Author Topic: Resistance Priory brings Red Lighters (Read 16449 times)

Matthew · « **on:** December 29, 2013, 06:55:57 PM »

Ok, Ecclesia, this post's for you.

I found one of the old posts about the Red Light/Yellow Light debate.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Fr-David-Hewko-Says-No-to-Neo-SSPX-Masses

I found that you started this particular one.

I also noticed your sigline -- "SSPX Marian Corps -- Toronto".

Toronto.

That's a very well established Resistance center if I'm not mistaken, which is on the "shortlist" of what places get Mass frequently (1-2 times a month). Let's put it this way -- your chapel was one of 5 places to have a Resistance Mass on Christmas Day!

Meanwhile, the Recusant is also in this very vocal Red Lighter group. Let's see -- maybe that has something to do with the fact that he assists at Masses said by Bishop Williamson on a regular basis. He gets weekly Mass, if not daily Mass!

I'm seeing a pattern here.

Those who live near the pseudo-Priories of the Resistance are quick to "ditch" the SSPX and "move on". And why not? I'd do the same thing if I were in their shoes.

But what I would *not* do is judge my fellow-Catholics who don't have it so good.

It's great that you guys have regular Mass from Resistance-aligned priests -- but don't look down and judge the rest of us who are trying to take care of our families spiritually. Perhaps we could maintain our childrens' Faith, etc. if we could count on 2 Masses a month from a Resistance priest. Maybe even 1 Mass per month!

But, Mr. First Worlder, let me tell you what it's like in the Third World (of Tradition). Having Mass once every THREE MONTHS is a pleasant surprise out here. Some places it's even more rare, and other places still haven't gathered enough people/resources to have one of the Fathers come out even once.

The Church put a burden on Catholics of attending Mass every Sunday for a reason. If the Church thought 1 Mass a year, or 1 Mass every 6 months were enough to nourish our souls, She would have crafted a different rule.

I'm not placing the blame on Fr. Pfeiffer or any other Resistance priest. I'm just stating facts. The Resistance can't provide Mass to a large number of traditional Catholics, and I'm talking about traditional Catholics who are interested in supporting the Resistance. Since that's the case, then no one should be surprised that plenty of Resistance supporters don't "Red light" the SSPX.

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2013, 07:04:26 PM »

I'm reminded of a certain meme, "First-World Problems"

Here are a couple samples:

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2013, 07:19:08 PM »

But here's one that gets to the heart of the issue:

Frances · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2013, 07:36:16 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

I'm seeing a pattern here.

Those who live near the pseudo-Priories of the Resistance are quick to "ditch" the SSPX and "move on". And why not? I'd do the same thing if I were in their shoes.

But what I would *not* do is judge my fellow-Catholics who don't have it so good.

It's great that you guys have regular Mass from Resistance-aligned priests -- but don't look down and judge the rest of us...

:dancing-banana:
A while back, I attempted to make a poll demonstrating this for a fact. I was more or less personally attacked as lacking a spine, so I let the matter drop. In order to hear a Resistance Mass, I must drive a minimum of 90 miles one way. If I stick to this most convenient location, I have Mass once every other month. There are two other locations, 134 miles and 177 miles respectively. That is if I'm driving from my home. The last location has Mass most frequently, however, due to the time of Mass and fact that the driving is in one of the most congested area of the U.S., it costs me approximately $85 in gas and tolls and requires me to work a 14 hour day on 2-3 hours of "sleep" in my car while parked on a NYC street.
I opted for Christmas Mass at the SSPX although there was Resistance Mass available at location #2. In order for me to have attended AND fulfill family and work obligations, my schedule would have been thus, 1) Drive 85 miles to my cousin's home on Christmas Eve day. 2) Leave from there and drive 220 miles to midnight Mass, 3) leave Mass and drive 235 miles to my sister's home. 4) Cook brunch for 16 people, open gifts, entertain guests until about 10:00pm. 5). Clean up. 6) Drive 85 miles. Get maybe 3-4 hours rest in my car. 7) Go to my side job at 9:30 am and work until 5:00. If still among the living, #8 would probably involve Last Rites! So, I went to Christmas Mass at the SSPX. If anyone has a problem with that, oh well!

p.s. What is meant by "pseudo-priories?" The only Resistance priory in the US is located in Kentucky, about 900 miles away! The others are in Canada, Philippines, London, Mexico, Brazil, Germany, maybe India and France. I won't be driving to any of these with the possible exception of Fr. Giruouard in Canada!

