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Author Topic: Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX  (Read 3612 times)

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Offline Matthew

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I saw this on my Facebook wall today:

Quote
(Picture of two smiling men in cassock)

Fr. Picot and Br. June Mark
Marian Corps of Saint Pius X Society
visited my house..


The first comment on this post?

Quote
God bless the Society of Pius X



When your Resistance organization is so named, that people say "God bless the SSPX" when they hear about your organization -- we have a problem!

Of course, it's cheap enough to pray for and wish blessings on others. That's fine. But what if the hard work and edifying example of Resistance priests and brothers led ___ people to get out their checkbooks and write a check to the SSPX, or attend their chapels!

Seriously, this man sounds tempted to attend his local SSPX even if a Resistance chapel were the same distance away, because, "they're united anyhow so it doesn't make a difference", right?

The response of the 2nd man is bad because it expresses enthusiasm, edification, and an emotional/human hope in an organization that has (objectively speaking) hopelessly fallen. We can (and should) pray for anyone and wish them well -- and hold out supernatural hope for them. But this expression "God bless the Society of Pius X" doesn't express *supernatural* hope. It shows a genuine enthusiasm for the organization.



Now for my commentary:

I don't have anything against Fr. Chazal, or the two men who posted these things. They are just going with the flow -- that's what Fr. Chazal calls his group, after all!

But I think it's stupid. Real stupid.

Resistance sounds A) generic B) a bit negative  but at least it firmly expresses the divorce from the SSPX organization.

"SSPX Marian Corps" implies a unity or connection with the Neo-SSPX and in that respect the name utterly fails. Words are meant to convey ideas; they must convey meaning.

If words convey no meaning, they are useless. If they convey the OPPOSITE of reality, they are deceptive and harmful!

For example, I say "Traditional Catholic" which conveys a different meaning from "Catholic". The latter is usually a worldly Novus Ordo Catholic, ignorant about his Faith, often with a small family and often on birth control.

Traditional Catholic suggests attendance at a Tridentine Mass, a person who has left his local parish, and certain other things (better informed, not on birth control, gives up meat on Fridays, etc.)


Anyhow, I understand that they had to pick some name in the very beginning, and for a while they went with "SSPX-Strict Observance" or "SSPX- Marian Corps" but we need to give up on the idea of turning things around in the SSPX at this point.

Even Resistance fails in this respect: it doesn't give up on the SSPX. It implies we are a group within the SSPX that are resisting the new liberal direction, as well as the upcoming practical agreement with Rome. But it's a done deal, so we need to pick a new name and LEAVE the SSPX altogether!
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2016, 02:46:23 PM »
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  • I agree.  Especially since the sspx will likely have a new name once they're under rome.  

    How about the "P2V2" organization (prior 2 vatican 2)?  ha ha


    Offline Matthew

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #2 on: July 29, 2016, 02:52:41 PM »
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  • Allow me to express myself in a more organized manner.

    The name of our group (currently "the Resistance") should achieve 3 aims:

    1. Give us an identity (any name would fill this purpose), or a shorthand to refer to our position, our membership, our priests and bishops, etc.
    2. Express what we are and what we do (strict fidelity to +ABL, holding the old SSPX position, resisting the new liberal direction, against the practical accord with Rome)
    3. Express our complete independence from the SSPX. We are not associated with the SSPX in the slightest degree! We are 100% not in union with them. SSPX superiors have 0 control and 0 input within the movement.

    Now let's judge the various names applied to our Movement:


    "The Resistance"
    1 - Check. Although it's extremely generic. Every rebel movement (good and bad) is a "Resistance". Plenty of movies, books, and stories have a "Resistance" in them. In a Trad context, everyone knows what you mean, so "Resistance" gets a pass here, although it might be closer to 1/2 a pass or 3/4 of a pass.

    2 - Debatable. It's true we are resisting, but mostly in the context of the SSPX, which we need to put behind us. However, at least one clever priest framed it as "Resistance to Vatican II" which kind of works...

    3 - 1/2 a check - While our name doesn't have "SSPX" in it, and most people understand the Resistance is those who resist and rebel from the new orientation, left their SSPX chapels, etc., still the very name implies SSPX. If you google "Resistance" you won't get our group -- you pretty much have to say "SSPX Resistance".

    Then again, it's true that we came from the SSPX and hold the old SSPX position. So as long as we have a firm negative term like "Resistance" it can be used with "SSPX" and not confuse people into thinking we're associated with the current SSPX.


