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Offline Matthew

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Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
« on: March 22, 2022, 09:43:42 PM »
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  • Sean sent this by e-mail. He gave up CathInfo for Lent, remember --


    Greetings Your Excellencies, Rev. Fathers, and Friends--

    Today, the prayer for the forthcoming March 25 consecration was released, and is available for viewing here: https://thecatholicspirit.com/news/local-news/archbishop-hebda-bishop-williams-to-join-pope-francis-in-consecrating-ukraine-russia/

    Some things become evident from this text:

    • The consecration makes no mention of Fatima, nor Russia spreading its errors;
    • The consecration is not being performed to comply with Our Lady's request of 1929, but as Archbishop Hebda states in the introductory comments in the link to the prayer above, it is merely "inspired by" the Fatima model of requesting Our Lady's help and consecrating ourselves to  her in dire times;
    • That this is the proper reading is reinforced by Archbishop Hebda's pointing out that several consecrations of this type hav been performed since the Fatima model was made known, with the "real one" (so he says) havin been performed by Pope John Paul II in 1984.
    • If the real Fatima consecration is considered by the conciliarists to have taken place in 1984, than there can be no intention of complying with the Fatima request on March 25: To do so would necessarily imply that Our Lady reneged on her promise!

    Additional difficulties to observe -at this point mere dicta, in light of the foregoing- would be:

    • The inclusion of Ukraine: Our Lady made no mention of it.  Some SSPXers are trying to downplay that inclusion as a "mere detail" of no consequence, while others are trying to justify the inclusion of Ukraine on the basis of it having once been part of Russia.  In this, they are mistaken: While Ukraine was annexed and incorporated into the former Soviet Union, it was never a part of Russia.  It was a part of the Soviet Union, and distinct from Russia.  Finally, if one wants to say that by the time of Our Lady's 1929 request, Russia was then already part of the USSR, and therefore Ukraine does not present an issue, since Our Lady obviously meant by "Russia" the USSR (of which Ukraine was a part), then according to the same logic, Francis ought to add to the consecration prayer the 13 other countries who comprised the USSR, lest Francis risk only consecrating part of the USSR.
    • Ultimately none of this matters, because the consecration is transpiring in 2022, when there can be no pretext of Ukraine being part of Russia (either Russsia proper or the USSR), and is indisputable an independent country.  Our Lady was not concerned with Ukraine spreading its errors.
    • Even if all the foregoing regarding theinclusion of Ukraine could be dismissed, the text of the consecration prayer makes clear that it is "all of humanity" which is firstly consecrated, then as a postscript, "especialy Russia and Ukraine."  Is "all of humanity" now constituting Russia?  Is it not material that this is a consecration of the whole world, with Russia and Ukraine merely receiving special meention?  Does anyone deny there is an obvious, substantial and material difference between consecrating Russia versus consecrating the whole world, especially Russia and Ukraine?

    Because of these reasons, I do not share the enthusiasm many (even in the traditional world) seem to evince.  Quite the contrary, like some, I'm rather apprehensive that heaven may take offense at the imposture and the continues refusal to comply with Our Lady's very simple request (which the Churchmen could at any time easily fulfill, were they inclined to do so).

    Will the promised time of peace follow?  Will persecution of the Church cease?  It certainly did not after 1984 (of which Sr. Lucy is alleged to have stated satisfied Our Lady's request), and I do not expect it will after March 25.  Quite the contrary, the authorities will use this latest contorted consecration to delay the real consecration, saying, "Pope Francis complied with Our Lady's request on March 25."  Meanwhile, I worry the chastisement will continue to intensify as a sign of heavenly displeasure? 

    "By their fruits you shall know them."


    Semper Idem,
    Sean Johnson

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #1 on: March 23, 2022, 07:08:28 AM »
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  • Yes, most of us called this Bogus Ordo consecration out as a fail yesterday shortly after its release.

    1) Our Lady asked simply for the consecration of Russia.  This is a consecration of the Church and humanity, especially Russia and Ukraine.  In other words the object of the consecration is humanity, with a special shout-out to Russia and Ukraine, as being part of humanity.

    2) Our Blessed stated (at Tuy in 1929) that the intent of the consecration would be to serve as an act of reparation for blasphemies against Her Immaculate Heart.  Bergoglio's parody is nothing but a prayer of petition asking for peace (in Russia and Ukraine).  Bergoglio, of course, has notoriously been one of Our Lady's chief blasphemers.

    https://novusordowatch.org/2019/12/bergoglio-blasphemes-the-immaculate/ (this stuff is too foul to repeat)

    3) Our Lady insisted that it had to be done with "all" the bishops of the world.  Sister Lucia later clarified (in 1930) that she envisioned this as meaning that the pope would "ORDER" the bishops to participate.  Instead we have Bergoglio's "invitation".  So what does "all" mean?  Would 51% participation count as all?  Will we have to take a poll of NO bishops to verify that the consecration met this condition?

    And of course this thing reads like the typical Novus Ordo Modernist manifesto, replete with all kinds of bogus hyper-sentimentality and nonsensical expressions.  If I were God, I would reject the thing for that reason alone as unworthy of a solemn consecration to the Immaculate Heart of Our Lady.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #2 on: March 23, 2022, 07:13:12 AM »
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  • This is coming from someone (namely, myself) who was hoping that the Bergoglian consecration would in fact comply with Our Blessed Mother's request.  Then, when nothing (good) happened, we would have additional evidence that Bergoglio is not the pope.  That would be the remaining conditon of the consecration.