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2013, 07:55:44 PM »

By pseudo-priories I mean the main arteries, the most well-established of places, the places that get Mass the most frequently of all Resistance Mass centers.

A Mass center in the Resistance that has Mass once a month or more is the equivalent of an SSPX Priory that offers daily Mass.

Once a month might not sound like much, but in the Resistance that's about as good as it gets -- the equivalent of daily Mass!

Matthew · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2013, 07:58:53 PM »

Quote from: Frances

Quote from: Matthew

I'm seeing a pattern here.

Those who live near the pseudo-Priories of the Resistance are quick to "ditch" the SSPX and "move on". And why not? I'd do the same thing if I were in their shoes.

But what I would *not* do is judge my fellow-Catholics who don't have it so good.

It's great that you guys have regular Mass from Resistance-aligned priests -- but don't look down and judge the rest of us...

:dancing-banana:
A while back, I attempted to make a poll demonstrating this for a fact. I was more or less personally attacked as lacking a spine, so I let the matter drop. In order to hear a Resistance Mass, I must drive a minimum of 90 miles one way. If I stick to this most convenient location, I have Mass once every other month. There are two other locations, 134 miles and 177 miles respectively. That is if I'm driving from my home. The last location has Mass most frequently, however, due to the time of Mass and fact that the driving is in one of the most congested area of the U.S., it costs me approximately $85 in gas and tolls and requires me to work a 14 hour day on 2-3 hours of "sleep" in my car while parked on a NYC street.
I opted for Christmas Mass at the SSPX although there was Resistance Mass available at location #2. In order for me to have attended AND fulfill family and work obligations, my schedule would have been thus, 1) Drive 85 miles to my cousin's home on Christmas Eve day. 2) Leave from there and drive 220 miles to midnight Mass, 3) leave Mass and drive 235 miles to my sister's home. 4) Cook brunch for 16 people, open gifts, entertain guests until about 10:00pm. 5). Clean up. 6) Drive 85 miles. Get maybe 3-4 hours rest in my car. 7) Go to my side job at 9:30 am and work until 5:00. If still among the living, #8 would probably involve Last Rites! So, I went to Christmas Mass at the SSPX. If anyone has a problem with that, oh well!

As bad as your situation sounds (and IS) in terms of getting to a Resistance-aligned Mass center, the situation where I live is worse.

We couldn't drive to a Mass for love or money. Texas is a big state. It takes 6 hours of driving before you even leave Texas! And Texas doesn't have any well-taken-care-of Resistance centers.

You think driving 100 miles is bad -- try 500 miles!

Someone should put the Resistance centers on a map of the US -- I'm sure it would be interesting to see.

Matthew · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2013, 08:16:00 PM »

Did it for you.

Here is a map of the places that have had Mass within the past 2 months, according to the calendar page on "InThisSignYouShallConquer".

Interesting note: If I extend it to THREE months, I only have to add 3 more locations:

Davie, FL
Lemont, IL
New Hope, MN

Also note: Dallas, TX isn't exactly a hopping location; they last had Mass in September 2013 and then they had Mass last Monday.

But Dallas is 4 hours from me -- one way. Not gonna happen for a family of 7. Texas is a big state. Everything's bigger in Texas.

andysloan · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2013, 08:29:41 PM »

Dear Matthew:

The reason for Mass every Sunday:

Acts Of Apostles 20:7

"And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow: and he continued his speech until midnight."

1 Corinthians 16:2

"On the first day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him; that when I come, the collections be not then to be made."

The first day of the week in the Jєωιѕн calendar being Sunday. It is also the day when Christ arose, which makes it all the more fitting day for the grace of redemption to be applied to heal our sins:

1 Corinthians 15:17

"And if Christ be not risen again, your faith is vain, for you are yet in your sins."

