of their money, but I could be wrong.

     They ran into some glitches when the independent priest died and left the chapel in financial disarray. No funds for a Requiem, $!0,000 to have his body returned to the family, etc. etc.  (a very holy man, but apparently had not made plans nor repairs) Like many, they had to ask the SSPX for help and Bp. Williamson did Father's Requiem.  

    I think the situation is complicated.  OLoF was one of the first independent chapels, so many of the dear founding souls have passed away, there have been boards of directors and numerous changes, mistakes in management--trusting the wrong people sometimes. Perhaps not enough young people with money to keep  things afloat.  This is a sign of the times, that such a holy chapel with such good Catholics is falling on hard times.  I pray the good Catholics in Virginia Beach get the chapel they deserve!

    EDIT:  Dera Ekim, I re-read your post and see that you are talking about Va Beach, not OLoF--sorry to go off on a tangent!

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #19 on: April 29, 2014, 08:49:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: AlligatorDicax

    I lived for a while in Northern Virginia, so being provided with a specific place-name by the original poster, I couldn't resist looking up the locale (thus learning that my original impressions were mistaken).


    .


    At one point, people were claiming the new seminary would be adjacent to the DC "corridors of power".  It's out in the middle of nowhere, really.  


    Offline ultrarigorist

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #20 on: April 29, 2014, 09:10:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: holysoulsacademy
    {wordy glossy about FSSP}


    Something that has become apparent about FSSP is that while their newest apostolates look just like SSPX and Independent (as least SSPX from a few years ago), their oldest chapels/apostolates are beginning to show the weaknesses in their "position". Immodesty was creeping in, mantillas were becoming more the exception than norm, and most of their kids are being lost to the faith.
    I suppose it's like anything else. They receive a moral or spiritual inheritance (as laity from SSPX), and then once that is spent, what follows are solely fruits of their chaplain's labors.
    So maybe the acid test is one generation for the fruits to be really manifest, because within the first generation, the influence of parents is predominately visible.

    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #21 on: April 29, 2014, 10:45:08 AM »
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  • The seminary is to be a shiny bit of bling on a silver platter for +F to present to the Pope when he cinches the Deal- It will fold nicely into Rome's plans to  suck(er) in the SSPX with the promise of a Personal Prelature after a time of Formal "Tolerance". The "Tolerance" gambit is to lull the old-timers who still remember ABL, and give time for a slow immersion in the cooking pot so too many don't come out of their comas and start squawking . Those who even noticed need time to forget the resistance priest's warnings and how close +F came to signing. The "Tolerance' doesn't just mean Rome tolerating the SSPX and allowing them more leeway--- It also buys time to teach the SSPX faithful (and priests) to be more tolerant of Vatican II and NO novelties. Once the line is blurry enough between the two, the merger will seem nearly seamless. The seminary built by bequests and widows-mites of the SSPX faithful will be handed over to an unconverted Rome along with the souls in the pews worldwide. The end.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #22 on: April 29, 2014, 10:56:05 AM »
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  • .

    I hope I did not properly understand this sentence:

    Post
    Quote from: Matthew
    Why doesn't the SSPX write new traditional-sounding hymns?


    Why would anyone in the Church, including but not limited to the Society of St. Pius X, need to write "new" hymns!?

    This question, quoted above, ignores these four facts:

    1)  The literature and archives of the Catholic repertoire of hymns is enormous.  

    2)  The hymnals that SSPX chapels use in their pews (a standard hymnal in the pew was compiled under the direction and approval of +W) is only vaguely representative of the variety and size of that repertoire.

    3)  The vast majority of Catholic hymns (outside of Gregorian Chant) are not generally, if ever, sung in SSPX chapels.

    4)  While it is not impossible to compose traditional-sounding hymns that are actually "new," it is a lot more difficult than it might seem, and there is an abiding inclination to modernize, that most pressingly influences the art of composition, whereas a primary reliance on the already vast storehouse of existing hyms is a much more prudent approach than trying to yet increase this already-huge edifice of existing music.


