Author Topic: Resistance Split (Read 27277 times)

Centroamerica · « **Reply #30 on:** December 30, 2014, 11:26:10 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

Depends where you are, I guess, but I know many an unemployed resistance member.

Small Groups as Complex Systems: Formation, Coordination, Development, and ...
By Holly Arrow, Joseph E. McGrath, Jennifer L. Berdahl is a good book on group dynamics.

Also worth listening to a 2013 podcast by Dan Carlin on the Anabaptists which has a LOT of close parallels. I think it is called Hardcore History number 48.

I was hesitant to comment because I was un sure if you meant spiritually or materially. Materially here the resistance seems to be doing very well what with several schools, two monasteries, dozens of chapels and vehicles as well as several groups of sisters. In fact, they seem to be very well.

Bishop Williamson was just able to purchase a pretty nice house I hear so I don't think you could say that he is living on subsistence. Not hardly. They just finished or are finishing a new monastery in Colombia with Fr. Arrizaga OSB. There's at least two priest in Latin America who are also lawyers. Fr. Altamira managed to take the majority of his priory and faithful with him this year when he joined the resistance. I mean, honestly, every resistance priest that I know is doing very well, so unless you explain a little further what you mean, it just looks like more slander coming from people who have nothing better to do but long in here to write childish rap songs making up lies about decent and devoted priests.

Not a very honorable thing to say the very least.

Nobody · « **Reply #31 on:** December 30, 2014, 12:57:12 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

Depends where you are, I guess, but I know many an unemployed resistance member.

Sounds like yet another cheap comment, implying it's only the losers who join the resistance..

..how about putting it like this instead :

Quote

I know many rich, successful but wordly SSPX members, who look down upon those who dare to dress modestly, homeschool, live simply and even leave their spiritual comfort zone, thinking they are fleeing modernism and therefore fighting God's fight.

None of the unemployed I know in the resistance are unemployed because they are losers, but rather because they have chosen not to be corrupted by the world.

Matthew 16:25 "For he that will save his life, shall lose it: and he that shall lose his life for my sake, shall find it."

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #32 on:** December 30, 2014, 03:18:09 PM »

Most of our group were blue collar workers. Truck driver, farmer, construction, computer repair guy etc. Really nice people too.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #33 on:** December 30, 2014, 03:29:15 PM »

When you look down on any people, you look down on Jesus.

peterp · « **Reply #34 on:** December 30, 2014, 05:33:06 PM »

Quote from: Nobody

None of the unemployed I know in the resistance are unemployed because they are losers, but rather because they have chosen not to be corrupted by the world.

Actually, in England this is fairly accurate. Those enamored of Bp. Williamson – subscribe to all his conspiracy theories, and more – also follow Alex Jones and the like. And the world is going to end tomorrow so why bother getting a job, settling down, having a family etc. we’re in the “end times”, nothing can be saved. It’s over – even for those entering the seminary.

I know people who think like this. Who behave like this. But this is no way to live your life. Literally, people’s lives are wasting away because of who they are following.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #35 on:** December 30, 2014, 05:56:02 PM »

peterp:

Quote

Actually, in England this is fairly accurate. Those enamored of Bp. Williamson – subscribe to all his conspiracy theories, and more – also follow Alex Jones and the like. And the world is going to end tomorrow so why bother getting a job, settling down, having a family etc. we’re in the “end times”, nothing can be saved. It’s over – even for those entering the seminary.

I know people who think like this. Who behave like this. But this is no way to live your life. Literally, people’s lives are wasting away because of who they are following.

I like to know something of the background of people who blithely express this kind of drivel. Who is peterp? Is he sspx? Is he a "resistance" advocate? Is he even a Catholic? Has he, perhaps, had a run-in with the good bishop at one time, and is he now trying to get even? What percentage of Williamson followers would fit this description in peterp's estimation. It's not that we have much solid data to work with. But according to peterp most folowers of Bp. W. have no families and no jobs. They sit around waiting for the end to come and pay a lot of attention to Alex Jones. Yeah, peterp, just who the hell are you? Or will you continue taking refuge in cowardly anonymity? :ready-to-eat:

Adolphus · « **Reply #36 on:** December 30, 2014, 06:13:03 PM »

Quote from: peterp

Quote from: Nobody

None of the unemployed I know in the resistance are unemployed because they are losers, but rather because they have chosen not to be corrupted by the world.

Actually, in England this is fairly accurate. Those enamored of Bp. Williamson – subscribe to all his conspiracy theories, and more – also follow Alex Jones and the like. And the world is going to end tomorrow so why bother getting a job, settling down, having a family etc. we’re in the “end times”, nothing can be saved. It’s over – even for those entering the seminary.

I know people who think like this. Who behave like this. But this is no way to live your life. Literally, people’s lives are wasting away because of who they are following.

While there may be people who believe Bp. Williamson’s theories just because it is him who tell them, there are others who believe in such theories after an analysis and do not follow blindly the bishop.

