Author Topic: Resistance Split (Read 27261 times)

Pete Vere · « **Reply #75 on:** January 04, 2015, 12:46:44 AM »

Quote from: Nobody

I have never witnessed any post of yours that is positive about any Traditional Catholic group, be it SV or R&R.

Well that is a big change over last year when most of CathInfo were accusing me of being a thinly-closeted sede.

ggreg · « **Reply #76 on:** January 04, 2015, 05:51:30 AM »

Quote from: Pete Vere

Quote from: ggreg

To some extent the SSPX are to blame for this. If they had a parliament and sorted out these grievances earlier they would suffer less of these blow ups.

Interesting. How do you think the SSPX is suffering from these blowups?

If anything, I feel the opposite is true. The SSPX have thus far experienced relatively few defections to the Resistance, speaking numerically.

Moreover, these blowups have for the most part pitted Resistance faction against Resistance faction, reinforcing SSPX critiques of their former confreres among the Resistance.

They suffer in various ways. When I say "these blow ups" I mean a number of blow ups which over the years can be blamed on a lack of transparency and fairness and a forum where priests can get a fair hearing.

The resistance is not the only split. The SSPX have lost a good number of priests over the years who have gone on to be successful independents or reliable FSSP priests. Some of the best FSSP priests I know of are SSPX trained. Add up all of the departures and it is not an insignificant number.

With the benefit of hindsight it was an absurd move for Fellay to negotiate with B16 given what transpired and given the total git who occupies the papal seat today. Had a deal been done it would have been a total disaster and I think we can be certain that with B16 scampering off to his retirement, Francis would have thrown them under a bus.

There is definitely a very catty, effeminate attitude among the clergy on both sides of the divide. They could both do with being more pragmatic.

Being an autocrat only works if you are a first class autocrat and very skilled at decision making and leadership. Neither a Fellay, nor Williamson and certainly not Fr. Pfeiffer have those sorts of leadership skills. So they would be better off getting together to make decisions by consensus and having more openness and transparency. It would cause less suspicion and lack of trust.

ggreg · « **Reply #77 on:** January 04, 2015, 05:53:25 AM »

Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant

This thread sounds like some of you are actually trying to deepen the existing fractures in the resistance as well as manufacture any new ones you can."CathInfo is the de-facto discussion headquarters for the Resistance, which it officially supports." It has been starting to feel less resistance-friendly in the past months, imo.

Some people find their decisions are swayed by reality.

peterp · « **Reply #78 on:** January 05, 2015, 03:57:52 PM »

Quote from: Pete Vere

Quote from: ggreg
This was entirely predictable.

It is what commonly happens when you get a bunch of hotheads together in a state of rebellion.

No to sound as cynical as you ggreg, but how long do you give before Fr Pfeiffer does a complete 180 on sedevacantism OR seeks episcopal consecration from an independent bishop of Old Catholic lineage?

I see it as their only solution; whether it be Old Catholic/Polish National Church/Orthodox/Thuc line - ironically one of those groups not in "full communion" - Bp. Williamson will not consecrate them a bishop.

peterp · « **Reply #79 on:** January 05, 2015, 04:49:11 PM »

Quote from: Adolphus

Quote from: peterp
Quote from: Nobody

None of the unemployed I know in the resistance are unemployed because they are losers, but rather because they have chosen not to be corrupted by the world.

Actually, in England this is fairly accurate. Those enamored of Bp. Williamson – subscribe to all his conspiracy theories, and more – also follow Alex Jones and the like. And the world is going to end tomorrow so why bother getting a job, settling down, having a family etc. we’re in the “end times”, nothing can be saved. It’s over – even for those entering the seminary.

I know people who think like this. Who behave like this. But this is no way to live your life. Literally, people’s lives are wasting away because of who they are following.

While there may be people who believe Bp. Williamson’s theories just because it is him who tell them, there are others who believe in such theories after an analysis and do not follow blindly the bishop.

For your informations, Bp. Williamson does not say the world is going to end tomorrow. In fact, he says the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary has to happen before the Antichrist and therefore before the end of the world. I disagree in this with him, however it proves that you are wrong when you accuse the bishop of preaching the end of the world to happen tomorrow.

You don’t believe in Bp. Williamson’s theories. Fine! They are not dogmas. If you don’t want others to believe in them, you just have to prove they are false.

You are wrong the bishop is followed just as much for his secular views. He said it is chaos from now on in and learn to live without a priest, references to the end times. And that is how some live their lives, the end is just round the corner so why bother.

He said "God put into men's hands the Protocols of the Sages of Sion", so he IS claiming this to be Divine Revelation for goodness sake! Well I deny this and say they're a forgery. I am denying the word of God, apparently ...