Matthew · « **Reply #8 on:** December 29, 2013, 08:39:09 PM »

Here is a better map, showing 3 more groups of Mass centers

Blue -- Includes October
Green -- Includes September
Yellow -- Includes August

I also put in Vienna, VA since Fr. Ringrose is always there.

I could also put any other places in, if I've left anyone out.

But this map demonstrates just how many "holes" there are when it comes to availability of Mass/sacraments from Resistance priests.

NOTE: I'm not saying it's their fault. It's only Frs. Pfeiffer and Hewko doing most of the Mass circuits. 2 priests can only do so much.

My conclusion: Plenty of good-willed Catholics will have to attend SSPX chapels if they want to partake of Mass and the Sacraments, at least for now. And a corollary: those who have relatively frequent Mass shouldn't look down on those who don't have any. It's not because they're lazy or stupid, nor is it because they live in the middle of nowhere.

Mabel · « **Reply #9 on:** December 29, 2013, 08:48:17 PM »

That is a pretty sparse map.

I'm trying to understand this better. Most of the resistance centers seem to be in areas where there is a good traditional Catholic population, maybe with the exception of Kentucky. While I am glad they have a situation that is good for them, I can see that it must be hard for those who are not so close.

I know certain individuals are not welcome at certain chapels and some situations are just bad. I was wondering about those who can't/won't attend SSPX for whatever reason. Are there other alternatives such as reputable independent priests or other chapels that you attend instead of SSPX? Or is it pretty much Resistance first choice, SSPX second choice, with no third options? Do Resistance people go to other chapels besides SSPX as a second choice?

I guess I'm asking because when the situation is reversed and I can't get to my mass center of choice, I go to one of quite a few independent priests that I know or I go to SSPX after checking out the situation. (My issue is conditional ordinations, I also have a zero tolerance policy for cult-like mentalities or crazy situations, mostly this has been a problem at independent chapels, though).

There are a few traditional priests out there who are sort of free agents who are willing to help out, especially for individuals and families who are isolated from the sacraments. Do any such priests visit the Resistance people?

Charlotte NC Bill · « **Reply #10 on:** December 29, 2013, 08:49:39 PM »

If your group is ( unfortunately ) small you can't expect the priests to come regularly...The SSPXMC checks it's coffers and if they can afford to travel-they do..and, of course, they must concentrate on the larger pockets of the Holy Resistance...If anyone deserved to be resisted it's Bp Fellay, Fr. Pflueger, Fr. Nely and the Jaidhoffer Found money-man, the zionista we're all well-acquainted with, the Grimer Wormtongue straight fm the ѕуηαgσgυє of satan-Max Krah...

Matthew · « **Reply #11 on:** December 29, 2013, 08:59:54 PM »

Quote from: Mabel

That is a pretty sparse map.

I'm trying to understand this better. Most of the resistance centers seem to be in areas where there is a good traditional Catholic population, maybe with the exception of Kentucky. While I am glad they have a situation that is good for them, I can see that it must be hard for those who are not so close.

I know certain individuals are not welcome at certain chapels and some situations are just bad. I was wondering about those who can't/won't attend SSPX for whatever reason. Are there other alternatives such as reputable independent priests or other chapels that you attend instead of SSPX? Or is it pretty much Resistance first choice, SSPX second choice, with no third options? Do Resistance people go to other chapels besides SSPX as a second choice?

I guess I'm asking because when the situation is reversed and I can't get to my mass center of choice, I go to one of quite a few independent priests that I know or I go to SSPX after checking out the situation. (My issue is conditional ordinations, I also have a zero tolerance policy for cult-like mentalities or crazy situations, mostly this has been a problem at independent chapels, though).

There are a few traditional priests out there who are sort of free agents who are willing to help out, especially for individuals and families who are isolated from the sacraments. Do any such priests visit the Resistance people?

I think it varies by place.

Houston, TX is an SSPX priory. So is El Paso. But there is no established Resistance group or chapel in either!

I guess I have to take back what I said about Texans not being a bunch of limp-wristed, blindly obedient surrender monkeys.

