From http://bvmrosary.wordpress.com/tag/bishop/

and http://www.saintspeterandpaulrcm.com/OPEN%20LETTERS/Bishop%20Fellay%20and%20the%20Peace%20Plan%20Proposed%20by%20the%20Mother%20of%20God.htm

There is a discussion on Ignis Ardens here: http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=11096&st=0

Bishop Fellay and the Peace Plan Proposed by the Mother of God
 
No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. Matt. 6: 24
 
Bishop Richard Williamson concluded his open reply to the March 19, 2012 open letter of Msgr. Nicola Bux by saying on March 22:
 
"And if he (Pope Benedict XVI) wishes for any support in prayer or action with which the humble SSPX could help him to consecrate Russia to Her Immaculate Heart in union with all the bishops of the world, whom the Heavenly Mother would rally, he knows that he could count first and foremost on the support of Bishop Fellay and the other three bishops of the SSPX, least among whom is,
 
Your devoted servant in Christ,
 
+Richard Williamson"
 
The Declaration of Vienna, Virginia, August 10, 2012 by the five priests concluded by saying:
 
"We must wait for Our Lady to convert the Pope and inspire him to consecrate Russia to her Immaculate Heart in union with all the bishops and we must persevere in the Charity of the Truth and the Truth of Charity, organized in a united corps of priests faithful to the position always maintained by Archbishop Lefebvre.
 
Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer, Fr. Ronald J. Ringrose, Fr. Richard Voigt, Fr. David Hewko, Fr. François Chazal"
 
Fr. David Hewko said in his sermon delivered at the first Mass offered by the newly ordained Fr. Steven Reuter in Winona on June 17, "And we wonder why the Virgin Mary begged us to pray the Rosary that the pope consecrate Russia?…. So let’s pray the Rosary, dear faithful, that the pope consecrates Russia. That’s the real solution!" Fr. Pfeiffer’s sermon delivered on August 22, the feast of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, repeats the same theme, the necessity to pray that the pope consecrates Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in union with the bishops of the world.
 
The references by Bishop Williamson and the other priests for the long awaited Consecration of Russia according to the prescripts of the Blessed Virgin Mary are assumed by most to refer merely and specifically to the message given by the Blessed Virgin Mary at Fatima to the three children. That is not the case. There is much more to the story.
 
They in fact refer to a specific request made in 2004 by the Blessed Virgin Mary to a layman of the Society of Saint Pius the X. On April 24, 2004, Good Shepherd Sunday, the Blessed and Ever Virgin Mary, Mother of God, appeared to this layman and gave a message to be delivered to Bishop Bernard Fellay, the Superior General of the SSPX. She asked Bishop Fellay to lead the faithful in a Rosary Crusade for the intention of obtaining the grace for Pope Benedict XVI to Consecrate Russia, in union with the bishops of the world, to Her Immaculate Heart. She promised that if Bishop Fellay will grant Her this request, She will obtain the Consecration of Russia.

From April 2004 to January 2006 an inquiry was conducted regarding the claims of the visionary by the priest of their local SSPX chapel. His investigation found the claims credible and he gave his permission for the visionary to contact Bishop Fellay in January 2006.
 
In late July of 2006 Bishop Fellay announced his plan for a "Crusade of the Rosary" to "obtain from Heaven for Pope Benedict XVI the strength required to completely free up the Mass of all time, called the Tridentine Mass." It was only after this First Rosary Crusade was launched that Bishop Fellay came to understand that the intention of the Rosary Crusade for the Consecration of Russia was a direct request from the Mother of God. After the launching of the first crusade Bishop Fellay conducted his own inquiry. He entered into direct communication with the visionary for specific clarifications while not coming to any immediate determination.
 
In an interview published in the Remnant Newspaper, January 15, 2007, Bishop Fellay made a specific reference to the necessity for the Consecration of Russia but this was not the intention of the First Rosary Crusade:
 
Q: It was announced on your news site that the faithful attached to the Society chapels prayed 2.5 million rosaries for Pope Benedict XVI, which you presented with a letter to him. Have you sent this spiritual bouquet and can you tell us any of the contents of the letter?
 
A: The letter has not yet been published. It has been sent, but it has not been published, so I cannot say much. But of course, with such a letter, when you offer a bouquet, you cannot say much about other recommendations than the ones you have when you give the bouquet. So it is a limited message, you might say. But the intentions of this crusade or bouquet are very clear and precise.
 