Bishop Williamson is, in a way, no different from a NO bishop: religious liberty, collegiality, dignity of man are their dogmas; "911 was an inside job", the protocols, conspiracy theories, etc. are Bishop Williamson's dogmas.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #80 on:** January 05, 2015, 05:34:22 PM »

peterp:

Quote

He (+W) said "God put into men's hands the Protocols of the Sages of Sion", so he IS claiming this to be Divine Revelation for goodness sake! Well I deny this and say they're a forgery. I am denying the word of God, apparently ...

Bishop Williamson is, in a way, no different from a NO bishop: religious liberty, collegiality, dignity of man are their dogmas; "911 was an inside job", the protocols, conspiracy theories, etc. are Bishop Williamson's dogmas.

I am very happy when a person like peterp will come out and fully display his colors. I have never cared to be identified with peterp anyway, for reasons that may have been somewhat vague formerly. But now he has helped me to make a firmer assessment of my once inchoate feelings about him. I look upon him now, and all other (traditional?) Catholics like him, with utter contempt.

AJNC · « **Reply #81 on:** January 06, 2015, 08:47:34 AM »

Puzzling. In at least two places in India where the Resistance (SSPX-MC) priests say Mass, the lay organizers attend SSPX Masses when they dont have a Resistance Mass. In fact in one of these locations, I feel the Resistance schedule has been so arranged so as to avoid a clash with the SSPX on the one hand, and on the other, to allow Resistance supporters to have Mass every Sunday; two a month from their own Resistance priest and two from the SSPX.

Centroamerica · « **Reply #82 on:** January 06, 2015, 09:31:09 AM »

Quote from: AJNC

Puzzling. In at least two places in India where the Resistance (SSPX-MC) priests say Mass, the lay organizers attend SSPX Masses when they dont have a Resistance Mass. In fact in one of these locations, I feel the Resistance schedule has been so arranged so as to avoid a clash with the SSPX on the one hand, and on the other, to allow Resistance supporters to have Mass every Sunday; two a month from their own Resistance priest and two from the SSPX.

This has occurred with other groups in the past.

AJNC · « **Reply #83 on:** January 06, 2015, 09:48:36 AM »

Quote from: Centroamerica

Quote from: AJNC
Puzzling. In at least two places in India where the Resistance (SSPX-MC) priests say Mass, the lay organizers attend SSPX Masses when they dont have a Resistance Mass. In fact in one of these locations, I feel the Resistance schedule has been so arranged so as to avoid a clash with the SSPX on the one hand, and on the other, to allow Resistance supporters to have Mass every Sunday; two a month from their own Resistance priest and two from the SSPX.

This has occurred with other groups in the past.

If this really is a major blowout then I wonder how it will affect Fr Francois Chazal also of the SSPX-MC. He used to be an avid Williamsonite.

Wessex · « **Reply #84 on:** January 06, 2015, 10:33:03 AM »

I suppose trads have been given the freedom to think about and explore their religion without having particular priests, bishops and popes do it for them. They can do this while experiencing the world in which they live; they know of no other world. And the trads I know are certainly chapel-hopping in search of that very elusive holy grail. Other Christians, too. Travelling to a selection of Sunday venues is not unique to Catholics unhappy with Rome.

Revivalist tendencies do give rise to choosing between those preachers that inspire and make us want more. No longer are we to be bound by mechanical purveyors of centrally prepared scripts in the belief that the Almighty will be pleased. Vatican 2 was a god-send because it separated the zombies from those that want meaning from the culture. One does not need a degree in psychology to know that most people ate fakes and are just going through the motions.

So, enjoy this dynamism within tradition; disagreements do make us think and consider alternatives. In my time the arguments have moved from the Latin Mass to matters of doctrine. Now, we are coming to the conclusion that the structure of an institution can get in the way of pursuing the faith. A church without priests and bishops (never mind a pope!) is being talked about and the void is being filled somehow. Austerity does have its advantages and excites the inventive spirit. God helps those that help .......

Centroamerica · « **Reply #85 on:** January 06, 2015, 11:14:20 AM »

Quote from: Wessex

A church without priests and bishops (never mind a pope!) is being talked about and the void is being filled somehow......

Yeah, I think it's called Protestantism.

Cantarella · « **Reply #86 on:** January 06, 2015, 11:48:33 AM »

Quote from: Centroamerica

Quote from: Wessex
A church without priests and bishops (never mind a pope!) is being talked about and the void is being filled somehow......

Yeah, I think it's called Protestantism.

Or Sedevacantism.