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Offline Cantarella

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Resistance and Sedevacantism
« on: April 30, 2014, 11:56:44 PM »
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  • From:

    http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2014/04/27/resistance-and-sedevancism/



    Resistance and Sedevacantism

    Apr 27, 2014


    The Resistance has been accused by the SSPX of leading their supporters to Sedevacantism.

    There is a fairly new variation that is infecting some French priests who leave the SSPX. They take the position called ”non una cum”, and, although they do not consider themselves to be Sedevacantist, they do not pray for the Pope in the Canon of the Mass. This is a contradiction in terms.

    They have many supporters in France and, it appears, in Quebec. Due to their numbers, they present an attractive option to wearied, battle-scarred priests who leave the SSPX and wonder where they will get their next meal.

    Since the goal of the Resistance is to stick to the proper Catholic Teaching, as passed on by Archbishop Lefebvre, we have to reject the “non una cum” position. When a priest offers to say Mass for us, we have to be clear on where he stands on this issue. If he gets this point wrong, then what are the odds that he accepts fully the rest of the proper Catholic Teaching?

    Attached is a document sent by the Quebec Resistance which addresses this problem. We fully support the position outlined in this document and invite all to read it. The first part of the document is in French, the English translation follows.

    The practical implication is that although Sedevacantists are welcome to come to our Mass, provided they remain polite about their views, we cannot welcome Sedevacantist (or “non una cum”) priests to say Mass for us.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #1 on: May 01, 2014, 12:01:27 AM »
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  • Cited document in English:

    "
    Charter of the Society of Christ the King

    Catholic faithful resolved to keep the faith in these times of apostasy, schisms and heresies, we renew the Profession of Faith of the Council of Trent and Vatican I.

    We support the 1910 Anti-Modernist Oath of Saint Pius X and the declaration of His Excellency Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre of November 21st 1974. We believe that one of the main duties of a Catholic is to defend his faith.

    We are committed to working for the Social Kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ under the protection of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Queen of Heaven and Earth, Mother of God and Mediatrix of all graces.

    We commit ourselves to fight against Modernism, sewer of all heresies.

    We dissociate ourselves from Sedevacanstism in all its forms, including the Cassiciacum thesis and the « non-unacum » position.

    Accordingly, we commit ourselves to support authentically Catholic Bishops that maintain the position of Archbishop Lefebvre pertaining to the crisis of the Church and especially concerning the recognition of the Pope. We also commit ourselves to support the priests who submit themselves to these bishops. We place ourselves under the supplied jurisdiction of these bishops and priests, appealing to the extraordinary circumstances provided for by Canon Law and the extreme necessity in which the souls of the faithful find themselves.

    As for the faithful who wish to participate in the organization of activities of the Society of Christ the King, we believe it essential for them to be in perfect agreement with the present charter.

    Long live Christ the King !
    The Society of Christ the King
    Lévis , Québec, Sunday in Albis, April 27th 2014
    Signatures

    "
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.


    Offline Centroamerica

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #2 on: May 01, 2014, 09:07:11 AM »
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  • Sedevacantists are not the enemy, the IBP and other ED groups are not the enemy. There is an antichrist seated on the sede of Pedro and no body does anything about it. We should be fighting to recuperate Eternal Rome into Catholic hands, not worried about sedevacantists or St. Peter Fraternity as this good resistance priests says so well.......
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Cantarella

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 11:31:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: Centroamerica
    Sedevacantists are not the enemy


    This is true. Modernism is.
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Centroamerica

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    « Reply #4 on: May 01, 2014, 11:44:33 AM »
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  • I attend Mass with a resistance priest who does not say the name in the canon and also does not consider himself a sede vacantist. Mons. Williamson addressed the "non una cum" position recently. I believe many priests who are taking this position are troubled by Bergoglio and have many doubts about the identity of the pope. I believe the most troubling part of the non una cum is that unity is what is at stake. The 9 left over non una cum issues and there could be more breaks in associations of priests over this issue. It can tend to divide the laity as well as some will begin to look into and think more on these crucial issues and favor some priests over others as I had been doing up until Mons. Williamson spoke recently on the issue. There is a definite danger to unity which will harm the resistance movement certainly. The English speaking world seems to be more conscious of this than say Latin America or France given the history.

    Still, I would say that the clergy and bishop(s) should begin to discuss this more amongst themselves in light of the current papal claimant. Also, if a priest in Argentina did not use Bergoglio's name in the canon due to his anti-Catholic actions, after the election of Bergoglio as pope it can be understood why a priest can find this hard to accept......
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...