When you speak of the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, you of course have in mind Fatima. You also have in mind the big, big, big fight announced by the Blessed Virgin Mary—the fight between the devil, the forces of evil, and the Church—the fighting which we are (engaging in). We believe that particularly Fatima deals with that fight. If we mention that, we intend to include the present situation and crisis of the Church in that battle in this enormous battle. And we do see the outcome of the victory in doing what the Blessed Virgin Mary has asked for….
 
So we are giving him a bouquet, but in the bouquet, there are some flowers with some messages. And of course, more immediate, there is the Mass. But when we say the Mass, it is not just to have permission to say the Mass. We know the Tridentine Mass has a tremendous power in itself. It has a power of restoration of the Church—a power of killing the viruses that have been introduced into the Church by Vatican II.
 
All of this is present in this bouquet in our intentions. Part of this is said, and part of this is not said, but which is definitely there.
 
The "part of this (that) is not said" in the message to Pope Benedict concerned the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary in union with the bishops of the world. The only part of the message that was "very clear and precise," was the stated purpose for the "freeing of the traditional Mass."
 
The visionary was again directed to relay to Bishop Fellay the Virgin Mary’s specific request that he conduct a Rosary Crusade for the explicit purpose of obtaining the Consecration of Russia. This was relayed to him from September 2007 through April of 2008. By this time there is evidence that Bishop Fellay had concluded that the apparitions and the messages from the Blessed Virgin Mary were credible. Yet in a communication written at the end of 2007, Bishop Fellay seemed uncertain and confessed to the visionary that he "did not yet know how to express all the purposes, which would have to be brought to the faithful, and indeed your (letter) reminds me the so clear and obvious point of the Consecration of Russia! I will try to correct the intention given at the next occasion."
 
In early 2008 the Blessed Virgin said that Bishop Fellay was "not to use the Crusade for the (intention) of the lifting of the excommunications" that she described as "false." She also said that if he did, "It would be fatal for the Society" and that She would not bless such an effort but would instead use the rosaries prayed for other purposes. On March 20, 2008, Holy Saturday, the Blessed Virgin said, "Tell Bishop Fellay that he cannot move any closer to Rome than he already is, no matter how well intentioned the Holy Father may be." She then repeated, "Remember, no matter how well intentioned the Holy Father may be."
 
By June 2008 the Vatican became aware that Bishop Fellay was possibly preparing a Rosary Crusade for the Consecration of Russia because of a letter (the author of which will remain nameless) which was addressed to Pope Benedict XVI invoking his blessing upon such an endeavor. The Vatican took the letter seriously. Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos directly summoned Bishop Fellay to Rome from Hawaii where His Excellency had come to administer the sacrament of Confirmation. On June 4, Cardinal Hoyos with a group of at least four other clerics intimidated and threatened Bishop Fellay that if he should call for a Rosary Crusade for the Consecration of Russia, Rome would close the door to any future discussions and reaffirm the excommunications which they had heretofore ceased proclaiming. Bishop Fellay was then ordered to sign the "Vatican Ultimatum" accepting five conditions necessary for any further discussions.

Later that month at Winona, that most salient sentence from Bishop Fellay’s sermon was, "They just say 'shut up' … We are not going … to shut up." He then made use of the analogy of an iceberg, the tip of the iceberg being the Latin Mass while the rest of tradition was depicted as the ice mass below the water line saying, "What happens with this Motu Proprio (Summorum Pontificuм) is as if they would have taken this tip of the iceberg. When we see this, we have the impression, OK; they take the tip, so they take everything which is below. That’s not exactly what they did. They tried to take the tip and to plant it on the other iceberg, the iceberg of the new thing. And so we have two tips and they say it’s only one tip. But if you try to go and see and look under the water, what is below, you will see that they maintain that the only thing you can have below is the new thing."
 
Regarding the "Vatican Ultimatum," Bishop Fellay said in a Swiss radio interview, "Maybe it’s wrong to say so directly that I reject, that I totally reject (the ultimatum), that is not true. Rather, I see in this ultimatum a very vague and confused thing … we have relations with Rome that develop at a certain pace, which is really slow … there may now be a chillier period, but frankly, for me, it’s not finished."
 
Yet, on October 5, 2008, Bishop Fellay, in direct opposition to the warning of the Blessed Virgin Mary, elected to call for the Second Rosary Crusade for the intention of lifting the "false" excommunications to begin on November 1 until Christmas. On the same day, Our Lord Jesus Christ communicated to the visionary His anger, with His hand coming down to destroy the SSPX referring to them as "Pharisees and hypocrites, I can no longer put up with them". In the midst of Our Lord’s hand falling the Blessed Virgin Mary interceded and pleaded on their behalf for mercy saying, "Remember the weakness of men." The excommunications were removed on January 24, 2009 and Bishop Fellay directly attributed this to the intervention of the Blessed Virgin Mary. She however did not take credit for it.
 
