Author Topic: Remember how bad the Indult can be (Read 2875 times)

Matthew · « **on:** August 01, 2015, 12:35:29 PM »

A few days ago, on a Facebook group about the Tridentine Mass, Latin Mass Catholics or some such, someone made a complaint or comment something along these lines. I have this in quotes, but it's not exact since I unfortunately forgot to save it off, and now I can't find it!

"ugh. Some priests saying the Indult really get on my nerves. Low Mass dragged on for 1 hour and 45 minutes. The priest was clueless during many parts of it. The whole thing was less professional than a dress rehearsal."

So when we talk about the Indult, we really need to distinguish between "Masses approved by Rome" and "Massed approved by Rome and said by properly trained priests, such as ICK and FSSP"

Just like independent chapels are a complete grab bag, so are Diocesan-approved (Indult) Tridentine Masses. It completely depends on what kind of priest they found to say Mass there.

Matto · « **Reply #1 on:** August 01, 2015, 01:58:53 PM »

In my experience with the indult, the priests who said Mass was competent and knew how to say the Mass. And the choir sung well. This was at St. Agnes in NYC. The sermons were not as good as SSPX sermons but other than that the Masses were fine. And of course it was a sung Mass and not a low Mass. Everyone received communion kneeling on the tongue, though they did use hosts consecrated in the Novus Ordo as well as hosts consecrated in the indult Mass.

songbird · « **Reply #2 on:** August 01, 2015, 04:15:33 PM »

Since when does the Novus Ordo "consecrate hosts?! No such thing! They don't know the meaning of the word.

Matto · « **Reply #3 on:** August 01, 2015, 04:19:08 PM »

Quote from: songbird

Since when does the Novus Ordo "consecrate hosts?! No such thing! They don't know the meaning of the word.

Good catch.

JPaul · « **Reply #4 on:** August 01, 2015, 07:50:49 PM »

The indult, whether performed properly or not, has the same element of doubt upon it as the Novus Ordo, as most of the priests are ordained within, and by the conciliar structure, and there can be no certainty about which is and which is not valid.

It also exists under the conciliar proposition that the Novus Ordo is also a Mass, legitimate, and of a superior rank. Also proposing that the two can share the altars and tabernacles, a heinous idea.

Diocesan masses are not really an option to Catholics who seek to avoid cohabitation with the new religion.

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #5 on:** August 01, 2015, 09:21:26 PM »

I would say, generally speaking, a priest who even bothers to learn the Tridentine would say said Mass more conscientiously, carefully and competently than a priest who did not. Since they do not have to learn it, at all, any priest endeavoring to learn the TLM would be doing it out of a love for the Rite.

poche · « **Reply #6 on:** August 03, 2015, 11:45:52 PM »

Quote from: songbird

Since when does the Novus Ordo "consecrate hosts?! No such thing! They don't know the meaning of the word.

According to the SSPX, when a priest of the Novus Ordo wants to join them their ordinations are recognized as valid. therefore, when teh priest says the TLM, his mass is valid. Besides, Bishop Williamson said that going to the Novus Ordo is ok sometimes.

poche · « **Reply #7 on:** August 03, 2015, 11:47:26 PM »

When Padre Pio was newly ordained, his masses lasted around four hours.

JPaul · « **Reply #8 on:** August 04, 2015, 08:59:25 AM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: songbird
Since when does the Novus Ordo "consecrate hosts?! No such thing! They don't know the meaning of the word.

According to the SSPX, when a priest of the Novus Ordo wants to join them their ordinations are recognized as valid. therefore, when teh priest says the TLM, his mass is valid. Besides, Bishop Williamson said that going to the Novus Ordo is ok sometimes.

The SSPX is wrong, as they have no certainty as to which priest is valid and which is not without proper investigation. Validity of a given priest and his mass has nothing to do with what the SSPX accepts.

The Bishop would be wrong, if that is what he said.

trento · « **Reply #9 on:** August 04, 2015, 11:35:21 AM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: songbird
Since when does the Novus Ordo "consecrate hosts?! No such thing! They don't know the meaning of the word.

According to the SSPX, when a priest of the Novus Ordo wants to join them their ordinations are recognized as valid. therefore, when teh priest says the TLM, his mass is valid. Besides, Bishop Williamson said that going to the Novus Ordo is ok sometimes.

Not for all cases. Many from the Novus Ordo will receive conditional ordination.

songbird · « **Reply #10 on:** August 04, 2015, 12:22:40 PM »

Sounds like a Game Play!

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #11 on:** August 04, 2015, 12:56:17 PM »

Quote from: poche

When Padre Pio was newly ordained, his masses lasted around four hours.

Poche,

Do you have any citations to back this up? Any first hand accounts?

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #12 on:** August 04, 2015, 12:57:51 PM »

Quote from: trento

Quote from: poche
Quote from: songbird
Since when does the Novus Ordo "consecrate hosts?! No such thing! They don't know the meaning of the word.

According to the SSPX, when a priest of the Novus Ordo wants to join them their ordinations are recognized as valid. therefore, when teh priest says the TLM, his mass is valid. Besides, Bishop Williamson said that going to the Novus Ordo is ok sometimes.

Not for all cases. Many from the Novus Ordo will receive conditional ordination.

I would imagine a Novus Ordite presider who comes to see that he is part of a falsehood or betrayal would not only seek out the SSPX but insist on being conditionally ordained.

OHCA · « **Reply #13 on:** August 04, 2015, 01:16:50 PM »

What Matthew said in his OP was precisely my experience with indult "masses." Also, the two priests whose indults I remember attending who were old enough to have been priests before the NO was inflicted upon Christendom acted the most put out to be offering the TLM and sped through it like a race.

These were simply diocesan TLMs--I've never attended FSSP or Christ the King TLMs. But it was a mixed bag of incompetent giddiness and old farts feeling like they were being imposed upon. For the former, "dress-rehearsal" is precisely how I have described it before.

poche · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2015, 11:45:50 PM »

Quote from: Capt McQuigg

Quote from: poche
When Padre Pio was newly ordained, his masses lasted around four hours.

Poche,

Do you have any citations to back this up? Any first hand accounts?

I don't have any citations which have internet liens, however what I heard was that Padre Pio when he was newly ordained when he first was assigned to a parish and was scheduled for the weekday masses would take around four hours to say mass. The people complained to his superior and the superior ordered Padre Pio under holy obedience to say the weekday low mass in 1/2 an hour. The next day when it was his turn to say the weekday low mass he went out and said the mass in 1/2 an hour. This was given as an example of his practice of obedience.