For your informations, Bp. Williamson does not say the world is going to end tomorrow. In fact, he says the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary has to happen before the Antichrist and therefore before the end of the world. I disagree in this with him, however it proves that you are wrong when you accuse the bishop of preaching the end of the world to happen tomorrow.

You don’t believe in Bp. Williamson’s theories. Fine! They are not dogmas. If you don’t want others to believe in them, you just have to prove they are false.

Adolphus · « **Reply #37 on:** December 30, 2014, 06:35:00 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

Is Bishop Williamson officially in the resistance?

Last I heard, his advice was for Trads to frequent SSPX masses, short of being able to attend a resistance mass which of course more than 95 percent of Trads cannot reasonably do.

The house appears pretty divided against itself, doesn't it?

What officially is the structure? It appears more confusing to me than the various groups of Islamic terror cells.

Was St. Athanasius officially in the resistance. No, there was nothing officially instituted as a resistance.

The very same can be said today: There is nothing officially instituted as a resistance. And in today’s case, the so-called resistance is not a true resistance, since those who are considered part of it do not have to resist Bp. Fellay’s betrayal once they are not subordinated to him.

«The house appears pretty divided against itself, doesn't it?»

Which house are you referring to? The modernist “conciliar” church certainly is pretty divided against itself.

“Traditionalism” has always been divided according to the biblical words: “I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be dispersed.”

hollingsworth · « **Reply #38 on:** December 30, 2014, 06:41:10 PM »

adolphus:

Quote

You don’t believe in Bp. Williamson’s theories. Fine! They are not dogmas. If you don’t want others to believe in them, you just have to prove they are false.

That's the problem, adolphus. Peterp and his ilk do not have to prove anything. Perhaps in a passing mood of airy insouciance, brought about maybe by a bit too much Holiday cheer, he simply sits down and types something off the tops of his head. Please don't ask peterp to engage his intellect by attempting to prove anything. He's not about to do that. Furthermore, he's not equipped to do that. He's simply another mindless, frustrated, anti-Williamson poster who needs to let off a little steam. Happy New Year, peterp.

Adolphus · « **Reply #39 on:** December 30, 2014, 07:16:10 PM »

Quote from: hollingsworth

adolphus:
Quote
You don’t believe in Bp. Williamson’s theories. Fine! They are not dogmas. If you don’t want others to believe in them, you just have to prove they are false.

That's the problem, adolphus. Peterp and his ilk do not have to prove anything. Perhaps in a passing mood of airy insouciance, brought about maybe by a bit too much Holiday cheer, he simply sits down and types something off the tops of his head. Please don't ask peterp to engage his intellect by attempting to prove anything. He's not about to do that. Furthermore, he's not equipped to do that. He's simply another mindless, frustrated, anti-Williamson poster who needs to let off a little steam. Happy New Year, peterp.

That was exactly my point: if he criticises just for the sake of criticise, then he should be ignored and even banned. I am not against those I disagree with or those who disagree with me, as long as they present reasonable arguments, but those who just post to criticise are nothing else but trolls.

Nobody · « **Reply #40 on:** December 30, 2014, 07:34:28 PM »

Quote from: peterp

Quote from: Nobody

None of the unemployed I know in the resistance are unemployed because they are losers, but rather because they have chosen not to be corrupted by the world.

Actually, in England this is fairly accurate. Those enamored of Bp. Williamson – subscribe to all his conspiracy theories, and more – also follow Alex Jones and the like. And the world is going to end tomorrow so why bother getting a job, settling down, having a family etc. we’re in the “end times”, nothing can be saved. It’s over – even for those entering the seminary.

I know people who think like this. Who behave like this. But this is no way to live your life. Literally, people’s lives are wasting away because of who they are following.

The mindset you claim to observe in England has nothing to do with the people I referred to. In our Chapel (and I suspect in most Chapels), there are two distinct classes of people : the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. And the 'haves' usually fit into the world very well with regards to modesty, music, movies, academics, socials, two incomes,.. while the 'have nots' are usually homeschoolers, country bumpkins, modest and struggling in many ways.

The 'haves' tend to look upon the 'have nots' as antisocial losers, which is what the post I commented on was trying to insinuate as well regarding the resistance. I usually take that kind of remark as a compliment, knowing what type of people this is coming from.

And yes, surprise, surprise,.. it seems to be this kind of 'losers' who are making up the majority of the resistance here. But I wonder who are the real losers ?

Croixalist · « **Reply #41 on:** December 30, 2014, 11:23:38 PM »

His Eminence made the cardinal sin of saying there's "more than one way" to have a resistance. He's obviously* trying to recant all his views and secretly selling out the Marian Corps to Fellay, and will eventually force everyone to accept everything he has to say about anything.

*clearly not

Centroamerica · « **Reply #42 on:** December 31, 2014, 05:45:18 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

Quote from: Adolphus

The very same can be said today: There is nothing officially instituted as a resistance. And in today’s case, the so-called resistance is not a true resistance, since those who are considered part of it do not have to resist Bp. Fellay’s betrayal once they are not subordinated to him.