    I remain curious about how God will respond to this.  God will not be mocked.  I could see "all hell" breaking out minutes after the consecration.  Of course, God has allowed the V2 papal claimants to simulate papal authority for all these years (and to canonize one another), so perhaps He might will to allow the simulation to continue.  Perhaps Bergoglio, who is clearly in lockstep with the Globalists and Globohomo (and likely working for them), is involved in some coordinated effort to make it appear as if it had an effect, say, with a sudden withdrawal of Russia from Ukraine (that had been pre-planned).  I will be tuning in on Friday.  God could also cause Bergoglio to drop dead right before or right after the scheduled consecration.  Or perhaps immediately after the consecration, the Vatican will be visited by one of Putin's hypersonic missiles ... and thus the Catholic prophecies of 2 worm-ridden popes, another of 2 popes dying in one night, and of course the partially-revealed vision of Fatima mentioning a bishop dressed in white who "seemed" to be the pope.  At what other time did we have someone walking around in white, basically appearing to be the pope, as we have now with Ratzinger in Rome?  I always found that a curious expression.  Sister Lucia did not state, "I saw the Holy Father." ... which she normally would have just said.  Somehow this vision gave the appearance in her mind (as communicated by God) that this man LOOKED like a pope but somehow wasn't.  Could also be a reference to Bergoglio, someone who "appeared" to be the pope but wasn't (sedeprivationism)?

    Offline clarkaim

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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #3 on: March 23, 2022, 12:38:26 PM »
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  • Probably a dumb question, but as I understand the Cassisiacuм thesis, Bergolio possesses the "pope elect" status and if he were to completely convert to the faith, be properly ordained and consecrated, could become the Pope.   What if, as an unexpected result of all this, God zaps him with some grace as such an that happens?  

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #4 on: March 23, 2022, 09:23:42 PM »
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  • Dear Friends-
    Yesterday, I sent you an email regarding some questions/concerns I have regarding the forthcoming consecration.  
    I posted that same email in the comments section under an article on the same subject on the Remnant website here: https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/5903-the-consecration-text-released
    I was then engaged by a poster calling himself "Ignatio.Az," who objected to my take, and after a bit of nastiness made some arguments which honesty makes difficult.
    I submit this dialogue to your consideration, and ask you rhetorically: Does he have us checkmated?
    I am by no means competent to argue the ins and outs of Fatima; I have never made any special study of it.
    What do you think?
    Semper Idem,Sean Johnson


    Ignatio.Az  Anon.  16 hours ago
    ---“The consecration makes no mention of Fatima, nor Russia spreading its errors;”
    Thankfully, mentioning Fatima and Russia spreading its errors, is not a requirement.
    ---“The consecration is not being performed to comply with Our Lady's request of 1929,”
    The contrary is most likely true, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that the Consecration fulfils the requirements of Our Lady’s request of 1929, namely, that Russia be consecrated to her Immaculate Heart by the Pope and bishops of the world.
    ---“If the real Fatima consecration is considered by the conciliarists to have taken place in 1984, than there can be no intention of complying with the Fatima request on March 25.”
    No need to judge the internal forum. All that matters is that the ACT, which was requested, is accomplished.
    ---“The inclusion of Ukraine: Our Lady made no mention of it.”
    Our Lady never said Russia had to be the sole object of the consecration. All she said is Russia has to be consecrated, and that condition is satisfied in the published form of Consecration. You have invented a new condition (that Russia alone be named) that Heaven itself never made.
    ---“Even if all the foregoing regarding the inclusion of Ukraine could be dismissed, the text of the consecration prayer makes clear that it is "all of humanity" which is firstly consecrated, then as a postscript, "especialy Russia and Ukraine."”
    'All of humanity' is named first, but what is “especially” being consecrate is Russia and Ukraine. Hence, Russia first, and Ukraine second, are singled out as the primary objects of the Consecration.
    ---“Because of these reasons, I do not share the enthusiasm many (even in the traditional world) seem to evince.
    The reason you aren’t enthusiastic about it is because if this Consecration by Francis and the bishops in union satisfies the condition required for the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart, and the world converts, it will prove that Francis was the Pope after all, and that the Roman Catholic Church did not defect at Vatican II, as you and your fellow heretics claim. It is not a lack of enthusiasm, but a fear being exposed as schismatic and heretic that has you concerned... and it should.


    Firstly, I’m not sedevacantist. I accept Francis is Pope. Secondly, no need to display your nastinessmerely because I’m airing concerns which would not have arisen had the Pope simply said “I consecrate Russia to the immaculate heart of Mary.”
    As regards the substance of your position, it seems to be that, whatever Francis might say or intend is of no account, so long as he ALSO says he’s consecrating Russia (along with whatever else he’s consecrating).
    Since Our Lady only asked for Russia to be consecrated, the burden lies upon you to demonstrate that She does not take issue with Francis’s Masonic concoction, and sees it your way.
    This, of course, can’t be done.
    Meanwhile, I leave you with this analogy: Let’s say I’m told to fry a steak. All I have to do to comply with the order is put a steak in a pan and turn on the heat. But if in addition to this, I I cut the beef up into chunks, add flour and water, Gravy seasoning, carrots, celery, potatoes, have I still complied With the order?
    According to your logic, since there’s still beef in the pan, I have.
    But the rest of the world understands that instead of frying steak, I made stew.
    Same thing with this consecration.










