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Author Topic: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023  (Read 5958 times)

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Offline TheRealMcCoy

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Re: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2023, 06:17:32 PM »
A priest of the SAJM tells me that not a single priest of the SAJM collaborates with Bp. B and that there were no Dominicans from Avrillé at the January ordination.

I just checked the SAJM website for the current membership and you are correct.  I didn't know they were no longer members.  And I didn't say anyone from Avrille was there but looking over the photos they may not have even been Dominicans because I can't tell if they're wearing habits.  But they were French. 

Thank you for correcting me.  I won't say anymore on the topic.

Re: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2023, 07:10:55 PM »
Why shouldn't he ordain independent priests? Where is it written that he has to?

We are not the ordinary jurisdiction of the Church, nor should we pretend to be.

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The bottom line is that many clerics do not like independent priests because they can't control them. That lack of control terrifies them. So they feel they have to set up a parallel church to do that. Rather than accept the will of God for the situation we are in. They can't deal with their own insecurities. Clerics don't have to set up societies to be controlling btw. Insecure clerics exist among those independent. But that is for another discussion....
You nailed it. 


Offline Matthew

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Re: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2023, 09:18:14 PM »
The bottom line is that many clerics do not like independent priests because they can't control them. That lack of control terrifies them.

What about the Bishop's grave responsibility before God for the priests they ordain? How about you look at it from that angle?

When a bishop ordains a priest, that priest now has supernatural power and dignity. He is now a leader, a teacher, and a vital source of guidance, truth, and the sacraments for the Faithful. A rogue priest could do *great* damage, cause divisions, destroy souls, etc.

Consider that such grave power and responsibility is a SERIOUS temptation for any priest who isn't already in the Unitive way (the highest of the 3 stages of the Interior Life). Temptation to over-socialize with Faithful, temptation to take worldly "consolations" here and there, temptation to avarice, gluttony, sloth... pretty much all 7 of the capital sins. But as a priest, he has opportunities and doors opened to these vices that *aren't there* for the majority of the Faithful. He is in a special place of authority and revered by the Faithful. He is a special kind of guide, leader, and confidant. He hears confessions and gives spiritual direction. He has opportunities to fall with women (for example) that the average layman does not. He is a single man with lots of free time and usually above-average brain power; this can be a problem. A priest can go in any of a thousand directions. He can be an amateur scholar, a TV watcher, a gossip, a wine expert, a Chant expert/nerd, a modern day Don Bosco -- all sorts of things good, bad, and in-between. And Heaven help him if he hasn't conquered all his faults by the day of his ordination.

And let's keep a Catholic perspective: the devils target priests more than anyone else.

And then there's the simple fact that a bishop is responsible before God for every priest he ordains. I'm sure many good bishops have been taken off-guard over the years when they find out just who they ordained. God alone knows, and God is the Just Judge. But nevertheless, a bishop must do his due diligence.

Some measure of control over the priest he ordains is actually a good thing, a Catholic thing, and a traditional thing. The idea of "independent priests" is completely foreign to Catholic thought. Have you ever been to an ordination? Remember the part where the priest puts his hands inside the ordaining bishop's hands, and promises obedience?

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2023, 09:38:57 PM »

Quote
And then there's the simple fact that a bishop is responsible before God for every priest he ordains. I'm sure many good bishops have been taken off-guard over the years when they find out just who they ordained. God alone knows, and God is the Just Judge. But nevertheless, a bishop must do his due diligence.
This is true, but the bishop also has limited responsibility because he has no jurisdiction.  We're in the wild west days.  We're just trying to survive.  All of these "religious orders" aren't real orders because there's no real vows, because there's no real authority due to no real jurisdiction.  If a priest goes off the rails, there's nothing anyone can do.  See Fr Pfeiffer as a great example.  Fr P made some mistakes and no one can stop him.  And he alone should be blamed.  Any authority/control that Trad societies put in place isn't real.  These are the times we live in.


In the coming times of persecution, I'd rather have a situation where the govt can't track down all the priests by simply showing up to 2 or 3 "Trad Centers" and getting an address list.  It would be better if such things weren't "centralized" (and that's the advantage of +W's "independent" approach).  



Re: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2023, 10:02:17 PM »
In the coming times of persecution, I'd rather have a situation where the govt can't track down all the priests by simply showing up to 2 or 3 "Trad Centers" and getting an address list.  It would be better if such things weren't "centralized" (and that's the advantage of +W's "independent" approach). 
^^This^^  I’ve been saying this since 2012.  Many priests condemn +Bp. W., +Bp. Zendejas for their lack of organization and public outreach.  While it would be wonderful for right now if they had both opened a seminary and were ordaining hundreds of priests, I’ve withheld judgment based upon this very fact.  After the public priests have all been rounded up and martyred, those who fly under the radar may be all we’ve got.  Time will tell.