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Author Topic: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023  (Read 5980 times)

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Offline Meg

Re: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2023, 10:32:35 AM »
+Ballini kept his consecration quiet at the request of +Williamson for over a year.  So +B is not acting independent.  +W provided the Holy Orders for the seminarians in Ireland (with the exception of the recent ordination) so he is working closely with +B to build up the apostolate. 

What is the definition of an independent priest?  The Irish apostolate has 2 priests and they both live in the Priory with +Ballini.  Neither of them have their own source of support and are reliant on the apostolate for their daily needs.  Not exactly independent. Plus at least 5 other ADJM priests are in collaboration with +B.  Some Dominicans from France were in attendance at that ordination in January so +Faure is aware of the goings on in Ireland.  The real and true Irish persecution (which is docuмented in court records and the Irish press) destroys the false "Connecticut cristero" narrative bandied about for years. 

Since when does the US need to be consulted in European matters?  There is no cabal.  +Zendejas just isn't on the invites.

The "Resistance" is not a collegiate organization.  +Williamson doesn't need anyone's permission or approval. 


Thanks. From what it sounds like, it wasn't really a case of 'independence' after all with the situation in Ireland. 


Re: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2023, 12:01:05 PM »
Bishop Williamson did not choose independence but had it thrust on him. He cannot unbishop himself. He could not be considered indepent in the sense of the sermon.
Just as many of us shouldn’t be considered “Home Aloners.”  It was not our choice to abandoned by the source of Mass and Sacraments.  Not everyone can continually pull up stakes and relocate.  Most, in fact, cannot afford it.  


Offline TheRealMcCoy

  • Supporter
Re: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2023, 12:53:37 PM »
+Ballini kept his consecration quiet at the request of +Williamson for over a year.  So +B is not acting independent.  +W provided the Holy Orders for the seminarians in Ireland (with the exception of the recent ordination) so he is working closely with +B to build up the apostolate. 

What is the definition of an independent priest?  The Irish apostolate has 2 priests and they both live in the Priory with +Ballini.  Neither of them have their own source of support and are reliant on the apostolate for their daily needs.  Not exactly independent. Plus at least 5 other ADJM priests are in collaboration with +B.  Some Dominicans from France were in attendance at that ordination in January so +Faure is aware of the goings on in Ireland.  The real and true Irish persecution (which is docuмented in court records and the Irish press) destroys the false "Connecticut cristero" narrative bandied about for years. 

Since when does the US need to be consulted in European matters?  There is no cabal.  +Zendejas just isn't on the invites.

The "Resistance" is not a collegiate organization.  +Williamson doesn't need anyone's permission or approval. 


I meant to type SAJM....

Re: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2023, 05:17:47 PM »
Thanks for pointing out the problem with Bishop Z's communication. I hadn't really considered what he was saying in regard to the independent priest issue. May I ask....why is Bp. B forming and ordaining independent priests? I don't really have a problem with independent priests, but there must be a reason why Bp. B is doing so. Maybe it can be explained?

TheRealMcCoy mentioned the persecutions that Bp. B has been facing in Ireland (which is very real), but I don't understand how that fits into the reasoning of the need for independent priests. I'm not trying to be difficult; just wanting to understand the situation.
Why shouldn't he ordain independent priests? Where is it written that he has to?

We are not the ordinary jurisdiction of the Church, nor should we pretend to be.

No explaining necessary. If anything the default is for the priest to be independent. If he feels particularly lonely and wants to live in common with other priests, then that is what societies are for. But by default he should be on his own.

I don't understand RealMcCoys point either.

It was Bishop B who wanted things secret not BW.

There is also Fr. Bufe and Fr. Kramer in Ireland. Though the latter has not received conditional ordination.

The bottom line is that many clerics do not like independent priests because they can't control them. That lack of control terrifies them. So they feel they have to set up a parallel church to do that. Rather than accept the will of God for the situation we are in. They can't deal with their own insecurities. Clerics don't have to set up societies to be controlling btw. Insecure clerics exist among those independent. But that is for another discussion....



Offline Meg

Re: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2023, 05:36:23 PM »
Why shouldn't he ordain independent priests? Where is it written that he has to?

We are not the ordinary jurisdiction of the Church, nor should we pretend to be.

No explaining necessary. If anything the default is for the priest to be independent. If he feels particularly lonely and wants to live in common with other priests, then that is what societies are for. But by default he should be on his own.

I don't understand RealMcCoys point either.

It was Bishop B who wanted things secret not BW.

There is also Fr. Bufe and Fr. Kramer in Ireland. Though the latter has not received conditional ordination.

The bottom line is that many clerics do not like independent priests because they can't control them. That lack of control terrifies them. So they feel they have to set up a parallel church to do that. Rather than accept the will of God for the situation we are in. They can't deal with their own insecurities. Clerics don't have to set up societies to be controlling btw. Insecure clerics exist among those independent. But that is for another discussion....

I don't have a problem with independent traditional priests. There may come a time when we will need them. I was only trying to understand the situation.

Is Fr. Kramer associated with the Resistance in Ireland? Isn't Fr. Kramer a sedevacantist? Or am I wrong about that? Maybe that has something to do with +Z's concerns?