    SSPX Marian Corps
    1 - Check. Any name is identity, so this is a freebie.
    2 - Fail. It doesn't say what they are, OR what they do.
    3 - Fail. It implies they are part of the corrupted neo-SSPX. Not good.


    SSPX-SO (SSPX of the Strict Observance)
    1 - Check (any name is an identity)
    2 - Check - it implies they are staying faithful and strict, while most others are going lax and liberal.
    3 - Fail - Again, they imply an association with the "mainstream SSPX" which is simply not true.

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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #3 on: July 29, 2016, 02:56:33 PM »
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  • What chance is there that we could get the leaders to accept a new name?  I think there needs some 're branding' as you point out.

    Offline Matthew

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #4 on: July 29, 2016, 02:57:57 PM »
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  • Another problem with naming our organization -- we need a name that can apply to ANYONE who wants to join.

    In other words, if you leave your SSPX because you are against the new liberal orientation, you are free to call yourself Resistance. It's a free and open term, not trademarked or owned by anyone.

    It's not even an official group that you have to formally join (with or without a trial period or formal test), much less can anyone give you a warning, kick you out of the organization, etc.

    We do need a name like that. A generic term for our position.

    Now other smaller, official groups might be desirable as well -- for example, the Priestly Union of Marcel Lefebvre.

    Fr. Pfeiffer also has his own independent group in the larger Resistance, but he only "approves" your membership if you acknowledge his own headship. But following Fr. Pfeiffer's leadership isn't for everyone, let's be frank on that.
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    Offline Matto

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #5 on: July 29, 2016, 02:59:27 PM »
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  • What about the Union Sacerdotale Marcel Lefebvre?
    R.I.P.
    Please pray for the repose of my soul.

    Offline Sbyvl

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #6 on: July 29, 2016, 03:01:05 PM »
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  • Given your intention of getting beyond the SSPX, maybe you should go with "Meta-SSPX Express".
    I apologize for all rude, calumnious, uncharitable, and unchristian posts I have made, and I retract them.

    Offline Matthew

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #7 on: July 29, 2016, 03:03:55 PM »
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  • I don't think they're married to the term -- you can tell. Bishop Williamson still uses air quotes and/or he prefaces it with "so called" whenever he says Resistance. It's as if he's embarrassed or hesitant to use the term.

    I might have been partly responsible for everyone adopting that term. I know that one SSPX priest (I don't remember who, it might have been Fr. Rostand) talked about a "Resistance Movement" on the Internet. I remember he was describing a trip to CathInfo or something along those lines, and I remember thinking, "Hey, that's a whole different subforum!" It stuck in my head at the time.

    Here's the thing -- in 2006, the first subforum I created on CathInfo was for discussing cօռspιʀαcιҽs and such. I had to pick a name. I called it "The Resistance Movement". I think this subforum might have caused some influence and/or confusion, especially considering how central CathInfo was in the early days of the Resistance.

    I have since changed the name of that subforum to "Fighting Errors in the Modern World" -- but by then, it might have been too late.
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    Offline Sbyvl

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #8 on: July 29, 2016, 03:13:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sbyvl
    Given your intention of getting beyond the SSPX, maybe you should go with "Meta-SSPX Express".


    Look!  I even have a logo for you.
    I apologize for all rude, calumnious, uncharitable, and unchristian posts I have made, and I retract them.

    Offline Matthew

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #9 on: July 29, 2016, 03:26:34 PM »
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  • Let me add something else:

    I've been in the Resistance for over 4 years now. In the beginning, we didn't know what form it would take, or what would happen.

    As far as we knew, we were a "Resistance" within the SSPX, a group of individuals who all rejected the apparent new liberal orientation in the SSPX, and the push to make a practical accord with unconverted, Modernist Rome.

    We hoped to turn things around, get enough priests and Faithful to leave, and make a difference on the SSPX as a whole. That's why we didn't commit ourselves to a new, separate organization. We weren't necessarily interested in that -- we only wanted to be a MOVEMENT of conservatism, fidelity, strict observance, and resistance to the new orientation. We quickly picked a name that gave us (worldwide) an identity, a shorthand for the reality we represented.

    But today in 2016 it's much different. Both sides have dug in. All the priests who were going to leave have already left. Ditto for the Faithful in the pews. Everyone has a strong belief now, pro or con. There will be no reconciliation with +Williamson and all the priests of the Resistance. Note that +W has been thrown under the bus several MORE times since he left! The Neo-SSPX are committed to his continued absence.

    Moreover, there will be no "conversion" of the neo-SSPX back to the SSPX of old. Too many priests agree with +Fellay and Fr. Pfluger. There are too many liberals in the SSPX, and they have firm control. Humanly speaking, there is NO HOPE. Only a miracle -- only God -- could turn it around. So our only hope is supernatural, not human/natural.

