Author Topic: Response to an SSPX Priest - by Sean Johnson (Read 15807 times)

covet truth · « **Reply #20 on:** November 22, 2015, 01:43:52 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

To be noted is how strict Sean is in including only verifiable accounts. He already suggests that his list of compromises could go on and on, and that is before testimonies which can not be verified.

For example, point #16
16) The US District Bursar posing for pics withan Ecclesia Dei priest at the Catholic Identity Conference in West Virginia (Can one imagine Archbishop Lefebvre attending the Mass of an ICK priest, or posing for pics with them?);

It was reported on this site that this conference included a Mass celebrated with three priests -- FSSP, SSPX, and diocesan -- filling the roles of priest, deacon, and subdeacon. Sean inquired as to the truth of this report and received no response, so it did not make it to this list.

While I appreciate reports of both verifiable and unverifiable information, a list that includes only things which can be referenced to a source is very useful.

As I recall that was reported in "The Remnant" by Michael Matt who spoke at that conference and who was so enthusiastic about this happening. He has long advocated the joining together of all "traditional" groups under one umbrella -- but makes no distinction between the conciliar one and the Catholic one.

Henry4 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 22, 2015, 03:29:19 PM »

There’s nothing new here and there’s nothing from Mr. Johnson that can’t be easily rebutted. In fact most of this has been addressed before either here or on other forums. As a simple example, take #1. Here are the words of Archbishop Lefebvre 2 years after the consecrations:

Quote

Someone was saying to me yesterday, "But what if Rome accepted your bishops and then you were completely exempted from the other bishops' jurisdiction?" But firstly, they are a long way right now from accepting any such thing, and then, let them first make us such an offer! (Archbishop Lefebvre, Two years after the Consecrations)

And here’s Bishop Williamson’s take on this quote:

Quote

“… In other words, what if Rome offered you a sweetie-pie solution? Answer: firstly, the Romans are a long way right now from accepting any such thing, and then, let them first make us such an offer, then we’ll think about it. …” (Bishop Williamson: 6th Bristol conference on SSPX, Archbishop Lefebvre & Rome, 2’58” - 3’18”)

Now clearly if Archbishop Lefebvre had set this “pre-condition” in 1988 as Mr. Johnson alleges, he could never have entertained such an idea in 1990, yet he did and Bishop Williamson agrees that he did.

Also, concerning this so-called "pre-condition" the conversion of modernist Rome. I would ask the conversion from what to what, how is it to be judged and by whom? What are the concrete steps you want to see executed?

Ekim · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2015, 08:48:13 AM »

Henry, it won't be to difficult to see (no sarcasm intended here). Rome will restore the Church to her former glory by once again adhering to the infallible teachings previously established. Notably, the restoration of the True Mass, the exile of collegiality and religious liberty. The recognition of the Catholic Church as the only Church founded by Our Lord for the salvation of souls, and the condemnation of false religions...just to name a few.

When you see the Church once again upholding her sacred doctrines then you will know that such a conversion is taking place.

Henry4 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2015, 09:46:39 AM »

Quote from: Ekim

Henry, it won't be to difficult to see (no sarcasm intended here). Rome will restore the Church to her former glory by once again adhering to the infallible teachings previously established. Notably, the restoration of the True Mass, the exile of collegiality and religious liberty. The recognition of the Catholic Church as the only Church founded by Our Lord for the salvation of souls, and the condemnation of false religions...just to name a few.

When you see the Church once again upholding her sacred doctrines then you will know that such a conversion is taking place.

Ekim, thanks but what you wrote doesn’t answer my question. I want to know the practical steps required. For example, you wrote “the exile of collegiality and religious liberty”, what does this mean ‘exile’ - the repealing of Vatican II and if so by whom?

Ekim · « **Reply #24 on:** November 23, 2015, 01:40:47 PM »

Yes. By the Pope.

As +Fellay use to say....VII is like a pot of soup with a pinch of poison. You can not trust that your spoonful will be safe. You must throw out the entire pot.