    Offline untitled

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 12:36:40 PM »
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  • This text is interesting:

    "Mass Una Cum: Bishop Guérard des Lauriers used to say that "to cite John Paul II at the Te Igitur of the Holy Mass is to commit, objectively and ineluctably, the double crime of sacrilege and capital schism." On the contrary, the expression Una Cum in the Canon of the Mass does not mean that one affirms that he is 'in communion' with the erroneous opinions of the pope, but rather that one wants to pray for the Church 'and for' the pope, her visible head. In order to be sure of this interpretation, let us report the rubric of the missal for the occasion of a bishop celebrating Mass. In this case, the bishop must pray for the Church "Una cum… me indigno famulo tuo", which does not mean that he prays 'in communion with… myself, your unworthy servant' (which doesn't make sense!), but that he prays 'and for… myself, your unworthy servant.' (...) "

    http://fsspx.com/Communicantes/Dec2004/Is_That_Chair_Vacant.htm

    Offline Ecclesia Militans

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #6 on: May 01, 2014, 02:57:21 PM »
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  • The Our Lady of Good Success Mission will not host "non una cum" priests.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 03:08:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: Centroamerica
    The 9 left over non una cum issues and there could be more breaks in associations of priests over this issue.


    I'm not completely sure but I do not think this is accurate.  Those priests weren't even sede at that point.
    If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent


    Offline Wessex

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 05:00:49 PM »
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  • If the resistance is surprisingly pushing una cum Masses, it will lose support. It will also be adopting a  precarious position. Bp. W could meet his eternal reward tomorrow, forcing resistance priests to move closer to SVism or use their bishops. ABL sought the assisance of Bp. "there is no pope" de Castro Mayer when consecrating bishops, so why make things hard? In any case, so many trad priests see it as a personal matter.

    Offline Centroamerica

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #9 on: May 01, 2014, 05:20:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Centroamerica
    The 9 left over non una cum issues and there could be more breaks in associations of priests over this issue.


    I'm not completely sure but I do not think this is accurate.  Those priests weren't even sede at that point.


    It is cited in Wikipedia so I assumed it to be accurate. If anyone has different info I am all ears (or rather eyes). see the space in white regarding the nine
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Stella

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #10 on: May 01, 2014, 05:20:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Centroamerica
    The 9 left over non una cum issues and there could be more breaks in associations of priests over this issue.


    I'm not completely sure but I do not think this is accurate.  Those priests weren't even sede at that point.


    I can't vouch for what their positions were in 1983, but the letter of the Nine to Archbishop Lefebvre is well worth a read, as is dispels some of the disinformation about the nature of their grievances. The letter is here, and can be summarized in the main points:

    1. The Seminary
    2. Doubtful priests
    3. Liturgical changes
    4. Dismissal of priests
    5. Magisterial authority
    6. Loyalty
    7. Annulments
    "We must dig deeply in Christ. He is like a rich mine with many pockets containing treasures: however deep we dig we will never find their end or their limit. Indeed, in every pocket new seams of fresh riches are discovered on all sides." St. John of the Cross


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #11 on: May 01, 2014, 05:57:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    From:

    http://www.ecclesiamilitans.com/2014/04/27/resistance-and-sedevancism/



    Resistance and Sedevacantism

    Apr 27, 2014


    The Resistance has been accused by the SSPX of leading their supporters to Sedevacantism.

    There is a fairly new variation that is infecting some French priests who leave the SSPX. They take the position called ”non una cum”, and, although they do not consider themselves to be Sedevacantist, they do not pray for the Pope in the Canon of the Mass. This is a contradiction in terms.

    They have many supporters in France and, it appears, in Quebec. Due to their numbers, they present an attractive option to wearied, battle-scarred priests who leave the SSPX and wonder where they will get their next meal.

    Since the goal of the Resistance is to stick to the proper Catholic Teaching, as passed on by Archbishop Lefebvre, we have to reject the “non una cum” position. When a priest offers to say Mass for us, we have to be clear on where he stands on this issue. If he gets this point wrong, then what are the odds that he accepts fully the rest of the proper Catholic Teaching?

    Attached is a document sent by the Quebec Resistance which addresses this problem. We fully support the position outlined in this document and invite all to read it. The first part of the document is in French, the English translation follows.

    The practical implication is that although Sedevacantists are welcome to come to our Mass, provided they remain polite about their views, we cannot welcome Sedevacantist (or “non una cum”) priests to say Mass for us.



    Bravo :applause:
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline Marlelar

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 06:16:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Centroamerica
    The 9 left over non una cum issues and there could be more breaks in associations of priests over this issue.


    I'm not completely sure but I do not think this is accurate.  Those priests weren't even sede at that point.


    Letter from "The 9" explaining their position.

    link

    Marsha

    Offline Unbrandable

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    Resistance and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #13 on: May 01, 2014, 07:10:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    If the resistance is surprisingly pushing una cum Masses, it will lose support.



    Here is what a Resistance priest sent to the Quebec Resistance group after hearing about the problem in Quebec:

    "Even if there is a minority left that is faithful to the positions of Archbishop Lefebvre, it is better to have that, than a false union based on equivocation."




    Offline SeanJohnson

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    « Reply #14 on: May 01, 2014, 07:25:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: Unbrandable
    Quote from: Wessex
    If the resistance is surprisingly pushing una cum Masses, it will lose support.



    Here is what a Resistance priest sent to the Quebec Resistance group after hearing about the problem in Quebec:

    "Even if there is a minority left that is faithful to the positions of Archbishop Lefebvre, it is better to have that, than a false union based on equivocation."





    Who is the priest, and what is his position?
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


     

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