Shortly after a personal visit from Fr. Nicholas Gruner, director of the Fatima Crusader, Bishop Fellay on April 12, 2009, against the directives of the Vatican, changed course and attempted to fulfill the request of the Blessed Virgin Mary saying:
 
It seems to us that the moment is come to launch a substantial offensive, deeply anchored in the message of Our Lady at Fatima, in which She herself promised the happy ending, for She announces that, in the end, Her Immaculate Heart will triumph. It is this triumph that we ask Her, by the means that She herself requests, the consecration of Russia to Her Immaculate Heart by the Supreme Shepherd and all the bishops of the Catholic world, and the propagation of the devotion to her Dolorous and Immaculate Heart. It is for this that we wish to offer Her, with this purpose, from now to March 25, 2010, a bouquet of 12 million Rosaries, as a crown of as many stars around Her, accompanied by an equivalent sum of daily sacrifices that we may be able to fulfill most of all in the faithful accomplishment of the duties of our state of life, and with the promise to propagate the devotion to Her Immaculate Heart.
 
Winona, Easter April 12, 2009
 
The Third Crusade, according to Fr. Alain Lorans in "What are the results of the Rosary Crusade?" (Docuмentation Information Catholiques Internationales, April 17, 2010), had as its goal "the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the Supreme Pontiff and all the bishops of the Catholic world, in accordance with the message of Fatima in which Our Lady Herself announced the final Triumph of Her Immaculate Heart." Lorans reports:
 
To date we have only a provisional count, as all the results have not yet been tallied. However, DICI is delighted to announce to its readers, in this exclusive news report, that the goal of 12 million rosaries, which were to form a crown of 12 stars for Mary, Queen of Heaven, has been surpassed by far, since more than 18 million rosaries have already been reported. Among the districts that sent in their results, we should note the generosity of the United States (5,351,500), Africa (2,815,350), Asia (2,538,200), and France (2,529,670). Next come Canada (717,000), Germany (680,000), South America (536,480), Switzerland (411,000), Australia (402,000), Mexico (332,800), Italy (215,000), Ireland (136,190)….
 
Once a definitive count is obtained, this crown of rosaries recited around the world, over the course of nearly a year, will be presented to the Holy Father by Bishop Fellay. Profound thanks to all the Rosary crusaders for their admirable Marian fervor.
 
Bishop Fellay was interviewed by the Remnant Newspaper regarding the March 25, 2010 bouquet presented to Pope Benedict. The interview covered the "Rosary Crusade and Doctrinal Talks."
 
Houston, Texas, May 5, 2010—Superior General Bishop Bernard Fellay of the Society of St. Pius X recently spoke to The Remnant in an exclusive interview following the completion of their third Rosary crusade for the Holy Father on March 25, 2010. Despite Cardinal Kasper’s most recent obvious attempt to "poison the well" and upend the ongoing discussions with the Society’s theologians and representatives of the Holy See (talks in which, it should be noted, he has no role whatsoever), the Holy Father will visit Fatima this week and deliver an intense message.
 
Our Blessed Mother cannot be circuмvented when it comes to answering prayers as She so wills as the mediatrix of all graces. Let us pray, then, that the Holy Father’s message at Fatima this week will be an answer to the most recent rosary crusade for the intention of the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and for the Triumph of Her Immaculate Heart. Five and half million rosaries from the U.S. and a total of 19,142,065 rosaries by Traditionalist Catholics worldwide have been offered for this intention. We thank His Excellency most sincerely for taking time away from his busy schedule to answer a few questions.

Brian Mershon: Your Excellency, what is your reaction to the Society’s request for 12 million rosaries with a result of more than 19 million actually being offered?
 
Bishop Fellay: First of all, I am very, very happy to see such enthusiasm and such an answer to our call. I’m certain that this number isn’t only from the Society’s faithful; I’m sure that many, many others have joined for whom we don’t have the total figures. That’s the first thing.
 
Secondly, I’m pleased with the enthusiasm for understanding the importance of this matter. This subject matter is very, very important.
 