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      Ignatio.Az  Anon.  3 hours ago
      "Meanwhile, I leave you with this analogy: Let’s say I’m told to fry a steak. All I have to do to comply with the order is put a steak in a pan and turn on the heat. But if in addition to this, I I cut the beef up into chunks, add flour and water, Gravy seasoning, carrots, celery, potatoes, have I still complied With the order?"
      Here's a better analogy. You are told to fry a steak. .In response, you fry a steak, and while your at it, you also make a salad, potatoes, mushrooms to go on the steak, and make a pie for desert. Did you fulfil the request of frying a steak? Of course you did.
      Now, if you would had been told: "Fry a steak only, and whatever you do, DO NOT cook anything else for at least 24 hours" With that added condition, you would not have fulfilled the request. But when did Our Lady every say "consecrate Russia" only, and DO NOT name anything else?




    Anon.  Ignatio.Az  an hour ago
    Implicitly, by your revision of my analogy, you are arguing that Francis's consecration (including salad and potatoes, etc) has not merely complied with Our Lady's request, but actually gone above and beyond.
    Leaving aside the unliklihood that this is what Francis thinks he is doing (complying with the requirements of an apparition he doesn't even refer to, and then some), you implicitly argue that Our Lady was too vague by not being specific enough in her request.
    Moreover, it ignores the fact that Our Lady may have had reasons she only wanted Russia consecrated:
    If I tell my son to go get some wood from the shed and build a doghouse, and in addition to building the doghouse he also builds a shed, he may have materially complied with my request, but frustrated my aims in asking him to build the doghouse: By thinking himself to have gone above and beyond, he has frustrated my will to build a garage with the wood he took on his own initiative to build a shed.
    Was I obliged to explain my plans and reasonings to him, being sure to tell him not to build anything else with the wood? Or did I have a reasonable expectation that he would simply do what I told him?
    In short, your reconstructed analogy only holds if it can be ascertained that Our Lady does not have reasons for only wanting Russia consecrated (and obviously, this ascertainment cannot be accomplished this side of heaven, barring another revelation).








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      Ignatio.Az  Anon.  an hour ago  edited
      "In short, your reconstructed analogy only holds if it can be ascertained that Our Lady does not have reasons for only wanting Russia consecrated."
      That can indeed be ascertained. In Volume 2 of The Whole Truth About Fatima, we learn that in addition to the Consecration of Russia, Our Lord also added a request for the Consecration of the world "with a special mention of Russia". When he added the part about the world, however, he did not specify the need of performing the consecration of the world in union with the bishops. When Pius XII did consecrated the world in 1942 (without the bishops), Sr. Lucy said he only fulfilled part of what was requested, since he did not also consecrate Russia in union with the bishops. She then added that Our Lord was pleased with the partial fulfilment, but that "the time for Russia's conversion has not yet arrived."
      Since Christ himself added the request for the world to be consecrated, and said it could be done at the same time as the Consecration of Russia with all the bishops, we have definitive proof, from God, that Our Lady did not have a reason for ONLY wanting Russia named as the object of the consecration.



    Hmm...That's not a bad argument. I'll have to think about it.

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #5 on: March 23, 2022, 09:25:59 PM »
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  • Probably a dumb question, but as I understand the Cassisiacuм thesis, Bergolio possesses the "pope elect" status and if he were to completely convert to the faith, be properly ordained and consecrated, could become the Pope.  What if, as an unexpected result of all this, God zaps him with some grace as such an that happens? 

    It won't.  His consecation is an insult, a Modernist bastardization and parody of what Our Blessed Mother requested.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #6 on: March 23, 2022, 09:28:51 PM »
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  • Dear Friends-
    Yesterday, I sent you an email regarding some questions/concerns I have regarding the forthcoming consecration. 
    I posted that same email in the comments section under an article on the same subject on the Remnant website here: https://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/headline-news-around-the-world/item/5903-the-consecration-text-released
    I was then engaged by a poster calling himself "Ignatio.Az," who objected to my take, and after a bit of nastiness made some arguments which honesty makes difficult.
    I submit this dialogue to your consideration, and ask you rhetorically: Does he have us checkmated?
    I am by no means competent to argue the ins and outs of Fatima; I have never made any special study of it.
    What do you think?
    Semper Idem,Sean Johnson


    Ignatio.Az Anon. 16 hours ago
    ---“The consecration makes no mention of Fatima, nor Russia spreading its errors;”
    Thankfully, mentioning Fatima and Russia spreading its errors, is not a requirement.
    ---“The consecration is not being performed to comply with Our Lady's request of 1929,”
    The contrary is most likely true, but it doesn't matter. What matters is that the Consecration fulfils the requirements of Our Lady’s request of 1929, namely, that Russia be consecrated to her Immaculate Heart by the Pope and bishops of the world.
    ---“If the real Fatima consecration is considered by the conciliarists to have taken place in 1984, than there can be no intention of complying with the Fatima request on March 25.”
    No need to judge the internal forum. All that matters is that the ACT, which was requested, is accomplished.
    ---“The inclusion of Ukraine: Our Lady made no mention of it.”
    Our Lady never said Russia had to be the sole object of the consecration. All she said is Russia has to be consecrated, and that condition is satisfied in the published form of Consecration. You have invented a new condition (that Russia alone be named) that Heaven itself never made.
    ---“Even if all the foregoing regarding the inclusion of Ukraine could be dismissed, the text of the consecration prayer makes clear that it is "all of humanity" which is firstly consecrated, then as a postscript, "especialy Russia and Ukraine."”
    'All of humanity' is named first, but what is “especially” being consecrate is Russia and Ukraine. Hence, Russia first, and Ukraine second, are singled out as the primary objects of the Consecration.
    ---“Because of these reasons, I do not share the enthusiasm many (even in the traditional world) seem to evince.
    The reason you aren’t enthusiastic about it is because if this Consecration by Francis and the bishops in union satisfies the condition required for the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart, and the world converts, it will prove that Francis was the Pope after all, and that the Roman Catholic Church did not defect at Vatican II, as you and your fellow heretics claim. It is not a lack of enthusiasm, but a fear being exposed as schismatic and heretic that has you concerned... and it should.


