Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Review - Bishop Faures consecration vs June 30 1988  (Read 1261 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 31183
  • Reputation: +27098/-494
  • Gender: Male
Review - Bishop Faures consecration vs June 30 1988
« on: December 12, 2015, 09:17:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • People often wonder (and wondered): will the SSPX ever consecrate more bishops?

    Now a year ago or so, this would have been an interesting question for speculation. It was brought up many times. But since the consecration of +Faure, and the SSPX came out loudly condemning it, it's obvious that the SSPX has committed itself to NOT repeating 1988, not even to consecrate ONE more bishop. They have committed to either A) getting approved by Rome or B) dying from lack of bishop. They have thrown all their chips on the pile.

    +Williamson consecrated +Faure for all the same reasons, and with the same fundamental circuмstances, as +Lefebvre in 1988. Everyone but the SSPX admitted this. And the SSPX was hard-pressed to show how 1988 was fine, but 2015 was not. Any reasons they gave were spurious and empty. Both consecrations were A) for the preservation of Tradition B) in a grave time of Crisis/emergency, C) without papal approval, D) without the intention to confer jurisdiction on the new bishop. No *fundamental* difference. Yes one was in Brazil and one was in Econe, but that's an accidental difference. Yes, the Econe consecration was "legendary" and had trumpets, but that's also an accidental difference.

    One argument criticizing +Faure's consecration is that the SSPX got "dibs" on the State of Necessity that existed on June 30, 1988, but which didn't exist on July 1, 1988. And so now any other Trad group since then is just plain "out of luck" and are not justified in consecrating bishops without papal mandate. So today, if anyone wants to have access to the "state of necessity" bishops they have to be on good terms with the SSPX. Nonsense! If +Lefebvre could do it in 1988, any validly ordained bishop could do so again today. Either the State of Necessity exists, or it doesn't! There is no "winner take all" first dibs on the State of Necessity. SSPX doesn't get a monopoly on the supplied jurisdiction used by +Lefebvre. That would be ridiculous.

    Some people have actually said this. And I've heard it before. It's ridiculous though.

    Another argument was that the public consecration in Brazil wasn't public enough. Apparently there has to be a quorum of Mass Media present to validate an episcopal consecration. Mind you, it was plenty public. 150+ people were there to witness it. Fundamentally, it was public just as the Consecrations June 30, 1988. There were just less trumpets playing during the recessional (none, to the best of my knowledge), and much less media hoopla. But media hype is accidental, and doesn't touch on the fundamentals of the action.

    Just ask them if they wanted to be there, and they'll start stuttering. But they like to complain anyhow. It's the excuse they cling to.
    Want to say "thank you"? 
    You can send me a gift from my Amazon wishlist!
    https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

    Paypal donations: matthew@chantcd.com


    Offline chrstnoel1

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 655
    • Reputation: +519/-21
    • Gender: Male
    Review - Bishop Faures consecration vs June 30 1988
    « Reply #1 on: December 12, 2015, 11:24:34 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • A friend in Canada emailed me stating that the DS of Canada insisted that Bishop Faure is 'still' Fr. Faure. And this was just a week ago.

    I smell sour grapes!
    "It is impious to say, 'I respect every religion.' This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven."
    Fr. Michael Muller, The Church and Her Enemies


    Offline Neil Obstat

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 18177
    • Reputation: +8276/-692
    • Gender: Male
    Review - Bishop Faures consecration vs June 30 1988
    « Reply #2 on: December 13, 2015, 03:01:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • .

    Unless there is some great change, what we see here is a turning point.  The faithful of the SSPX and all Catholics of Tradition will have to rely on bishops who are getting older, 3 of whom are resigned to not continuing the succession they received, and two others who are still open to passing down the torch of Tradition.  It's curious that the two who are likely to consecrate new bishops in the future are the oldest of the 5.

    Of these 5 bishops, it is so far +Williamson alone who has been fruitful by handing down what he has received, episcopal consecration.  

    The other three, +Fellay, +de Mallerais and +de Galarreta, are now all the more likely to turn out to be dead ends, who one day will die without having handed down what they have received.  And they will then face their eternal destiny with that blemish on their past, that in this time of worldwide crisis, they neglected to do what was necessary for the continuation of Tradition.

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Gerard from FE

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 666
    • Reputation: +246/-153
    • Gender: Male
    Review - Bishop Faures consecration vs June 30 1988
    « Reply #3 on: December 13, 2015, 03:09:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I had a back and forth on another forum with a fella who condemned Bp. Williamson's consecration of Bp. Faure because he didn't first ask for papal permission.  

    As if the asking and the denial of it, is the major factor in taking care of necessity.  


    Offline BJ5

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 101
    • Reputation: +2/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Review - Bishop Faures consecration vs June 30 1988
    « Reply #4 on: December 14, 2015, 11:09:15 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: chrstnoel1
    A friend in Canada emailed me stating that the DS of Canada insisted that Bishop Faure is 'still' Fr. Faure. And this was just a week ago.

    I smell sour grapes!


    Yet another friend of a friend who heard someone say something idiotic.

    To be clear, only an idiot would question the validity of +Faure's consecration. I have a friend who heard Bishop Tissier say the the moon is made of green cheese.

    Who cares?


    Offline BJ5

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 101
    • Reputation: +2/-6
    • Gender: Male
    Review - Bishop Faures consecration vs June 30 1988
    « Reply #5 on: December 14, 2015, 11:12:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    The other three, +Fellay, +de Mallerais and +de Galarreta, are now all the more likely to turn out to be dead ends, who one day will die without having handed down what they have received. And they will then face their eternal destiny with that blemish on their past, that in this time of worldwide crisis, they neglected to do what was necessary for the continuation of Tradition.

    .


    If they avoid regularization, they will Consecrate.  If they accept regularization, hopefully they will take succession into account.