Brian Mershon: The two other rosary crusades resulted in rather quick and historic responses—the freeing of the Traditional Latin Mass to all priests everywhere in the world, and the dissolving of the excommunications of the Society bishops, which in turn led to the commencement of doctrinal talks with the Holy See. Do you anticipate a similarly dramatic response to this third rosary crusade?
 
Bishop Fellay: I leave it to be totally in the hands of God and the Blessed Virgin Mary. But, probably not. One never knows, but I would be very surprised if the Pope consecrated Russia. It would be a great, great surprise. But, on the other hand, we have already been surprised before, so I would not be amazed if it were to happen so quickly. This time what we’re asking for is so important and so big and it is so directly involved in all the events of the history of our times.
 
The Blessed Virgin Mary did not bless this Rosary Crusade to obtain the Consecration of Russia nor the Forth Rosary Crusade which followed from Easter 2011 to Pentecost 2012. Why? What happened? Bishop Fellay, in an attempt to please both God and man, tried to follow two directly opposed courses of action. On November 13, 2009 the "doctrinal discussions" between the SSPX and Rome began. By entering into these discussions with Rome, Bishop Fellay set the Society upon a course of action which was in direct disobedience to the warning of the Blessed Virgin Mary.
 
Bishop Williamson was contacted by the visionary in early February 2011. His Excellency conducted his own independent inquiry that included traveling to interview the visionary and directly examine the evidence. There were follow-up meetings with the visionary traveling to meet with His Excellency as well as the exchanges of written communications. Bishop Williamson, in a communication with the visionary on August 5, 2011, said:
 
"Our Lord was so totally angry, because after Pius XI had in the thirties thought he knew better than the Mother of God how to deal with Communism, and had refused to consecrate Russia to His Mother’s heart, with World War II as a result, Our Lord had given special graces to the SSPX by which it should have known better that Pius XI. And there it goes, into exactly the same human machinations, scorning His Mother. Only She could still protect or save the SSPX, which She immediately did."

It all makes sense. Poor BpF. He had come under pressure from Rome in the spring-summer of 2008 to not (do) the Rosary Crusade to consecrate Russia. BpF agonized over the decision, and then on Oct. 5 finally decided.
 
On March 24, 2012, Bishop Williamson, in a communication to a confidant of the visionary said:
 
I tried maybe half a dozen times to phone you, but it (may) not now be so necessary after the reply to Msgr. Bux, which perhaps answered at least in part to your concern for the neglect of Our Lady’s solution, which is in effect our one hope. Patience. God is still there, and He is still in command!
 
On April 14, 2012, Bishop Williamson, in a communication with the visionary said:
 
"As to your letter to Bishop Fellay, it seems to me that you show a remarkable degree of understanding for why he has done what he has done. He cannot object to your manner, nor to your lack of comprehension.
 
"So your letter may of course be useless, but you can content yourself that you did all you could. Do be content with that, is my advice, even if you continue to be possessed by such anguish as Sister Lucy must have suffered, and in spades.
 
"As to the English bishop, your counselor’s advice is good, as it seems to me. And I am delighted that you have had it from somebody else that he has no position of authority, nor standing of credit, to tell the world at large such truths as you wish told. Indeed BpF is the key figure. Dare I hope that wise counsel will be heeded?
 
"Personally I think the Devil is after you. How could he not be?"
 
And what is the response of Bishop Fellay? We do not know directly but Fr. Francois Chazal said on August 6, 2012, in his letter to Fr. Daniel Couture, Asia District Superior, in reply to the second Canonical Monition:
 
"Lastly, I would like to complete my defense with Our Lady. To this day, I still do not understand how the piety of our faithful towards Her was chosen as an instrument for the reconciliation plans. And is there an awareness that the man who will process the reconciliation plans is the prefect of the CDF (Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller), a man notorious for his denial of Mother Mary’s virginity? I have heard from the Horse’s Mouth, the First Assistant (Father Niklaus Pfluger), that we cannot build our plans on a miraculous triumph of Our Lady above the institution of the Papacy; I remember that Benedict XVI is the most recent chief plotter of the burial of the message of Fatima, and, in the end, instead of Our Lady choosing the time and nature of Her Triumph, we will tell Her what the circuмstances are that She must follow and supposedly this is how the papacy will convert."
 