Then how can this, or any other website, be the "official home" of the unofficial resistance?

Don't you need an official resistance first?

So now he has resulted to attacking the entire existence of the forum in general and any other possible websites with semantical arguments.

Haha

Wessex · « **Reply #43 on:** December 31, 2014, 06:14:04 AM »

Quote from: Croixalist

His Eminence made the cardinal sin of saying there's "more than one way" to have a resistance. He's obviously* trying to recant all his views and secretly selling out the Marian Corps to Fellay, and will eventually force everyone to accept everything he has to say about anything.
*clearly not

The loose association does allow a certain amount of flexibility and some parts will be more successful and dynamic than others. In terms of any residual allegiance to modern Rome, some will be firmly una cuм, others non una cuм and all stations between. Problems that plagued the SSPX have appeared in the Resistance.

Two years have cleared the muddy waters somewhat of those hostile towards Menzingen and thrown up a number of distinct positions which may or may not coalesce. Fr. Pfeiffer has worked hard to put together a network of apostolates based on hardline Lefebvrism and has invoked the spirit of the 70s and 80s when the Society was expanding. It was though working with a generation that had known the old religion and was better placed to replicate it. Today, Fr. P's priests are lecturing over and over again to a new generation, hoping they shed their modern ways and fully appreciate the treasure that is being lost. Can they recapture that mood and is there still a hunger there?

Bp. Williamson on the other hand seems more laid back and is obviously licking his wounds after losing high office. He is inclining to the view that all structures and institutions are flawed and it is therefore pointless creating more. What more proof do we need seeing the disintegration of the mainstream church and organised tradition! We have become merely salvage
collectors and unwitting partners in their demise!

Clearly, if you are looking for an inspiration leader that is not wired up to persistent negativity and doom, Bp. W is not your man. We all know what is wrong; ABL wrote that particular catechism. We see it in front of our eyes without the aid of ancient prophesy. But some of us are thirsting for a more constructive script. Maybe tradition needs another positive counter-reformation that today's folk can instinctively take onboard. Rummaging through the ruins is not going to do it. Hopefully, 2015 will produce an answer.

Croixalist · « **Reply #44 on:** December 31, 2014, 08:22:29 AM »

Quote from: Wessex

Quote from: Croixalist
His Eminence made the cardinal sin of saying there's "more than one way" to have a resistance. He's obviously* trying to recant all his views and secretly selling out the Marian Corps to Fellay, and will eventually force everyone to accept everything he has to say about anything.
*clearly not

The loose association does allow a certain amount of flexibility and some parts will be more successful and dynamic than others. In terms of any residual allegiance to modern Rome, some will be firmly una cuм, others non una cuм and all stations between. Problems that plagued the SSPX have appeared in the Resistance.

Two years have cleared the muddy waters somewhat of those hostile towards Menzingen and thrown up a number of distinct positions which may or may not coalesce. Fr. Pfeiffer has worked hard to put together a network of apostolates based on hardline Lefebvrism and has invoked the spirit of the 70s and 80s when the Society was expanding. It was though working with a generation that had known the old religion and was better placed to replicate it. Today, Fr. P's priests are lecturing over and over again to a new generation, hoping they shed their modern ways and fully appreciate the treasure that is being lost. Can they recapture that mood and is there still a hunger there?

Bp. Williamson on the other hand seems more laid back and is obviously licking his wounds after losing high office. He is inclining to the view that all structures and institutions are flawed and it is therefore pointless creating more. What more proof do we need seeing the disintegration of the mainstream church and organised tradition! We have become merely salvage
collectors and unwitting partners in their demise!

Clearly, if you are looking for an inspiration leader that is not wired up to persistent negativity and doom, Bp. W is not your man. We all know what is wrong; ABL wrote that particular catechism. We see it in front of our eyes without the aid of ancient prophesy. But some of us are thirsting for a more constructive script. Maybe tradition needs another positive counter-reformation that today's folk can instinctively take onboard. Rummaging through the ruins is not going to do it. Hopefully, 2015 will produce an answer.

By not attending to the fundamentals of the spiritual life, particularly charity and self denial (the first resistance), F.Pf embodies Vatican II more than anyone else in the SSPX MC. We must all be harbingers of doom to a degree as we know the justice of God cannot be avoided, only delayed. The kind of negativity I'm speaking about relates to the way men relate to each other, building up or tearing down unwanted structures in thought, deed and spirit.

If F.Pf ever once considered the great structures of well formed spirituality and thought already established in the souls of F.Zen and B.W for example, he would never hazard a move to excoriate them publicly over what is essentially a disagreement about how much SSPX is polluted by Fellay and his cadre of henchmen. I can tell you right now there are fantastic priests within the society today and now that Fellay has been stymied by the resistance movement, it has given those priests and laity a reprieve from the specter of Vat II acknowledgement. There's no telling when or if the other boot will drop, but we all know what to look for now and where to look for it.