    Firstly, I’m not sedevacantist. I accept Francis is Pope. Secondly, no need to display your nastinessmerely because I’m airing concerns which would not have arisen had the Pope simply said “I consecrate Russia to the immaculate heart of Mary.”
    As regards the substance of your position, it seems to be that, whatever Francis might say or intend is of no account, so long as he ALSO says he’s consecrating Russia (along with whatever else he’s consecrating).
    Since Our Lady only asked for Russia to be consecrated, the burden lies upon you to demonstrate that She does not take issue with Francis’s Masonic concoction, and sees it your way.
    This, of course, can’t be done.
    Meanwhile, I leave you with this analogy: Let’s say I’m told to fry a steak. All I have to do to comply with the order is put a steak in a pan and turn on the heat. But if in addition to this, I I cut the beef up into chunks, add flour and water, Gravy seasoning, carrots, celery, potatoes, have I still complied With the order?
    According to your logic, since there’s still beef in the pan, I have.
    But the rest of the world understands that instead of frying steak, I made stew.
    Same thing with this consecration.










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      Ignatio.Az Anon. 3 hours ago
      "Meanwhile, I leave you with this analogy: Let’s say I’m told to fry a steak. All I have to do to comply with the order is put a steak in a pan and turn on the heat. But if in addition to this, I I cut the beef up into chunks, add flour and water, Gravy seasoning, carrots, celery, potatoes, have I still complied With the order?"
      Here's a better analogy. You are told to fry a steak. .In response, you fry a steak, and while your at it, you also make a salad, potatoes, mushrooms to go on the steak, and make a pie for desert. Did you fulfil the request of frying a steak? Of course you did.
      Now, if you would had been told: "Fry a steak only, and whatever you do, DO NOT cook anything else for at least 24 hours" With that added condition, you would not have fulfilled the request. But when did Our Lady every say "consecrate Russia" only, and DO NOT name anything else?




    Anon. Ignatio.Az an hour ago
    Implicitly, by your revision of my analogy, you are arguing that Francis's consecration (including salad and potatoes, etc) has not merely complied with Our Lady's request, but actually gone above and beyond.
    Leaving aside the unliklihood that this is what Francis thinks he is doing (complying with the requirements of an apparition he doesn't even refer to, and then some), you implicitly argue that Our Lady was too vague by not being specific enough in her request.
    Moreover, it ignores the fact that Our Lady may have had reasons she only wanted Russia consecrated:
    If I tell my son to go get some wood from the shed and build a doghouse, and in addition to building the doghouse he also builds a shed, he may have materially complied with my request, but frustrated my aims in asking him to build the doghouse: By thinking himself to have gone above and beyond, he has frustrated my will to build a garage with the wood he took on his own initiative to build a shed.
    Was I obliged to explain my plans and reasonings to him, being sure to tell him not to build anything else with the wood? Or did I have a reasonable expectation that he would simply do what I told him?
    In short, your reconstructed analogy only holds if it can be ascertained that Our Lady does not have reasons for only wanting Russia consecrated (and obviously, this ascertainment cannot be accomplished this side of heaven, barring another revelation).








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      Ignatio.Az Anon. an hour ago edited
      "In short, your reconstructed analogy only holds if it can be ascertained that Our Lady does not have reasons for only wanting Russia consecrated."
      That can indeed be ascertained. In Volume 2 of The Whole Truth About Fatima, we learn that in addition to the Consecration of Russia, Our Lord also added a request for the Consecration of the world "with a special mention of Russia". When he added the part about the world, however, he did not specify the need of performing the consecration of the world in union with the bishops. When Pius XII did consecrated the world in 1942 (without the bishops), Sr. Lucy said he only fulfilled part of what was requested, since he did not also consecrate Russia in union with the bishops. She then added that Our Lord was pleased with the partial fulfilment, but that "the time for Russia's conversion has not yet arrived."
      Since Christ himself added the request for the world to be consecrated, and said it could be done at the same time as the Consecration of Russia with all the bishops, we have definitive proof, from God, that Our Lady did not have a reason for ONLY wanting Russia named as the object of the consecration.



    Hmm...That's not a bad argument. I'll have to think about it.

    If Sean Johnson is somehow defeated by these absurdly weak objections, then he really needs to study this question more.  I thought he was supposed to be off the internet anyway.  This is like when he says he's leaving CI and then starts posting in the Anonymous forum.