"We cannot build our plans on a miraculous triumph of Our Lady above the institution of the Papacy." Is this the indirect response of Bishop Fellay or is it the advice that an incompetent counselor has placed in his head? St. Pius X in Pascendi said "every society needs a directing authority to guide its members toward the common end, to foster prudently the elements of cohesion, which in a religious society are doctrine and worship; hence, the triple authority in the Catholic Church, disciplinary, dogmatic and liturgical" (emphasis his).The purpose of the "directing authority" ("disciplinary") is to direct the Church "toward the common end" which are "doctrine" ("dogmatic") and "worship" ("liturgical"). The "directing authority to guide its members," that Fr. Pfluger identifies as the "institution of the Papacy," exists for the purpose of protecting the faith and the purity of liturgical worship, and by this, obtain the glory of God and the salvation of souls. The "institution of the papacy" cannot be legitimately employed to corrupt doctrine and vulgarize worship. The proper function of the "institution of the papacy" can never legitimately work in opposition to the "miraculous triumph of Our Lady." That is may help explain our Blessed Mother’s calling the excommunication of Archbishop Lefebvre and the other bishops as "false" and forbidding Bishop Fellay to ask for their removal.
 
Modernist Rome rejects the immutability of Catholic dogma. As Pope Benedict XVI quoting Pope John XXIII said in his address to the Roman curia in 2005, "The substance of the ancient doctrine of the deposit of faith is one thing, and the way in which it is presented is another…", that is, they distinguish the faith from its dogmatic formulations seeing in dogma both perennial truths and contingent accretions that must be distinguished. Modernist Rome treats immemorial ecclesiastical traditions as simple matters of Church discipline open to the free and independent will of the legislator as thus liturgical rites that are in a perpetual state of instability that reflect what Pope Benedict identified in the same speech as "the perennial problem of the relationship between faith and reason that is re-emerging in ever new forms." Dogma and our immemorial traditions constitute the very ground on which traditional Catholicism stands. It is foolish for anyone to engage in doctrinal discussions with a modernist opponent who holds the trump card of authority without shielding himself in the mantel of the Blessed Virgin. That mantle was generously offered and imprudently rejected. From a human perspective, any rational examination of the state of the Church and the world today is without hope. But, our perspective is supernatural. The only foundation left upon which to "build our plans" is the "miraculous triumph of Our Lady."
 
The Mother of God said at Fatima, "If My requests are granted Russia will be converted and there will be peace".But She also warned us, "If My requests are not granted, Russia will spread her errors throughout the world raising up wars and persecutions against the Church, the good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated." We know that Our Mother said, "In the end,My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will Consecrate Russia to Me, which will be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to mankind." The only thing that is not determined is how many "wars and persecutions against the Church" we must suffer, how many "good will be martyred, how much the "Holy Father will suffer, how many "nations will be annihilated."
 
The visionary to whom Our Lady appeared to relay these messages to His Excellency Bishop Fellay, for the purpose of this communication will remain nameless. It is not the purpose of this communication to demonstrate the visionary’s virtue, sincerity, simplicity, singleness of purpose, mental or psychological competency, or the authenticity of the apparition and the veracity of the message. What has been demonstrated is, after a thorough investigation by priests of the SSPX and then by Bishop Fellay and finally Bishop Williamson, that they believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary has in fact appeared to this person and communicated what She wants Bishop Fellay and the SSPX to do for the good of the Church. Bishop Fellay has on two specific occasions directly disobeyed what he believes to be a direct command from the Mother of God while trying to fulfill her Rosary Crusade request on his own terms.
 
By the grace of God, we pray and encourage Bishop Fellay to reconsider his decisions on this matter, and, like St. Peter, set himself upon the right course of action. One is reminded of the advice of St. Jane Francis de Chantal who said:
 
"Faithfully do what God expects of you each moment, and leave the rest up to Him. I assure you that living in this manner will bring you great peace. St. Jane Francis de Chantal."
 
If Bishop Williamson has conducted his own investigation and concluded that this message from the Mother of God is worthy of belief, he is obliged to make every effort to encourage Bishop Fellay to fulfill Her requests. He must not fail to come forward with his evidence in the public arena because this matter does not belong only in the private forum of an individual’s conscience.
 
As to the rest of the priests that are knowledgeable of this matter, if they believe the visionary to be credible then they should plainly say so. It will do no good to remain silent on these matters until the SSPX is left in ruins and traditional Catholics are scattered to the wind.
 
Fr. Nicholas Gruner said that Fatima "warns that if the requests of Our Lady of Fatima for the Consecration of Russia and the First Saturday devotion are not honored, the Church will be persecuted, there will be other major wars, the Holy Father will have much to suffer and various nations will be annihilated. Many nations will be enslaved by Russian militant atheists. Most important, many souls will be lost." What is a soul worth? What price should not be paid?
 