       Therefore,
         Based on these four facts, in order to increase the variety and horizons of musical selections in any SSPX chapel, what is needed is not "new" hymns "written" (composed is the proper term) but already-existing hymns introduced gradually since it takes a long time to learn familiarity with good literature.  



    If you'd like an example of "new" compositions performed in the context of liturgical proceedings, look no further than this recent 'canonization' Mass in Rome this past Quasimodo Sunday.  (Yes, they read the Introit that you see in your TLM missal, which begins with "Quasi modo geniti infantes..." and they read it in Latin!)


    .

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.


    Offline Matthew

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #23 on: April 29, 2014, 11:34:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: Elizabeth
    Quote from: AlligatorDicax

    I lived for a while in Northern Virginia, so being provided with a specific place-name by the original poster, I couldn't resist looking up the locale (thus learning that my original impressions were mistaken).


    .


    At one point, people were claiming the new seminary would be adjacent to the DC "corridors of power".  It's out in the middle of nowhere, really.  


    A quick exercise:

    1. Take a map of the U.S.A.
    2. Put in 2 push pins: 1 for Winona, MN (the old seminary location) and one for the new seminary location.
    3. Put in a push pin for Washington DC.
    4. Note how much closer the Seminary is moving to where stuff "happens" over on the East Coast. Much more wealth and population there. Within driving distance rather than 1000 miles away, etc.

    Before, the seminary was in a more "survivalist friendly" location. Away from large population centers, cozily tucked into the middle of "flyover country".

    In 2001 or 2002, Bishop Williamson was getting a natural gas tank and generator installed. The seminary already had quite the farm setup -- garden, orchard, pigs, chickens, cows, and much of our food came from there. 100% of our fruit preserves (for daily breakfast) was produced from the land and the volunteer work of the canning ladies. He infused reality into daily life, trying to re-form the minds of the seminarians who lived there. It worked on me; I don't know about the others. Even small things like having the chef bake bread rather than buying the ridiculous stuff that passes for bread at the store. Everything was "real". Very down to earth and connected to reality. The seminarians did all the chores, the maintenance work, and even chopped wood which provided 1/2 of our heat every winter. And let's not forget +W's famous guideline for when the heat came on every winter -- let's just say he made us wait a bit.

    He was trying to make real men out of us. And even though the minimum age was 18, there were plenty of boys entering the seminary :)

    And I believe he succeeded with many of us. Remember the saying "nemo dat quod non habet" (no one gives what he doesn't have)? So I'm not surprised that +W was able to help teach us how to be men. He's a man himself.

    As many people know, he also expects a chastisement in the near future. He also had a speaker come in and give a talk to the seminarians about biological, chemical, and nuclear warfare survival. He is very friendly to the survivalist movement. He would never have wanted to move the seminary anywhere near the East Coast (of course, it was never up to him).
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com

    Offline Ekim

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #24 on: April 29, 2014, 12:36:19 PM »
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  • Hi Elizabeth, I was speaking of Immaculate Conception Mission in Virginia Beach.  Not Our Lady of Fatima in Richmond, VA.

    The point I was trying to make was that with all of the countless dollars being spent on the Taj Ma Hal of Traditional Seminaries, some of that money may have been better used to build a Chapel for the families who sacrificed so much over the years to preserve the Mass and support the Society.  These were normal hard working people, no high dollar donations from lucrative families.

    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #25 on: April 29, 2014, 02:01:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew

    And I believe he succeeded with many of us. Remember the saying "nemo dat quod non habet" (no one gives what he doesn't have)? So I'm not surprised that +W was able to help teach us how to be men. He's a man himself.



    That's the crux of the matter right there!


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #26 on: April 29, 2014, 03:17:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ekim
    Hi Elizabeth, I was speaking of Immaculate Conception Mission in Virginia Beach.  Not Our Lady of Fatima in Richmond, VA.

    The point I was trying to make was that with all of the countless dollars being spent on the Taj Ma Hal of Traditional Seminaries, some of that money may have been better used to build a Chapel for the families who sacrificed so much over the years to preserve the Mass and support the Society.  These were normal hard working people, no high dollar donations from lucrative families.


    I have to agree with you.  The crisis has spawned such a variety of problems over the last 45 years.  A lot of good people have been burned, one way or another.  