Believe me, it's not pleasant to eat crow and have to take that back. I really hoped that Texans wouldn't turn out to be a bunch of cowards. And there really are some good, courageous Texans that are the exception -- but they are unfortunately not common enough!

Let's just say I'm very disappointed with Texas as a whole. I know it could do much, much better. But there are so many here that just want religion to be a convenient, familiar thing every Sunday morning, and they're not willing to risk anything, even for important principles.

They are overly attached to their comfort and their buildings.

BrJoseph · « **Reply #12 on:** December 29, 2013, 09:36:54 PM »

Matthew,

We (in Toronto) were granted a Christmas Mass because we were one of the first Resistance Centers and because we have stopped going to the SSPX (at least our core group has).

Despite your theories, we get Mass every 4-6 weeks usually with a few days notice.

We do not have an inside track or get special treatment. Father Pfeiffer does what he can, but it is a real balancing act. There are some places that seem to get Mass much for often than we do - does this give us a right to complain? I think not.

We have also made the commitment to support the Resistance, so it would seem logical that the Resistance should support us.

You have read our comments pertaining to why we stay away from the SSPX and have chosen a different route. Now you want special recognition.

Sorry, I see no reason to complain. We are grateful for what we get. You should be too.

Next Pentacost, after the latest Rosary Crusade, we may have more people who suddenly see the wisdom of staying away from the SSPX, for obvious reasons.

Then the Fathers will have even more requests than they can handle. Of course, more priests may then joing the Resistance, if we can trust them. Decisions will have to be made ...

Brother Joseph
SSPX-Marian Corps Toronto

Matthew · « **Reply #13 on:** December 29, 2013, 09:46:28 PM »

I knew I should have made that post. I should trust my instincts.

Here goes...

To clarify: My posts (above) were NOT a complaint about how often the Fathers come to my neck of the woods.

I was merely stating the fact that there are a lot of places that don't get Mass often or at all -- because of the very reasons you give (the Fathers are stretched thin, they can't go everywhere, they have to prioritize those with more people, etc.)

And therefore a huge portion of good Catholics (supporters of the Resistance) have no choice but to attend SSPX chapels, for the spiritual good of their families.

It's not like the Traditional Movement in general, where any region with lots of traditional Catholics has at least one or two options for Mass. No, with the Resistance you can live in a city with an SSPX priory or in a populated part of California, and still be out in the cold.

However, I disagree with you about which came first. I think the regular Masses came first, then the widespread "Red Lighting" came second. You claim the Red Lighting came first, then the Fathers came more often as a result.

Well I'm here to tell you it wouldn't make any difference for many locations -- the resources of the Fathers (money, time) doesn't grow/shrink in proportion to the # of people staying home from SSPX chapels.

Matthew · « **Reply #14 on:** December 29, 2013, 09:50:29 PM »

I'll respond to some of your points (my text in bold)

Despite your theories, we get Mass every 4-6 weeks usually with a few days notice.

What theories? All I stated were facts. Your chapel is one of the ones that gets frequent Mass, relative to other resistance Mass centers.

We do not have an inside track or get special treatment. Father Pfeiffer does what he can, but it is a real balancing act. There are some places that seem to get Mass much for often than we do - does this give us a right to complain? I think not.

I never said it did. I wasn't complaining.

We have also made the commitment to support the Resistance, so it would seem logical that the Resistance should support us.

You have read our comments pertaining to why we stay away from the SSPX and have chosen a different route. Now you want special recognition.

Who said anything about special recognition? You're mixing up my posts with some other random text.

Sorry, I see no reason to complain. We are grateful for what we get. You should be too.

I am very grateful for the Fathers' efforts and I never said anything to suggest otherwise. All I stated was the obvious -- the Fathers haven't managed to cover any significant part of the United States yet. That isn't their fault.

Next Pentacost, after the latest Rosary Crusade, we may have more people who suddenly see the wisdom of staying away from the SSPX, for obvious reasons.

Then the Fathers will have even more requests than they can handle. Of course, more priests may then joing the Resistance, if we can trust them. Decisions will have to be made ...

Brother Joseph
SSPX-Marian Corps Toronto