We need independent priests now. Now and always. To balance against the nonsense of the insecure clerics within societies.
Fr. Kramer is in the resistance yes. His bennyvacantism (maybe set up discussion in another thread about that) has nothing to do with Bishop Z's concern.
Most likely you will not fully understand Bishop Z's concern. Certainly not from a public forum. My guess is there is a lot more to this than meets the eye. It has been bubbling under the surface for quite a while now.
Bishop Z won't back down from this. Don't expect him to. People prefer societies and priests from them. Because it takes certain crosses away from their lives, most particularly the cross of the crises in the Church. This crises which forces us to be grown ups about our faith and religion. To take care of priests rather than be babysat by them. Also the cross of having to challenge clerics, or at least stand up to them when we know they're wrong. (should be done almost always in private). No one wants this, especially when we have so many other things to worry about in our secular lives. So people will opt for the "package option" of a society.
The clerics in that will feel good about themselves. But it is a hollow victory. Because all they will end up with are weak faithful like the SSPXers. If they push this idea too much that is. There is a certain place for it. But we shouldn't get dogmatic about it.
This is how Vatican II happened, it is how the SSPX crises happened, and it will probably be how the next crises will happen. The weak spot of Catholics for the last 500 years. The devil knows it, and is only delighted to take advantage of it.
I appreciate your explanation. The only reason for independent (vagus?) priests is because of the Crisis. If not for that, independent priests are not a good idea. I don't believe that's how the Church operates in normal times. But these are not normal times. One thing that can be a problem with independent priests is that the laity will be in charge of mass venues. Kind of reminds me of a now mostly defunct Protestant sect called the Congregationalists, who believed that the congregation should make all decisions of what was to be believed. That eventually became a big problem for them.
The Catholic Church, on the other hand, has always been hierarchical. It's likely, though, that a time will come, maybe very soon, where we'll have to keep mass venues a secret, and that might only be viable in independent laity-owned chapels (or homes or garages, etc.). Humility will be required, which is a problem for trads, but living in dangerous times in the future may teach humility. By then, we'll just be grateful for the sacraments, and will not squabble so much about smaller issues.
I'm sorry to see that Fr. Kramer is associated with the Resistance now. Maybe he has been for awhile. Is the Resistance in Ireland really so desperate that they need Fr. Kramer? He appears to believe that everyone is entitled to his opinion regarding the Pope, and he seems to have changed his mind about the Pope several times. I'm glad I don't live in Ireland.
Just my opinion, and might very well be wrong.
Topic: Resistance Ordinations March 4 2023 (Read 5956 times)