    If Sean is ignorant of Fatima and what Our Lady has requested, he should be going out in public arguing a weak case that's easily hit out of the park; he's pitching softballs to the Modernist Conciliar apologists.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #7 on: March 23, 2022, 09:37:22 PM »
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  • Our Lady requested the consecration of Russia as an act of reparation for blasphemies against her Immaculate Heart.  Bergoglio's formula is nothing more than a prayer of petition for peace.  Of course, Bergoglio has been one of the chief blasphemeres of Our Blessed Mother.  So it's vitiated in its intention, as well as the horrible Modernist context in which it's couched, where he asks forgiveness for all lack of brotherliness and even for harming the environment, but not for offenses against Our Blessed Mother.  Not ONCE did he in his stream of "regrets" mention lack of faith and blasphemies against Our Lord and Our Lady.  Evidently it offends God more that we harm the environment than that the world blasphemes God and rejects Him.  This prayer is disgusting and offensive to God and an insult to Our Blessed Mother.  It's very possible that some horrible chasitsement will result.

    Our Lady requested the consecration of Russia, not the consecration of humanity with a "shout out" to Russia ... oh, and Ukraine.  That too is an insult to Our Lady, where he can't simply give her EXACTLY what she asked for.  In fact, Berogoglio thinks he's improving on Our Lady's oversight in not asking for all humanity to be consecrated.  He thinks he's one-upping or outdoing Our Lady ... just as Wojtyla decided he would improve upon the Holy Rosary.

    Sister Lucia clarified in 1930 that the Pope had to command/order ALL the bishops to say the prayers.  Bergoglio's "invitation" will not lead to a consecration in union with ALL the bishops.

    Finally, Bergoglio is not the pope.


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #8 on: March 23, 2022, 11:05:23 PM »
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  • And where does Benedict Fit in this all?
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Charity

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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #9 on: March 24, 2022, 12:50:21 PM »
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  • Let us not forget that Our Lady's instructions were that the Pope was to ORDER not invite the bishops of the world to consecrate in union with him.  Inviting instead of ordering is a sign of sheer weakness not to mention a sign of lack of compliance as well, certainly not a sign of strength or properly following instructions from the BVM.

    Also, it should be fairly obvious that Lad is quite correct when he refers to what will be going down (unless something big happens in the interim) as a Modernist bastardization.  Indeed, it will be and just as we are strongly advised to not partake in the Novus Ordo Mass for the very fact that it is a bastardization of the true Mass (and is lacking in what should be present and thus is evil/corrupt) how in the world is it that we are supposed to give a thumbs up to this bastardization/corruption of the Consecration?!

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #10 on: March 29, 2022, 04:39:00 PM »
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  • Greetings Your Excellencies/Matthew/John-

    I was surprised to find this article on the SSPX French District website (La Porte Latine), in which Fr. Bertrand La Bouche makes the same argument I made regarding Russia and only Russia was to be consecrated (even going so far as to use my "sine non qua" criteria analysis.

    A pertinent excerpt:

    "Les conditions de cette Consécration de la Russie sont claires : que le pape consacre la Russie en particulier et non le monde en général et en union, au moins morale, avec les évêques du monde entier.

    A plusieurs reprises [2], Sœur Lucie rappellera ces conditions sine qua non.

    Lors d’un entretien avec le P. Jongen, à Tuy, le 3 février 1946 : « La Sainte Vierge demande la consécration de la Russie au Cœur Immaculé de Marie, par le pape, en union avec tous les évêques du monde ». « N’a-t-elle pas parlé de la consécration du monde ? » « Non ».
    Le P. Mac Glynn, en février 1947, entendit Sœur Lucie répéter avec force cette demande précise : « Non ! Non ! Pas le monde ! La Russie, la Russie » !

    Après l’acte d’offrande effectué le 13 mai 1982 par Jean-Paul II, la voyante fit remarquer que la Russie n’avait pas été l’objet de la consécration. Or, Dieu voulait « la consécration de la Russie et de la seule Russie, sans aucune adjonction »."

    https://laportelatine.org/actualite/la-consecration-de-la-russie-au-coeur-immacule-de-marie  

    Interesting that the SSPX should allow this article to be posted, which contradicts their official position that Our Lady's conditions were satisfied with Francis's consecration.
    More interesting still, is that this morning I was able to find this article, simply by browsing La Porte Latine, but can no longer find it there.  Yes, the link still leads to the article (for now), but somehow it is invisible on their website.  Can anyone find where they have hidden it?  

    Was making the article invisible on the website (but not to search engines) the SSPX's compromise (i.e., We won't censor your article Fr., but neither can we have you contradicting us.  Therefore, those who were awaare of its existence will continue to be able to find it, but you will understand that we can't be advertising this sort of thing." 

    In any case, will Fr. La Bouche soon be replacing Fr. Peter Scott in Nigeria?

    Semper Idem,
    Sean Johnson
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    Re: Critique of the so-called Consecration by Sean Johnson
    « Reply #11 on: March 29, 2022, 06:22:44 PM »
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    • Quote
      La consécration de la Russie au Cœur Immaculé de Marie