    Offline Thurifer7

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #27 on: April 29, 2014, 04:00:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: ultrarigorist
    Quote from: holysoulsacademy
    {wordy glossy about FSSP}


    Something that has become apparent about FSSP is that while their newest apostolates look just like SSPX and Independent (as least SSPX from a few years ago), their oldest chapels/apostolates are beginning to show the weaknesses in their "position". Immodesty was creeping in, mantillas were becoming more the exception than norm, and most of their kids are being lost to the faith.
    I suppose it's like anything else. They receive a moral or spiritual inheritance (as laity from SSPX), and then once that is spent, what follows are solely fruits of their chaplain's labors.
    So maybe the acid test is one generation for the fruits to be really manifest, because within the first generation, the influence of parents is predominately visible.


    That sounds like an Indult situation.


    Offline Ekim

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #28 on: April 30, 2014, 09:34:03 AM »
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  • The SSPX was originally in Chesapeake at St. Benedicts Chapel.  This was part of Fr. Williamsons Mass circuit at one time.  After JPII allowed the indult, some members voted to turn the Chapel over to the Bishop Sullivan of the Richmond Dioceses.  St. Benedicts was eventually given to the Fraternity.  They tore down the dated old Chapel and built a very nice church.

    Those faithful who were still dedicated to the mission of ABL relocated to Virginia Beach and renamed themselves Immaculate Conception Mission.  They held fund raisers, worked and saved to buy land for construction of a church of their own.  Due to a lack of trust by the Society because of the past betrayal, the folks in Va Beach were told that they had to give the land to the SSPX to be sure of their dedication to the SSPX.   After they turned over the land in full ($275K in 1998) thinking the SSPX would then help them build a church, they were then told they had to now raise 50% of the cost of a Chapel and only then would the SSPX help.  Fifteen to twenty years later, the SSPX still owns their land, dangles carrots, but provides no help in building a chapel.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Review of B. Fellays conference in VA
    « Reply #29 on: April 30, 2014, 10:06:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ekim
    The SSPX was originally in Chesapeake at St. Benedict's Chapel.  This was part of Fr. [Richard] Williamson's Mass circuit at one time.  After JPII allowed the indult,


    That would have been 1984, with Quattuor abhinc annos of JPII:  an "indult" is special permission from authority for a subject to do something that would otherwise be unlawful.  (But traditionalists argued that it was never unlawful for any priest to celebrate the Canonized Latin Mass because Quo Primum assured their right to do so without restriction "in perpetuity.")  Fr. Williamson would be consecrated Bishop Williamson 4 years later, in 1988. Ecclesia Dei by JPII came out practically the next day, after the 1988 consecrations of the 4 SSPX bishops.  

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    some members voted to turn the Chapel over to the Bishop Sullivan of the Richmond Dioceses.  St. Benedict's was eventually given to the Fraternity.  


    What is "the Fraternity?"  The Fraternity of St. Pius X? (FSPX?)

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    They tore down the dated old Chapel and built a very nice church.


    Was Fr. Williamson involved in building the very nice church?

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    Those faithful who were still dedicated to the mission of ABL relocated to Virginia Beach and renamed themselves Immaculate Conception Mission.  


    Does this mean that those who remained in the very nice church were no longer dedicated to the mission of ABL?  Under whose leadership would that have been?  Certainly not Fr. Williamson!  Was there another priest?  Maybe from the diocese?

    Quote
    They held fund raisers, worked and saved to buy land for construction of a church of their own.  Due to a lack of trust by the Society because of the past betrayal,


    Who betrayed whom?  To what "past betrayal" do you refer?

    Quote
    the folks in Va Beach were told that they had to give the land to the SSPX to be sure of their dedication to the SSPX.   After they turned over the land in full ($275K in 1998) thinking the SSPX would then help them build a church, they were then told they had to now raise 50% of the cost of a Chapel and only then would the SSPX help.  Fifteen to twenty years later, the SSPX still owns their land, dangles carrots, but provides no help in building a chapel.



    I understand the end of the story but I don't know how you got there.  

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