    So doesn't that mean it's time to give up and move on?
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    Offline Centroamerica

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #10 on: July 29, 2016, 07:14:20 PM »
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  • The argument could be that members of the SSPX are perpetual members, and so, for example, the unjust expulsion of Bishop Faure from the SSPX is without legitimacy and he continues to be a member of the SSPX. So when people say "God bless the SSPX", I see nothing offensive about it.
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline Benzel

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #11 on: July 29, 2016, 10:02:27 PM »
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  • Everyone calls our group or movement "the Resistance".
    That can not be changed.
    And it's not a bad name, because we resist against the liberalism and the modernism.
    But as the word "resistance" is generic, we can be more precise, and speak of "Catholic Resistance"

    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #12 on: July 30, 2016, 12:46:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew (Jul 29, 2016, 3:39 pm)
    I saw this on my Facebook wall today:

    Quote from: Picture of two smiling men in cassock
    Marian Corps of Saint Pius X Society visited my house.

    The first comment on this post?

    Quote
    God bless the Society of Pius X


    I can imagine another response, albeit not written: "Marian Corps?   I wonder what the Corps does.  Hmmm.  Maybe they're the people in SSPX who're responsible for organizing the SSPX "Rosary Crusades".  That would make sense.  Sure!  That's probably it!"

    Quote from: Matthew (Jul 29, 2016, 3:39 pm)
    When your Resistance organization is so named that people say "God bless the SSPX" when they hear about your organization -- we have a problem!  [....] But what if the hard work and edifying example of Resistance priests and brothers led ___ people to get out their checkbooks and write a check to the SSPX, or attend their chapels!

    What if it led an admiring person to write a check to "Saint Pius X Marian Corps", and lacking an address, decided to drop it into an SSPX collection basket, on the guess that "someone at the SSPX chapel will know how to get that check to the Marian Corps--I'm sure it'll get to them soon enough".  What could possibly go wrong?  Buuuzzz!

    Quote from: Matthew (Jul 29, 2016, 3:39 pm)
    "SSPX Marian Corps" implies a unity or connection with the Neo-SSPX and in that respect the name utterly fails.

    And it fails more crucially, the less an onlooker knows about SSPX.

    Quote from: Matthew (Jul 29, 2016, 3:39 pm)
    Words are meant to convey ideas; they must convey meaning.  If words convey no meaning, they are useless. If they convey the opposite of reality, they are deceptive and harmful!

    Important considerations, which arise not only when naming organizations or alliances, but also when naming publications or Web sites.

    Offline Wessex

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #13 on: July 30, 2016, 02:18:46 AM »
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  • The passage of time will once again clear the mind of unrealistic attachments and reveal the hard facts. The rather vague and sloppy idea of a traditional movement at war with modern Rome and the world has tended to pacify generations of disgruntled Catholics and given them hope that one day things will turn around. The truth is there is no unity among the aggrieved and what leaders there are display their insularity and even boast of their impotence. Resistance has become a personal internal matter rather than a flag of campaign. And dissenters are now looking like bands of unruly deserters looking for a way back to any home that gives them some security. Waterloo has come and gone.  

    Offline Franciscan Solitary

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    Resistance not the best name - but sure beats Marian Corps of SSPX
    « Reply #14 on: July 30, 2016, 03:24:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    The passage of time will once again clear the mind of unrealistic attachments and reveal the hard facts. The rather vague and sloppy idea of a traditional movement at war with modern Rome and the world has tended to pacify generations of disgruntled Catholics and given them hope that one day things will turn around. The truth is there is no unity among the aggrieved and what leaders there are display their insularity and even boast of their impotence. Resistance has become a personal internal matter rather than a flag of campaign. And dissenters are now looking like bands of unruly deserters looking for a way back to any home that gives them some security. Waterloo has come and gone.  

    After Waterloo came the Napoleonic Legend and then the triumph of everything the Emperor stood for.  Perhaps we should call the Resistance by its actual name:  Pan-European Catholic Nationalism.  Catholic Rome fell to the Red Barbarians in 1944, then came some years of relative peace and the Apocalypse, the mystic death of Christianity and civilisation.  Catholic laymen who can't serve Christ the King with a rosary in one hand and a sword in the other aren't worth saving, and most likely won't be.  The "dissenters" who look like unruly bands of deserters are the lukewarm, those whom Our Lord despises most.  

    They are not finding security; God is spitting them out into Everlasting Darkness.  May we not be found among them.