      Quote
      De grandes grâces sont attachées à cette consécration, a révélé Notre-Dame à sœur Lucie. A-t-elle été réalisée jusqu’ici ?
      Le 20 juillet 1926, Lucie fut envoyée au noviciat de Tuy, non loin de la frontière portugaise, pour compléter son postulat. Le 2 octobre 1926, elle y reçut le voile, y passa ses deux années de Noviciat et fit profession le 3 octobre 1928. Le 13 juin 1929, dans ce même couvent, Notre Dame vint lui demander la Consécration de la Russie à son Cœur Immaculé. Laissons Sœur Lucie nous décrire cette nouvelle et splendide vision [1]:
      « J’avais demandé et obtenu la permission de mes Supérieures et de mon confesseur de faire une Heure Sainte, de onze heures à minuit, dans la nuit du jeudi au vendredi. Me trouvant ainsi seule, une nuit… la seule lumière était celle de la lampe (du Très Saint Sacrement). Soudain, toute la chapelle s’illumina d’une lumière surnaturelle et, sur l’autel, apparut une croix de lumière, qui s’élevait jusqu’au plafond. Dans une lumière plus claire, on voyait, sur la partie supérieure de la croix, la figure d’un homme, dont on voyait le corps jusqu’à la ceinture, sur sa poitrine une colombe, également lumineuse et, cloué à la croix, le corps d’un autre homme. Un peu au-dessous de la ceinture (de celui-ci), suspendus en l’air, on voyait un calice et une grande hostie, sur laquelle tombaient quelques gouttes de sang, qui coulaient sur les joues du crucifié et d’une blessure à la poitrine. Coulant sur l’hostie, ces gouttes tombaient dans le calice.

      Sous le bras droit de la croix, se trouvait Notre Dame ; c’était Notre Dame de Fatima, avec son Cœur Immaculé dans la main gauche, sans épée, ni roses, mais avec une couronne d’épines et des flammes.
      Sous le bras gauche de la croix, de grandes lettres, comme d’une eau cristalline qui aurait coulé au-dessus de l’autel, formaient ces mots : “Grâce et Miséricorde”. Je compris que m’était montré le mystère de la Très Sainte Trinité, et je reçus sur ce mystère des lumières qu’il ne m’est pas permis de révéler.
      Ensuite, Notre Dame me dit : “Le moment est venu où Dieu demande au Saint-Père de faire, en union avec tous les évêques du monde, la consécration de la Russie à mon Cœur Immaculé. Il promet de la sauver par ce moyen.
      Il y a tant d’âmes que la justice de Dieu condamne pour des péchés commis contre moi, que je viens demander réparation. Sacrifie-toi à cette intention et prie. »
      Les conditions de cette Consécration de la Russie sont claires : que le pape consacre la Russie en particulier et non le monde en général et en union, au moins morale, avec les évêques du monde entier.
      A plusieurs reprises [2], Sœur Lucie rappellera ces conditions sine qua non.
      • Lors d’un entretien avec le P. Jongen, à Tuy, le 3 février 1946 : « La Sainte Vierge demande la consécration de la Russie au Cœur Immaculé de Marie, par le pape, en union avec tous les évêques du monde ». « N’a-t-elle pas parlé de la consécration du monde ? » « Non ».
      • Le P. Mac Glynn, en février 1947, entendit Sœur Lucie répéter avec force cette demande précise : « Non ! Non ! Pas le monde ! La Russie, la Russie » !
      • Après l’acte d’offrande effectué le 13 mai 1982 par Jean-Paul II, la voyante fit remarquer que la Russie n’avait pas été l’objet de la consécration. Or, Dieu voulait « la consécration de la Russie et de la seule Russie, sans aucune adjonction ».
      • Dans une lettre adressée au P. Umberto Pasquale, datée du 13 avril 1980, elle écrit : « Notre Dame à Fatima, dans sa demande, se réfère seulement à la consécration de la Russie » : « só se referece a consagração da Russia », comme nous pouvons le lire ci-dessous :

      • Dans les deux lettres qu’elle écrivit au P. Gonçalves, en mai 1930, Sœur Lucie précise : « Le Bon Dieu promet de mettre fin à la persécution en Russie, si le Saint-Père daigne faire, et ordonne [3] aux évêques du monde catholique de faire également, un acte solennel et public de réparation et de consécration de la Russie ».
      J’entends encore le cher et infatigable [4] abbé Caillon me dire avec émotion dans les années 1980 : « Non, non la Russie n’est toujours pas consacrée au Cœur Immaculé de Marie » ! Reconnaissons tout de même que la réalisation de ces deux conditions : consécration de la seule Russie et l’union morale du Pape avec les évêques, ne dépasse pas les forces humaines ! Pourtant, la demande de Notre Dame n’est toujours pas accomplie, comme en témoigne ce petit tableau :


      PapeAnnéeConsécrationRussieSolennellementAvec les
      évêques
      Pie XI
      Pie XII1942OuiMondeOuiNon
      Pie XII1952OuiOuiNonNon
      Jean XXIII
      Paul VI1964Oui MondeOuiNon
      Jean-Paul Ier
      Jean-Paul II1982OffrandeMondeOuiNon
      Jean-Paul II1984OuiMonde…OuiNon
      Benoît XVI2010OuiLes prêtresOuiNon
      François2013OuiMondeOuiNon