May the good God, through the intercession of the Blessed and Ever Virgin Mary, grant Bishop Fellay the grace to respond to her request as she asked, and to respond with trust in the providence of God and fulfill the duty that God has given him. It is not too late.
 
David Drew

Posted on September 8, 2012

Oh no, not the "visionary" again.  

sick

Oh no, not the "visionary" again.  

I'd be interested to know, Ultrarigorist, what reasons you have for dismissing this visionary?

Just because there is question of a "visionary" at all, and the Blessed Mother doesn't REALLY ever appear to people...it's just a fantasy of some silly Catholics?

Or the Blessed Mother only appears to children in rural parts of Europe, particularly those engaged in agricultural pursuits (shepherding)...anywhere else is just ridiculous?

Quote from: ultrarigorist

Oh no, not the "visionary" again.  

Hey... the visionary is okay... if his message is to dump +Fellay.

 :dancing:

The end does not justify the means.

Our Lord Jesus Christ use to appear to St. John of the Cross, and converse with him. The devil use to appear to St. John also as Our Lord. St. John could not always tell the difference, therefore he asked Our Lord not no appear to him anymore as he did not need to see Our Lord to believe.

There's like five or five seers just in my state. They're a dime a dozen in South America. We do not need a "visionary" to tell us that:

By June 2008 the Vatican became aware that Bishop Fellay was possibly preparing a Rosary Crusade for the Consecration of Russia because of a letter (the author of which will remain nameless) which was addressed to Pope Benedict XVI invoking his blessing upon such an endeavor. The Vatican took the letter seriously. Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos directly summoned Bishop Fellay to Rome from Hawaii where His Excellency had come to administer the sacrament of Confirmation. On June 4, Cardinal Hoyos with a group of at least four other clerics intimidated and threatened Bishop Fellay that if he should call for a Rosary Crusade for the Consecration of Russia, Rome would close the door to any future discussions and reaffirm the excommunications which they had heretofore ceased proclaiming. Bishop Fellay was then ordered to sign the "Vatican Ultimatum" accepting five conditions necessary for any further discussions.

This cowardly shift away from the Consecration of Russia Crusade, can be verified by someone. Like, what was the timeline of this crusade, and did it shift in midstream?

If this is correct, Bp. Fellay is a coward of the worst order, for he knows everything about the Fatima request, like we all do, now 80 since Pius XI and 60 years Pius XII. If I was ordered to do the same by my superior, it would only serve to me as a notice that they are the enemies of God.



 

If this were true, shouldn't somebody have spoken out?  Is this the same 'seer' I have read about that supposedly told +F that he was going to be a hero for returning the Church to tradition? Or was that a different one? :confused1:

No, that was a completely different situation. Let us NOT confuse different persons or ideas. That is never a good idea if Truth is one's objective.

Quote from: ultrarigorist

Oh no, not the "visionary" again.  

I'd be interested to know, Ultrarigorist, what reasons you have for dismissing this visionary?

Just because there is question of a "visionary" at all, and the Blessed Mother doesn't REALLY ever appear to people...it's just a fantasy of some silly Catholics?

Or the Blessed Mother only appears to children in rural parts of Europe, particularly those engaged in agricultural pursuits (shepherding)...anywhere else is just ridiculous?

Roughly, because everything about this one is fishy. The "vision" is being presented obliquely, by proxies of an anonymous "messenger". It has been largely promoted by Dawn Marie, who's unlikely to be confused with someone in correspondence with a true visionary if her fora conduct is any indicator. Long story short, there is as yet no precise chronicle of people, events, and (verbatim) messages. They seem to have learned a lesson from other recent "visionaries", in that once they got precise, their lies would soon catch them up. I.e., if you're spinning a yarn it's safer that it reads like one.

I do believe Our Blessed Mother appears to people. But not to provide discussion group fodder, nor necessarily for public revelation. And now, more that ever, we should flee from such things without hesitation because deception permeates everything these days. Especially if it's got a sensationalist dint. If it's real, She will make this known unambiguously. I say it because I've met more than my share of visionaries or their promoters, all of whom served no other purpose than to make fools of, or disillusion, Catholics. This case looks a lot like those to me. Can't say if agriculture plays into this at all, since the biggest mystery is who's "it".

But hey, if the "message" is inviting +Fellay walk the plank, it shouldn't bother me too much, right?

NB, Clare on IA pointed out that they already have a little problem with their dates as it stands.