      Il faut admettre, avec le Frère François de Marie des Anges [5], que la consécration faite par Pie XII en 1942 n’a pas été sans fruits : « Il est remarquable que les mois qui suivirent cet acte solennel marquèrent le véritable tournant de la guerre qui s’achemina vers sa fin ». Mais en même temps, le communisme de Staline gagnait en puissance et en 1945 plusieurs nations en seront les victimes.
      En août 1931, à Rianjo, Notre-Seigneur adressera à Sœur Lucie ces paroles terribles : « Fais savoir à mes ministres, étant donné qu’ils suivent l’exemple du roi de France [6] en retardant l’exécution de ma demande, qu’ils le suivront dans le malheur. Le Saint-Père consacrera la Russie, mais ce sera tard ».
      Une objection vous vient peut-être à l’esprit, cher lecteur : la Russie n’est-elle pas désormais sauvée du communisme ? Le mur de Berlin n’a-t-il pas été détruit ? La pratique religieuse russe n’est-elle pas sortie de la clandestinité ? Le président Poutine, dit-on, suit une retraite annuelle dans un monastère orthodoxe ! Nous ne sommes plus au temps de Lénine ou de Staline !
      Certes, mais la Russie est-elle catholique ? L’effondrement du mur de Berlin n’a-t-il pas aussi permis à la décadence occidentale et aux sectes protestantes de pénétrer en Russie ?
      Une espérance est néanmoins de mise, car est apparu de nos jours en Russie un pouvoir fort, cohérent et respecté, sinon craint des autres nations, ce qui ne pourra que favoriser les merveilleux fruits de la consécration de la Russie au Cœur Immaculé telle que Notre Dame de Fatima l’a demandé ! La Russie se convertira alors officiellement à la religion catholique et deviendra un modèle de nation chrétienne.
      Lorsque le P. Alonso questionna sœur Lucie sur la parole de Notre-Seigneur le Pape consacrera la Russie mais ce sera tard, la voyante lui indiqua que « la consécration de la Russie et aussi le triomphe final du Cœur Immaculé de Marie qui lui fera suite sont absolument certains et se réaliseront en dépit de tous les obstacles ».
      Source : Fatima, le message pour notre temps, éditions de Chiré.
      Notes de bas de page

      • Mémoires, Appendice n° 2.[↩]
      • Frère François de Marie des Anges : Fatima, joie intime, événement mondial – Edition CRC, 2e édition revue et corrigée en décembre 1993. Cité par l’abbé Fabrice Delestre sur le site de La Porte Latine.[↩]
      • Ce qui peut signifier que le Ciel accueillerait favorablement cette consécration même si l’autorité papale était très amoindrie.[↩]
      • Le lecteur consultera avec profit l’ouvrage du Frère François de Marie des Anges, op. cit., qui rapporte avec quelle persévérance l’abbé Caillon a œuvré pour cette consécration, jusqu’à entrer plusieurs fois en contact avec le pape.[↩]
      • Op. cit. p. 250.[↩]
      • Le 17 juin 1689, Louis XIV refusa de consacrer son royaume au Sacré-Cœur de Jésus comme le lui avait demandé sainte Marguerite-Marie de la part de Notre-Seigneur. Comme le fait observer le Frère François de Marie des Anges (op. cit. p. 217), le 17 juin 1789, exactement un siècle après, le tiers état insurgé se proclamait Assemblée constituante, renversant ainsi la Monarchie. Ce fut le début de la Révolution française avec sa doctrine des Droits de l’homme sans Dieu et ses atrocités contre l’Église … [↩]




      Quote
      The Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

      Quote
      Great graces are attached to this consecration, Our Lady revealed to Sister Lucia. Has it been done so far?
      On July 20, 1926, Lucie was sent to the novitiate of Tuy, not far from the Portuguese border, to complete her postulancy. On October 2, 1926, she received the veil there, spent her two years of Novitiate there and made profession on October 3, 1928. On June 13, 1929, in this same convent, Our Lady came to ask her for the Consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart. . Let Sister Lucia describe this new and splendid vision to us [1] :
      “  I had asked for and obtained permission from my Superiors and my confessor to hold a Holy Hour, from eleven o'clock to midnight, on the night of Thursday to Friday. Finding myself thus alone, one night… the only light was that of the lamp (of the Most Blessed Sacrament) . Suddenly, the whole chapel was illuminated with a supernatural light, and on the altar appeared a cross of light, which rose to the ceiling. In a brighter light, we saw, on the upper part of the cross, the figure of a man, whose body we saw up to the belt, on his chest a dove, equally luminous and, nailed to the cross, another man's body. A little below the belt (of this one), suspended in the air, one saw a chalice and a large host, on which fell some drops of blood, which flowed on the cheeks of the crucified and from a wound in the chest. Flowing over the host, these drops fell into the chalice.

      Under the right arm of the cross was Our Lady; it was Our Lady of Fatima, with her Immaculate Heart in her left hand, without sword, nor roses, but with a crown of thorns and flames.

      Under the left arm of the cross, large letters, as of crystalline water which would have flowed above the altar, formed these words: “Grace and Mercy”. I understood that the mystery of the Most Holy Trinity had been shown to me, and I received lights on this mystery which I am not permitted to reveal.

      Then, Our Lady said to me: “The moment has come when God asks the Holy Father to make, in union with all the bishops of the world, the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart. He promises to save her by this means.
      There are so many souls whom the justice of God condemns for sins committed against me, that I come to ask for reparation. Sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray. »
      The conditions of this Consecration of Russia are clear: that the pope consecrates Russia in particular and not the world in general and in union, at least morally, with the bishops of the whole world.
      On several occasions [2] , Sister Lucy recalled these sine qua non conditions .

        • During an interview with Fr. Jongen, in Tuy, on February 3, 1946: “The Blessed Virgin asks for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, by the Pope, in union with all the bishops of the world”. “Did she not speak of the consecration of the world? " " No ".
        • Fr. Mac Glynn, in February 1947, heard Sister Lucia forcefully repeat this specific request: “No! No ! Not the world! Russia, Russia!
        • After the act of offering carried out on May 13, 1982 by John-Paul II, the visionary pointed out that Russia had not been the object of the consecration. Now, God wanted “the consecration of Russia and of Russia alone, without any addition”.
        • In a letter addressed to Fr. Umberto Pasquale, dated April 13, 1980, she writes: “  Our Lady at Fatima, in her request, refers only to the consecration of Russia  ”: “só se referece a consagração da Russia  ”, as we can read below:
        • In the two letters she wrote to Fr. Gonçalves, in May 1930, Sister Lucia specifies: “The Good Lord promises to put an end to the persecution in Russia, if the Holy Father deigns to do so, and orders [3 ] of the Catholic world also to make a solemn and public act of reparation and consecration of Russia".
      I still hear the dear and indefatigable [4] Abbé Caillon tell me with emotion in the 1980s: “No , no Russia is still not consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary  ”! We recognize all the same that the realization of these two conditions: consecration of Russia alone and the moral union of the Pope with the bishops, does not exceed human forces! However, Our Lady's request is still not fulfilled, as evidenced by this small painting: [/list]

      • Dans les deux lettres qu’elle écrivit au P. Gonçalves, en mai 1930, Sœur Lucie précise : « Le Bon Dieu promet de mettre fin à la persécution en Russie, si le Saint-Père daigne faire, et ordonne [3] aux évêques du monde catholique de faire également, un acte solennel et public de réparation et de consécration de la Russie ».
      J’entends encore le cher et infatigable [4] abbé Caillon me dire avec émotion dans les années 1980 : « Non, non la Russie n’est toujours pas consacrée au Cœur Immaculé de Marie » ! Reconnaissons tout de même que la réalisation de ces deux conditions : consécration de la seule Russie et l’union morale du Pape avec les évêques, ne dépasse pas les forces humaines ! Pourtant, la demande de Notre Dame n’est toujours pas accomplie, comme en témoigne ce petit tableau :
      PapeAnnéeConsécrationRussieSolennellementAvec les
      évêques
      Pie XI
      Pie XII1942OuiMondeOuiNon
      Pie XII1952OuiOuiNonNon
      Jean XXIII
      Paul VI1964Oui MondeOuiNon
      Jean-Paul Ier
      Jean-Paul II1982OffrandeMondeOuiNon
      Jean-Paul II1984OuiMonde…OuiNon
      Benoît XVI2010OuiLes prêtresOuiNon
      François2013OuiMondeOuiNon

      must be admitted, with Brother François de Marie des Anges [5] , that the consecration made by Pius XII in 1942 was not without fruit: "  It is remarkable that the months which followed this solemn act marked the true turning point of the war that was coming to an end  ". But at the same time, Stalin's communism was gaining in power and in 1945 several nations would be its victims.
      In August 1931, at Rianjo, Our Lord addressed these terrible words to Sister Lucia: "  Let my ministers know, given that they are following the example of the King of France [6] by delaying the execution of my request, that they will follow him into misfortune. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia, but it will be late .
      An objection perhaps comes to mind, dear reader: is not Russia now saved from communism? Wasn't the Berlin Wall destroyed? Hasn't Russian religious practice come out of hiding? President Putin, it is said, follows an annual retreat in an Orthodox monastery! We are no longer in the time of Lenin or Stalin!
      Yes, but is Russia Catholic? Didn't the collapse of the Berlin Wall also allow Western decadence and Protestant sects to penetrate Russia?
      There is nevertheless hope, because in our days there has appeared in Russia a strong, coherent and respected power, if not feared by other nations, which can only favor the marvelous fruits of the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart such as Our Lady of Fatima asked for it! Russia will then officially convert to the Catholic religion and will become a model Christian nation.
      When Fr. Alonso questioned Sister Lucy on the word of Our Lord the Pope will consecrate Russia but it will be late , the seer told him that "  the consecration of Russia and also the final triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary which will follow are absolutely certain and will be realized in spite of all obstacles  ”.


      Source : Fatima, le message pour notre temps, éditions de Chiré.
      Notes de bas de page
      • Mémoires, Appendice n° 2.[]
      • Frère François de Marie des Anges : Fatima, joie intime, événement mondial – Edition CRC, 2e édition revue et corrigée en décembre 1993. Cité par l’abbé Fabrice Delestre sur le site de La Porte Latine.[]
      • Ce qui peut signifier que le Ciel accueillerait favorablement cette consécration même si l’autorité papale était très amoindrie.[]
      • Le lecteur consultera avec profit l’ouvrage du Frère François de Marie des Anges, op. cit., qui rapporte avec quelle persévérance l’abbé Caillon a œuvré pour cette consécration, jusqu’à entrer plusieurs fois en contact avec le pape.[]
      • Op. cit. p. 250.[]
      • On June 17, 1689, Louis XIV refused to consecrate his kingdom to the Sacred Heart of Jesus as Saint Marguerite-Marie had asked him on behalf of Our Lord. As Brother François de Marie des Anges observes (op. cit. p. 217), on June 17, 1789, exactly a century later, the insurgent Third Estate proclaimed itself a Constituent Assembly, thus overthrowing the Monarchy. This was the beginning of the French Revolution with its doctrine of the Rights of Man without God and its atrocities against the Church…  [ ]
      Sorry I can't seem to get the whole google translation to come out right.  Just trying to docuмent in case it does disappear.